EPT[MLG] Summer Championships 2012 - Page 95
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Highwayman
United States181 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
For me its all about if the teams were still trying to win or not. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1079 Posts
On August 27 2012 10:52 Mohdoo wrote: I'm sorry. I understand if mods want to remove the link. The level of stupidity can be compared to shock sites. Imagine a competitive scene without competition, where there isn't pride in accomplishment or desire to push yourself to win. That's what was happening in these games. Whether an individual incident ruins the scene or not, it destroys credibility and the sanctity of the event. Competitive purity is essential or else it all falls apart. Wait - but that's not what happened. If they agreed to split prize money - that has nothing to do with "pride" or "desire to push yourself." Unless you're saying that you're so materialistic you wouldn't be motivated to do anything unless someone paid you. Which is like - not what you should say man! Edit: Like seriously do some meditation or something if you think that! For the sake of your health buddy ^_^ | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 27 2012 10:56 I_Love_Bacon wrote: The tournament isn't about proving the best at lower levels of play. It's generally more about having fun. You split because you and the other finalist both had fun and winning isn't a huge deal but you'd like to guarantee yourself a bigger payday compared to if you lose. You both are happy with the arrangement. It doesn't cost anybody anything because there usually aren't spectators outside of friends and people who have been eliminated. What the people in emerging eSports in particular have to realize is that people have paid to see the finals they're fucking around in. Their sponsors have paid for them to put on a good show and win. I guess if they want to run their tournaments that way, it is their choice. I would label them as amateur or casual tournaments, since they are there to have fun. I think some tournaments cater to more serious players and now allow splitting. Riot and MLG feel that way and feel tournaments are where you determine who is best. If people from that more casual scene are shocked by this, they might not want to take part in MLG. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:06 Arghmyliver wrote: Wait - but that's not what happened. If they agreed to split prize money - that has nothing to do with "pride" or "desire to push yourself." Unless you're saying that you're so materialistic you wouldn't be motivated to do anything unless someone paid you. Which is like - not what you should say man! Edit: Like seriously do some meditation or something if you think that! For the sake of your health buddy ^_^ how does it not have anything to do with pride/competitive desire when they fixed the outcome ahead of time? if you are ensured some % of the grand prize why bother to play well? | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:06 Slaughter wrote: I want to know if in their planning they had a predetermined winner set up. If yes then the punishment is just. If however, both teams were still trying to win (albeit while also "not trying tryhard") even if they were going to pool winnings afterword then the punishment is unjust as they were not manipulating anything, just holding back their true stuff. imo For me its all about if the teams were still trying to win or not. That's usually what "collusion" implies, brother. Splitting the pot can't really be punished. Hell, it's done in poker all the time when it gets down to the final table. They agree to a chop pot and end the game, it even got so popular online that mods stayed active during the final tables in order to pause the game, come to an agreement, end it and then distribute the funds properly. | ||
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SimulatedAnneal
765 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:06 Slaughter wrote: I want to know if in their planning they had a predetermined winner set up. If yes then the punishment is just. If however, both teams were still trying to win (albeit while also "not trying tryhard") even if they were going to pool winnings afterword then the punishment is unjust as they were not manipulating anything, just holding back their true stuff. imo For me its all about if the teams were still trying to win or not. I think the punishment is fine given that MLG apparently has prize splitting rules and a history of being against it. If they had a decided winner then the hammer needs to come down from Riot and all 10 of them should be done in competitive League. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1079 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:06 Slaughter wrote: I want to know if in their planning they had a predetermined winner set up. If yes then the punishment is just. If however, both teams were still trying to win (albeit while also "not trying tryhard") even if they were going to pool winnings afterword then the punishment is unjust as they were not manipulating anything, just holding back their true stuff. imo For me its all about if the teams were still trying to win or not. This. If they had a predetermined winner then that's match-fixing. If they had a fun different format planned - more power to them. I can't see how a game with 140+ kills wouldn't be entertaining. I hardly think they "let the fans down." | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:06 Slaughter wrote: I want to know if in their planning they had a predetermined winner set up. If yes then the punishment is just. If however, both teams were still trying to win (albeit while also "not trying tryhard") even if they were going to pool winnings afterword then the punishment is unjust as they were not manipulating anything, just holding back their true stuff. imo For me its all about if the teams were still trying to win or not. Pretty much this. Even if they both "threw" the first game it doesn't mean they predetermined the winner, which as far as I am concerned is the only way it makes it a scandal. Its not like they went Saviour and created a gambling ring and fixed the results of the matches... they held back strategies for a more important tournament. That happens all the time in so many sports its silly. I guess the Heat should be disqualified when they inevitably start all their bench warmers during the last game of the regular season, amirite? | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:08 Plansix wrote: I guess if they want to run their tournaments that way, it is their choice. I would label them as amateur or casual tournaments, since they are there to have fun. I think some tournaments cater to more serious players and now allow splitting. Riot and MLG feel that way and feel tournaments are where you determine who is best. If people from that more casual scene are shocked by this, they might not want to take part in MLG. No shit. I'm not saying there should be splitting at MLG or any major tournament. My statement hasn't changed. It's the idea that many people have from playing in these lesser tournaments. Spectators are few and not as important so splitting is common. On the big stage, it is clearly taboo and some people haven't gotten it through their skulls. Hopefuly this will be a wake up to the LoL community that this shit wont be tolerated... especially if Riot has more shit to say before all is said and done. | ||
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Celestial
United States652 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:06 Arghmyliver wrote: Wait - but that's not what happened. If they agreed to split prize money - that has nothing to do with "pride" or "desire to push yourself." Unless you're saying that you're so materialistic you wouldn't be motivated to do anything unless someone paid you. Which is like - not what you should say man! Edit: Like seriously do some meditation or something if you think that! For the sake of your health buddy ^_^ Curse's apology video quite clearly contradicts any attempt of them being professional about their own finals. That's the huge problem I have and removes any sense of pride they have their game. Splitting the money to me feels like you just don't want to take a risk towards the prize and go 50/50 with it while not trying your hardest because now there's no pressure to try. It cheapens the experience for me. | ||
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Yttrasil
Sweden651 Posts
On August 27 2012 10:56 Kouda wrote: At the end of the day, its going to blow over. Unless MLG and Riot proceed to punish them even more. We saw some really good games, had some mistakes, w/e. This is very true, and it is also why I really hope they don't go further than this. The reputation and money the teams lost is enough, and legally basing it on the rule MLG differ to might be very difficult to defend if it ever goes further. As of now both teams need to do their best to maintain their reputation and their good graces with Riot. Edit: Also, having salaries will be a step against this kind of behaviour, as now the sport won't be as volotile. It sucks to have the pressure and risk of losing/winning alot of money on one game which may mean you will be able to play for another year or have a difficult future. Disproportionate price pools are very problematic in sports where some teams might be struggling when they want more stability. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:11 I_Love_Bacon wrote: No shit. I'm not saying there should be splitting at MLG or any major tournament. My statement hasn't changed. It's the idea that many people have from playing in these lesser tournaments. Spectators are few and not as important so splitting is common. On the big stage, it is clearly taboo and some people haven't gotten it through their skulls. Hopefuly this will be a wake up to the LoL community that this shit wont be tolerated... especially if Riot has more shit to say before all is said and done. I Prize splitting should be to the discretion of the players if they want to do some kind of revenue sharing thing. That being said it would only be acceptable if they both still tried to win. There should only be a problem if one team was throwing. | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
Sincerly hope that both dignitas and curse gets banned from both S2 and all future MLG events. I know that MLG has done it before. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1079 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:09 Frolossus wrote: how does it not have anything to do with pride/competitive desire when they fixed the outcome ahead of time? if you are ensured some % of the grand prize why bother to play well? To win? Because you place value in things besides money? Like even abstract ideas like pride and the spirit of competition? Because you understand that "you can't take it with you"? Like seriously - when you die AFAIK the earthly movement of small enumerated paper bits would seem rather trivial? I haven't seen anything that says they planned the outcome of the games - if they did that's obviously uncool. Neither let the other win. What they do with the prize money would seem their prerogative whether they decide before they win or not? | ||
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gyth
657 Posts
1. ARAM - playing a show-match on MLGs dime. Obviously guilty. Current "punishment" is appropriate. 2. Prize-splitting - wrong and anti-competitive, but something that can be overlooked in the long run. 3. Match-throwing - If they decided the winner to help Digs first round, then both need more severe punishment. | ||
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Craton
United States17299 Posts
Last I heard it was at some kind of food establishment where it was discussed. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1079 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:14 Senx wrote: Quote from MLG Adam: The collusion was planned and discussed in a public, crowded setting. The entire venue was aware of it. Not happy to be in this position. Sincerly hope that both dignitas and curse gets banned from both S2 and all future MLG events. I know that MLG has done it before. Why do you hope that? It obviously wasn't malicious - in fact - they seemed to be motivated by the idea of bringing more enjoyment to the fans - hence the ARAM. | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
@ChaosCrazed Witnesses and the teams confirmed when confronted. I don't think Adam Apicella is just spewing out random BS.. | ||
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Highwayman
United States181 Posts
On August 27 2012 11:10 Dosey wrote: That's usually what "collusion" implies, brother. Splitting the pot can't really be punished. Hell, it's done in poker all the time when it gets down to the final table. They agree to a chop pot and end the game, it even got so popular online that mods stayed active during the final tables in order to pause the game, come to an agreement, end it and then distribute the funds properly. That's not a spectator situation and I fail to realize how you don't see the difference. MLG and Riot's product depends on the competitive nature of the tournaments. If fans were to know that they were watching a game that was going to be split so the outcome didn't matter they wouldn't watch and that is direct damage to MLG and Riot's product. Get it? A chop in a poker tournament is usually based on chip count and it's agreed on by the tournament organizers. MLG's rules specifically prohibit it. Both teams might have a financial incentive to limit their risk, but the tournament does not. How is that hard to understand? | ||
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