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On August 27 2012 10:12 Vaporized wrote:
i dont understand why they would agree to split the money and play arams.
saying 'they didnt want to show their strats for next week' is insane. they could have just played standard champ comps and gone at it. they didnt have to make a mockery of the event like they did.
curse and dig are my 2 favorite teams and its really quite disappointing they thought this was a good idea.
Funny they use that excuse when SC2 players that play in GSL up/downs in a few days are here competing their hearts out and revealing builds left and right to win MLG. (either those builds are just standard and used so they can hide their strats or using it to show opponents they have a bigger tool box to work with and expect) It's called take some time and go think of new alternate strats to use either in MLG or another tournament so shit like this never happens.
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On August 27 2012 10:37 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:36 nojitosunrise wrote:
Anyone have the possible NA regional seeding if this result went through as planned (Crs over DIg)?
There's a rumor going around...I want to see if it could be possible. No. Dignitas and Curse pre-MLG were 860 and 515 Points respectively. 1st place gets 400, second place gets 200. So no matter who won, would not have changed seeding in that respect. Just Prize Money. The only difference is that a win for Dignitas allows them to surpass CLG by about 100 Points and move to Second Seed. But they both stay on the opposite side of the bracket from Curse and TSM. So yeah. No big difference there either. Only changes Round 1 matches since Dignitas and CLG will still face off in Round 2 if they advance from Round 1.
If dig didn't want to face a certain team in the lower seeds, it was well within their power to "throw" so they could face an easier team in their first match.
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On August 27 2012 10:40 nojitosunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:37 HPoirot wrote:On August 27 2012 10:36 nojitosunrise wrote:
Anyone have the possible NA regional seeding if this result went through as planned (Crs over DIg)?
There's a rumor going around...I want to see if it could be possible. Posted this earlier: TSM, CLG, DIG, Curse, EVO, Dynamic, Legion, MMe If Dig wins: TSM, DIG, CLG, Curse, EVO, Dynamic, Legion, MMe The rumor was that Dig threw so they wouldn't have to face Legion in NA qualifiers. Seems like that it might be plausible. (It doesn't help that casters were commenting consistently about Dig's problems against Legion).
Swapping Seeds with CLG means CLG faces Team Dynamic and Dignitas face Team Legion. As it stands, Dignitas will now face Team Dynamic and CLG face Team Legion. Not like it's a big upgrade either way.
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On August 27 2012 10:34 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:31 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 10:29 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
I'm surprised that shits like this still happens after the Savior scandal. Are the players simply ignorant of it or do they honestly believed that they could get away with it? It's a gaming culture thing. A loooot of smaller tournaments have splitting occur on a daily/weekly basis. I'm not just talking about the LoL scene. Every competitive scene I've been a part of had splitting that was really common. People just have to understand that they're not just athletes anymore; they're also entertainers. That means putting on a legitimate show for their fans and paying customers on/offline regardless of whether they really care about the match they're about to participate in. It's not just gaming culture... It's anything with decent money. Ever hear of Men Nguyen and his "poker teams"? The Russian pros? Hell, I was involved in some mild collusion with my "team" as well and I'm sure plenty of other college kids are/were.
In this very thread I talked about other scandals. I'll specify: The eSport's scene hasn't figured it out yet, whereas other sports have gotten a better handle on it. People are used to being able to split but now aren't allowed to.
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On August 27 2012 10:41 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:37 HPoirot wrote:On August 27 2012 10:36 nojitosunrise wrote:
Anyone have the possible NA regional seeding if this result went through as planned (Crs over DIg)?
There's a rumor going around...I want to see if it could be possible. Posted this earlier: TSM, CLG, DIG, Curse, EVO, Dynamic, Legion, MMe If Dig wins: TSM, DIG, CLG, Curse, EVO, Dynamic, Legion, MMe Thanks for this. So MME beat ORB?
Yes.
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A lot of people are saying that this tournament didn't really matter and that's part of the reason why they didn't take it seriously. This is what blows my mind though: this was a golden opportunity for one of these two teams to gain a huge amount of prestige for winning a major tournament, which would probably be worth more than the prize money in the end (more people watching their streams, traffic to their websites and potentially sponsors). They tossed all of that and really trashed their brand for what? To have a bit of fun (the ARAM) and maybe to not try so hard for a few grand (the prize splitting)? Such a dumb decision.
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People really like Scarra.
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On August 27 2012 10:41 nojitosunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:37 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On August 27 2012 10:36 nojitosunrise wrote:
Anyone have the possible NA regional seeding if this result went through as planned (Crs over DIg)?
There's a rumor going around...I want to see if it could be possible. No. Dignitas and Curse pre-MLG were 860 and 515 Points respectively. 1st place gets 400, second place gets 200. So no matter who won, would not have changed seeding in that respect. Just Prize Money. The only difference is that a win for Dignitas allows them to surpass CLG by about 100 Points and move to Second Seed. But they both stay on the opposite side of the bracket from Curse and TSM. So yeah. No big difference there either. Only changes Round 1 matches since Dignitas and CLG will still face off in Round 2 if they advance from Round 1. If dig didn't want to face a certain team in the lower seeds, it was well within their power to "throw" so they could face an easier team in their first match.
I would argue that this is a flaw with the structure of Riot's circuit(and other tournaments where this happens, Olympic badminton, anyone?). If losing in a small tournament provides an advantage in the most important tournament ever, why the hell would you win? From a spirit of the game perspective, it's absolutely horrible, but for purely competitive reasons it is the right choice.
Dignitas actually was at risk of losing their 3rd seed if they stayed home, but that would have given them the softest matchup possible(Evo), so let's assume Dig management forced them to go.
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On August 27 2012 10:42 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:40 nojitosunrise wrote:On August 27 2012 10:37 HPoirot wrote:On August 27 2012 10:36 nojitosunrise wrote:
Anyone have the possible NA regional seeding if this result went through as planned (Crs over DIg)?
There's a rumor going around...I want to see if it could be possible. Posted this earlier: TSM, CLG, DIG, Curse, EVO, Dynamic, Legion, MMe If Dig wins: TSM, DIG, CLG, Curse, EVO, Dynamic, Legion, MMe The rumor was that Dig threw so they wouldn't have to face Legion in NA qualifiers. Seems like that it might be plausible. (It doesn't help that casters were commenting consistently about Dig's problems against Legion). Swapping Seeds with CLG means CLG faces Team Dynamic and Dignitas face Team Legion. As it stands, Dignitas will now face Team Dynamic and CLG face Team Legion. Not like it's a big upgrade either way.
Except Dig had a ton of problems against Legion no?
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On August 27 2012 10:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:34 Dosey wrote:On August 27 2012 10:31 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 10:29 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
I'm surprised that shits like this still happens after the Savior scandal. Are the players simply ignorant of it or do they honestly believed that they could get away with it? It's a gaming culture thing. A loooot of smaller tournaments have splitting occur on a daily/weekly basis. I'm not just talking about the LoL scene. Every competitive scene I've been a part of had splitting that was really common. People just have to understand that they're not just athletes anymore; they're also entertainers. That means putting on a legitimate show for their fans and paying customers on/offline regardless of whether they really care about the match they're about to participate in. It's not just gaming culture... It's anything with decent money. Ever hear of Men Nguyen and his "poker teams"? The Russian pros? Hell, I was involved in some mild collusion with my "team" as well and I'm sure plenty of other college kids are/were. In this very thread I talked about other scandals. I'll specify: The eSport's scene hasn't figured it out yet, whereas other sports have gotten a better handle on it. People are used to being able to split but now aren't allowed to.
They should never be allowed to, even in smaller tournaments. Anything that calls into question if they played their hardest cheapens the tournament. It is a bad practice if smaller tournaments allow it, because opens the door for prize splitting on all levels. Maybe the top four teams should split the prize money and work hard to knock out all the other teams. More money for all, right?
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On August 27 2012 10:37 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:27 nojitosunrise wrote:On August 27 2012 10:23 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 10:21 nojitosunrise wrote:On August 27 2012 10:19 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 10:16 Celestial wrote:On August 27 2012 10:07 nojitosunrise wrote:
You know what really bothers me when individuals get caught match fixing/prize splitting?
What is stopping them from doing this is other tournaments? If they are willing to do it for one tournament, why won't they do it for bigger tournaments?
With millions and millions of dollars on the line in season 2 and 3....I am very very skeptical about the "integrity" of future LoL matches.
It's a possibility that Savior and other players have shown before. Honestly the players have to keep the spirit of the competition on their minds and do the right thing, but before Season 3 even starts we have this stupid mess. The fact it even happened is now up to MLG/Riot to decide if they need to set an example for their future. It's just something stupid they've done and I frankly won't follow Dig/Curse in their future tournaments, because they gave up their chance at first place and didn't show their spirit to win legitimately It's not only eSports. There was the big scandal involving pro tennis a couple of years ago too. Collusion and match fixing can happen almost anywhere. The only thing you can hope to do is have harsh enough penalties to dissuade people from doing it and instill enough pride in the competitors to always give it their best.edit: Also, that thread on the LoL forums that was linked is the dumbest shit I've ever read. Holy fuck, now I know why people think elo hell exists. There is no way the penalties MLG handed were enough. Do you think 0$, no points, and the public shaming wont be bad? Do you think their managers wont absolutely tear into their assholes for making them look like shit and embarrassing their sponsors? I personally would have no problem with further punishments that could include either a % of purse being taken if they place at nationals or complete removal from nationals. It would weaken the tournament, but would send a huuuuge message. If riot banned an Elohell member from playing in a tournament because he got tribunal banned, they are going to unleash a shit storm at Dig and Crs for this incident. If Riot does not, I can't see how I can take any tournament that Dig and Crs is participating in seriously anymore. Wow, that's an over reaction. Dig and Crs's motives were entirely clear, they cared more about S2 finals than this tournament. It's completely ridiculous to over generalize what occurred here. Would they pull this kind of stuff at regionals or s2 finals? hell no. Maybe they fucked up, but its not their fault that there wasn't enough incentive at this competition, or rather, there was enough incentive not to play 100% (Far more important to have every edge they can going into regionals and s2 finals).
Can you realistically say 100% that no one would do this at regionals or finals if they could at any future events? The integrety of big events like those are built upon from the smaller tournaments and I can tell you all the teams this weekend fighting for 7/8th place seeding fought their hardest.
Any edge they could've saved for the regionals are now hampered by the negative publicity they received and the feelings of guilt and disappointment. Even if you say it might not affect them, I'd find that hard to believe since it's only a week off and everyone looks to be on their cases now.
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On August 27 2012 10:46 HPoirot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:41 nojitosunrise wrote:On August 27 2012 10:37 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On August 27 2012 10:36 nojitosunrise wrote:
Anyone have the possible NA regional seeding if this result went through as planned (Crs over DIg)?
There's a rumor going around...I want to see if it could be possible. No. Dignitas and Curse pre-MLG were 860 and 515 Points respectively. 1st place gets 400, second place gets 200. So no matter who won, would not have changed seeding in that respect. Just Prize Money. The only difference is that a win for Dignitas allows them to surpass CLG by about 100 Points and move to Second Seed. But they both stay on the opposite side of the bracket from Curse and TSM. So yeah. No big difference there either. Only changes Round 1 matches since Dignitas and CLG will still face off in Round 2 if they advance from Round 1. If dig didn't want to face a certain team in the lower seeds, it was well within their power to "throw" so they could face an easier team in their first match. I would argue that this is a flaw with the structure of Riot's circuit(and other tournaments where this happens, Olympic badminton, anyone?). If losing in a small tournament provides an advantage in the most important tournament ever, why the hell would you win? Dignitas actually was at risk of losing their 3rd seed if they stayed home, but that would have given them the softest matchup possible(Evo), so let's assume Dig management forced them to go.
Why did Dignitas even go then hm? Their choice. I'm sure Odee would have been understanding if Scarra told him they wanted to rest. Can't imagine him forcing them to do.
Since Curse were going and could potentially overtake Dignitas for 3rd Seed, Dignitas likely want to go to defend that. By keeping 3rd seed, they avoid TSM in the other half of the bracket and likely face CLG in the semifinals and they probably feel more confident against CLG than TSM. Dignitas has a poor record against TSM and a fairly even one against CLG.
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And yet they made an apology video and Riot has come out and said both teams admitted to it.
lol.
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On August 27 2012 10:37 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:27 nojitosunrise wrote:On August 27 2012 10:23 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 10:21 nojitosunrise wrote:On August 27 2012 10:19 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 10:16 Celestial wrote:On August 27 2012 10:07 nojitosunrise wrote:
You know what really bothers me when individuals get caught match fixing/prize splitting?
What is stopping them from doing this is other tournaments? If they are willing to do it for one tournament, why won't they do it for bigger tournaments?
With millions and millions of dollars on the line in season 2 and 3....I am very very skeptical about the "integrity" of future LoL matches.
It's a possibility that Savior and other players have shown before. Honestly the players have to keep the spirit of the competition on their minds and do the right thing, but before Season 3 even starts we have this stupid mess. The fact it even happened is now up to MLG/Riot to decide if they need to set an example for their future. It's just something stupid they've done and I frankly won't follow Dig/Curse in their future tournaments, because they gave up their chance at first place and didn't show their spirit to win legitimately It's not only eSports. There was the big scandal involving pro tennis a couple of years ago too. Collusion and match fixing can happen almost anywhere. The only thing you can hope to do is have harsh enough penalties to dissuade people from doing it and instill enough pride in the competitors to always give it their best.edit: Also, that thread on the LoL forums that was linked is the dumbest shit I've ever read. Holy fuck, now I know why people think elo hell exists. There is no way the penalties MLG handed were enough. Do you think 0$, no points, and the public shaming wont be bad? Do you think their managers wont absolutely tear into their assholes for making them look like shit and embarrassing their sponsors? I personally would have no problem with further punishments that could include either a % of purse being taken if they place at nationals or complete removal from nationals. It would weaken the tournament, but would send a huuuuge message. If riot banned an Elohell member from playing in a tournament because he got tribunal banned, they are going to unleash a shit storm at Dig and Crs for this incident. If Riot does not, I can't see how I can take any tournament that Dig and Crs is participating in seriously anymore. Wow, that's an over reaction. Dig and Crs's motives were entirely clear, they cared more about S2 finals than this tournament. It's completely ridiculous to over generalize what occurred here. Would they pull this kind of stuff at regionals or s2 finals? hell no. Maybe they fucked up, but its not their fault that there wasn't enough incentive at this competition, or rather, there was enough incentive not to play 100% (Far more important to have every edge they can going into regionals and s2 finals).
Yeah Imean 20k dollars here and there don't really matter to progamers, they're some of the wealthiest people on the planet. It actually makes more sense for them to rig matches and share prize money with their competition.
Pride, loyalty and sportsmanship just don't belong in esports to be honest. ONLY play at 100% for a ridiclously disproportoniate prize pool put on by one of the wealthiest gaming companies on the planet.
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On August 27 2012 10:48 Craton wrote:And yet they just apologized and Riot has come out and said both teams admitted to it. lol.
Yea according to tweets from some members of MLG. We really shouldn't say anything until there's an official statement.
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On August 27 2012 10:37 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 10:27 nojitosunrise wrote:On August 27 2012 10:23 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 10:21 nojitosunrise wrote:On August 27 2012 10:19 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On August 27 2012 10:16 Celestial wrote:On August 27 2012 10:07 nojitosunrise wrote:
You know what really bothers me when individuals get caught match fixing/prize splitting?
What is stopping them from doing this is other tournaments? If they are willing to do it for one tournament, why won't they do it for bigger tournaments?
With millions and millions of dollars on the line in season 2 and 3....I am very very skeptical about the "integrity" of future LoL matches.
It's a possibility that Savior and other players have shown before. Honestly the players have to keep the spirit of the competition on their minds and do the right thing, but before Season 3 even starts we have this stupid mess. The fact it even happened is now up to MLG/Riot to decide if they need to set an example for their future. It's just something stupid they've done and I frankly won't follow Dig/Curse in their future tournaments, because they gave up their chance at first place and didn't show their spirit to win legitimately It's not only eSports. There was the big scandal involving pro tennis a couple of years ago too. Collusion and match fixing can happen almost anywhere. The only thing you can hope to do is have harsh enough penalties to dissuade people from doing it and instill enough pride in the competitors to always give it their best.edit: Also, that thread on the LoL forums that was linked is the dumbest shit I've ever read. Holy fuck, now I know why people think elo hell exists. There is no way the penalties MLG handed were enough. Do you think 0$, no points, and the public shaming wont be bad? Do you think their managers wont absolutely tear into their assholes for making them look like shit and embarrassing their sponsors? I personally would have no problem with further punishments that could include either a % of purse being taken if they place at nationals or complete removal from nationals. It would weaken the tournament, but would send a huuuuge message. If riot banned an Elohell member from playing in a tournament because he got tribunal banned, they are going to unleash a shit storm at Dig and Crs for this incident. If Riot does not, I can't see how I can take any tournament that Dig and Crs is participating in seriously anymore. Wow, that's an over reaction. Dig and Crs's motives were entirely clear, they cared more about S2 finals than this tournament. It's completely ridiculous to over generalize what occurred here. Would they pull this kind of stuff at regionals or s2 finals? hell no. Maybe they fucked up, but its not their fault that there wasn't enough incentive at this competition, or rather, there was enough incentive not to play 100% (Far more important to have every edge they can going into regionals and s2 finals).
This is kind of what I was getting at earlier. It's stupid what those two teams did and MLG made the right decision.
But it's not like there was any "spirit of the competition" in the first place. The two best NA teams didn't even bother showing up. The outcome of the Curse/Dig match didn't even matter.
Both teams should still be ashamed of themselves but this tournament was basically just for the money for Crs/Dig anyways.
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Of course they didn't. Curse gave no shits if they won or lost. They accomplished their goal: protect the 4th seed and the juicy Evo matchup.
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EPT
