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At any point of IEM Season 6 Championship, if you think of an interesting byline, please drop a sentence in the Pro Scene thread. At the end of the month, I'll catalogue the results of Hannover but also any interesting facts or events that happen over the course of the tournament. Thanks. Neo, 06.03.2012 |
United States47024 Posts
On March 11 2012 02:06 overt wrote:
I think 3-3 ban phase, 3-3 pick phase, 2-2 ban, 2-2 pick would work fine in LoL at the professional level. But in casual play that would mean you'd need to have 20 champions available to you in order to play draft or ranked. They could always just have like "tournament draft" and "regular draft" though.
Personally I think having draft mode in pub play is pretty pointless to begin with.
What's the point of drafting if your team doesn't have any coordination?
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On March 11 2012 02:07 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 02:06 overt wrote:
I think 3-3 ban phase, 3-3 pick phase, 2-2 ban, 2-2 pick would work fine in LoL at the professional level. But in casual play that would mean you'd need to have 20 champions available to you in order to play draft or ranked. They could always just have like "tournament draft" and "regular draft" though. Personally I think having draft mode in pub play is pretty pointless to begin with. What's the point of drafting if your team doesn't have any coordination?
I always felt like the biggest reason for that was so you could ban the "omg op champs."
I kind of wish we didn't have blind draft though. Would be way better if we could just see what both teams were picking in non-draft mode so that you don't end up against a team comp that yours has no hope of defeating 'cause of blind draft. It's just normals so I guess it doesn't even matter but still.
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I never understood why LoL has blind picking. I mean I haven't played a whole lot only around 30 games so am I just missing something?
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On March 11 2012 02:06 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 02:01 TheYango wrote:On March 11 2012 01:54 daemir wrote:
So I took a sauna after and collected my thoughts and then dispersed them again, but here's some ranting
First off some people have suggested you simply outban Diamond from the jungle. This isn't possible. Can you outban SV from jungle? No, he plays too many too well. You can't do it with 3 bans + 1st pick. You can ban lee, shyv,GP, he has at least udyr and noc to pick just from recent popular junglers. You 1st pick udyr coz it makes more sense and then he has noc. M5 might then complement it with ashe, shen or TF, terror ganks.
So what if you had more than 3 bans, let's say 4 or 5? Well you still couldn't, no more you could SV. But then I got to thinking what's the ramification for 4 ban (let alone 5ban) system and the biggest thing that dawned for me was bot lane, more specifically, supports.
imagine: ban taric, sona, janna, alistair. 1st pick leona. Uh oh. they'd have soraka and nunu left from what is nowadays considered as support. I don't see either of them faring well against a leona kill lane. Can't really increase ban # untill we have more champions viable for 0 cs support. Or maybe I'm wrong and the game would shift to banning out strong supports and some unconventional ones would have to crop up to counter it. Could Lux, Orianna, even Morgana get a go at being viable? If they added 4th or 5th ban, then they should be added as a 2nd ban phase. There are enough bans in the first 3 to ban the "OP" champs or someone's favorite champ. The problem is that during the first ban phase, nobody is actually committed to any team comp or champion selection. So it's hard to ban "strategically" because what can you do when nobody is actually committed to anything? Second ban phase after, say, the first 3 picks on each team allows you to prevent the enemy from making picks based on what you know about their teamcomp from their early picks, without disrupting your own picks. Practically speaking, if we got to the point where people were actually good at more of the champs in the roles they played (and not just like 3-4 champs like most top laners), then the first ban phase would actually be fairly boring--it's the second ban phase that's actually interesting. I think 3-3 ban phase, 3-3 pick phase, 2-2 ban, 2-2 pick would work fine in LoL at the professional level. But in casual play that would mean you'd need to have 20 champions available to you in order to play draft or ranked. They could always just have like "tournament draft" and "regular draft" though.
I think it actually hurts a bit when people don't play draft solely because they don't have enough champions. The number of free champions every week really should have enough to support draft mode. More people playing the "competitive" mode might make the game better.
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at least 2 ban phase would be necessary imho...
right now we get same champs banned/picked again and again
basically any team can easily predict what their opponent gonna ban and play, and its also extremely easy to prepare which team comp you u gonna play.
more ban phases would probably fix this.
tldr: right now its very hard to strategically counter your opponent by banning champions.
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On March 11 2012 01:44 Shikyo wrote:
Lane dynamics... It was Nautilus vs Irelia. You don't "lane well" if you just are even in farm without doing anything to deny the Irelia because she's about a hundred times stronger in the lategame.
I'd really argue that its not possible to "lane well" by your definition when you spend the first 10 minutes+ in fear of a sinstar gank, and the rest being behind on all lanes getting messed with by half/full team roam.
And then Shen... well. Shen.
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On March 11 2012 02:13 Numy wrote:
I never understood why LoL has blind picking. I mean I haven't played a whole lot only around 30 games so am I just missing something?
Back when LoL first started there were only like 8 champions free at a time so you couldn't have made a whole team out of them
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qqdlt/fans_chanting_hotshot/
By the way I love trolling this thread
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I see but these days in pubs you can have the same hero on both sides correct? So it's just a relic of the past?
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Did we reach 300k viewers?
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On March 11 2012 02:17 Numy wrote:
I see but these days in pubs you can have the same hero on both sides correct? So it's just a relic of the past?
You can only have the same hero on both sides in blind pick, where you can queue from 1-5 people to be matched with others.
No visible ranking is established there.
There also is a non-ranked draft pick/ban with same queue mechanics, and the ranked games where you queue with 1-2 people for 5v5s draft pick/ban and of course the full team ranked draft pick/ban.
If a hero is picked in draft, it is not available for the other team anymore.
While blind pick in general is hilariously dumb at times, mirror matches are fun. Rule of thumb: you ALWAYS get the one that feeds his mirror :p
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On March 11 2012 02:25 epoc wrote:
Did we reach 300k viewers?
don't think so
262k I think
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yeah we got close 
IEM needs better schedules, however being at tradeshows is limiting that severly.
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On March 11 2012 01:54 daemir wrote:
So I took a sauna after and collected my thoughts and then dispersed them again, but here's some ranting
First off some people have suggested you simply outban Diamond from the jungle. This isn't possible. Can you outban SV from jungle? No, he plays too many too well. You can't do it with 3 bans + 1st pick. You can ban lee, shyv,GP, he has at least udyr and noc to pick just from recent popular junglers. You 1st pick udyr coz it makes more sense and then he has noc. M5 might then complement it with ashe, shen or TF, terror ganks.
So what if you had more than 3 bans, let's say 4 or 5? Well you still couldn't, no more you could SV. But then I got to thinking what's the ramification for 4 ban (let alone 5ban) system and the biggest thing that dawned for me was bot lane, more specifically, supports.
imagine: ban taric, sona, janna, alistair. 1st pick leona. Uh oh. they'd have soraka and nunu left from what is nowadays considered as support. I don't see either of them faring well against a leona kill lane. Can't really increase ban # untill we have more champions viable for 0 cs support. Or maybe I'm wrong and the game would shift to banning out strong supports and some unconventional ones would have to crop up to counter it. Could Lux, Orianna, even Morgana get a go at being viable?
I think it a big way it comes down to the way that the meta in lol works. Its a lot more fixed then dota by being bruiser top, bruiser jungle, ap mid, ad/support bot.
While there are a lot of options for the first 3 You could easily ban out 90% of the choises for botlane with 5 bans and first pick and with the reliance on AD carries lategame it would really screw with the game.
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On March 11 2012 02:45 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 01:54 daemir wrote:
So I took a sauna after and collected my thoughts and then dispersed them again, but here's some ranting
First off some people have suggested you simply outban Diamond from the jungle. This isn't possible. Can you outban SV from jungle? No, he plays too many too well. You can't do it with 3 bans + 1st pick. You can ban lee, shyv,GP, he has at least udyr and noc to pick just from recent popular junglers. You 1st pick udyr coz it makes more sense and then he has noc. M5 might then complement it with ashe, shen or TF, terror ganks.
So what if you had more than 3 bans, let's say 4 or 5? Well you still couldn't, no more you could SV. But then I got to thinking what's the ramification for 4 ban (let alone 5ban) system and the biggest thing that dawned for me was bot lane, more specifically, supports.
imagine: ban taric, sona, janna, alistair. 1st pick leona. Uh oh. they'd have soraka and nunu left from what is nowadays considered as support. I don't see either of them faring well against a leona kill lane. Can't really increase ban # untill we have more champions viable for 0 cs support. Or maybe I'm wrong and the game would shift to banning out strong supports and some unconventional ones would have to crop up to counter it. Could Lux, Orianna, even Morgana get a go at being viable? I think it a big way it comes down to the way that the meta in lol works. Its a lot more fixed then dota by being bruiser top, bruiser jungle, ap mid, ad/support bot. While there are a lot of options for the first 3 You could easily ban out 90% of the choises for botlane with 5 bans and first pick and with the reliance on AD carries lategame it would really screw with the game.
Which is why everyone is suggesting a second banning phase similar to DOTA.
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On March 11 2012 03:07 StUfF wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 02:45 Gorsameth wrote:On March 11 2012 01:54 daemir wrote:
So I took a sauna after and collected my thoughts and then dispersed them again, but here's some ranting
First off some people have suggested you simply outban Diamond from the jungle. This isn't possible. Can you outban SV from jungle? No, he plays too many too well. You can't do it with 3 bans + 1st pick. You can ban lee, shyv,GP, he has at least udyr and noc to pick just from recent popular junglers. You 1st pick udyr coz it makes more sense and then he has noc. M5 might then complement it with ashe, shen or TF, terror ganks.
So what if you had more than 3 bans, let's say 4 or 5? Well you still couldn't, no more you could SV. But then I got to thinking what's the ramification for 4 ban (let alone 5ban) system and the biggest thing that dawned for me was bot lane, more specifically, supports.
imagine: ban taric, sona, janna, alistair. 1st pick leona. Uh oh. they'd have soraka and nunu left from what is nowadays considered as support. I don't see either of them faring well against a leona kill lane. Can't really increase ban # untill we have more champions viable for 0 cs support. Or maybe I'm wrong and the game would shift to banning out strong supports and some unconventional ones would have to crop up to counter it. Could Lux, Orianna, even Morgana get a go at being viable? I think it a big way it comes down to the way that the meta in lol works. Its a lot more fixed then dota by being bruiser top, bruiser jungle, ap mid, ad/support bot. While there are a lot of options for the first 3 You could easily ban out 90% of the choises for botlane with 5 bans and first pick and with the reliance on AD carries lategame it would really screw with the game. Which is why everyone is suggesting a second banning phase similar to DOTA.
It's the best system I've seen. Something about reinventing the wheel I guess.
Either way, compare DotA2 5 bans per team 70 heroes vs like 94 champions and 3 bans
On March 11 2012 02:45 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 01:54 daemir wrote:
So I took a sauna after and collected my thoughts and then dispersed them again, but here's some ranting
First off some people have suggested you simply outban Diamond from the jungle. This isn't possible. Can you outban SV from jungle? No, he plays too many too well. You can't do it with 3 bans + 1st pick. You can ban lee, shyv,GP, he has at least udyr and noc to pick just from recent popular junglers. You 1st pick udyr coz it makes more sense and then he has noc. M5 might then complement it with ashe, shen or TF, terror ganks.
So what if you had more than 3 bans, let's say 4 or 5? Well you still couldn't, no more you could SV. But then I got to thinking what's the ramification for 4 ban (let alone 5ban) system and the biggest thing that dawned for me was bot lane, more specifically, supports.
imagine: ban taric, sona, janna, alistair. 1st pick leona. Uh oh. they'd have soraka and nunu left from what is nowadays considered as support. I don't see either of them faring well against a leona kill lane. Can't really increase ban # untill we have more champions viable for 0 cs support. Or maybe I'm wrong and the game would shift to banning out strong supports and some unconventional ones would have to crop up to counter it. Could Lux, Orianna, even Morgana get a go at being viable? I think it a big way it comes down to the way that the meta in lol works. Its a lot more fixed then dota by being bruiser top, bruiser jungle, ap mid, ad/support bot. While there are a lot of options for the first 3 You could easily ban out 90% of the choises for botlane with 5 bans and first pick and with the reliance on AD carries lategame it would really screw with the game.
What about smart counterpicks? Wukong + Janna vs AD support and have like Corki solo top?
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Diamond also plays a good mundo, skarner and maokai, from the new jungle junglers, basically you can't ban every jungle diamonds the least likely guy to outban from m5.
(Has a good xin and trnudle but they aren't that relevant anymore)
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Dunno if trying to shit on HotShot and getting downvoted into oblivion for being an asshole is worthy of bragging but apparently so... Alright.
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Anyone know when the next rebroadcast of the finals will start?
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On March 11 2012 01:46 overt wrote:
I think for Dignitas to be a contender against M5 and other top teams they've gotta improve on a few points.
Hmm. Hopefully, with your advice, Dignitas can one day be a contender against other top teams.
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EPT
