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Lunko
Slovenia72 Posts
Another mistake was that they allways blew janna ulti on Galios ulti, not on kenen ulti On a side note : Anybody knows what will happen to SK.LoL Team if they dont win the IEM China, since all the players were rly worried on the stream before the event, but didnt wanna share info about it | ||
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SK aBhorsen
United Kingdom47 Posts
On October 04 2011 21:58 Lunko wrote: 3rd Game SK vs CLG : Amumu was probably the worse pick of them all, combined with AP janna concidering the opponents team composition. It ended up being that the only treath to CLG was Kogmaw, which is why they used everything on him, after kogmaw died, the fight was won. Another mistake was that they allways blew janna ulti on Galios ulti, not on kenen ulti On a side note : Anybody knows what will happen to SK.LoL Team if they dont win the IEM China, since all the players were rly worried on the stream before the event, but didnt wanna share info about it Lunko we were not worried about losing we were worried about getting there. The day before they were due to fly we found out Candy didn't have his passport/visa. Amumu was a fine pick, you cannot play Kogmaw without the protecting of AOE disables in that regard Sona/Janna were also perfectly viable choices against the CLG setup but i agree AP Janna just doesn't do enough as an AP caster to be the correct choice in that match. Gragas would have been a better choice but unfortunately he is not one of Ocelote's strongest champs imo. Perhaps we should have put Nyph on Janna but the AOE stun of Sona is godly too. Fiddlesticks may have been an interesting mid choice too. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
Cho'Gath top ??? GET TO MY COCKMAW SUCKERS | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On October 04 2011 21:58 Lunko wrote: On a side note : Anybody knows what will happen to SK.LoL Team if they dont win the IEM China, since all the players were rly worried on the stream before the event, but didnt wanna share info about it I don't think SK has much to be ashamed of, they played well and lost to the likely winner of this tournament. I don't like the AP Janna decision at all though, but what do I know? | ||
Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
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chocolatebunny
301 Posts
On October 04 2011 22:35 Beyonder wrote: Isnt oce so limited with his hero preferences though. He also kind of seems to lack overview of what is going on (slow player) hm. oce is arguably the best ap carry in eu or even the world, so he actually does know what he's doing  when he's doing well. he's scary to watch.he plays very strong ap's but i doubt he played ap janna. i know wickd does and so that's what maybe influenced their decision. AFAIK he and nyph make the picks for SK too so. idk >.< | ||
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BlueFlames
Germany1756 Posts
On October 04 2011 22:35 Beyonder wrote: Isnt oce so limited with his hero preferences though. He also kind of seems to lack overview of what is going on (slow player) I would say that most of the sk players are very limited with their hero preferences and they are very slow to adapt to anything, but the current standard. Add to that the bad chemistry between Ocelote and Wickd and you know why CLG is regarded the much better TEAM. And no Ocelote is normally not slow, but if things arent going perfect, he tends to tilt and pull his team down with him, getting tunnelvision and looking like someone with lack of overview. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On October 04 2011 22:45 chocolatebunny wrote: hm. oce is arguably the best ap carry in eu or even the world, so he actually does know what he's doing when he's doing well. he's scary to watch.he plays very strong ap's but i doubt he played ap janna. i know wickd does and so that's what maybe influenced their decision. AFAIK he and nyph make the picks for SK too so. idk >.< Lol of course Oce played AP Janna before. Quite succcesful as well, for example in a tournament game against fnatic. Strange idea that he would start with that in an important tournament game. Apart from that I dont understand most of the posts here talking about bad team spirit or whatever. Its not like CLG is so incredibly bad that loosing to them means something is fundamentally wrong with you lol. People are always into such incredible hyperboles after every win or loss. Its part of a competitive a game, sometimes you win, somethimes you lose. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
On October 04 2011 22:45 chocolatebunny wrote: hm. oce is arguably the best ap carry in eu or even the world, so he actually does know what he's doing when he's doing well. he's scary to watch.he plays very strong ap's but i doubt he played ap janna. i know wickd does and so that's what maybe influenced their decision. AFAIK he and nyph make the picks for SK too so. idk >.< Tbh the whole of SK was pretty limited in their champion picks. Snoopeh with amumu, Nyph with Sona, Wickd with Irelia, Oce with Cass/Akali/Anivia. Candypanda does luckily play all AD carries comfortably, though is again most known for Cait play. If you then take a look at CLG, where creative use of champions is dominated by Saint (inventor of jungle gp?), Hotshot who is fairly rigid but still plays a lot of champions, Jiji who has a near endless list of champions played in tourneys (plays both AP and AD roles), etc. SK gets too easily outbanned imho. They need more diversity. | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
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Flicky
England2669 Posts
On October 04 2011 22:45 chocolatebunny wrote: hm. oce is arguably the best ap carry in eu or even the world, so he actually does know what he's I've read things like this a lot about European players but most of the time I just don't see it. I hear it a lot with Candy Panda as well where people say they're the best players and so on but I've never seen many examples of them doing well, especially in tournament games they often seem outclassed on their lanes. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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SK aBhorsen
United Kingdom47 Posts
As for versatility, Wickd has been guilty of being strong with a limited amount before (which is why his Irelia is so strong.) Ocelote can play a wide variety of AP carries, he wasn't pushed onto Janna, he chose to play her (and his has plenty of times before). Snoopeh can jungle with anyone, to say he isn't versatile is incorrect, hell he went Jungle Blitz even! The choice for Amumu was to no doubt counter the AOE of CLG and to help Kog rape face. Kog dies if he get touched, Sona and Amumu enable Kog to destroy. (when it goes to plan). Candy/Nyph, although not perfect they are very very good. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
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NIIINO
Slovakia1320 Posts
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toastymow
United States254 Posts
CLG's problem is they have no true leader/captain, but when things go wrong they play fine, they don't have a morale problem the way SK does. Believe me, Wickd and Oce rely to much on their mood to play well in these events. Its dumb. I knew the second I saw Oce raging because his Akali pick not working he was done for and that SK didn't have a chance. About AP Janna: Meh, I don't know much about this hero, but I've been told by a few people that its a good pick. The problem is that Chauster plays Sivir (in fact I think all of CLG plays Sivir) and CLG is very loose about their lane setup these days. They default to standard meta, but are more than willing to run roamers/tank 2v1 bottom, etc. I don't think that's very common in EU. I can't wait for the Finals. Gonna be an amazing series. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
though I have to agree that if we're looking for a teams that have a great selection of champs they're able to competetively field, the US is ahead by leaps and bounds in teams like CLG, TSM and Dignitas. Saint for example has pretty much taken any hero through the jungle. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On October 05 2011 00:36 toastymow wrote: I can't wait for the Finals. Gonna be an amazing series. I really hope so. If nothing else CLG has shown how adaptable they are, and how well prepared. I hope WE can show the same. I will be sad if it's 2-3 one-sided games. I mean, just from watching Sivir vs Janna it's obvious that Sivir is a great pick, but how many of us can say we are confident last picking Sivir to beat Janna in lane given that lineup? (This means they see that Janna pick and think "we need a team that can run Sivir just in case".) I don't like the individual players on CLG, but I can't deny their skills and practice. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
On October 04 2011 20:08 DanielZKlein wrote: Have the theory crafters of TL found an answer that SK could have had for the triple AoE ultimate initiate from CLG? Support janna and Morg. The whole aoe chain worked because they could easily catch someone and then just dogpile them. This usually came in the form of GP's ult to slow and then galio E > Flash+R to follow up, which morg can largely circumvent. Janna needs to knock back Kennen when he ults (she kept wasting it on Galio). AoE comp is all about blowing something up NOW. If they fail, they're pretty weak for the rest of the fight. Double shield is really good for dealing with this. Alistar also very effective, as he can tank the damage w/ ult while punting away kennen and stopping the enemy team from getting in position during GP ult via Pulv. I'm a bit surprised CLG ran Taric instead of Sona in an aoe comp. Sona fits every part of that comp better, from the haste to get all the aoe in position to an aoe stun to stack with all the other aoe damage/cc. Alistar would've worked for this pretty well, too, and he could've played the roam game even better than Taric. I don't think Amumu was a good Jungle pick against it. You can hold them in place, but who cares? You can't engage on them in the ult because you need to kite against the aoe spam. It worked OKAY for countering their aoes by preventing them from getting close for a bit, but it was kind of meh. I'm also not a fan of having both Amumu and Janna on the same team, since their ults work in opposite ways. It's possible to use both effectively, but it's pretty awkward and requires some luck to get the fight to go the way you need it to (if enemy team initiates, amumu wants to counter initiate with ult, but Janna wants to fling someone off the carry, which wastes the Amumu ult. If Amumu initiates, Janna will struggle to get into a position that will do anything but fling a single person away or be have it solely as a heal, which are both things other supports can do better). SK in general didn't seem to have been following CLG very well. They banned out Cho and Nid and should've known that his next go to champ is Galio (he's used it a LOT) and that CLG has done a number of AoE comps based around Galio (w/ ori, fiddle, kennen and occasionally morg). Knowing ori was banned and fiddle was out of favor, it's a straight shot to CLG grabbing kennen to go with galio (it's almost as if I predicted it during champ select, hmmmmmm...). So, they should've known what CLG was going to do from the start. Early game Janna can't last hit under the tower because she has an awful attack animation The animation isn't too bad, but she requires 2 hits + tower hit(s) to kill anything. His build was also atrocious. It's really pointless to rush a catalyst on Janna when you can farm out of harass range and get additional ehp from your ap ratio on shield. Would've been so much better off getting drings and farming with Q. On October 04 2011 22:35 Beyonder wrote: Isnt oce so limited with his hero preferences though. He also kind of seems to lack overview of what is going on (slow player) He's not limited, but he's not particularly good at anything. To his credit, he brought Cass into the limelight, but he doesn't have any champ that you'd be scared of (think Jiji and Ori, Reginald and Brand, xPeke and Kass). On October 04 2011 22:45 chocolatebunny wrote: hm. oce is arguably the best ap carry in eu or even the world Disagree strongly. There are definitely better AP carries in NA, and in EU I would rank xPeke at the top. | ||
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