You know, other than nearly a second life for the entire team from the ult, a significantly more powerful shield, or a long range high-damage nuke that doesn't have a casting time. And surely she isn't capable of long-range, ungankable farming and unstoppable clearing of waves during a push.

LaNague

Germany9118 Posts

October 04 2011 10:57 GMT

#2162

why are we even arguing about this, ap janna is used because she can put up a lot of pressure by clearing an entire wave with 1 spell and obviously CLG trained for this scenario against Sk and instantly countered with sivir, who can push just as hard and is immune to jannas harass, thus having complete freefarm to get the items she needs to be one of the most devestating sustained damage dealers.

Obviously against a team like CLG you can do such a stunt only when you have the last pick.

imo, CLG has shown that they have a deep understanding of why LoL is played the way it is and Sk lacks that and were pretty helpless at times.

ArC_man

United States2798 Posts

October 04 2011 10:59 GMT

#2163

AP Janna is one of the fastest and safest split pushers. You can't catch her, you can't gank her unless you have like 3+ people with hard cc. It's one of the reasons why Saintvicious won so many games with jungle Janna.

aru

183 Posts

October 04 2011 11:05 GMT

#2164

I'm glad we got to see CLG's double teleport split push Sivir strat in this tourney. They used this strat against TSM in a scrim before and won. Next up is Dyrus' support Ashe.

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

October 04 2011 11:06 GMT

#2165

On October 04 2011 19:37 sprddeath wrote:

Show nested quote +

the thing is...against sk's team u dont need to push fast.
clg had a better team early, mid and late game. so they didnt need to rush anything

The pushing fast is to counter janna because she can't cs at tower but she can't stop sivir from pushing. She is good at staying in lane and not getting ganked and avoiding skill shots with the extra speed+shielding herself and once she gets triple dorans and level 3 tornado she starts clearing creep waves fast.

The point of ap janna is to keep kog maw safe essentially, not to do real damage herself.
The huge poke and the insane healing shielding that all scales well with AP does that well, but ocelote didn't showcase much of anything with his janna.

sprddeath

Portugal50 Posts

October 04 2011 11:07 GMT

#2166

On October 04 2011 19:59 ArC_man wrote:
AP Janna is one of the fastest and safest split pushers. You can't catch her, you can't gank her unless you have like 3+ people with hard cc. It's one of the reasons why Saintvicious won so many games with jungle Janna.

so u want to make the ap carry split push?

and the reason sv won so many games wth it was due to her strong ganks...a lvl 2 gank wth a huge slow + a knock up is stronger then most junglers have. and he goes jungle so the team still has an actual ap carry.

im not saying ap janna cant be usefull...im saying it cant be used as an actual ap carry.

DanielZKlein

United States1171 Posts

October 04 2011 11:08 GMT

#2167

Have the theory crafters of TL found an answer that SK could have had for the triple AoE ultimate initiate from CLG?

Slayer91

Ireland23335 Posts

October 04 2011 11:10 GMT

#2168

On October 04 2011 20:08 DanielZKlein wrote:
Have the theory crafters of TL found an answer that SK could have had for the triple AoE ultimate initiate from CLG?

Personally? Support janna with QSS over 2 of the gold/10 items, OR cleanse instead of flash. Tanky DPS jungler like udyr (amumu did nothing, with ap janna the ulti had no purpose, wickd didn't need it, kog maw doesn't benefit that much from it). Long ranged AP mid like brand or something who can threaten kennen. Udyr or whatever can also cc the kennen and he can be taken down fast. His bear stance also cancels galio ulti.

Can just run like jax/irelia/udyr with karma mid or zilean mid or something. Tanky dps seem like the best to be able to fight the AoE comp, that or poke comps. SK had some weird in between that didn't make much sense. I really dislike the amumu irelia combo they are superfluous really. Felt like snoopeh didn't do much in all 3 games.

sprddeath

Portugal50 Posts

October 04 2011 11:11 GMT

#2169

On October 04 2011 20:08 DanielZKlein wrote:
Have the theory crafters of TL found an answer that SK could have had for the triple AoE ultimate initiate from CLG?

yes, it's called morgana wth a zhonyas...tho i didnt see the bans so i dunno if morgana was banned >.<

Therealdevil

Netherlands1021 Posts

October 04 2011 11:12 GMT

#2170

Don't stand in the AOE.

Craton

United States17250 Posts

October 04 2011 11:13 GMT

#2171

Really? Because they're all in the OP.

No, she wasn't banned.

sprddeath

Portugal50 Posts

October 04 2011 11:14 GMT

#2172

On October 04 2011 20:12 Therealdevil wrote:
Don't stand in the AOE.

kinda hard when u are slowed by the pirate...taunted by the galio and stuned by the kennen. all they need is for galio or kennen to flash in..

sprddeath

Portugal50 Posts

October 04 2011 11:15 GMT

#2173

if they had picked morgana and let janna support....the 3 aoes wouldnt matter so much cause they couldnt realy go in to ulti against a zhonyas morgana

Craton

United States17250 Posts

October 04 2011 11:18 GMT

#2174

Uh, yes, yes they could have.

sprddeath

Portugal50 Posts

October 04 2011 11:27 GMT

#2175

if they flash in to ulti...jana would ulti them away...if they tried a 2nd time they would just be ultied by morgana...slowed + stuned would give kog more than time to get in a safe position

spinesheath

Germany8679 Posts

October 04 2011 11:51 GMT

#2176

Can you tell me why Janna wouldn't be able to lasthit under the tower?

Anyways, Janna only lost a couple of cs at the start. Sivir sure as hell didn't so much conter her as Janna did NOT counter Sivir. That's the big issue: Sivir with an easy laning phase - you want to avoid that.
Janna was decently farmed yet had almost no impact on the game aside from what any 0 cs Janna could have done. AP Janna has the issue that you funnel the responsibility to deal damage onto a champion who also needs to do... what Janna does. That is problematic because more often than not you want to have vastly different positioning and timing/targeting on your spells for each of these things.

DanielZKlein

United States1171 Posts

October 04 2011 12:13 GMT

#2177

Early game Janna can't last hit under the tower because she has an awful attack animation. The shield helps somewhat, but until her q can really clear waves, pushing creeps into the tower is a great way to mess with AP Janna.

Not only would a farmed AP Janna have been able to possibly burst people down more quickly, she could have also kept her lane enemy out of farm. Clearly that didn't happen with "if in doubt buy more BT" Sivir. Btw, AWESOME play by Chauster. Didn't do anything wrong that I could see.

I do agree with AP Janna just not working. Why not run her support and pick a real AP carry? Nyph's Sona didn't do THAT much to keep the AoE beasts at bay. How about a Gragas mid? Those ults could have REALLY messed with CLG.