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On July 18 2013 21:11 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 17:16 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
I've found zephyr is pretty ridonc. Bit of AD, enough AS you don't need to ever buy more, a ridiculous amount of MS in the current itemization, your mandatory tenacity and a little splash of CDR. Not the highest DPS, but affordable and has some great utility thrown in. Really? I think it's way too much gold spent for 0 tankiness stats. Yes, you get Tenacity, but you could just be getting that from ancient golem (most games) or merc treads (situational on jungle Udyr, less situational if lane udyr wants tenacity.) Yeah, it's got a nice amount of MS but at it's 3k gold price point it's competing with Triforce and BORK which are much more damage, still giving movespeed (and Triforce also gives a slowproc), much more utility, and even give a bit of tankiness in their own way. On a champion who is most likely only going to see 1 damage item in his build, Zephyr just isn't that much damage, and you can't really afford to combine it with other big damage items because then you just get crunched while you're running in to try and do damage.
Much rather have Wits End tbh, esp if im playing phoenix.
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As phoenix Udyr, I totally agree, the only reason I didn't mention Wit's is because of pricepoint and movespeed.
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zephyr isnt great on tiger either
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I want to learn tyger udyr, but I can't find any good guides. All featured and approved guides for udyr on Solomid are for phoenix jungle, and I don't really trust mobafire guides to guide me correctly. I've tried a few games with a setup similar to what I would use on someone like riven (21/9/0), with AD marks, AD quints, armor yellows, and MR/Lvl blues. Ghost ignite
Some problems I'm running into...
Don't know how to use turtle lifesteal most effectively in lane
Chewing though mana pretty fast trying to keep passive stacked to 3 or spamming turtle to deal with harass
Big troubles vs harass from ranged champions. Just can't deal with the constant autos withotu having to absolutely spam turtle shield and run out of mana very quickly.
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On July 20 2013 03:51 Arisen wrote:
I want to learn tyger udyr, but I can't find any good guides. All featured and approved guides for udyr on Solomid are for phoenix jungle, and I don't really trust mobafire guides to guide me correctly. I've tried a few games with a setup similar to what I would use on someone like riven (21/9/0), with AD marks, AD quints, armor yellows, and MR/Lvl blues. Ghost ignite
Some problems I'm running into...
Don't know how to use turtle lifesteal most effectively in lane
Chewing though mana pretty fast trying to keep passive stacked to 3 or spamming turtle to deal with harass
Big troubles vs harass from ranged champions. Just can't deal with the constant autos withotu having to absolutely spam turtle shield and run out of mana very quickly.
You should just use tiger to hit and back off, or use it to lvl 1 cheese, load tiger right click tiger right click ignite + auto attack spam to all in and kill them at 1.
In lane with the removal of mana return on turtle you cant try to keep stacks to 3 until youve got alot of levels in your skills since you eat mana so quickly now, until you can all in and kill them you should just poke farm poke farm etc.
Eventually though youre going to get to a point where even if you cant kill them they literally wont be able to do anything to you and you can just farm the entire time, sit in the middle of the wave with turtle on and ust farm till you get a buncha items and rape their entire team.
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On July 20 2013 03:51 Arisen wrote:
I want to learn tyger udyr, but I can't find any good guides. All featured and approved guides for udyr on Solomid are for phoenix jungle, and I don't really trust mobafire guides to guide me correctly. I've tried a few games with a setup similar to what I would use on someone like riven (21/9/0), with AD marks, AD quints, armor yellows, and MR/Lvl blues. Ghost ignite
Some problems I'm running into...
Don't know how to use turtle lifesteal most effectively in lane
Chewing though mana pretty fast trying to keep passive stacked to 3 or spamming turtle to deal with harass
Big troubles vs harass from ranged champions. Just can't deal with the constant autos withotu having to absolutely spam turtle shield and run out of mana very quickly.
It's actually pretty good to get a tear on lane udyr and if you do that you wont have mana problems and just laugh at harass. Getting a couple levels into turtle before maxing out tiger can help too
For Items I'd recommend either Botrk Triforce or Zephyr as the primary damage item. Of course you'd need mostly defensive items after that so either Sunfire or randuins or maybe a frozen heart. For MR there's Wits end and Spirit visage and if they got lots of burst you could get a hexdrinker
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On July 20 2013 04:38 OmegaKnetus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2013 03:51 Arisen wrote:
I want to learn tyger udyr, but I can't find any good guides. All featured and approved guides for udyr on Solomid are for phoenix jungle, and I don't really trust mobafire guides to guide me correctly. I've tried a few games with a setup similar to what I would use on someone like riven (21/9/0), with AD marks, AD quints, armor yellows, and MR/Lvl blues. Ghost ignite
Some problems I'm running into...
Don't know how to use turtle lifesteal most effectively in lane
Chewing though mana pretty fast trying to keep passive stacked to 3 or spamming turtle to deal with harass
Big troubles vs harass from ranged champions. Just can't deal with the constant autos withotu having to absolutely spam turtle shield and run out of mana very quickly.
It's actually pretty good to get a tear on lane udyr and if you do that you wont have mana problems and just laugh at harass. Getting a couple levels into turtle before maxing out tiger can help too For Items I'd recommend either Botrk Triforce or Zephyr as the primary damage item. Of course you'd need mostly defensive items after that so either Sunfire or randuins or maybe a frozen heart. For MR there's Wits end and Spirit visage and if they got lots of burst you could get a hexdrinker
Tear is a lategame solution to an early game problem. Don't do it. Buy a mana pot every time you base if you have to, but spending 100g in consumables for mana vs. 700g to solve a problem that doesn't exist later on in the game should be a no brainer.
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If you have mana problems in lane and your opponent is AD, just rush a glacial.
I don't think tear's all that great on Udyr, especially after the nerfs.
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What items do you build? i have been going weird shit that I would build on an ad assassin since i don't know how to build. I go straight brutalizer if i'm doing good or vamp if i'm struggling with their harass into probably an early cutlass or last whisper. My final build looks something like this...
Boots
BotrK
LW
Black Cleaver
Blood thirster
Situational last item
It just doesn't feel good a lot of the time, and I think that my items need to be switched up.
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On July 20 2013 17:23 Arisen wrote:
What items do you build? i have been going weird shit that I would build on an ad assassin since i don't know how to build. I go straight brutalizer if i'm doing good or vamp if i'm struggling with their harass into probably an early cutlass or last whisper. My final build looks something like this...
Boots
BotrK
LW
Black Cleaver
Blood thirster
Situational last item
It just doesn't feel good a lot of the time, and I think that my items need to be switched up.
Way. Too. Little. Defense.
Granted you're probably playing at a very low level, but even then.
General build for tiger udyr(laning) is one damage item for laning(triforce, botrk, hydra) with a dblade ->randuin's+1 more defensive item>maybe one more offensive item>more tank.
Total count.
Offensive 1-2, defensive 3-4, boots(swifties, tabi's, mercs all situational)
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so i've been massing udyr since SGU came out and here are my findings
you will automatically average 8 kills per game if you use the skin. exactly 8 kills, every game.
AD/AD/arm/cdr or AD/AD/arm/arm in the jungle, 9/21/0 but i could see 21/9/0 working too
tiger max, point in turtle and bear early, then assess your needs as you go
need to be a frontliner? -> turtle max
tough guys to chase? -> bear max
need to carry? -> phoenix max
i've opened with machete + 5, cloth + 5, and d-blade all to relative success in the jungle.
my first item has typically been phage -> kindlegem -> triforce (sheen first if you have to do it piece by piece) -> tabi -> ancient golem -> defensive items OR madred's bloodrazer. just kidding that item isn't in the game any more. for a second offensive item i get botrk.
i really want to phase ancient golem out of my build, because i want to start d-blade every game, but the item is so damn good. fuuuu.
teamfights are simple, you E straight into their team. if they play chicken and try to back off or kite, you just press W and back off. rinse and repeat until you're out of mana and you lose the fight and your team blames you. if they engage on your E, you have a half-second to decide if you want to dive their carry or peel for yours. 90% of the time i peel for mine, but if it's a carry that is very weak to udyr (kog, ashe before her big AS item, draven, twitch, ie the carries that don't have dashes or blinks) then just pounce on them with tiger/bear dance.
one thing that's really important is knowing your chase potential/limits as udyr. in a teamfight, the SECOND that someone is out of your potential kill range, just switch immediately to someone else. chasing a 10% hp MARKSMAN across the map while they kite you with red buff instead of just switching to their tanks is the saddest thing ever. you're unduelable as udyr. if you switch to a tank the tank has to run, it's that simple.
items i've tried on him and their effectiveness, and items that i don't need to try to know their effectiveness is limited, but i still see other players build them on udyr:
triforce: core, imo. it's got everything udyr wants.
tiamat/hydra: sadly, skip it. pretty worthless on this guy. it hurts me to say that
iceborn: grab it against 3 AD or a kitey marksman.
botrk: grab it when fed, always. active turns you into some sort of monster and you will literally 2-shot people with tiger botrk.
visage/locket: great builds out of kindlegem because cdr is such a good stat. probably only need 1 tho with golem
zephyr: 100% skip. i feel like i didn't even need to say that but i see other udyrs build it.
hexdrinker: skip in the jungle, situational top lane. more shields can't hurt against some champs like vlad
black cleaver: skip it 100%
stattik shiv: pull a balls/lemonnation and joke about suicide if you actually build this item on udyr.
frozen mallet: situational, when the situation is that you want triforce NOW but are exactly 540g short, and the enemy doesn't have any champs with %-hp damage.
bruta: really good on him, but hard to fit into a build, imo. build into ghostblade if you get it
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On July 21 2013 10:25 gtrsrs wrote:
so i've been massing udyr since SGU came out and here are my findings
you will automatically average 8 kills per game if you use the skin. exactly 8 kills, every game.
AD/AD/arm/cdr or AD/AD/arm/arm in the jungle, 9/21/0 but i could see 21/9/0 working too
tiger max, point in turtle and bear early, then assess your needs as you go
need to be a frontliner? -> turtle max
tough guys to chase? -> bear max
need to carry? -> phoenix max
i've opened with machete + 5, cloth + 5, and d-blade all to relative success in the jungle.
my first item has typically been phage -> kindlegem -> triforce (sheen first if you have to do it piece by piece) -> tabi -> ancient golem -> defensive items OR madred's bloodrazer. just kidding that item isn't in the game any more. for a second offensive item i get botrk.
i really want to phase ancient golem out of my build, because i want to start d-blade every game, but the item is so damn good. fuuuu.
teamfights are simple, you E straight into their team. if they play chicken and try to back off or kite, you just press W and back off. rinse and repeat until you're out of mana and you lose the fight and your team blames you. if they engage on your E, you have a half-second to decide if you want to dive their carry or peel for yours. 90% of the time i peel for mine, but if it's a carry that is very weak to udyr (kog, ashe before her big AS item, draven, twitch, ie the carries that don't have dashes or blinks) then just pounce on them with tiger/bear dance.
one thing that's really important is knowing your chase potential/limits as udyr. in a teamfight, the SECOND that someone is out of your potential kill range, just switch immediately to someone else. chasing a 10% hp MARKSMAN across the map while they kite you with red buff instead of just switching to their tanks is the saddest thing ever. you're unduelable as udyr. if you switch to a tank the tank has to run, it's that simple.
items i've tried on him and their effectiveness, and items that i don't need to try to know their effectiveness is limited, but i still see other players build them on udyr:
triforce: core, imo. it's got everything udyr wants.
tiamat/hydra: sadly, skip it. pretty worthless on this guy. it hurts me to say that
iceborn: grab it against 3 AD or a kitey marksman.
botrk: grab it when fed, always. active turns you into some sort of monster and you will literally 2-shot people with tiger botrk.
visage/locket: great builds out of kindlegem because cdr is such a good stat. probably only need 1 tho with golem
zephyr: 100% skip. i feel like i didn't even need to say that but i see other udyrs build it.
hexdrinker: skip in the jungle, situational top lane. more shields can't hurt against some champs like vlad
black cleaver: skip it 100%
stattik shiv: pull a balls/lemonnation and joke about suicide if you actually build this item on udyr.
frozen mallet: situational, when the situation is that you want triforce NOW but are exactly 540g short, and the enemy doesn't have any champs with %-hp damage.
bruta: really good on him, but hard to fit into a build, imo. build into ghostblade if you get it
Uhh, you should be starting Dblade regardless, and getting Golem anyways. I don't get how youre ever going to get triforce out of the jungle unless youre getting obnoxiously fed which i guess is easy on Udyr but you cant really count on that every game.
If you try to E into their team you'll get endless kited and die, Udyr isnt an initiating champion unless you plan on flash bearing to start a fight(which is still an atrocious idea)
Realistically with a jungle budget you should be going
Tiger : Dblade -> Golem -> Aegis/locket whatever(obv going to change next patch)
Phoenix -> Machete -> usually i'll get aegis, or kindlegem or something, if im doing well get wits end, if not finish aegis/golem thing. Randuins is always a pretty good choice too.
I'd absolutely never rush triforce, Mallet should never even be an option imo, Tiamat isnt totally awful, if youre fed and playing Tiger then yeah get bork, otherwise wits for Phoenix.
Phoenix runes should really always be AS/MS/Ar/Mr-L
Tiger was uhh, something like AD/1LS+2AD/Ar/Mr-L or something, starting with dblade
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United States37500 Posts
I agree with arb.
guitar, have you tried out Diamondprox's Tigerdyr build? I mean 9/21/0 is just the standard/default tanky jungler masteries, there's really nothing wrong with it but Diamond's 14/3/13 is mind-boggling efficient. Not sure why you would ever suggest 21/9/0.
Trinity is nice as the sole offensive option but I wouldn't rush the item. Wit's for Phoenix is good. I have mixed feelings about BotRK in general on Udyr.
Tigerdyr, straight up Q > E > W > R. Point in W at level 2.
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im a big fan of trinity force if you can afford it, in situations that you want mobility more than straight up dps. (wits end good for dps). When you're underfed you cant afford it obviously, you just get full tank. However without any damage itesm you are basiaclly kinda useless lategame but its okay if your team has damage because you can get away with sub par cc then
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On July 25 2013 05:47 NeoIllusions wrote:
I agree with arb.
guitar, have you tried out Diamondprox's Tigerdyr build? I mean 9/21/0 is just the standard/default tanky jungler masteries, there's really nothing wrong with it but Diamond's 14/3/13 is mind-boggling efficient. Not sure why you would ever suggest 21/9/0.
Trinity is nice as the sole offensive option but I wouldn't rush the item. Wit's for Phoenix is good. I have mixed feelings about BotRK in general on Udyr.
Tigerdyr, straight up Q > E > W > R. Point in W at level 2.
This is what I do the Q does not have AoE but the attack speed really helps with everything.
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Thoughts on statik shiv on udyr top?
Tried it last night, was playing vs akali. started dorans blade + Q, running 2 lifesteal quint, ad reds, 1 ad quint, flat mr/armour and 9/21/0.
pushed akali out of lane level 1/2 really easy, went hexdrinker first into tenacity boots, statik shiv then randuins.
seemed really strong, although I am like bronze level on oce lol
EDIT: just noticed this
stattik shiv: pull a balls/lemonnation and joke about suicide if you actually build this item on udyr
brb suicide
actually in this game vs akali i probably could have built anything anyway i was owning so hard
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On July 25 2013 07:15 ZataN wrote:
Thoughts on statik shiv on udyr top?
Tried it last night, was playing vs akali. started dorans blade + Q, running 2 lifesteal quint, ad reds, 1 ad quint, flat mr/armour and 9/21/0.
pushed akali out of lane level 1/2 really easy, went hexdrinker first into tenacity boots, statik shiv then randuins.
seemed really strong, although I am like bronze level on oce lol
Don't like it, get a tiamat and a hydra if you want good waveclear + the shitload of AD really helps with extra Q damage, plus lets you push like a monster, and gives pretty good 1v1 capability(not many can 1v1 a farmed tigerdyr regarldess tho)
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On July 25 2013 07:30 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 07:15 ZataN wrote:
Thoughts on statik shiv on udyr top?
Tried it last night, was playing vs akali. started dorans blade + Q, running 2 lifesteal quint, ad reds, 1 ad quint, flat mr/armour and 9/21/0.
pushed akali out of lane level 1/2 really easy, went hexdrinker first into tenacity boots, statik shiv then randuins.
seemed really strong, although I am like bronze level on oce lol
Don't like it, get a tiamat and a hydra if you want good waveclear + the shitload of AD really helps with extra Q damage, plus lets you push like a monster, and gives pretty good 1v1 capability(not many can 1v1 a farmed tigerdyr regarldess tho)
So im thinking Ravenous > Wits end > randuins with boots somewhere in there? would serve a similar pupose to my other build, assuming you need the MR
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On July 25 2013 08:14 ZataN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 07:30 arb wrote:On July 25 2013 07:15 ZataN wrote:
Thoughts on statik shiv on udyr top?
Tried it last night, was playing vs akali. started dorans blade + Q, running 2 lifesteal quint, ad reds, 1 ad quint, flat mr/armour and 9/21/0.
pushed akali out of lane level 1/2 really easy, went hexdrinker first into tenacity boots, statik shiv then randuins.
seemed really strong, although I am like bronze level on oce lol
Don't like it, get a tiamat and a hydra if you want good waveclear + the shitload of AD really helps with extra Q damage, plus lets you push like a monster, and gives pretty good 1v1 capability(not many can 1v1 a farmed tigerdyr regarldess tho) So im thinking Ravenous > Wits end > randuins with boots somewhere in there? would serve a similar pupose to my other build, assuming you need the MR
Probably visage at first imo, CDR + MR +The heal thing = real gud
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On July 25 2013 08:15 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 08:14 ZataN wrote:On July 25 2013 07:30 arb wrote:On July 25 2013 07:15 ZataN wrote:
Thoughts on statik shiv on udyr top?
Tried it last night, was playing vs akali. started dorans blade + Q, running 2 lifesteal quint, ad reds, 1 ad quint, flat mr/armour and 9/21/0.
pushed akali out of lane level 1/2 really easy, went hexdrinker first into tenacity boots, statik shiv then randuins.
seemed really strong, although I am like bronze level on oce lol
Don't like it, get a tiamat and a hydra if you want good waveclear + the shitload of AD really helps with extra Q damage, plus lets you push like a monster, and gives pretty good 1v1 capability(not many can 1v1 a farmed tigerdyr regarldess tho) So im thinking Ravenous > Wits end > randuins with boots somewhere in there? would serve a similar pupose to my other build, assuming you need the MR Probably visage at first imo, CDR + MR +The heal thing = real gud
Wow ok I didn't think of that, I always built visage on aatrox sometime after BOTRK or ravenous, makes complete sense on udyr with turtle leech and ravenous leech.
Cool, gunna try tonight and own some face
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EPT
