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[Champion] Udyr

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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walrus
Profile Joined February 2010
Vietnam68 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-12 12:59:47
April 25 2013 18:14 GMT
#1
Udyr is one of my favourite champion, and since he has been tweaked recently, I think TL forums need an up-to-date guide. This guide will only focus on jungling Phoenix Udyr.

Old TL guide
LoL Wiki

1. Pros and Cons

Pros:
+ Show Spoiler +
  • Noob-friendly
  • Quite tanky but still have damage
  • Independant of blue buff (you still need the first one though).
  • Very strong at level 3-4 (the golden moment of junglers).
  • Incredible good at closed-combat.
  • The next legendary skin is Spirit Guard Udyr (don't tell anyone from Garena Vietnam or they will fire my friend).

Cons:
+ Show Spoiler +
  • Lack an ultimate, so he doesnt have a strong impact at mid game.
  • Can be kited/poked easily
  • Too many champions can do well against him, please don't first pick him blindly.


2. Why you shouldn't choose Tiger
+ Show Spoiler +
When jungling, don't learn Q except you really know what you are doing. There are some reasons why Saintvicious, TheOddOne, Diamondprox.... only take Phoenix:

  • Phoenix stance work better with Monkey's Agility. Switching stances already gives you a lot of AS and MS (30% AS and 15 MS at 3 stacks, and you can reach this at level 2). So all you need is damage.
  • Phoenix stance does decent AOE damage. As a jungler, you will use much time at Wraith camp. Faster farming lead to better map controlling.
  • Tiger stance force you buy Lantern. You choose lifesteal (useless on Udyr since Turtle stance already gives it) instead of mana regen, tenacity (precious stats) from spirit items.
  • Last but not least, Phoenix now have burst damage like Tiger. So Phoenix stance not only help you at farming, but also decent at ganking.


3. Abilities
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]Monkey's Agility:
Each time Udyr switches stances, he gains 5 movement speed and 10% attack speed for 5 seconds. This effect can stack up to 3 times.

One reason of his insane clearing speed. 30% attack speed at early is no joke. Also gives decent MS, so when ganking, switching stance 2 times in the bush, then go straight to the target and activate E, for max MS.

[image loading]Tiger Stance:
Stance Activation: Udyr gains attack speed for 5 seconds. Udyr's first attack after activation will deal bonus physical damage over 2 seconds to the target.

Persistent Effect: Udyr's basic attacks deal bonus physical damage equal to 15% of his attack damage.

I don't learn it except after winning a teamfight and I need to kill turret quickly.

[image loading]Turtle Stance:
Stance Activation: Udyr gains a shield for 5 seconds.

Persistent Effect: Udyr gains life steal.

The activation is what make Udyr very tanky. The shield has an AP ratio but don't think about it, CDR is what you need.

[image loading]Bear Stance
Stance Activation: Udyr gains increased movement speed and ignores unit collision for a few seconds. If he attacks an enemy during this time, he will also dash slightly closer to them.

Persistent Effect: Udyr's basic attacks stun his target for 1 second. This effect cannot reoccur on the same target within 6 seconds.

The only ganking tool of Udyr. Sometimes you have to save it to interrupt channeling (such as Katarina's ult).

[image loading]Phoenix Stance
Stance Activation: Udyr unleashes pulsing waves of fire around himself, dealing magic damage each second to enemies within 250 range for 5 seconds.

Persistent Effect: On the first attack after activation and on every third subsequent attack, Udyr engulfs enemies in flames, dealing magic damage in a cone in front of him.

Your bread and butter. Now you can proc double fire: Activating R, run to your target but don't do anything, When you reach him, attack then activating R again for another pulse.


4. Skill build
+ Show Spoiler +
R>W>E>Q. Some people prefer learning one point of Q at level 2 for better clearing and killing power.


5. Summoner spells
+ Show Spoiler +
Smite is mandatory since you are the jungler.
You can choose Flash or either Ghost. Personally I prefer Ghost because with a low cooldown, it can help me gank across the map. But Flash is needed for clutch plays such as jumping over walls.


6. Masteries
+ Show Spoiler +
4/26/0 if you pick Ghost (Diamondprox' setup).
0/21/9 for Flash. Mastermind is amazing because it reduces Flash cooldown about 30s. You will have 30s timing window for Flash + Bear stance while enemy Flash isn't up. Have 63s cooldown Smite also help you stealing camp better (use Smite and clear all their wolf camp, then go back when your Smite is up).
Since Udyr no longer has armor and magic resist from Monkey's Agility, Honor Guard is mandatory and you should pick it everytime.


7. Runes
+ Show Spoiler +
  • 9x AS Mark
  • 9x Armor Seal
  • 5x MR per level Glyph
  • 4x MR Glyph
  • 3x MS Quint.

Standard rune for jungling. I prefer counter jungling so some early MR definitely helps.


8. Items
+ Show Spoiler +
Start with Machete+5pots.

After 1st Recall: Normally, Spiritstone, it is mandatory if you want to steal their 2nd buffs. Buy Philo instead if you are behind (it payback after 10 mins, so even you have an ankward midgame, you will be more useful at late game). Buy Madred + Crystaline Flask if their jungler is a very aggressive one such as Vi or Shaco.

After 2nd Recall: Boots of Speed. Sightstone if against strong ganker such as Jarvan (you need one ward at his wraith so you can track him down). Otherwise Ruby Crystal -> Kindlegem.

Mid game core items are Locket and Aegis. Bulwark if needed. Buy Spirit of Ancient Golem if you are not behind because CDR and Tenacity are great. Best boots is Boots of Swiftness.

Randuin / Frozen Heart are end game items. Shurelia is overnerfed so don't buy it. Wit's End or Iceborn Gauntlet are luxury items, only get them if you are stomping.


9. Jungling
+ Show Spoiler +
Udyr gameplay is not much, therefore I will only focus on jungle routes.

Safe route
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Those red points are where I use Smite. This route is recommended for newbie, since they don't have enough rune nor experience. Start at double golem - the safest place in the jungle help you against any invasion. Everytime you face a big monster, your Smite is up, so you will have enough sustain.


Lane swap
+ Show Spoiler +
In this case, just farm your double buffs quickly. You can gank mid if there is an opening, otherwise, defend your weaker lane. It helps your solo laner, and losing bottom turret as purple team may lead to losing two dragons (iG also made this mistake when playing against WE).


At Blue team
+ Show Spoiler +
I prefer Blue side when playing Udyr. There are many routes, and the first one is the most used:

[image loading]

The main idea is reach level 3 ASAP, so you can gank very early, and secure your double buffs.
Skill order: R - W - E.
Kill Wraith before Red because it spawns sooner. Since you are near your mid laner, ADC and support, you will get a hard leash at Red. So you can go straight to Blue buff, kill it then gank mid or top. After ganking, kill Wolf, recall for Spiritstone then farm.

If you just wanna farm, you can choose 2nd route:

[image loading]

This is very common in season 2. Skill order: R - W - R - E. Start at blue then farm across the jungle.
If the enemy jungler is good at stealing or ganking, then you may lose your Red buff, or your mid laner will die few times. I am not recommend use this route since at silver Elo or higher, a jungler must have some impact at level 3.

[image loading]

Above is the "counter Red" route, that I use against slow jungler such as Amumu.
Mana jungler usually clear Blue first if they are at purple side, so you can sneak to their Red buff and kill it in time.

[image loading]

Skill order: R - E. Tell your teammate hard leash your Blue. Use your Bear stance to run quickly. Lure all monsters to the bush (so the enemy wont see you). After finish, you can learn either Q or W then gank top or mid.

If you success, well that is the best route because not only you have stolen their buff, but your gank is also very powerful. But that route is useless against red starter such as Lee Sin or Shaco. They can gank even at level 2, and you cannot sure where they are. It's hard when you have to counter gank Lee Sin, so if your teammates don't ward near their Red, use the 4th route:

[image loading]

Udyr now has lower manacost so you can start at Red and still counter gank effectively.
Skill order: R. Don't level up anything at level 2, just sneak to the mid turret then wait about 20s.
  • If your enemy gank mid, learn E and fuck him with your insane DPS.
  • If he gank top, steal his blue.
  • If he doesn't show up, check your Blue buff. After clearing it, go back to mid turret because there is a high chance that he will come.


At Purple team
+ Show Spoiler +
Since Udyr has weak CC and no dash, he usually cannot take Red buff then gank at level 2 like Lee Sin or Jarvan. Counter red is very risky because the enemy duo lane can show up immediately. So you just have one route:

[image loading]

It is mostly the 1st route from Blue team. Same skill order: R - W - E.


10. Matchup
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]Difficult: 4/5
Many people think that Amumu is a easy candy for Udyr, because he is no match to you.
Except it is not. In season 3, Amumu is very tanky, you cannot kill him in the jungle without be gangbanged by his teammate. At level 6 and so on, Amumu can easily Q then R your team, but you can do literally nothing. His hard CC is also hard counter to your move speed. Last but not least, Amumu is picked with some powerful mage such as Katarina or Karthus - and Udyr hate them. I usually have to ban Amumu.
Counter:
  • Rush Bulwark. Buy a Philo first to get more gold.
  • Invade his 1st Blue buff. Amumu is very reliant on his first blue, and he has no dueling power, so a good invasion will deny him hard. Tell your support place a green ward at your Blue buff so he won't steal yours.
  • Steal his red, wraith, wolf to delay his level 6.
  • Outgank him. At level 3-4, your gank is far more powerful than him. Gank top many times so he has to come top, thus delay his farming streak.


[image loading]Difficult: 3.5/5
Annoying opponent. He can gank everywhere, everytime. Invading is not a option because of his flag. I recommended just farm and try to counter gank.

[image loading]Difficult: 2.5/5
Like Jarvan, his gank are very powerful. He also can steal your buff, so get your level 3 quickly. But he cannot win you 1vs1 directly. Try to counter gank, because Lee Sin is useless at later if unfed. Buy Sightstone to track him down.

[image loading]Difficult: 2/5
The recent buff make him on par. His gank are deadly with 4 CC. But he is weak like a minion at 1vs1, so just counter jungle and fight him everytime you see him. An early invasion is even better.


10. Invasion
+ Show Spoiler +
This is how blue team invade (purple team does the same thing). B1 and B2 are the path for invading Blue Buff, same go for R1 and R2

[image loading]

B2 and R2 are long paths but much better. You run quickly to #1 point, then wait to 1:35, go to #2 point (if you run too slow, you may get caught).


11. Warding
+ Show Spoiler +
This is warding map of blue team jungler. It's not much different from purple side.

[image loading]

  1. Their Wraith: The farming camp of junglers, mid laners, even top laners. You must have a ward here, because it even protect your blue buff.
  2. Their Blue: Steal it will make their mid laner struggles.
  3. Your Wraith: You have to ward here if you wanna gank top (so mid and bottom still receive your helping).
  4. Dragon.
  5. Their Red.
  6. This ward is for killing a mage waiting for blue buff.
  7. For protecting your mid laner.
  8. For protecting your top laner
  9. A pink ward at baron is necessary after 25mins.
Success is not a harbor, but a voyage.
VashTS
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1675 Posts
April 28 2013 23:21 GMT
#2
"The next legendary skin is Spirit Guard Udyr (don't tell anyone from Garena Vietnam or they will fire my friend)."

^^Is that legit?
VashTS; 330; Random -- Ranked #9 Pokemon Video Game Player in the World in 2009
walrus
Profile Joined February 2010
Vietnam68 Posts
April 29 2013 02:29 GMT
#3
On April 29 2013 08:21 VashTS wrote:
"The next legendary skin is Spirit Guard Udyr (don't tell anyone from Garena Vietnam or they will fire my friend)."

^^Is that legit?

Well, since Riot will announce about it on 5/17 or so, I don't have to worry much.
Success is not a harbor, but a voyage.
Lightswarm
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada966 Posts
April 29 2013 02:50 GMT
#4
when are they changing q to physical, its still doing magic dmg lol
Team[AoV]
soverelgne
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom72 Posts
April 29 2013 16:16 GMT
#5
They did change it on PBE, then they reverted it i think.
walrus
Profile Joined February 2010
Vietnam68 Posts
April 30 2013 13:54 GMT
#6
Now Tiger stance deals physical damage.

Time to get Black Cleave.
Success is not a harbor, but a voyage.
Lightswarm
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada966 Posts
April 30 2013 15:31 GMT
#7
its only the first atk that gets the phy dmg bonus
Team[AoV]
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
April 30 2013 15:33 GMT
#8
But it also stacks BC pretty fast through the DoT.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Lightswarm
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada966 Posts
April 30 2013 15:48 GMT
#9
finishing bc is pretty expensive, kinda good for like 3rd/4th item
Team[AoV]
HughMyron
Profile Joined April 2012
297 Posts
May 15 2013 10:15 GMT
#10
Yeah, uh, Tiger Udyr is kinda herpaderpa now. It can be good if you have crazy farm or are in a 6-item situation, but other than that it's too hard balancing AD/ArPen with tankiness. Phoenix Udyr just needs one DPS item (Trinity or Bork or Zephyr) and can go straight tank and still do fine, because Phoenix has better base but crap scaling.

I've been playing around with top lane Udyr. Phoenix Udyr is one of my new favorite top laners, he's incredibly resilient and has a lot of pushing power. He's pretty gankable tho, I'm still working on how to deal with getting ganked over and over.
Platinum III, Kayle/Janna/Ashe Fanboy, HUEHUEHUE
Metafour
Profile Joined November 2011
United States137 Posts
May 15 2013 15:36 GMT
#11
Hard counter to Udyr, Nasus. Playing this matchup hurts. You can be kited really hard with wither even with boots of swiftness.
"As you think, so shall you become." @JayJackson94
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-16 16:32:52
May 16 2013 16:29 GMT
#12
On May 15 2013 19:15 HughMyron wrote:
Yeah, uh, Tiger Udyr is kinda herpaderpa now. It can be good if you have crazy farm or are in a 6-item situation, but other than that it's too hard balancing AD/ArPen with tankiness. Phoenix Udyr just needs one DPS item (Trinity or Bork or Zephyr) and can go straight tank and still do fine, because Phoenix has better base but crap scaling.

I've been playing around with top lane Udyr. Phoenix Udyr is one of my new favorite top laners, he's incredibly resilient and has a lot of pushing power. He's pretty gankable tho, I'm still working on how to deal with getting ganked over and over.

I wouldn't exactly say Phoenix Stance have a bad scaling, pulses adds up to a 125% ratio with every third attack procing an aoe of 45%. I've had a lot of fun with an Iceborn+Seraphs (charges up super fast), this not only does alot of damage due to the AP and Iceborn proc but also empowers his low cooldown shield (armor, cdr and shield boost is just a simply fabulous package) while even granting a massive shield active.
- soloing baron is an easy and fast task with said items.

Don't know if it's viable in higher league, but it certainly is at mine - gold (rollercosting between 1 and 4 at the moment).

Personally I haven't had many issues with escaping ganks after switching my quints to movespeed, and depending on lane opponent CDR blues, which combined with early boots and bear stance (speed + stun). Maokai is a pain tho.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
May 16 2013 20:02 GMT
#13
Tiger is generally a stronger teamfighting skill than Phoenix, especially after they changed it to give a passive bonus damage on autos. You take Phoenix in the jungle because it makes your clear much faster and the damage output/burst is rather even with Tiger. Tiger really shines in teamfights that last longer compared to ganks where you can really take advantage of the aspd boost and the new passive. It's also insane for tower pushing. Even with Tiger Udyr you only still only need 1~2 damage items; take your pick from BC, Bork, Triforce, and Gauntlet. The general idea is still the same tbh; get a few damage items, tank out and max cdr.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
May 18 2013 18:38 GMT
#14
On May 16 2013 00:36 Metafour wrote:
Hard counter to Udyr, Nasus. Playing this matchup hurts. You can be kited really hard with wither even with boots of swiftness.


not that bad you out sustain nasus in trade wars in fights with stun vs wither and withering you for whatever 30% less effective slow and lasting only 3 seconds or something instead of a full duration full effect slow on an ad carrry is quite the trade off
GARO
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2255 Posts
May 19 2013 20:38 GMT
#15
4 hits to proc twice = i like to play phoenix udyr everywhere again
walrus
Profile Joined February 2010
Vietnam68 Posts
May 20 2013 15:22 GMT
#16
On May 20 2013 05:38 GARO wrote:
4 hits to proc twice = i like to play phoenix udyr everywhere again

Actually you can proc three times.
R, aa, R, aa, aa, aa.
Bolded means procing hit.
Success is not a harbor, but a voyage.
Ghost-z
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1291 Posts
May 20 2013 16:45 GMT
#17
Does this mean you can double proc Phoenix in the same manner that you can double proc Tiger? That level 2 burst R>Q>R!!!
Fairy Tales when you're a child begin with "Once upon a time" and when you're an adult begin, "If elected I promise..."
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
May 20 2013 17:00 GMT
#18
it just depends on the cooldown

its somewhat impractical to stay in pheonix stance for 5 seconds before getting a hit off and then at pressing r again when it comes off cd

99% of the time you will want to be using either bear or turtle while closing this distance
unjugon
Profile Joined March 2011
Spain119 Posts
May 23 2013 18:56 GMT
#19
I believe we might be underestimating an item like Atma´s now that turtle can crit. Yes it has had bad rep since its nerf and the change to Warmog´s, but it now builds out of the Averice blade and it´s still quite cost effective, especially for Udyr who gets free attack speed and high base HP (a combination not that easy to find). I believe it has untapped potential for Udyr.

After some thinking, this is how I would go about building this Udyr (let´s consider for solo que a more carry-from-the-jungle approach instead of the defense-support build we are used to seeing):

Masteries: 9/21/0 (armor pen, improved ghost, HP and tenacity)
Summoners: Ghost+Smite
Runes: Standard jungling runes with move speed quints
Core item build (not in particular order):
- Spirit of the Ancient Golem
- Twin Shadows
- Mallet
- Atma´s

Good points of the build:
- Not particularly expensive at 9300 gold, can be attained in a decent % of games.
- Ties all the knots for a bruiser build (Around 3700 HP, 140 armor, 120 resist, 200 damage -with 56 damage from Atma´s). 3900+ HP, 59 damage from Atma´s with red elixir.
- Twin Shadows replaces boots for increased versatility, fills the need for some magic resist, and enables reaching up to targets to disable them with Phage/Mallet´s slow (along with ghost).
- Hard peeling potential (does not only peel but also hurt).
- Intense damage, both in burst (from tiger and switching to phoenix) and continuous; forces enemy team to deal with you.
- With the AP, you can leave Phoenix at third rank early (still decent damage/clearing speed), and start leveling Tiger a bit, which complements Phage better later on.
- The build order seems versatile. You can rush Lucky Pick and Avarice Blade for the gold, or rush Phage, or the more standard Spirit of Ancient Golem first, or rush Twin Shadows for the chasing potential and required early move speed.

Potential weaknesses:
- A bit light on cooldown reduction, an important stat for Udyr (I would probably go for Frozen Heart afterwards, unless there´s a fed caster).
- Standard boots 1 might still be required unless you rush Twin Shadows, which helps little when diving.
- Damage inflicted is a bit binary: there´s an obvious increase when you get Atma´s, but until then your typical bruiser with early Brutalizer probably hits harder
Metafour
Profile Joined November 2011
United States137 Posts
May 23 2013 21:16 GMT
#20
On May 19 2013 03:38 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2013 00:36 Metafour wrote:
Hard counter to Udyr, Nasus. Playing this matchup hurts. You can be kited really hard with wither even with boots of swiftness.


not that bad you out sustain nasus in trade wars in fights with stun vs wither and withering you for whatever 30% less effective slow and lasting only 3 seconds or something instead of a full duration full effect slow on an ad carrry is quite the trade off

I agree that you can probably trade better then he can in fights, but if your playing a good nasus and your gropued he will likely wither you alot. I guess it also depends.
"As you think, so shall you become." @JayJackson94
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