[Champion] Swain - Page 4

On November 21 2012 16:09 Sufficiency wrote:
I think it will be very easy for him to charge Tear in s3. He can just turn his ult on for one second to charge tear stacks once for 25 mana. He can do this once every 6 seconds.

On November 21 2012 23:02 Alzadar wrote:


You can't just spam your ult on/off in lane, your opponent will punish you when it's down.

On November 22 2012 05:38 Tooplark wrote:
You don't buy tear so you can charge it. You buy tear so that you have a large mana pool; charging it is a means to that end. (It's a semantic distinction, but an important one.)
So the question facing a Swain player is "Is Tear the best way to increase my mana pool?" Currently, the answer is almost always no - Tear is awkward to build and leaves you vulnerable to all but the stompiest lanes. (Side note: if you're winning your lane hard you should consider buying Tear instead of Catalyst.)
Catalyst serves three important functions in lane for Swain. The first is as a source of hp and mana regen. Even with ult and blue, Swain can use more health and mana. The second is as general-purpose survivability. The third is a boost to mana pool.
Tear only offers one of these things, and early on not even cost-efficiently. However, with the Tear cost reduction it will be much easier to fill in the other two (Tear, Flask and NMM or Cloth as matchup-appropriate, perhaps?)

On November 22 2012 07:23 Cloud9157 wrote:
Hourglass is core on Swain lolwut

Also, even suggesting anything but ignite/flash on Swain is just dead wrong imo. I mean, if you wanted to run ghost instead of Flash, I could see that (flash>>>>Ghost still imo). Ignite is a HUGE part of his combo, since Torment will amplify its dot. You lose way too much damage by not taking it.

I wondered how these new items would benefit Swain, but idk. Haven't checked many yet, but all I know is Swain needs mostly health+mana. He doesn't need pure ap like most mages, since he has 2 single target spells.

On November 22 2012 06:32 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
What do people think of the new items? torment+sorc boots seems like a decent choice on him as an opening item if you're good with your mana management. 35 MP, health, AP and a current health shred. I think it might be a go to if you're a competent swain player since it's cheaper than RoA and significantly stronger for your damage output. ROA is kind of overkill for sustain and tankyness that early.

On November 22 2012 09:51 Alzadar wrote:


What the hell kind of attitude is that, the game is being flipped on its head with S3 and you think even suggesting anything but the status quo is dead wrong?

Between CD nerfs to Ignite and big buffs to Clarity, it should definitely be considered. Lessened reliance on getting an early mana item + huge duration ultimates later both sound really powerful. With Clarity early you can be much more aggressive with Decrepify usage.

On November 22 2012 11:39 Cloud9157 wrote:


Maybe saying dead wrong was the wrong wording. But despite the cd nerf on ignite, I still don't see why you would bring any other spell in place of it. Like I said, its rough passing up the damage it does when amplified.

Also, the whole concern with Swain running oom in fights (which he does if they are drawn out enough) is fixed with a Grail. Getting mana back on kill/assist is really nice, considering there are most likely 3 people on the enemy team that should die before you.

On November 22 2012 15:19 ManyCookies wrote:
So quick test on the PBE, I could fill Tear reasonably fast just by doing what I normally do, no collecting tear stacks with blind Bird forms or anything like that. And Seraph felt like a strong item on Swain (smaller and less reliable HP buffer, but larger AP and mana pool). The problem is that ROA comes online more quickly and has a stronger early build path via Catalyst; the mana shield upgrade would be awkwardly delayed 5-10 minutes from ROA completion. While a Tear isn't a huge divergence from a ROA build path (before or just after Cata seems reasonable, delay ROA completion a bit), it would essentially function as a second ROA at the time where we want something like Hourglass or DC/newDFG. I dunno, it's a rock solid third item, but I'm not super confident it's worth the Tear hassle.

/ramble

Also, "Grizzled yet Classy Master of the Battlefield" Northern Front or "Muhaha there's nothing you can do to stop me foolish heroes my plan is nearly complete et cetera" Tyrant skin?

On November 22 2012 13:05 xes wrote:
If you have RoA, Grail is total overkill for Swain's mana issues. You'd really only get it for the CDR and MR, but Spirit Visage is better for that.

Perhaps a Chalice for laning instead of Catalyst and then skip RoA entirely, but that feels a lot more awkward since I'd rather have a bigger mana pool (not to mention real sustain instead of mana sustain converted into HP via ult).

Swain's only weaknesses in teamfights are insane burst damage that kills you before you can CAW CAW enough, and ignite. Money spent on Athene's could've gone to Zhonya's or QSS which will help way more than the extra mana sustain. If your limiting factor in killing everything in a teamfight comes from not being able to keep bird up continuously for 20 seconds, then you pretty much could've built anything and crushed faces.

tl;dr RoA/Athene's is either or for Swain. He doesn't have Anivia-tier mana issues.