EPT[Champion] Swain - Page 3
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Also, I beat the last few olafs I played against top. You can bully him with torment + autos for the first few levels and save decrep for if he hits an axe. As long as you hit 6 when or before he does (and with enough health) you can just run away if he ghost+ults at you. I would consider running ghost in some matchups as Swain, btw. He can make much better use of the sticking/long-term fleeing power than most other AP casters. | ||
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
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Wetty
Australia419 Posts
What do you guys think of that matchup? | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
Old Kat used to be a problem because her heal reduction was spammable, haven't played vs new Kat. Hardest matchup top for me was Lee. He just gives no fucks about your Q and W and then hits you for half your HP. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On November 18 2012 14:20 Wetty wrote: I've played Swain mostly as my go-to pick against Morgana players. Swain seems to be able to bully her pretty hard in a straight up fight, although she pushes pretty hard for poor old Swain, and brings a strong team fight presence that Swain can't match. What do you guys think of that matchup? She pushes way harder than you do, ive thought about just maxing W instead of E in this matchup truthfully, she'll be able to hurr durr farm the entire wave with no effort,s o you need somethign to do the same thing. Also to the person above, always start with W then E Q E. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Considering what's FotM, I'd say he fares better mid than top now (the opposite may have been true before) because of the power creep regarding gap closers, trading power and mobility in general. Most of the champs that are annoying in lane (ie. longer ranged generally, because that makes them harder to catch and keep in Q/R range, or who can straight up 100-0 him) are outscaled later (Lux, Xerath, LB), so as long as he farms he doesn't care too much. How does he do against Karthus btw? WoP outranges almost anything Swain has, and he's pretty much required to sit in Defile for the 5 seconds (due to the slow) if he wants to do any damage to him. Should he just farm, use QE to bully Karthus, and if caught by a WoP, try to minimize the damage then come back as soon as his cooldowns are back up (shorter than WoP's 18 seconds, except for Nevermove)? | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On November 18 2012 16:07 arb wrote: She pushes way harder than you do, ive thought about just maxing W instead of E in this matchup truthfully, she'll be able to hurr durr farm the entire wave with no effort,s o you need somethign to do the same thing. Also to the person above, always start with W then E Q E. I don't see the point in starting W unless you're going to invade or see a invade coming. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On November 18 2012 22:42 TheKefka wrote: I don't see the point in starting W unless you're going to invade or see a invade coming. It's also pretty useful for your jungler when you leash. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
A lvl 1 W does no damage,it's like a auto attack and a half,has a massive cooldown,depletes a third of your mana and you're not even supposed to hit it(even if you do it won't do much) Swain's early game strength lies in spamming E,Q and autos on people whenever it's off cd,leach the mana back with last hits,rinse and repeat.Taking W first will do nothing to exploit that. EQ is a incredible lane bully combo,it will burn through peoples health pots in no time so you want to get it asap in most cases unless maybe you are getting a early gank and than you take W at lvl 2. Early levels is when you start asserting your dominance as swain,taking W first won't do anything to help you with that in a 1v1 situation.Take it if you are gonna invade or you see people running into your jungle,apart from that I wouldn't take it before lvl 3 or 4. | ||
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
On November 18 2012 22:24 Alaric wrote: How does he do against Karthus btw? WoP outranges almost anything Swain has, and he's pretty much required to sit in Defile for the 5 seconds (due to the slow) if he wants to do any damage to him. Should he just farm, use QE to bully Karthus, and if caught by a WoP, try to minimize the damage then come back as soon as his cooldowns are back up (shorter than WoP's 18 seconds, except for Nevermove)? It's basically Cass-lite; in theory, Karthus should win pretty handily with Skittles/Wall kiting and farming. However, that entails a. Karthus having the mechanical skill to pull that off b. Having a brain to realize he can't trade up front ever c. Not screwing a or b up at any point, even if he's leading, because you can punish him very hard for it. So basically depends on how good the Karthus is. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 18 2012 22:24 Alaric wrote: Swain mid's much stronger since the range buff on his Q I think, I haven't played him much there since, but one of his problems before that was his range, as in if he wanted to hurt you he had to hit his 18s cd Nevermove just to be able to get close enough to cast his Q without you immediatly breaking the tether. Considering what's FotM, I'd say he fares better mid than top now (the opposite may have been true before) because of the power creep regarding gap closers, trading power and mobility in general. Most of the champs that are annoying in lane (ie. longer ranged generally, because that makes them harder to catch and keep in Q/R range, or who can straight up 100-0 him) are outscaled later (Lux, Xerath, LB), so as long as he farms he doesn't care too much. How does he do against Karthus btw? WoP outranges almost anything Swain has, and he's pretty much required to sit in Defile for the 5 seconds (due to the slow) if he wants to do any damage to him. Should he just farm, use QE to bully Karthus, and if caught by a WoP, try to minimize the damage then come back as soon as his cooldowns are back up (shorter than WoP's 18 seconds, except for Nevermove)? I played the match up a couple of times as Karthus and I feel it's an annoying match up. It's easy to get outplayed as Karthus because Swain's spells are targeted. It reminds me of Karthus vs Vladimir, but much harder pre-6 and much easier post-6. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On November 18 2012 22:42 TheKefka wrote: I don't see the point in starting W unless you're going to invade or see a invade coming. I'd much rather have W for that level two gank than E, I always get it just to be safe incase of a lvl 2 lee sin gank or something retarded like that, that e wont save you from | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On November 18 2012 12:41 arb wrote: If you see Cass and youre going mid you better pray to whatever you believe in that shes awful as fuck. Because if she has a brain she'll take her long snake dick and stick up your feathered ass Trade E+Q with her Q>EE and then walk away. She can't chase after you or she just eats the entire amplified tether damage. Itemization on Swain is simple imo. You need RoA asap. After that, usually Zhonya's and a chalice (grail eventually) and then follow it up with whatever you need. More tankys? Grab SV or QSS depending on the amount of ignites. More damage? Build a hat. Heavy MR enemy team? Work on a Void Staff if you're not dying too fast. Also, if I'm losing lane or getting camped, I just build a chalice and try to sustain the lane the best I can, while working towards RoA after that. Really sucks for Swain, since if he doesn't win lane, he doesn't contribute much to a team overall. Swain doesn't have many bad matchups mid. Ori can break even and poke him safely. Ryze needs to farm the best the can, as he will slowly outscale and outdamage Swain. LB is a bitch early, but you build chalice and mercs and farm up RoA then laugh as she can't kill you ever again. I'd probably say Zyra has the best chance against him. She has enough range to kill him. Only thing to worry about is getting hit by his w. If you get hit by it below 75% health, you're a goner. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On November 20 2012 14:19 Cloud9157 wrote: Trade E+Q with her Q>EE and then walk away. She can't chase after you or she just eats the entire amplified tether damage. Itemization on Swain is simple imo. You need RoA asap. After that, usually Zhonya's and a chalice (grail eventually) and then follow it up with whatever you need. More tankys? Grab SV or QSS depending on the amount of ignites. More damage? Build a hat. Heavy MR enemy team? Work on a Void Staff if you're not dying too fast. Also, if I'm losing lane or getting camped, I just build a chalice and try to sustain the lane the best I can, while working towards RoA after that. Really sucks for Swain, since if he doesn't win lane, he doesn't contribute much to a team overall. Swain doesn't have many bad matchups mid. Ori can break even and poke him safely. Ryze needs to farm the best the can, as he will slowly outscale and outdamage Swain. LB is a bitch early, but you build chalice and mercs and farm up RoA then laugh as she can't kill you ever again. I'd probably say Zyra has the best chance against him. She has enough range to kill him. Only thing to worry about is getting hit by his w. If you get hit by it below 75% health, you're a goner. beating her before 6 isnt that bad imo, i beat one earlier infact(she wasnt very good i dont think tho) but trying to trade e+q with her when she gets 6 is just suicide. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On November 20 2012 15:32 arb wrote: beating her before 6 isnt that bad imo, i beat one earlier infact(she wasnt very good i dont think tho) but trying to trade e+q with her when she gets 6 is just suicide. Agreed. Cassie is a very reactive lane for me. How I build birdman is dependent on how the lane went pre-6. If I outrade her enough to zone her/kill her/get a gank, I'm usually fine with building catalyst straight away. But if we go even or she beats me, I usually grab mercs at the least, and even a chalice if it was that bad. I actually run health/5 yellows on Swain, so Cassie shouldn't be able to 100-0 me, and even have trouble killing me below 75% health if I have 2 of the 3: cata/mercs/chalice. Frankly, as long as you ult before she stuns, you should survive her damage, even with ignite going down on you. So yeah, slight advantage pre-6 for Swain imo, after that, it becomes Cassie's favor, but not enough to say Swain has no chance. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
Liandry's: the way this item is described just seems like it will have perfect synergy with an EQ combo. I'm thinking get an early Haunting Guise + Sorc Shoes to maximize your early game reign of terror, then finish the full item when you have decent mana + resists? Spirit Visage: big buff on this item seems like it will become great for Swain. 15%, 20% heal increase, big MR and a chunk of HP, looking mighty fine. Clarity: all depends on the numbers, but I think a % mana back will be really fucking good for Swain. Will be able to bait hard core "aha Swain is oom, time to go ham, oh shit CAWCAWCAW". Ohmwrecker: Swain likes Catalyst and he also like an early Chain Vest, so this item could be fun to play around with. Hourglass is overrated for Swain anyway (albeit still good). Tear: I think it will still be too hard to charge for it to be good for Swain, but who knows? If he can do it then a big shield + giant mana pool are obviously amazing for him. Anyone on PBE already done some playing around with these combos? | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
I think he's one champ that won't change that much with the new items. He's still going to need tons of mana, he's still going to have trouble charging Tear. Zhonya's will still be amazing. Athenes will still be blue-lite despite the nerf. Liandry's is the item he can really get huge milage out of, I think that will be a must buy at some point. I note that the passive has a half duration (not effect) on aoe and dot effects which shouldn't hurt him at all given you'll be constantly CAWCAW. New/old Deathfires is another possibility to shore up his lack of burst. Lich Bane might be another option given he'll regularly be in range for AAs. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Torment + DFG would be 18% of the target's max HP, 20% damage increase for everyone and 40 or 44% for him (depending on how they stack) for a bit less than 4s. Considering that Torment is basically 280 + AP damage by itself when accounting for its damage buff... and the fact that he'll heal 40/44% more from that target too through his ult, it's quite an interesting 1v1 item or tanky wrecker. But Swain's so hungry for costly items (RoA followed by deathcap/zhonya/new DFG is a NLR and at least 3K gold) that I have no idea how it'll work out. New SV may be better than Abyssal (or a good stacking opportunity if the jungler/other sololaner is an abyssal user himself) since it'll give around as much MR. | ||
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