|
So apparently alcohol makes me value my money less than normal, and I ended up buying a bunch of RP and spending it on completely random champions. Fiora being one of them, I decided to give her a try and hey it turns out she's fun as hell.
Her kit is kinda neat and follows the duelist theme nicely. Maxing Q first keeps the lunge at around the same dmg as an AA, which is pretty lame. IMO it makes sense to spend points on spicier skills and leave Q as a gap closer/mild escape.
So do I max W or E? Split points between them? If so, when? I prefer to let spreadsheets do the thinking for me!
Assumptions: +3 dmg mastery, 4 points in aspd mastery, no dmg items until lvl 7 at which point you return with double dorans. Fights are initiated with E and broken off when it ends so the dmg numbers below are restricted to the 3 seconds that E is active. Sometimes you can get that extra AA in, but I've rounded down to be conservative. No attack speed or damage runes are accounted for, and I've blown off armor pen completely.
+ Show Spoiler +LVL 4:
Skill Ranks: W2, E1
AAs during E: 3
DMG during E: 271 (381 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W1, E2
AAs during E: 3
DMG during E: 256 (316 w/ W proc)
^^ W wins, regardless of if the active gets proc'd.
+ Show Spoiler +LVL 5:
Skill Ranks: W3, E1
AAs during E: 3
DMG during E: 296 (456 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W2, E2
AAs during E: 3
DMG during E: 281 (391 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W1, E3
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 354 (414 w/ W proc)
^^ W wins if proc'd, E wins if not. Splitting points between them is worse than maxing.
+ Show Spoiler +LVL 7 (return with double dorans):
Skill Ranks: W4, E1
AAs during E: 3
DMG during E: 390 (600 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W3, E2
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 500 (660 w/ W proc)
^^ Notice the tick up from 3 AAs to 4, with only a 2nd point in E. Big change from the LVL 5 stats.
Skill Ranks: W2, E3
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 480 (590 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W1, E4
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 460 (520 w/ W proc)
+ Show Spoiler +LVL 9:
Skill Ranks: W5, E2
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 565 (825 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W4, E3
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 545 (755 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W3, E4
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 525 (685 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W2, E5
AAs during E: 5
DMG during E: 632 (742 w/ W proc)
^^ Need all 5 points in E to tick up to 5 AAs, does the investment pay off? Maxing W first will leave you at 4 AAs per E until level 13.
IMO it makes the most sense to go QWEWWRE, then R>W>E>Q. I think starting WQE is a-okay too, your opening skills are match dependant. I know spreadsheets better than I know LoL, so please let me know if I'm an idiot.
Here's the math: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AooWM5Hr3dETdGRfYllObUxHVWNpTE8ybE8tUFF3T0E
|
I like Q first for the lower CD gap closer and it makes nice harass in lane. Then I like to max E so I have the steroid when fights break out. I only get one point in W because while the instant 15 free AD is awesome, it's only 5 more per level, and you only need one point in the skill for the AA nullification in a trade. Q has higher base damage anyway.
|
The lower CD on Q is nice, but just from playing around it seems that each lunge takes the same amount of time as an AA, so until higher ranks it doesn't actually add any extra damage when spammed in a fight. Also, if I combo each time it comes off CD, I tend to run out of mana faster than I'd like. If you have 4 seconds to use the free 2nd Q, that's enough time to Q E W AA AA AA, then Q back out. Playstyle differences are a factor here, as is my lack of skill and experience, haha.
|
On July 16 2012 03:23 nmbr wrote:
The lower CD on Q is nice, but just from playing around it seems that each lunge takes the same amount of time as an AA, so until higher ranks it doesn't actually add any extra damage when spammed in a fight. Also, if I combo each time it comes off CD, I tend to run out of mana faster than I'd like. If you have 4 seconds to use the free 2nd Q, that's enough time to Q E W AA AA AA, then Q back out. Playstyle differences are a factor here, as is my lack of skill and experience, haha.
Not sure how much of the OP you read but I'll help either way. Always nice to see someone enjoy Fiora 
Personally my skills in lane would go QWWEWR and then max R > W > E > Q. You don't use the Q for the damage, though it helps. You use it to either:
1) Close gap/escape
2) Stack up Burst of Speed (as Lunge DOES give a stack of the movespeed both times) which in turn is also used to close gap/escape
Having a gap closer on a shorter CD could have perks, but mainly to harass. For straight combat purposes, having W maxed is essential as it adds a ridiculous amount of AA damage for just a skill. The counter-attack part isn't that bad either, as it blocks some damage skills (Ezreal's Q comes to mind, though I haven't actually tested to see if it really counters this)
|
United States3977 Posts
What you max first depends on lane matchups. Sometimes it doesn't matter, but there are some where you need the repositionability of Q to be up faster.
In general, max E first in a lane where you have to go all in on trades.
Max Q first in a lane where you need to dash around a lot (i.e. dodging skillshots or fighting someone you can't win straight trades with).
Max W first in a lane where you trade a few blows and disengage.
|
does anyone still play this ho? been playing her a bit, I'm gonna start going something like wriggles wits. the tanky builds don't do anything and BF sword is impossibly expensive vs typical lane-crusher top lane heroes
|
I see her every now and again. She is insane as a niche pick. The amount of roflstomp she can lay on certain champs is scary. Plus her ult gives her teamfight presence
|
who would these champs be that she can roflstomp? i've only been playing fiora jungle, but i've wanted to try her out mid or top as a counterpick for a while now
|
United States3977 Posts
She beats GP pretty hard. I think she can beat Darius. I've beaten Jax a few times, but it's very close and a better Jax might take it. Rumble you win unless he has full armor runes. In general, she does well against squishy dudes and people who rely on making it hard to disengage. Her list is pretty similar to Wukong, only she's squishier and is even better at disengage/heal up.
Mid she beats people without point and click CC as long as you keep your mindgames, but she's really fragile if you fail. People who have dodgeable ults are also pretty ez pickings.
On November 03 2012 13:34 UniversalSnip wrote:
does anyone still play this ho? been playing her a bit, I'm gonna start going something like wriggles wits. the tanky builds don't do anything and BF sword is impossibly expensive vs typical lane-crusher top lane heroes
Don't get Wit's End, it's a waste of her godlike AD scaling.
There are a few general positions the game can be in:
You're stomping lane - prepare to stomp teamfights. Bloodthirster GA.
You're even in lane - cheap efficient AD items as appropriate (e.g. Hexdrinker vs a magic damage champ, Brutalizer vs a squishy chump, etc.)
You're behind in lane - if tower is still up , get as much tank as you have to so that you can't get dunked/dived. Preferably attached to some damage as well - Hexdunker again, DBlades, etc. If tower's down, buy wards, ward your jungle, and farm until BT/GA.
|
On November 03 2012 16:11 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
who would these champs be that she can roflstomp? i've only been playing fiora jungle, but i've wanted to try her out mid or top as a counterpick for a while now
WoD claims she can beat Nidalee.
Playing her mid is probably more fun though :3
|
fiora is hilarious mid
i got stomped as ziggs vs a fiora because she just comboed me at level 6 at like 80-90% hp 1shot gg
|
Fiora works well mid and bot the only reason she's good vsnid is because nids a lot like a ranged ad until level 6.
|
On November 03 2012 16:31 Tooplark wrote:
Her list is pretty similar to Wukong, only she's squishier and is even better at disengage/heal up.
He has no sustain, better burst again tankier targets and a much lower sustained dps, how can you say they're good against similar champs? ôo They don't work the same way (well Fiora's still better at short trades because of steroid's duration and only needs to stack passive 4 times, so the sustained dps gap is less important I guess).
|
United States3977 Posts
On November 03 2012 23:50 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 16:31 Tooplark wrote:
Her list is pretty similar to Wukong, only she's squishier and is even better at disengage/heal up. He has no sustain, better burst again tankier targets and a much lower sustained dps, how can you say they're good against similar champs? ôo They don't work the same way (well Fiora's still better at short trades because of steroid's duration and only needs to stack passive 4 times, so the sustained dps gap is less important I guess).
Fiora's sustain is not incredible and Wukong's sustained dps is not bad thanks to the aspd buff on his E. Both have an easy way of dashing in, an easy way of dashing out, More important is the playstyle: hit things harder than they can hit back, as frequently as possible, then run away when the trade is unfavorable. While Wukong fares better against armor stacking, it's still going to hugely cut his damage. The differences in their stomplist mainly reflect either one of the disengages being impractical or one of the ults being less useful.
While their lategame roles and items are very different, in lane they play fairly similarly.
|
Well you talked about Darius and actually Wukong has no way to go out of him because of pull+slow.
Wukong can't disengage easily against AoE and targeted slows because unless you press E before they cast you'll still be slowed while stealthed. Using W every trade tend to put a big dent on his manapool too, whereas the second Q for Fiora is free.
She needs a target to dash too to disengage, though.
|
On November 03 2012 13:34 UniversalSnip wrote:
does anyone still play this ho? been playing her a bit, I'm gonna start going something like wriggles wits. the tanky builds don't do anything and BF sword is impossibly expensive vs typical lane-crusher top lane heroes
Play her mid lane. Or bot lane with like Leona/Alistar/Blitzcrank. You win bot lane against most AD/support combos that aren't organized (i.e., if your opponents aren't duo queue you can probably win the lane if you play smart). She eats AD carries during early and mid game.
In mid lane you have very few bad match ups if you press your pre-6 advantage since you out damage like every mid laner pre-6 (and out damage a lot of them post 6). Just don't fall into the trap of "max W always," lots of lanes Fiora max Q is better. In some lanes max E is better. You fall off a bit late game because you're melee but if your team has good initiation you're really threatening late game too.
Maw, BT, IE, LW, Ghostblade, and even PD all work on well on her. After like two damage items you typically build GA.
|
2x Dorans > BT > GA is probably standard build.
Situational items include: brutalizer, phage, hexdrinker, wriggles, last whisper.
|
WARNING: Untested 1300 theorycraft incoming.
Fiora is in a unique position itemwise in that she has naturally high attackspeed (E) and high base AD (W). Obviously her AD caster-y (burst) nature means that AD is valuable, but she really has more room to branch out into the other attack multipliers (ArPen and Crit). In addition, her theoretical DPS from her E is really constrained by the practical concerns of sticking on a target - even someone walking away from her really limits her E damage.
Thus, *relative to other bruisers/top lane physical champs* I think that LW rush or Bruta is strong (she's all physical, and has high base AD) and that IE and the crit damage mastery may be more useful on her than on most tops. In particular, Pickaxe builds into 3 items that seem like strong first or second option items - LW, Cutlass, and IE.
I'm gonna test this personally soon now that the end of season 1500 dream is dead for me and I'll branch champs out more, but Cutlass seems really strong in terms of having a huge damage upside by holding people in place for E that it doesn't on other champions. Also Cutlass -> IE or Cutlass -> LW may provide a lot of efficient DPS that many other champs wouldn't get the same punch from. GA still awesome as a defensive item.
Of course, the standard BT>GA may still be best, but I think Fiora's quirks lend her toward some 'unorthodox' builds.
|
Cutlass doesn't build into anything later in the game though. Maybe in season 3 after the item overhaul. As is, I'd rather build Executioner's Calling for 18% life steal. Fiora doesn't really have many issues sticking to people due to the MS boost from E, the nature of her double Q, and the fact that her ult has some range and lands her on top of her opponent. I wouldn't recommend doing a LW rush but Bruta rush can be strong if you're laning against a low armor target. LW is only better than Bruta+your ArmPen runes against high armored targets and high armor targets are very unlikely that early into the game.
BT definitely not as required as some people make it out to be. Fiora is just as much an AD caster as she is as auto attacker. So yeah, you can get just vamp scepter by itself for lane sustain or build something like Exec or Wriggle and then go straight into IE.
Fiora is cool because she has a lot of different build and skill order options unlike 95% of the champions in this game. What you build and what you skill is entirely determined by your opposing laner and the opposing team's composition.
|
lol
i play fiora top all the time
i consider her an ad carry, so i build ad items on her (i stay away from bruiser builds on fiora, she's much scarier with ad items)
generally get phage -> BT -> LW/some defensive item -> situational items
you stay back then jump onto enemy ranged ad carries = gg
wriggles is situationally good on fiora
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
