EPTAlso, where do you start?
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Also (2) spirit lizard + cdr boots + bruta + cdr mastery = lol.
[Champion] Fiora - Page 6
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
Also, where do you start? + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14223 Posts
I wouldn't really trust my team to survive without help for 15 minutes but shes really good for pub stomps and tryhard xj9 stylers. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
And why max W first, just because of extra attack damage? Some builds actually say to max W last and max Q first for its extra CDR and damage. Lastly, why have I never seen her before in a tournament game... ;/ | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
She's not a ganky jungler, especially early game. She can pull off one really nasty gank at level 4 with 2 levels in E and blue/red on, but other than that you basically farm up mad+boots+tiamat as fast as possible and then you have all the time in the world to control the game because you clear your jungle in 30 seconds flat. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23470 Posts
tiamat is still a gimmicky item and probably not worth buying you'll do more ulting isolated squishy targets than trying to AoE a bunch of people down | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Agreed that Tiamat is gimmicky. The interaction between Tiamat and ult isn't enough to justify getting it instead of, say, Bloodthirster, unless either a) you're splitpushing hard or b) your team is really silly and is running Orianna + Diana or something. Fiora wants as much attack damage and lifesteal as she can get, maybe some armor pen, definitely some %pen later in the game, and survivability (ideally GA). | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On February 15 2013 04:57 Tooplark wrote: I personally think the ult is best used like Meditate, if Meditate made you completely untargetable, did tons of damage, and put you next to someone after it was over. Agreed that Tiamat is gimmicky. The interaction between Tiamat and ult isn't enough to justify getting it instead of, say, Bloodthirster, unless either a) you're splitpushing hard or b) your team is really silly and is running Orianna + Diana or something. Fiora wants as much attack damage and lifesteal as she can get, maybe some armor pen, definitely some %pen later in the game, and survivability (ideally GA). IMO BOTRK > Bloodthirster. You're unlikely to build crit, your Q has a pretty low AD ratio but puts you in a position to immediately autoattack, the active gives you an additional form of sticking power when Burst of Speed wears off, and Blade waltz will hit with the full power of BOTRK Passive 5 times, allowing you to regain a LOT of health when you ulti. If you're not going for Hydra out of the Vamp Scepter, go for BOTRK. | ||
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On February 14 2013 11:23 rhs408 wrote: Been trying Fiora a bit during free week as well, seems to be very strong. Quick question, do people just get hydra on her just because it makes her ult do aoe damage? And why max W first, just because of extra attack damage? Some builds actually say to max W last and max Q first for its extra CDR and damage. Lastly, why have I never seen her before in a tournament game... ;/ Your skill order is completely dependent on the lane you're against. In lanes against ranged or really squishy targets I'd max Q (against squishy melee you might be better off maxing E). In lane against say Darius you max E because maxing E lets you out duel Darius (since E is probably the best dueling spell in the game). I typically get a point in W early and maybe a second point after I get ult but Q is way better for lane bullying and harassing while E helps you win trades a lot more than W. Level 1 W grants you 15 AD though so you really do want a point in W at level 1 or 2 (if I midlane Fiora I usually get Q at level 1 because you rape most APs at level 1 with Q). Hydra is kind of gimmicky as was mentioned but late game I'll sometimes pick one up anyways because the extra lifesteal/AD is nice and the passive really does synchronize well with your ult (it also lets you split push like a maniac late game). Plus I've always loved Tiamat. If you're still playing her in a lot of games you've likely discovered why she doesn't get run in tournaments. An organized team can shut her down really hard. You can get fed and still have a limited impact in team fights if the enemy team plays it well. With that said I think that against low CC teams she's really strong so the only time you'd see her in a tournament game is as a last pick against a low CC team in my opinion. | ||
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
Once you've done that twice, you're probably ahead enough you can start stomping lanes. I really don't like the attitude that every jungler has to have amazing early clear, super strong early ganks and so on. That's one kind of jungler, usually with attendant drawbacks (unless you're xin XD). Every game I've played vs xin, the most OP as heck early game jungler, I've stomped him. He ends up 3 kills ahead but 10 big creeps down on me by 15 minutes, and after I get to tiamat I end up doubling his CS and kills by 30 minutes. She scales so strongly it's just not even funny. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
On March 05 2013 07:08 Thereisnosaurus wrote: Yeah, I really don't get the hate. I mean, she's not like a Vi or shyvana, clearin them camps in five seconds at level 1, but she's as solid as a lot of other junglers. Very red buff dependent early for ganks, but you don't pick her into a comp that depends on heavy early lane pressure, you pick her on a comp that can hold their lanes and support your counterjungling, because fiora with madreds and level 3 burst of speed can clear a big creep with one skill in less than three seconds, then get the hell out presto. Whenever a xin or whathaveyou ganks, you take half their jungle and get another 150 gold and experience, deny them the same amount. So they only end up even if their gank succeeds, and they end up behind on XP regardless. If the gank fails or trades, you get about a kill's advantage without ever having to stick your head in a lane. Once you've done that twice, you're probably ahead enough you can start stomping lanes. I really don't like the attitude that every jungler has to have amazing early clear, super strong early ganks and so on. That's one kind of jungler, usually with attendant drawbacks (unless you're xin XD). Every game I've played vs xin, the most OP as heck early game jungler, I've stomped him. He ends up 3 kills ahead but 10 big creeps down on me by 15 minutes, and after I get to tiamat I end up doubling his CS and kills by 30 minutes. She scales so strongly it's just not even funny. Well, I'd have to argue that counterjungling, especially counterjungling a gank-heavy jungler, doesn't actually deny them significant farm unless you're stealing a buff. Due to short respawn times, I pretty much just go "meh" whenever I see some of my creeps are missing. The other advantage to gank-heavy junglers is swinging lanes. A successful gank doesn't just get the jungler gold and experience - it gets the laner gold and experience, as well as giving them better control of their lane. Furthermore, the greater threat of ganks adds a hidden pressure to ALL the lanes. The net effect of the lane control and map control provided by a strong jungler is that your laners can farm more and deny farm to the opposing laners. Of course, it's possible to pick your team in order to minimize or even remove this disadvantage, but I don't think it's worth it. Fiora has a hard enough time carrying when she's dominating her lane; putting her into jungle, dropping her first 1k on madreds, and relying on controlling enemy buffs is very risky. | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
as you say, ganking has its merits, and fiora can do that too. She's incredibly dangerous against someone who's pushed up or overconfident after getting a gank from their own jungler, I'm not saying don't gank at all, just that your time is better spent roaming their jungle taking big creeps than waiting patiently for gank opportunities. Especially in soloque, if you play like this people get cocky and soon enough you don't need to wait around to make plays, they just happen of their own accord. Also, I honestly think her jungle farm is better than her lane farm. There aren't many lanes where a fiora can get optimal CS either because she has to be very careful of her opponent or because she's constantly trading and having to go back regularly due to low mana. In the jungle I frequently keep up with the mid and top laners and even get ahead of them if I get FB on someone with a level 4 doublebuff gank. I get a lot of complaints that I don't gank enough, but I rarely lose games when I play her simply because I end up outscaling the enemy team hard and being able to take two turrets and an inhib in the time it takes the enemy team to siege down an outer turret 5v4, then come in behind them for the ace after they've dived the turret under the pressure. I totally admit Fiora is not a team player, she's a nidalee or a teemo style champ who primarily wins games through disruption and harassment. This in no way makes her bad, just different. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On March 05 2013 11:03 Tooplark wrote: Well, I'd have to argue that counterjungling, especially counterjungling a gank-heavy jungler, doesn't actually deny them significant farm unless you're stealing a buff. Due to short respawn times, I pretty much just go "meh" whenever I see some of my creeps are missing. The other advantage to gank-heavy junglers is swinging lanes. A successful gank doesn't just get the jungler gold and experience - it gets the laner gold and experience, as well as giving them better control of their lane. Furthermore, the greater threat of ganks adds a hidden pressure to ALL the lanes. The net effect of the lane control and map control provided by a strong jungler is that your laners can farm more and deny farm to the opposing laners. Of course, it's possible to pick your team in order to minimize or even remove this disadvantage, but I don't think it's worth it. Fiora has a hard enough time carrying when she's dominating her lane; putting her into jungle, dropping her first 1k on madreds, and relying on controlling enemy buffs is very risky. What you really want to do when you're trying to be a big counterjungler, is fight the enemy jungler in their jungle. That basically says to your team "fear no ganks for the next (1-2) minutes" depending on how successful you are. It also sets them behind. But I'm not sure Fiora is strong enough of a duelist to do this, especially with potential laner interference. Example: Can a doublebuff Level3 Fiora really beat a doublebuff level3 Xin in his own jungle? Do you have enough health after clearing your own red? If you're both full health and have a razor and level 4, who wins? What if you went earlier (level 2?) and tried to fight him at his red? What if you start his red and he shows up? | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
Spreadsheets Here I make the assumption of a Dorans/Longsword on Fiora, rather then a fort pot start (makes AD runes even less worth) or some other start. It's also included with a general AD rune vs ArPen rune comparison spreadsheet (second one: if you want to view it, download the whole thing), standard, with brut, with LW, and with both. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23470 Posts
however assuming every fiora player is an elite fliora theorycraft master is another thing coming nobody plays fiora so people just pick whatever rune page is lying around when they do | ||
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