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I can't believe no one else has made a thread about this beast. I just picked her up not too long ago and I must say, I am enjoying her more than any character I've played. So without further ado, I give you...
Fiora, the Grand Duelist
![[image loading]](http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/February_2012/2012_02_24_fiora_reveal/fiora-base-painting_thumb.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler [Patch Notes] +1.0.0.135
Released
1.0.0.136
Fixed a bug where Fiora could consume the second cast of Lunge on the original target while still moving toward the original target.
+ Show Spoiler [Stats] +Damage 54.5 (+3.2 / per level)
Health 450 (+85 / per level)
Mana 220 (+40 / per level)
Move Speed 325
Armor 15 (+3.5 / per level)
Spell Block 30 (+1.25 / per level)
Health Regen 5.5 (+0.8 / per level)
Mana Regen 6.75 (+0.5 / per level)
Skills:
![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/spell/114-5.png) Duelist
Fiora regenerates health over 6 seconds each time she deals damage. Striking champions will cause this effect to stack up to 4 times.
It's in the name, she's a duelist, she can use this passive to sustain herself in lane early and even get a slight regeneration later on.
![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/spell/114-1.png) Lunge
Fiora dashes forward to strike her target, dealing physical damage. Fiora can perform the dash a second time within a couple seconds at no mana cost.
Fiora dashes forward to strike her target, dealing 40/65/90/115/140 (+) physical damage.
Fiora can perform the dash a second time within 4 seconds at no mana cost.
Costs 60 mana. 600 range.
This skill is useful in several ways. It can be used as a tool to help last hitting, a chasing skill, added damage, increasing movespeed through Burst of Speed, and sometimes escaping by dashing to minions. This skill along with Burst of Speed almost guarantees no enemy can escape in a 1v1 without the aid of an ally or turret. Take it at level 3 or 4 and then max it last.
![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/spell/114-2.png) Riposte
Fiora's Attack Damage is increased. When activated, Fiora parries the next basic attack and reflects magic damage back to the attacker. Works against champions, monsters, and large minions.
Passive: Fiora's Attack Damage is increased by 15/20/25/30/35.
Active: Fiora parries the next basic attack within 1.5 seconds and reflects 60/110/160/210/260 (+1) magic damage back to the attacker. Works against champions, monsters, and large minions.
Costs 40 mana to activate.
This is what really makes Fiora dangerous -- not only does it give her an added advantage versus AD champions or enemies with on-next-hit spells, it also adds a significant amount of AD for early game, making last hitting and dueling (which is her specialty of course) much easier. Take it at level 1 and max it ASAP.
![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/spell/114-3.png) Burst of Speed
Fiora temporarily gains additional Attack Speed. Each basic attack or Lunge she lands during this time increases her Movement Speed. Killing a champion refreshes the cooldown on Burst of Speed.
Fiora gains 60/75/90/105/120% additional Attack Speed for 3 seconds. Each basic attack or Lunge she lands during this time increases her Movement Speed by 7/9/11/13/15% for 3 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.
Killing a champion refreshes the cooldown on Burst of Speed. (Assists reduce the cooldown by half of the base amount.)
Costs 55 mana.
This skill acts as both a chasing ability and a damage steroid. Without this up you don't have much of a chance of winning early game fights, so you want to make sure only to use this once you are sure you can benefit from its effects. The movement speed it provides makes the attack speed all the more useful, as you can actually make use of the extra hits on fleeing targets. You can also use it in coordination with Lunge to quickly build up 21-45% movement speed, through a Lunge-hit-Lunge combo. This will allow you to stay on target much more easily.
![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/spell/114-4.png) Blade Waltz
Fiora dashes around the battlefield to deal physical damage to enemy champions. Successive strikes against the same target deal less damage.
Fiora dashes around the battlefield striking random champions 5 times for 160/330/500 (+) physical damage. Successive strikes against the same target deal 25% damage.
The first and last attack will be against the same target. Each strike applies on-hit effects.
Costs 100 mana. 400 range to initate the ability.
For those of you who have played DotA, this is Omnislash. This is what allows Fiora to dominate 1v1, as even if you and your opponent are on equal footing or even if they have a slight advantage, you become completely invincible during the duration of this ability, and they are unable to stop you from continuing to hit them in any way. Even turrets can't fire at you in this ability, so you can safely tower dive single enemies to finish them off with this (disclaimer: I am not to be held responsible for any tower diving failures).
There's also the matter of the gimmick Tiamat build that makes this ability's strikes hit multiple champions, but that's a rare occurance and not reliable at all. We won't speak of that again...
The Strategy
Fiora has no actual means of CC, so her damage has to come from sheer force and speed, which her abilities do quite nicely. To take full advantage of this, top lane would be best. Opponents without reliable CC will be especially easy to defeat, as Fiora should win a straight up fight with nearly any top lane champion without CC. If you want to jungle or disagree with this build, suggest your own! I've added other build/lane suggestions below my own in the spoiler tagged "Other Build Suggestions".
Items
![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/item/1001.png) ![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/item/2003.png)
OR
![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/item/1029.png)
Really the beginning items all just depend on whether or not your lane opponent is going to be doing a decent chunk of physical damage to you. If they are, then take the cloth armor to make absolutely sure you can defeat them. If you are facing a strong physical opponent, then the cloth armor can be turned into Ninja Tabi. If you start boots+3, then either Tabi or Mercury's Treads based on what seems more useful.
![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/item/3154.png) ![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/item/3031.png) ![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/item/3071.png) ![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/item/3035.png) ![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/item/3142.png)
OR
![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/item/3072.png) ![[image loading]](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/game_data/1.0.0.140/content/item/3026.png)
+ Show Spoiler [Other Build Suggestions] +On June 23 2012 14:02 Tooplark wrote:
Defensive runes/masteries, offensive items. Also, probably the champ who benefits the most from cleanse.
Don't buy Warmogs on Fiora (except maybe very situationally). She doesn't benefit a lot from health compared to others.
First, lifesteal is a great substitute for health on someone who does as much autoattack (and ult) damage as her. Consider that a vampiric scepter is 32/66/100 + .24*AD health back just from ult, worst case, plus some back for each auto you land, and it scales with more deeps.
Second, you like resists. In lane, your passive gives you lots of healing. Once you have lifesteal, you have lots of healing.
Don't go super glass cannon. Infinity Edge is pretty hard to fit in your build unless you are rollin in da brozouf. Wriggles or Hexdrinker should be your first buy, followed by BF Sword into Black Cleaver or Bloodthirster. Upgrade Hexdrinker, buy GA. You now have a solid core of resists and lots of DPS/1v1 potential, plus tons of free healing in fights. It's a very fine balance between being tanky enough to not die before reaching your target and doing enough deeps to dunk your target once you get there. On July 08 2012 09:52 Vaporized wrote:
for jungle i go atk spd reds, armor yellow, mres blue, armpen quints. summoners get smite and exhaust (exhaust is crucial). start cloth 5 and open w. this setup is amazing at lvl 1. you get atk speed, +15 ad from w, cloth armor, and armor pen.
start wolves then blue (i ask for a leash every game no matter what jungler im playing, fiora is no different). i like the standard wraiths, wolves, red, wraiths, golems lvl 4 path. and oftentimes you will have pots left over at the end. skill order is w-e-w-q, then r-w-e-q. maxing e first is a huge mistake in the jungle.
for ganks i like to start at lvl 4 with red buff and boots. depending on the angle and how pushed your opponent is you can either lead off with a q to close the gap, or even better is running up on them and then using q to catch up when the enemy flashes. if you are smart about how you use your skills here you can easily get a kill. use w if they turn to attack you, an e-q-q combo with red + exhaust is often enough to let you auto a few times and get a kill. it also never gets old when someone kills themselves off a w proc.
at lvl 6 ganking becomes a lot more interesting. you can dive very effectively with your ult. use your e-q-q combo to hopefully get them down around 1/3 health and then ult and you will get the kill. one other thing ive found useful is if a big fight is going on bot lane and low health enemies are heading back to their tower you can run in and ult them (ask your lane to push minions if at all possible), and hopefully get a double kill.
i get the same items every game: cloth, boots, wriggles, hog, merc treads, black cleaver. the wriggles is the big one there. you want to finish madreds ASAP as it lets you clear absurdly fast. and as soon as you finish wriggles you can go straight to dragon and solo it (at lvl 7 is possible with 2-3 potions, lvl 8 you might need 1 potion, you will have lvl 2 e which helps a lot). once you get wriggles then fiora suddenly becomes the invade threat, you kill camps so fast.
the rest of the item build is situational. just get whatever you need. if you are getting blown up get frozen mallet, more sustain get bt, more damage get ie or pd. if i need resists i get randuins or force of nature.
also of note is fiora's split pushing ability. fiora kills towers comically fast. there was one game where the whole enemy team was pushing down bot. i pushed down their 2nd top tower and their 3rd tower + inhib, and my team was able to defend our inhib with the turrets help. that play basically won us the game. once i played that game i take advantage of this whenever possible. if a lane is losing then run in when the enemy goes back and kill the turret asap. this lets your laner roam, or at the least get out of a bad lane, and also gives you a lane to go farm guilt free when possible.
thats how i do it. she brings a lot of interesting things to the table, like amazing split pushing, absurd damage all game long, and early dragon control that imo balance out her lack of cc or tankiness. the sports analogy 'the best defense is a good offense' i think applies to fiora quite well. if the enemy is dead then you dont have to cc or tank anything.
edit: i forgot matchups. i only pick fiora if i know what their jungler is. shyv, mundo, udyr, trundle are all bad matchups. against those guys i like to pick one of the others (or skarner) so at least i can keep up. any other jungler i found fiora does fine. even shyv is actually doable, you can kill her at low lvls, but it can be obnoxious. mundo i either ban if im first pick and want to play fiora, or i just pick shyv myself if the other guy picks mundo. ive never actually jungled fiora against mundo but i just dont see it working out for fiora at all. fiora's first clear is not the fastest or the slowest, you can hit 4 at 3:50-4:00, and from then on you just wreck the jungle so fast, including possibly the fastest buff golem kill times of any champ once you get madreds/wriggles.
one last point: in champ select or in a premade team get either top or support to pick a good tank like malph, ali, or leona. if there is one thing fiora does not do it is tank.
Which build I go usually depends on the level of my farm early on. If I can afford a B.F. Sword when I return to base, I'll go for the second build and opt out of buying Wriggle's. However, if I'm having trouble, I'll get Wriggle's first instead in order to try and get sustain and turn the tide.
Fiora is best played as glass cannon and not like a bruiser, simply because her main role late game is to dash through the fight and use Blade Waltz to lock onto the ranged AD carry or the powerful mage(s) and deal as much damage as possible while it cannot be stopped. If you can successfully assassinate the mage/carry, then the fight is essentially 5v4 already as the enemy cannot stop your ultimate.
If you don't kill them with your ultimate, the last strike always hits the target that you initially casted it on, so you will already be in melee range of the target and can activate Burst of Speed and Riposte to attempt to finish them. This is why you should build for max damage; you want to burst the enemy as hard as possible. You don't want to fight tanky bruisers or initiators if they have backup, as you'll take too long to defeat them. Kill the carry/mage(s) and let your team deal with the beefier champs.
So with this said, go out to the Fields of Justice and have some grand duels!
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Although the items you are building are good, it is overall too squishy really. Glass cannon melee builds don't work, and never have worked. (With the exception of say, tryndamere). If you're jumping on the ranged AD, you absolutely don't need 4 damage items to do that. You can easily build items like wits end, guardian angel, hexdrinker/malmortius aegis etc as needed.
I always try to make my builds have somewhat of sense. It usually follows a them of high resists and lifesteal, but If I get wits end I kinda want madreds bloodrazer and If I'm going ghostblade I want stuff like maybe a BT and or wriggles with a BC perhaps.
And no, last item GA doesn't count as a tank item, since most games will be over before you reach that point, and ranged ADs who are the squishiest in any teamfight build it last.
I mean the whole concept of ranged AD is sitting back and hitting tanks with these damage items, the fact that you're diving in AND are already melee just makes the build seem stupid. Sure you can hurt with your first bladewaltz but you realistically need some defensive items to do anything after that. You'll still do good damage but you won't instadie against coordinated teams. Fiora is good at escapign at low hp with her E movement speed buff.
Also fiora is by far the most flexible champion for skilling points. I have went every lane and role with her and often I put 3 in everything lol. I like the few early points in W say bot lane against an AD, and if you're dominating you simply want more in Q and E for bursting and towerdiving with ult. Max W in jungle or mid isn't that good either, in jungle probably E first is best (she's bad jungle though) and mid Q first is probably best.
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It's also worth noting that the cooldown on Lunge goes from 16 sec to 8 sec if you max it. On some matchups (vs. ranged harassers, for example) you should probably level it earlier than with your final points.
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i jungle fiora from time to time. max w, then e. get wriggles and go get dragon. i like her too, but she could use some love imo.
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As Shurelia demonstrated, Fiora probably is better off playing mid instead.
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She's pretty good bot as well.
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On June 14 2012 20:48 Slayer91 wrote:
Although the items you are building are good, it is overall too squishy really. Glass cannon melee builds don't work, and never have worked. (With the exception of say, tryndamere). If you're jumping on the ranged AD, you absolutely don't need 4 damage items to do that. You can easily build items like wits end, guardian angel, hexdrinker/malmortius aegis etc as needed.
I always try to make my builds have somewhat of sense. It usually follows a them of high resists and lifesteal, but If I get wits end I kinda want madreds bloodrazer and If I'm going ghostblade I want stuff like maybe a BT and or wriggles with a BC perhaps.
And no, last item GA doesn't count as a tank item, since most games will be over before you reach that point, and ranged ADs who are the squishiest in any teamfight build it last.
I mean the whole concept of ranged AD is sitting back and hitting tanks with these damage items, the fact that you're diving in AND are already melee just makes the build seem stupid. Sure you can hurt with your first bladewaltz but you realistically need some defensive items to do anything after that. You'll still do good damage but you won't instadie against coordinated teams. Fiora is good at escapign at low hp with her E movement speed buff.
Also fiora is by far the most flexible champion for skilling points. I have went every lane and role with her and often I put 3 in everything lol. I like the few early points in W say bot lane against an AD, and if you're dominating you simply want more in Q and E for bursting and towerdiving with ult. Max W in jungle or mid isn't that good either, in jungle probably E first is best (she's bad jungle though) and mid Q first is probably best.
If you could suggest a good build+strat for jungle/mid Fiora, I'll gladly add that in and try it out myself. I just wrote this on my own experience which is top. Also, my glass cannon build has worked fine for me, of course no build is an end-all be-all so it has its disadvantages, but I find that in this meta I can just dash to the back and easily eliminate the main threats in a fight, and at that point even if I die as well my team still ends up being ahead. Also, the GA wasn't meant as a tank item but more to get back up and get a quick Lunge+AA+Lunge in to attempt to finish off anyone that's weak from my combo/my team.
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On June 15 2012 04:25 Slayer91 wrote:
She's pretty good bot as well.
A few weeks ago I was duoing with my friend bot lane Fiora/Taric. Many early first bloods 
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On June 17 2012 08:27 Hyren wrote:A few weeks ago I was duoing with my friend bot lane Fiora/Taric. Many early first bloods
Honest question:
is there any reason to take Fiora in these sorts of kill lanes over, say, Jarvan or Pantheon? I don't really play her, thus I'm not sure how exactly she is supposed to scale into mid- and late game. To me, it seems like Pantheon would be a much stronger threat in these sorts of lanes because he doesn't rely on being in autoattack range as much and simply has the higher burst up until lvl 6. With Jarvan, it's the same, but I'd say his lvl 6 is stronger than hers because his R is more reliable. Also, I'd rather have him over the other two instead of an AD carry (assuming you didn't send an AD top/mid) because of his peeling capabilities in teamfights.
What does she bring to the table others don't? Is it the possibility to basically instagib their AD if you hit your first Q on them once you reach a certain item level?
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any1 knows how much her passive heals in 1v1 fight? And also what skill sequence to spam in 1v1?
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..That would depend on your attack speed, the length of the fight and the amount your passive heals per second at each stack
Skill sequence? Use all your stuff when it's off CD.
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On June 17 2012 19:52 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 08:27 Hyren wrote:On June 15 2012 04:25 Slayer91 wrote:
She's pretty good bot as well. A few weeks ago I was duoing with my friend bot lane Fiora/Taric. Many early first bloods Honest question: is there any reason to take Fiora in these sorts of kill lanes over, say, Jarvan or Pantheon? I don't really play her, thus I'm not sure how exactly she is supposed to scale into mid- and late game. To me, it seems like Pantheon would be a much stronger threat in these sorts of lanes because he doesn't rely on being in autoattack range as much and simply has the higher burst up until lvl 6. With Jarvan, it's the same, but I'd say his lvl 6 is stronger than hers because his R is more reliable. Also, I'd rather have him over the other two instead of an AD carry (assuming you didn't send an AD top/mid) because of his peeling capabilities in teamfights. What does she bring to the table others don't? Is it the possibility to basically instagib their AD if you hit your first Q on them once you reach a certain item level?
If you can get an early BF sword at around level 7-9, especially if you level Q+W instead of W+E, your ult+Q+Q combo will likely instantly kill them or at least put them at a very critical health.
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On June 18 2012 16:25 Duskbane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 19:52 Shiv. wrote:On June 17 2012 08:27 Hyren wrote:On June 15 2012 04:25 Slayer91 wrote:
She's pretty good bot as well. A few weeks ago I was duoing with my friend bot lane Fiora/Taric. Many early first bloods Honest question: is there any reason to take Fiora in these sorts of kill lanes over, say, Jarvan or Pantheon? I don't really play her, thus I'm not sure how exactly she is supposed to scale into mid- and late game. To me, it seems like Pantheon would be a much stronger threat in these sorts of lanes because he doesn't rely on being in autoattack range as much and simply has the higher burst up until lvl 6. With Jarvan, it's the same, but I'd say his lvl 6 is stronger than hers because his R is more reliable. Also, I'd rather have him over the other two instead of an AD carry (assuming you didn't send an AD top/mid) because of his peeling capabilities in teamfights. What does she bring to the table others don't? Is it the possibility to basically instagib their AD if you hit your first Q on them once you reach a certain item level? If you can get an early BF sword at around level 7-9, especially if you level Q+W instead of W+E, your ult+Q+Q combo will likely instantly kill them or at least put them at a very critical health.
Same goes for Pantheon, Jarvan does hurt pretty badly too if you build a brutalizer on him. That wasn't my question. My question is if there is a reason to take Fiora over either of those.
I'm not saying she's bad, I want to know if there's something she does better than the more usual kill lane champions.
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On June 18 2012 16:40 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 16:25 Duskbane wrote:On June 17 2012 19:52 Shiv. wrote:On June 17 2012 08:27 Hyren wrote:On June 15 2012 04:25 Slayer91 wrote:
She's pretty good bot as well. A few weeks ago I was duoing with my friend bot lane Fiora/Taric. Many early first bloods Honest question: is there any reason to take Fiora in these sorts of kill lanes over, say, Jarvan or Pantheon? I don't really play her, thus I'm not sure how exactly she is supposed to scale into mid- and late game. To me, it seems like Pantheon would be a much stronger threat in these sorts of lanes because he doesn't rely on being in autoattack range as much and simply has the higher burst up until lvl 6. With Jarvan, it's the same, but I'd say his lvl 6 is stronger than hers because his R is more reliable. Also, I'd rather have him over the other two instead of an AD carry (assuming you didn't send an AD top/mid) because of his peeling capabilities in teamfights. What does she bring to the table others don't? Is it the possibility to basically instagib their AD if you hit your first Q on them once you reach a certain item level? If you can get an early BF sword at around level 7-9, especially if you level Q+W instead of W+E, your ult+Q+Q combo will likely instantly kill them or at least put them at a very critical health. Same goes for Pantheon, Jarvan does hurt pretty badly too if you build a brutalizer on him. That wasn't my question. My question is if there is a reason to take Fiora over either of those. I'm not saying she's bad, I want to know if there's something she does better than the more usual kill lane champions.
she trades cc for sustain compared to those two
don't necessarily think she's stronger than either of them for it though
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On June 17 2012 19:56 justiceknight wrote:
any1 knows how much her passive heals in 1v1 fight? And also what skill sequence to spam in 1v1?
Er, I dont recall the scaling of her passive off the top of my head, but if I find myself unlazy enough tomorrow, I shall record them if you'd like
I use her skills in Q -> W -> E manner, using the second lunge and ult as needed
Edit: I googled it real quick, and Ive discovered:
Fiora regenerates 7 + (1 × level) health over 6 seconds each time she deals physical damage. Striking champions will cause this effect to stack up to 4 times.
From LoL Wiki, its also on leaguepedia and some other sites
Be good to have it in the OP 
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On June 18 2012 16:40 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 16:25 Duskbane wrote:On June 17 2012 19:52 Shiv. wrote:On June 17 2012 08:27 Hyren wrote:On June 15 2012 04:25 Slayer91 wrote:
She's pretty good bot as well. A few weeks ago I was duoing with my friend bot lane Fiora/Taric. Many early first bloods Honest question: is there any reason to take Fiora in these sorts of kill lanes over, say, Jarvan or Pantheon? I don't really play her, thus I'm not sure how exactly she is supposed to scale into mid- and late game. To me, it seems like Pantheon would be a much stronger threat in these sorts of lanes because he doesn't rely on being in autoattack range as much and simply has the higher burst up until lvl 6. With Jarvan, it's the same, but I'd say his lvl 6 is stronger than hers because his R is more reliable. Also, I'd rather have him over the other two instead of an AD carry (assuming you didn't send an AD top/mid) because of his peeling capabilities in teamfights. What does she bring to the table others don't? Is it the possibility to basically instagib their AD if you hit your first Q on them once you reach a certain item level? If you can get an early BF sword at around level 7-9, especially if you level Q+W instead of W+E, your ult+Q+Q combo will likely instantly kill them or at least put them at a very critical health. Same goes for Pantheon, Jarvan does hurt pretty badly too if you build a brutalizer on him. That wasn't my question. My question is if there is a reason to take Fiora over either of those. I'm not saying she's bad, I want to know if there's something she does better than the more usual kill lane champions.
I was answering the question "Is it the possibility to basically instagib their AD". I haven/t seen any Pantheons lately but I personally think it's easier to avoid his damage while Fiora relies on speed and not spells. I don't think there's a reason specifically to take Fiora over Pantheon unless you just like her playstyle like I do.
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On June 18 2012 17:31 Duskbane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 16:40 Shiv. wrote:On June 18 2012 16:25 Duskbane wrote:On June 17 2012 19:52 Shiv. wrote:On June 17 2012 08:27 Hyren wrote:On June 15 2012 04:25 Slayer91 wrote:
She's pretty good bot as well. A few weeks ago I was duoing with my friend bot lane Fiora/Taric. Many early first bloods Honest question: is there any reason to take Fiora in these sorts of kill lanes over, say, Jarvan or Pantheon? I don't really play her, thus I'm not sure how exactly she is supposed to scale into mid- and late game. To me, it seems like Pantheon would be a much stronger threat in these sorts of lanes because he doesn't rely on being in autoattack range as much and simply has the higher burst up until lvl 6. With Jarvan, it's the same, but I'd say his lvl 6 is stronger than hers because his R is more reliable. Also, I'd rather have him over the other two instead of an AD carry (assuming you didn't send an AD top/mid) because of his peeling capabilities in teamfights. What does she bring to the table others don't? Is it the possibility to basically instagib their AD if you hit your first Q on them once you reach a certain item level? If you can get an early BF sword at around level 7-9, especially if you level Q+W instead of W+E, your ult+Q+Q combo will likely instantly kill them or at least put them at a very critical health. Same goes for Pantheon, Jarvan does hurt pretty badly too if you build a brutalizer on him. That wasn't my question. My question is if there is a reason to take Fiora over either of those. I'm not saying she's bad, I want to know if there's something she does better than the more usual kill lane champions. I was answering the question "Is it the possibility to basically instagib their AD". I haven/t seen any Pantheons lately but I personally think it's easier to avoid his damage while Fiora relies on speed and not spells. I don't think there's a reason specifically to take Fiora over Pantheon unless you just like her playstyle like I do.
Thanks, that's all I wanted to know.
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Fioras not really a burst AD caster except for ulti, she's more like irelia with some burst and some sustained output and healing. They're both very hard to lock down and catch as well.
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Played Fiora a little, I think getting Guardian's Angel only, and getting it last is not nearly enough tankiness given she has to be in the midst of everyone and her ult doesn't last forever. You have to be seriously stomping for that to work.
I was thinking maybe something like... wriggles/bf sword->atmogs(figures she needs all the hp ;>)->finish off bf item (probably bloodthirster)/banshee's veil (maybe FoN), triforce.
She kind of occupies a weird place, because she's not really an AD caster, but her autoattacks aren't that strong either (except when burst of speed is up). I'm not exactly sure what I should be doing when burst of speed is on cooldown during teamfights (ult? :>), although if you build tanky it isn' t such a big deal...
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Played her a little today. Seriously, why would anyone play her instead of Master Yi? It feels like Yi is just a better version of Fiora.
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Fiora has better burst damage and is cooler and sticks to targets better.
atm I like wriggles/wits end GA or wriggles/ghostblade GA into more damage.
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Just started playing fiora yesterday since she's free this week and i'm absolutely in love. I've been jungling and opening wriggle's into warmog's then IE and BT.
carrying hard with it too
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On June 20 2012 17:23 Sufficiency wrote:
Played her a little today. Seriously, why would anyone play her instead of Master Yi? It feels like Yi is just a better version of Fiora.
She has 2 gap closer and 1 mini gap closer as opposed to Master Yi's one gap closer.
Her Ult is very strong damage and it also grants her invulnerability and lets her tower dive people easily
Her W lets her ward off most enemy kiting attempts
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On June 21 2012 07:14 GhostOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 17:23 Sufficiency wrote:
Played her a little today. Seriously, why would anyone play her instead of Master Yi? It feels like Yi is just a better version of Fiora. She has 2 gap closer and 1 mini gap closer as opposed to Master Yi's one gap closer. Her Ult is very strong damage and it also grants her invulnerability and lets her tower dive people easily Her W lets her ward off most enemy kiting attempts
In the jungle, master yi is generally a quicker jungle due to alpha strike's damage to multiple targets+random damage. Fiora's ganks pre-6 are stronger than master yi's but master yi has a bit more possible front-loaded burst because alpha strike + double strike + wuju style does an absurd amount of damage while fiora relies on the person ganked to auto her to deal maximum damage. In lane though, Fiora is far and away better than master yi.
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On June 21 2012 07:27 Lmui wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 07:14 GhostOwl wrote:On June 20 2012 17:23 Sufficiency wrote:
Played her a little today. Seriously, why would anyone play her instead of Master Yi? It feels like Yi is just a better version of Fiora. She has 2 gap closer and 1 mini gap closer as opposed to Master Yi's one gap closer. Her Ult is very strong damage and it also grants her invulnerability and lets her tower dive people easily Her W lets her ward off most enemy kiting attempts In the jungle, master yi is generally a quicker jungle due to alpha strike's damage to multiple targets+random damage. Fiora's ganks pre-6 are stronger than master yi's but master yi has a bit more possible front-loaded burst because alpha strike + double strike + wuju style does an absurd amount of damage while fiora relies on the person ganked to auto her to deal maximum damage. In lane though, Fiora is far and away better than master yi.
I was never comparing them in the jungle. I was comparing them in lanes. I don't think either Fiora or Yi should jungle. I mean, yes, they can pull it off, but I'd always rather play a jungler like Skarner who provides the team with CC, good ganks, counter-jungling, and tanky-ness
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If yi is good anywhere its as a jungle though.
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On June 21 2012 21:43 Slayer91 wrote:
If yi is good anywhere its as a jungle though.
I don't think he's viable as anything apart from AP Yi and even that is only if he gets his lane camped by his jungler
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Any info on playing vs Malphite or Rumble or they are hard counters?
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Rumble shouldn't be a problem, burst him when his Q is on CD. Malphite should screw you over though, just get wriggles and farm.
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On June 22 2012 06:36 Slayer91 wrote:
Rumble shouldn't be a problem, burst him when his Q is on CD. Malphite should screw you over though, just get wriggles and farm.
Just played a game, im trying fiora on blind pick, got owned by a Rumble i opened cloth +5 pots he opened +20 ap, i was blind tho maybe with boots +3 i could be ok.
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Boots or null magic is pretty good.
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How does Fiora mid compare to Talon? I know that she's more of an AD carry than assassin, but the riposte active doesn't do anything vs casters, while talon has two types of CC, and isn't gankable when his ult's up. Fiora's escapes seem a little limited, which also means she can't disengage as easily as the other melee carries (Trynd/Jax/Yi).
Melee AD just seems like it only works for bruisers and bursty AD casters (with Riven being somewhere in between). On paper, though, she looks more fun/useful in more situations than master Yi (though Yi's passive is OP for backdooring).
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She's a bruiser, not an AD carry, same with riven. A lot of bruisers can be built squishy or with lots of AD like jarvan, lee sin, irelia etc.
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Something about Fiora:
Many people play her wrong. She can, and should be aggressive right from lvl 1. Especially vs AD-ish bruisers she's amazing right away, especially if you build her right with full armor runes and defensive masteries. Q -> hit -> Q -> hit -> retreat with 4 stacks of passive should regen her to full hp in no time and that already deals like 150-200 damage. After lvl 2 she gets riposte and passive 15 damage and at that point she should just keep attacking the enemy because she outdamages them like crazy and just outregens them in trades.
From my limited experience she destroys stuff like Pantheon for instance. With full armor runepage and cloth starters and constant harrass Pantheon really can't do anything.
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That's one reason why you probably consider the -minion damage masteries in defensive tree on fiora. She's really strong from level 1.
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On June 22 2012 09:25 Shikyo wrote:
Something about Fiora:
Many people play her wrong. She can, and should be aggressive right from lvl 1. Especially vs AD-ish bruisers she's amazing right away, especially if you build her right with full armor runes and defensive masteries. Q -> hit -> Q -> hit -> retreat with 4 stacks of passive should regen her to full hp in no time and that already deals like 150-200 damage. After lvl 2 she gets riposte and passive 15 damage and at that point she should just keep attacking the enemy because she outdamages them like crazy and just outregens them in trades.
From my limited experience she destroys stuff like Pantheon for instance. With full armor runepage and cloth starters and constant harrass Pantheon really can't do anything.
I cant express how much I agree with this
I played vs Fiora as Panth today
She did exactly what you mentioned (Q/hit harass right off the bat), she traded slightly better than me
At level 2, I thought I could kill her, she wrecked me
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Defensive runes/masteries, offensive items. Also, probably the champ who benefits the most from cleanse.
Don't buy Warmogs on Fiora (except maybe very situationally). She doesn't benefit a lot from health compared to others.
First, lifesteal is a great substitute for health on someone who does as much autoattack (and ult) damage as her. Consider that a vampiric scepter is 32/66/100 + .24*AD health back just from ult, worst case, plus some back for each auto you land, and it scales with more deeps.
Second, you like resists. In lane, your passive gives you lots of healing. Once you have lifesteal, you have lots of healing.
Don't go super glass cannon. Infinity Edge is pretty hard to fit in your build unless you are rollin in da brozouf. Wriggles or Hexdrinker should be your first buy, followed by BF Sword into Black Cleaver or Bloodthirster. Upgrade Hexdrinker, buy GA. You now have a solid core of resists and lots of DPS/1v1 potential, plus tons of free healing in fights. It's a very fine balance between being tanky enough to not die before reaching your target and doing enough deeps to dunk your target once you get there.
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On June 23 2012 14:02 Tooplark wrote:
Defensive runes/masteries, offensive items. Also, probably the champ who benefits the most from cleanse.
Don't buy Warmogs on Fiora (except maybe very situationally). She doesn't benefit a lot from health compared to others.
First, lifesteal is a great substitute for health on someone who does as much autoattack (and ult) damage as her. Consider that a vampiric scepter is 32/66/100 + .24*AD health back just from ult, worst case, plus some back for each auto you land, and it scales with more deeps.
Second, you like resists. In lane, your passive gives you lots of healing. Once you have lifesteal, you have lots of healing.
Don't go super glass cannon. Infinity Edge is pretty hard to fit in your build unless you are rollin in da brozouf. Wriggles or Hexdrinker should be your first buy, followed by BF Sword into Black Cleaver or Bloodthirster. Upgrade Hexdrinker, buy GA. You now have a solid core of resists and lots of DPS/1v1 potential, plus tons of free healing in fights. It's a very fine balance between being tanky enough to not die before reaching your target and doing enough deeps to dunk your target once you get there.
Added your post to the OP near the other builds, as this build is just as amazing if not even moreso than the ones I posted.
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I try :D
Here's some thoughts on how Fiora compares to other champs:
Fiora vs Talon:
Fiora can disengage better than Talon thanks to the second dash on Q, but Talon outbursts her. Talon also has a silence and better poke. Fiora can't dunk casters near as hard as Talon late game but she doesn't become useless because someone bought a chainmail.
Fiora vs Master Yi:
Yi is significantly better in jungle, though I actually feel like Fiora has stronger ganks due to being able to follow a flash with her second Q. In terms of sheer late game DPS, Yi beats pretty much everything, but Fiora is far more useful in teamfights since she has two dashes and an ult that both takes her out of the fight and helps her stick to things.
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Chainmail? It's not as if being an AD caster and all you weren't going to buy a Last Whisper...
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ive played talon and fiora extensively and they are completely different. talon is a true ad caster. fiora is a auto attack champ. late game they will both wreck things. calling fiora an ad caster is baffling to me.
i jungle fiora like i said on pg 1. cloth, boots, wriggles, hog, black cleaver is core for me. i cant decide how viable she is but she does carry real hard. i get more ppl telling me fiora is op then almost any other champ i play besides skarner. fiora ult at lvl 6 for diving is so fun.
she feels pretty good in the jungle. start cloth, get w for the free ad, get some attack speed reds and at lvl 1 you have quite the ensemble going on.
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fiora is trash in the jungle, why jungle her when stuff like naut or nocturne exists. just play her top =/ with wriggles go either ghost or IE and lw and wreck people if you snowball your lane.
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The enemy junglers must be really bad at jungling then. Fiora has absolutely no AoE, so her jungle clear time is sub-par. Champs like Nocturne, Mundo, and Nautilus can clear camps significantly faster than her, so she is much more susceptible to counter-jungling. You are already at a disadvantage in the jungle.
She also has absolutely no CC to speak of. Her ganks are significantly weaker than the aforementioned junglers. She has some pretty strong steroids (bonus AD and an attack speed buff), but the lack of CC makes her a lot less scary than she should be.
IMO, laning Fiora is significantly better than jungling. You need a lot of money to make her actually scale well (BT, LW, GA), and you can't get that money from jungling. Your steroids will let you out trade the opposing laner (typically).
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What do you guys think about maxing E first in the jungle instead of W? It seems to me that it gives her much better sticking power through her movement speed boost and it also ups your clear speed significantly.
Lately I've been starting with W, then taking E, and Q once I hit 3 for ganking, maxing E first and have been having much better success than with W jungle.
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lol fiora does fine in the jungle. you can take them 1v1 if they invade you know. fiora has 2 gap closers and one of the best ults for diving. fiora's clear is fast too, especially once u get wriggles u just decimate all the camps. even her first clear isnt that bad, it's not the fastest but it's not the slowest either (i havent timed them but i would bet fiora's first clear is faster then naut) and once you get madreds/wriggles you can kill golems in less then 5 sec.
i go w first and then e. the free ad on w and the active both help in clearing the jungle. E is also on a long cool down with a short duration, this is the main point of why w is better to max. when you max e you have long stretches where e isnt up and your clear is so slow. This was a bit counterintuitive but it's true. i have tried both and will never max e first again. not to mention maxing w first maximizes the parry damage early enough that it does significant damage to creeps.
i highly suggest atk spd reds to make your first clear as fast as possible. i jungle almost all my games with a wide range of champs, and am very sensitive to clear speeds as i tend to spend most of my time farming my jungle. fioras clear starts off in the lower end, but quickly (like when u complete madreds) your speed jumps up to near the top, and she might even have the fastest golem kill time.
i wouldnt pick fiora if the other team has mundo or shyv etc. but i wouldnt pick a lot of junglers if i was against mundo or shyv. situationally fiora is fine and even solid in the jungle. You just have to know what u are doing. She has one of the earliest dragons too which is an advantage.
Shyv doesn't have cc either. But most shyv take exhaust like Fiora should do also.
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this thread made me pull fiora off the shelf and give her another chance. and ive been hooked ever since. i play her jungle or top if someone else is jungling and once u figure out how she works you can do awesome things. ive probably played her 75% of my games the last 3 weeks and i have won 75% of those.
the thing about fiora is it is extremely risky for just about every champ ive come across to trade with her, i just played a game where i waited patiently for lvl 3 against a panth top lane. i let him bully me a bit before then but once i got all my skills i just jumped on him, ignited him, and got first blood.
she has quickly become one of my favorite junglers too. with wriggles (or just madreds) you clear the jungle amazingly fast (dragon is also easily soloable as soon as you finish wriggles). she has a bit of sustain with her passive and w blocks a full attack. she is a bit like shyvana. you have no cc but u have a movespeed burst ability, and 2 gap closers that actually proc movespeed, and with red or exhaust (mandatory imo), you can easily snowball. also her ult is one of the best for lvl 6 diving.
she is situational in the jungle tho (actually situational top also but if you dont pick her into a bad lane you can wreck faces). i wouldnt pick her into a mundo, trundle, or shyv jungle (mundo is seemingly unbeatable, and if i am going to first pick fiora i ban mundo), and shyv is doable actually but i prefer not to deal with it. no one plays trundle but i could see him beating fiora at early lvls. against any other jungler you just have to fight them once and they will not invade without backup again. not to mention with wriggles FIORA can steal buffs/camps in literally seconds. i dont think there are any junglers that can kill a buff golem as fast as fiora with wriggles.
i dont know what else to say. if you give her a shot (atk spd red, armor yellow, mres blue, ad or arpen quint for jungling, start cloth, w-e-w-q) and learn to use her skills together u will do well. the first few games i was surprised at how well i did. ive come to realize she is just very strong at pretty much all phases of the game.
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Fiora in Jungle is so blah. Sure Shyvana has no CC but she has insane AoE clear times and great dueling.
Fiora has an AS boost, an AD boost and a double gap closer. At 6 she has an "invulnerable" ult that deals good damage. She belongs top lane or mid lane. She needs too much farm for jungle, farms too slowly for jungle, and has crappy ganks. However she has great sustain for laning (x4 if you hit a champ,) great 1v1 damage and an auto attack deflection. As well as her steroids and gap closers. She performs so much better top than in the jungle. I have no problem 1 picking her in ranked the only "real" counter she has is Malphite who is just a cunt right now. Everyone else is doable.
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With the recent buff on Fiora's ult, I've been thinking of trying her out, but what prevents ppl from picking fiora more often?
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Her W puts a barrier looking thing on her, and E is a simple steroid. Visually she's not very fun which might've kept a lot of people from trying her.
Jungle Fiora has a more reliable gank than Shyvana does though. Speed boost into 2 dashes can at least guaruntee you can damage the enemy, even if you can't kill them without red.
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On July 08 2012 03:12 Deltablazy wrote:
With the recent buff on Fiora's ult, I've been thinking of trying her out, but what prevents ppl from picking fiora more often?
She's basically a 1v1 duelist/pubstomp champion; there's really no team value that she offers.
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vaporized, what's your summoner name?
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xeroborn. i just started playing ranked again yesterday cuz i moved and didnt have my desktop only my laptop (which lags). i got my desktop and went 1-1 in ranked with fiora so far (jungling her that is). the first game i went 8-2-8 and we won ez. the second game i started 5-0-0 and then my team just went to shit. 1-12 kennen at the end. we lost that one. the next game i jungled i went skarner and went 12-1-17 lol. i wanted to win that one. like i said, fiora is situational, but effective in the right spots.
and i am low elo. take my opinions for what they are worth. but i am fairly obviously the best player in most if not all my games. i went 4-1 in ranked yesterday, first ranked games in a month, and carried hard all 4 of the wins.
the last few weeks i would play normal drafts because my laptop sucks, and i got interested in fiora jungle. i wanted to see how fiora stacked up against a wide variety of teams and enemy junglers. ive won so many normal drafts lately i get much better teammates in those games then my ranked games. over 40+ games i think fiora is fine to possibly quite good in the jungle and i will keep playing her there.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 08 2012 08:34 Vaporized wrote:xeroborn. i just started playing ranked again yesterday cuz i moved and didnt have my desktop only my laptop (which lags). i got my desktop and went 1-1 in ranked with fiora so far (jungling her that is). the first game i went 8-2-8 and we won ez. the second game i started 5-0-0 and then my team just went to shit. 1-12 kennen at the end. we lost that one. the next game i jungled i went skarner and went 12-1-17 lol. i wanted to win that one. like i said, fiora is situational, but effective in the right spots. and i am low elo. take my opinions for what they are worth. but i am fairly obviously the best player in most if not all my games. i went 4-1 in ranked yesterday, first ranked games in a month, and carried hard all 4 of the wins. the last few weeks i would play normal drafts because my laptop sucks, and i got interested in fiora jungle. i wanted to see how fiora stacked up against a wide variety of teams and enemy junglers. ive won so many normal drafts lately i get much better teammates in those games then my ranked games. over 40+ games i think fiora is fine to possibly quite good in the jungle and i will keep playing her there. + Show Spoiler +
Glad to see my thread inspired someone :D
Can you recommend a jungler build and I will add it to the OP for those interested?
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ya im glad you made this thread, thanks man. i hadnt played fiora in months and then i saw your thread and pulled her out for a few games and now im hooked. she is a blast imo.
for jungle i go atk spd reds, armor yellow, mres blue, armpen quints. summoners get smite and exhaust (exhaust is crucial). start cloth 5 and open w. this setup is amazing at lvl 1. you get atk speed, +15 ad from w, cloth armor, and armor pen.
start wolves then blue (i ask for a leash every game no matter what jungler im playing, fiora is no different). i like the standard wraiths, wolves, red, wraiths, golems lvl 4 path. and oftentimes you will have pots left over at the end. skill order is w-e-w-q, then r-w-e-q. maxing e first is a huge mistake in the jungle.
for ganks i like to start at lvl 4 with red buff and boots. depending on the angle and how pushed your opponent is you can either lead off with a q to close the gap, or even better is running up on them and then using q to catch up when the enemy flashes. if you are smart about how you use your skills here you can easily get a kill. use w if they turn to attack you, an e-q-q combo with red + exhaust is often enough to let you auto a few times and get a kill. it also never gets old when someone kills themselves off a w proc.
at lvl 6 ganking becomes a lot more interesting. you can dive very effectively with your ult. use your e-q-q combo to hopefully get them down around 1/3 health and then ult and you will get the kill. one other thing ive found useful is if a big fight is going on bot lane and low health enemies are heading back to their tower you can run in and ult them (ask your lane to push minions if at all possible), and hopefully get a double kill.
i get the same items every game: cloth, boots, wriggles, hog, merc treads, black cleaver. the wriggles is the big one there. you want to finish madreds ASAP as it lets you clear absurdly fast. and as soon as you finish wriggles you can go straight to dragon and solo it (at lvl 7 is possible with 2-3 potions, lvl 8 you might need 1 potion, you will have lvl 2 e which helps a lot). once you get wriggles then fiora suddenly becomes the invade threat, you kill camps so fast.
the rest of the item build is situational. just get whatever you need. if you are getting blown up get frozen mallet, more sustain get bt, more damage get ie or pd. if i need resists i get randuins or force of nature.
also of note is fiora's split pushing ability. fiora kills towers comically fast. there was one game where the whole enemy team was pushing down bot. i pushed down their 2nd top tower and their 3rd tower + inhib, and my team was able to defend our inhib with the turrets help. that play basically won us the game. once i played that game i take advantage of this whenever possible. if a lane is losing then run in when the enemy goes back and kill the turret asap. this lets your laner roam, or at the least get out of a bad lane, and also gives you a lane to go farm guilt free when possible.
thats how i do it. she brings a lot of interesting things to the table, like amazing split pushing, absurd damage all game long, and early dragon control that imo balance out her lack of cc or tankiness. the sports analogy 'the best defense is a good offense' i think applies to fiora quite well. if the enemy is dead then you dont have to cc or tank anything.
edit: i forgot matchups. i only pick fiora if i know what their jungler is. shyv, mundo, udyr, trundle are all bad matchups. against those guys i like to pick one of the others (or skarner) so at least i can keep up. any other jungler i found fiora does fine. even shyv is actually doable, you can kill her at low lvls, but it can be obnoxious. mundo i either ban if im first pick and want to play fiora, or i just pick shyv myself if the other guy picks mundo. ive never actually jungled fiora against mundo but i just dont see it working out for fiora at all. fiora's first clear is not the fastest or the slowest, you can hit 4 at 3:50-4:00, and from then on you just wreck the jungle so fast, including possibly the fastest buff golem kill times of any champ once you get madreds/wriggles.
one last point: in champ select or in a premade team get either top or support to pick a good tank like malph, ali, or leona. if there is one thing fiora does not do it is tank.
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I think you should try master yi tbh
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@Vaporized, didn't agree at all with what you were saying so I checked your profile to see if you were low elo or not
That's irrelevant though just posting to tell advise you that you should never ever build attk speed on fiora. Ever. Huge waste of money.
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fiora isnt for everyone or every game. however, if you learn how to use her correctly you can make plays all game long. at first i thought i was getting lucky or the enemy team sucked. ive played so many games with her now that i have come to the conclusion that she is just really strong. i really only lose if my lanes are hopeless, and if thats the case i would lose no matter what jungler i had picked. like the game i lost yesterday where the kennen was 1-12, i started this game 5-0 and my laners got assists. a few minutes later all of them had died (kennen multiple times), i can only do so much.
i dont honestly care if you think she is good or not. i didnt know if she was good so i played her a bunch the last few weeks. after a wide variety of games where i get fed, where i dont get fed, where my lanes win, or my lanes lose, i have come to the conclusion that she is very good.
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On July 08 2012 10:21 Feartheguru wrote:
@Vaporized, didn't agree at all with what you were saying so I checked your profile to see if you were low elo or not
That's irrelevant though just posting to tell advise you that you should never ever build attk speed on fiora. Ever. Huge waste of money.
see now that is where you are just plain wrong.
i started out my jungle fiora oddysey with ad runes. this slows down your first clear (her first clear is the slowest and making it as fast as possible is extremely important). lvl 1 w gives you 15 ad. this is more then a long sword, you dont need ad runes. i made custom games to try ad vs atk spd red runes and how it affected clear times. its no contest atk spd is better. you clear faster, which means you need less pots.
and i dont know how fiora is at higher elos. i do know that not everyone is 2k and at lower lvls you have to carry yourself. for those people looking to carry themselves my build works very well, and is the result of many, many games of trial and error to figure out what works best. when i first got fiora i tried jungling her with e max and ad runes, this was unacceptable to me in clear speed, e has a long cooldown and is only up for 3 sec out of ~10-15. it wasnt until i went back to her more recently and tried w max and atk spd runes that i was pleasantly surprised by how she does, surprised enough that i was motivated to keep playing her to see what else i could do.
there are 100 champs in this game with dozens of items to build and runes and masteries to change around. it is extremely close-minded to assume that fiora cant do well in a variety of situations or that there is one way that is the best to build her. trust me, if i was unsatisfied in any way with how she played or her jungle ability i wouldnt have played her for the last month almost. some aspects of the build are counterintuitive (atk spd reds and maxing w over e), i found them to be counterintuitive myself and these were certainly not the first things i tried. but its what worked the best.
i dont think its a coincidence that when i jungle fiora sometimes people are wary, but (and this really surprised me the first few times) just as often people will say she is op or strong. people that have taken the time to learn how to play her know how strong she can be.
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You have a 130% attk speed steroid which lasts a few seconds. Realistically in a fight you'll enter a few seconds after it begins auto with e on for at most the duration then get focused and have to move away or ulti. Afterwards e will be back soon and after that the fight is decided. That's how 80% of the fights will happen. You won't have huge periods of time where e is down and you're in someone's face, it just doesn't happen. Attk speed on top of 130% steroid is really wasteful. If you look at all the popular guides no one builds attk speed. Just try wriggles-->bt-->ga/lw-->ga/lw-->bt. It'll work a lot better.
Also nothing is counter-intuitive about attk speed reds (necessary for decent jungle speed) and maxing w (pretty clearly more dps in the jungle from simple mental math)
P.S. Why is it close minded to say a champ can't be built a certain way? Building ap on fiora would be an obvious error, something like attk speed of fiora would have much less detrimental effect but I can't imagine why suggesting that there is some detriment would be considered close minded.
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On July 08 2012 09:52 Vaporized wrote:
ya im glad you made this thread, thanks man. i hadnt played fiora in months and then i saw your thread and pulled her out for a few games and now im hooked. she is a blast imo.
for jungle i go atk spd reds, armor yellow, mres blue, armpen quints. summoners get smite and exhaust (exhaust is crucial). start cloth 5 and open w. this setup is amazing at lvl 1. you get atk speed, +15 ad from w, cloth armor, and armor pen.
start wolves then blue (i ask for a leash every game no matter what jungler im playing, fiora is no different). i like the standard wraiths, wolves, red, wraiths, golems lvl 4 path. and oftentimes you will have pots left over at the end. skill order is w-e-w-q, then r-w-e-q. maxing e first is a huge mistake in the jungle.
for ganks i like to start at lvl 4 with red buff and boots. depending on the angle and how pushed your opponent is you can either lead off with a q to close the gap, or even better is running up on them and then using q to catch up when the enemy flashes. if you are smart about how you use your skills here you can easily get a kill. use w if they turn to attack you, an e-q-q combo with red + exhaust is often enough to let you auto a few times and get a kill. it also never gets old when someone kills themselves off a w proc.
at lvl 6 ganking becomes a lot more interesting. you can dive very effectively with your ult. use your e-q-q combo to hopefully get them down around 1/3 health and then ult and you will get the kill. one other thing ive found useful is if a big fight is going on bot lane and low health enemies are heading back to their tower you can run in and ult them (ask your lane to push minions if at all possible), and hopefully get a double kill.
i get the same items every game: cloth, boots, wriggles, hog, merc treads, black cleaver. the wriggles is the big one there. you want to finish madreds ASAP as it lets you clear absurdly fast. and as soon as you finish wriggles you can go straight to dragon and solo it (at lvl 7 is possible with 2-3 potions, lvl 8 you might need 1 potion, you will have lvl 2 e which helps a lot). once you get wriggles then fiora suddenly becomes the invade threat, you kill camps so fast.
the rest of the item build is situational. just get whatever you need. if you are getting blown up get frozen mallet, more sustain get bt, more damage get ie or pd. if i need resists i get randuins or force of nature.
also of note is fiora's split pushing ability. fiora kills towers comically fast. there was one game where the whole enemy team was pushing down bot. i pushed down their 2nd top tower and their 3rd tower + inhib, and my team was able to defend our inhib with the turrets help. that play basically won us the game. once i played that game i take advantage of this whenever possible. if a lane is losing then run in when the enemy goes back and kill the turret asap. this lets your laner roam, or at the least get out of a bad lane, and also gives you a lane to go farm guilt free when possible.
thats how i do it. she brings a lot of interesting things to the table, like amazing split pushing, absurd damage all game long, and early dragon control that imo balance out her lack of cc or tankiness. the sports analogy 'the best defense is a good offense' i think applies to fiora quite well. if the enemy is dead then you dont have to cc or tank anything.
edit: i forgot matchups. i only pick fiora if i know what their jungler is. shyv, mundo, udyr, trundle are all bad matchups. against those guys i like to pick one of the others (or skarner) so at least i can keep up. any other jungler i found fiora does fine. even shyv is actually doable, you can kill her at low lvls, but it can be obnoxious. mundo i either ban if im first pick and want to play fiora, or i just pick shyv myself if the other guy picks mundo. ive never actually jungled fiora against mundo but i just dont see it working out for fiora at all. fiora's first clear is not the fastest or the slowest, you can hit 4 at 3:50-4:00, and from then on you just wreck the jungle so fast, including possibly the fastest buff golem kill times of any champ once you get madreds/wriggles.
one last point: in champ select or in a premade team get either top or support to pick a good tank like malph, ali, or leona. if there is one thing fiora does not do it is tank.
Sounds like a great build to me, I may have to try this next time I play. I've added your post to the "other build suggestions" tag in the OP
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So apparently alcohol makes me value my money less than normal, and I ended up buying a bunch of RP and spending it on completely random champions. Fiora being one of them, I decided to give her a try and hey it turns out she's fun as hell.
Her kit is kinda neat and follows the duelist theme nicely. Maxing Q first keeps the lunge at around the same dmg as an AA, which is pretty lame. IMO it makes sense to spend points on spicier skills and leave Q as a gap closer/mild escape.
So do I max W or E? Split points between them? If so, when? I prefer to let spreadsheets do the thinking for me!
Assumptions: +3 dmg mastery, 4 points in aspd mastery, no dmg items until lvl 7 at which point you return with double dorans. Fights are initiated with E and broken off when it ends so the dmg numbers below are restricted to the 3 seconds that E is active. Sometimes you can get that extra AA in, but I've rounded down to be conservative. No attack speed or damage runes are accounted for, and I've blown off armor pen completely.
+ Show Spoiler +LVL 4:
Skill Ranks: W2, E1
AAs during E: 3
DMG during E: 271 (381 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W1, E2
AAs during E: 3
DMG during E: 256 (316 w/ W proc)
^^ W wins, regardless of if the active gets proc'd.
+ Show Spoiler +LVL 5:
Skill Ranks: W3, E1
AAs during E: 3
DMG during E: 296 (456 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W2, E2
AAs during E: 3
DMG during E: 281 (391 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W1, E3
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 354 (414 w/ W proc)
^^ W wins if proc'd, E wins if not. Splitting points between them is worse than maxing.
+ Show Spoiler +LVL 7 (return with double dorans):
Skill Ranks: W4, E1
AAs during E: 3
DMG during E: 390 (600 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W3, E2
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 500 (660 w/ W proc)
^^ Notice the tick up from 3 AAs to 4, with only a 2nd point in E. Big change from the LVL 5 stats.
Skill Ranks: W2, E3
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 480 (590 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W1, E4
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 460 (520 w/ W proc)
+ Show Spoiler +LVL 9:
Skill Ranks: W5, E2
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 565 (825 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W4, E3
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 545 (755 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W3, E4
AAs during E: 4
DMG during E: 525 (685 w/ W proc)
Skill Ranks: W2, E5
AAs during E: 5
DMG during E: 632 (742 w/ W proc)
^^ Need all 5 points in E to tick up to 5 AAs, does the investment pay off? Maxing W first will leave you at 4 AAs per E until level 13.
IMO it makes the most sense to go QWEWWRE, then R>W>E>Q. I think starting WQE is a-okay too, your opening skills are match dependant. I know spreadsheets better than I know LoL, so please let me know if I'm an idiot.
Here's the math: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AooWM5Hr3dETdGRfYllObUxHVWNpTE8ybE8tUFF3T0E
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I like Q first for the lower CD gap closer and it makes nice harass in lane. Then I like to max E so I have the steroid when fights break out. I only get one point in W because while the instant 15 free AD is awesome, it's only 5 more per level, and you only need one point in the skill for the AA nullification in a trade. Q has higher base damage anyway.
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The lower CD on Q is nice, but just from playing around it seems that each lunge takes the same amount of time as an AA, so until higher ranks it doesn't actually add any extra damage when spammed in a fight. Also, if I combo each time it comes off CD, I tend to run out of mana faster than I'd like. If you have 4 seconds to use the free 2nd Q, that's enough time to Q E W AA AA AA, then Q back out. Playstyle differences are a factor here, as is my lack of skill and experience, haha.
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On July 16 2012 03:23 nmbr wrote:
The lower CD on Q is nice, but just from playing around it seems that each lunge takes the same amount of time as an AA, so until higher ranks it doesn't actually add any extra damage when spammed in a fight. Also, if I combo each time it comes off CD, I tend to run out of mana faster than I'd like. If you have 4 seconds to use the free 2nd Q, that's enough time to Q E W AA AA AA, then Q back out. Playstyle differences are a factor here, as is my lack of skill and experience, haha.
Not sure how much of the OP you read but I'll help either way. Always nice to see someone enjoy Fiora
Personally my skills in lane would go QWWEWR and then max R > W > E > Q. You don't use the Q for the damage, though it helps. You use it to either:
1) Close gap/escape
2) Stack up Burst of Speed (as Lunge DOES give a stack of the movespeed both times) which in turn is also used to close gap/escape
Having a gap closer on a shorter CD could have perks, but mainly to harass. For straight combat purposes, having W maxed is essential as it adds a ridiculous amount of AA damage for just a skill. The counter-attack part isn't that bad either, as it blocks some damage skills (Ezreal's Q comes to mind, though I haven't actually tested to see if it really counters this)
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What you max first depends on lane matchups. Sometimes it doesn't matter, but there are some where you need the repositionability of Q to be up faster.
In general, max E first in a lane where you have to go all in on trades.
Max Q first in a lane where you need to dash around a lot (i.e. dodging skillshots or fighting someone you can't win straight trades with).
Max W first in a lane where you trade a few blows and disengage.
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does anyone still play this ho? been playing her a bit, I'm gonna start going something like wriggles wits. the tanky builds don't do anything and BF sword is impossibly expensive vs typical lane-crusher top lane heroes
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I see her every now and again. She is insane as a niche pick. The amount of roflstomp she can lay on certain champs is scary. Plus her ult gives her teamfight presence
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who would these champs be that she can roflstomp? i've only been playing fiora jungle, but i've wanted to try her out mid or top as a counterpick for a while now
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She beats GP pretty hard. I think she can beat Darius. I've beaten Jax a few times, but it's very close and a better Jax might take it. Rumble you win unless he has full armor runes. In general, she does well against squishy dudes and people who rely on making it hard to disengage. Her list is pretty similar to Wukong, only she's squishier and is even better at disengage/heal up.
Mid she beats people without point and click CC as long as you keep your mindgames, but she's really fragile if you fail. People who have dodgeable ults are also pretty ez pickings.
On November 03 2012 13:34 UniversalSnip wrote:
does anyone still play this ho? been playing her a bit, I'm gonna start going something like wriggles wits. the tanky builds don't do anything and BF sword is impossibly expensive vs typical lane-crusher top lane heroes
Don't get Wit's End, it's a waste of her godlike AD scaling.
There are a few general positions the game can be in:
You're stomping lane - prepare to stomp teamfights. Bloodthirster GA.
You're even in lane - cheap efficient AD items as appropriate (e.g. Hexdrinker vs a magic damage champ, Brutalizer vs a squishy chump, etc.)
You're behind in lane - if tower is still up , get as much tank as you have to so that you can't get dunked/dived. Preferably attached to some damage as well - Hexdunker again, DBlades, etc. If tower's down, buy wards, ward your jungle, and farm until BT/GA.
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On November 03 2012 16:11 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
who would these champs be that she can roflstomp? i've only been playing fiora jungle, but i've wanted to try her out mid or top as a counterpick for a while now
WoD claims she can beat Nidalee.
Playing her mid is probably more fun though :3
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fiora is hilarious mid
i got stomped as ziggs vs a fiora because she just comboed me at level 6 at like 80-90% hp 1shot gg
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Fiora works well mid and bot the only reason she's good vsnid is because nids a lot like a ranged ad until level 6.
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On November 03 2012 16:31 Tooplark wrote:
Her list is pretty similar to Wukong, only she's squishier and is even better at disengage/heal up.
He has no sustain, better burst again tankier targets and a much lower sustained dps, how can you say they're good against similar champs? ôo They don't work the same way (well Fiora's still better at short trades because of steroid's duration and only needs to stack passive 4 times, so the sustained dps gap is less important I guess).
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On November 03 2012 23:50 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 16:31 Tooplark wrote:
Her list is pretty similar to Wukong, only she's squishier and is even better at disengage/heal up. He has no sustain, better burst again tankier targets and a much lower sustained dps, how can you say they're good against similar champs? ôo They don't work the same way (well Fiora's still better at short trades because of steroid's duration and only needs to stack passive 4 times, so the sustained dps gap is less important I guess).
Fiora's sustain is not incredible and Wukong's sustained dps is not bad thanks to the aspd buff on his E. Both have an easy way of dashing in, an easy way of dashing out, More important is the playstyle: hit things harder than they can hit back, as frequently as possible, then run away when the trade is unfavorable. While Wukong fares better against armor stacking, it's still going to hugely cut his damage. The differences in their stomplist mainly reflect either one of the disengages being impractical or one of the ults being less useful.
While their lategame roles and items are very different, in lane they play fairly similarly.
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Well you talked about Darius and actually Wukong has no way to go out of him because of pull+slow.
Wukong can't disengage easily against AoE and targeted slows because unless you press E before they cast you'll still be slowed while stealthed. Using W every trade tend to put a big dent on his manapool too, whereas the second Q for Fiora is free.
She needs a target to dash too to disengage, though.
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On November 03 2012 13:34 UniversalSnip wrote:
does anyone still play this ho? been playing her a bit, I'm gonna start going something like wriggles wits. the tanky builds don't do anything and BF sword is impossibly expensive vs typical lane-crusher top lane heroes
Play her mid lane. Or bot lane with like Leona/Alistar/Blitzcrank. You win bot lane against most AD/support combos that aren't organized (i.e., if your opponents aren't duo queue you can probably win the lane if you play smart). She eats AD carries during early and mid game.
In mid lane you have very few bad match ups if you press your pre-6 advantage since you out damage like every mid laner pre-6 (and out damage a lot of them post 6). Just don't fall into the trap of "max W always," lots of lanes Fiora max Q is better. In some lanes max E is better. You fall off a bit late game because you're melee but if your team has good initiation you're really threatening late game too.
Maw, BT, IE, LW, Ghostblade, and even PD all work on well on her. After like two damage items you typically build GA.
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2x Dorans > BT > GA is probably standard build.
Situational items include: brutalizer, phage, hexdrinker, wriggles, last whisper.
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WARNING: Untested 1300 theorycraft incoming.
Fiora is in a unique position itemwise in that she has naturally high attackspeed (E) and high base AD (W). Obviously her AD caster-y (burst) nature means that AD is valuable, but she really has more room to branch out into the other attack multipliers (ArPen and Crit). In addition, her theoretical DPS from her E is really constrained by the practical concerns of sticking on a target - even someone walking away from her really limits her E damage.
Thus, *relative to other bruisers/top lane physical champs* I think that LW rush or Bruta is strong (she's all physical, and has high base AD) and that IE and the crit damage mastery may be more useful on her than on most tops. In particular, Pickaxe builds into 3 items that seem like strong first or second option items - LW, Cutlass, and IE.
I'm gonna test this personally soon now that the end of season 1500 dream is dead for me and I'll branch champs out more, but Cutlass seems really strong in terms of having a huge damage upside by holding people in place for E that it doesn't on other champions. Also Cutlass -> IE or Cutlass -> LW may provide a lot of efficient DPS that many other champs wouldn't get the same punch from. GA still awesome as a defensive item.
Of course, the standard BT>GA may still be best, but I think Fiora's quirks lend her toward some 'unorthodox' builds.
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Cutlass doesn't build into anything later in the game though. Maybe in season 3 after the item overhaul. As is, I'd rather build Executioner's Calling for 18% life steal. Fiora doesn't really have many issues sticking to people due to the MS boost from E, the nature of her double Q, and the fact that her ult has some range and lands her on top of her opponent. I wouldn't recommend doing a LW rush but Bruta rush can be strong if you're laning against a low armor target. LW is only better than Bruta+your ArmPen runes against high armored targets and high armor targets are very unlikely that early into the game.
BT definitely not as required as some people make it out to be. Fiora is just as much an AD caster as she is as auto attacker. So yeah, you can get just vamp scepter by itself for lane sustain or build something like Exec or Wriggle and then go straight into IE.
Fiora is cool because she has a lot of different build and skill order options unlike 95% of the champions in this game. What you build and what you skill is entirely determined by your opposing laner and the opposing team's composition.
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lol
i play fiora top all the time
i consider her an ad carry, so i build ad items on her (i stay away from bruiser builds on fiora, she's much scarier with ad items)
generally get phage -> BT -> LW/some defensive item -> situational items
you stay back then jump onto enemy ranged ad carries = gg
wriggles is situationally good on fiora
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On November 06 2012 06:16 JerKy wrote:
lol
i play fiora top all the time
i consider her an ad carry, so i build ad items on her (i stay away from bruiser builds on fiora, she's much scarier with ad items)
generally get phage -> BT -> LW/some defensive item -> situational items
you stay back then jump onto enemy ranged ad carries = gg
wriggles is situationally good on fiora
stay back and then jump on ad carry is definition of assassin
ad carry focuses tanks
anyway armourpen stack is really good on her because of hte free AD and AS but so is wits end and madreds for her ulti. So you either pick on hit items+tank items or go for ghostblade and LW and maybe BT with defensive items like GA wriggles early if you need it and hexdrinker
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On November 07 2012 06:57 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 06:16 JerKy wrote:
lol
i play fiora top all the time
i consider her an ad carry, so i build ad items on her (i stay away from bruiser builds on fiora, she's much scarier with ad items)
generally get phage -> BT -> LW/some defensive item -> situational items
you stay back then jump onto enemy ranged ad carries = gg
wriggles is situationally good on fiora stay back and then jump on ad carry is definition of assassin ad carry focuses tanks anyway armourpen stack is really good on her because of hte free AD and AS but so is wits end and madreds for her ulti. So you either pick on hit items+tank items or go for ghostblade and LW and maybe BT with defensive items like GA wriggles early if you need it and hexdrinker
lolwat?
ad carry focuses tanks? I beg to differ on that
fiora is not an assassin. when i said she jumps onto enemy ad carries, i was naming A situation out of many where she is especially strong (that same situation applies to heroes like nocturne/riven/etc as well). my point here is that while people may want to jump in and ult immediately with fiora, if she's played as an AD carry (in terms of positioning/items/when to go in to attack), she's so much more potent
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On November 08 2012 18:39 JerKy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 06:57 Slayer91 wrote:On November 06 2012 06:16 JerKy wrote:
lol
i play fiora top all the time
i consider her an ad carry, so i build ad items on her (i stay away from bruiser builds on fiora, she's much scarier with ad items)
generally get phage -> BT -> LW/some defensive item -> situational items
you stay back then jump onto enemy ranged ad carries = gg
wriggles is situationally good on fiora stay back and then jump on ad carry is definition of assassin ad carry focuses tanks anyway armourpen stack is really good on her because of hte free AD and AS but so is wits end and madreds for her ulti. So you either pick on hit items+tank items or go for ghostblade and LW and maybe BT with defensive items like GA wriggles early if you need it and hexdrinker lolwat? ad carry focuses tanks? I beg to differ on that fiora is not an assassin. when i said she jumps onto enemy ad carries, i was naming A situation out of many where she is especially strong (that same situation applies to heroes like nocturne/riven/etc as well). my point here is that while people may want to jump in and ult immediately with fiora, if she's played as an AD carry (in terms of positioning/items/when to go in to attack), she's so much more potent
Obviously the tanks aren't your first choice but usually in teamfights that's how it goes down, and that's why IE PD LW is such a popular, universal adc build.
Oh I think you might be confused as to what we mean by ad carry. We mean ranged ADC.
That's kinda standard notation nowadays, adc = ranged ad carry, bruiser/assassin = terms to describe melee champs.
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Wanted some opinions from people better than me at this game about the match up versus Vlad. I've played the lane about a dozen times now and won lane every time. During the game or in post-game lobby the enemy team nearly always bitches about how Vladimir should win that lane and dismisses their Vlad as being bad. I've even had people "counter-pick" me and get Vlad but proceed to lose lane.
Now, what I don't get is why people think Vlad is a good counter to Fiora. His Q and auto attack range is shit and if he goes in to Q or auto a minion I can jump to him always. At levels 1-3 this is absurdly effective because I massively outdamage him even when tanking minions early on. Vlad either has to get zoned off creeps or get chunked/die.
You're probably thinking, "but he can just pool," and that is where you're wrong. His pool at level 1 is on a 26 second CD. My Q is on a 16 second CD and in Vlad lane I usually max it first or put 2-3 points in it early. You have a ten second window where Vlad either has to commit to a fight against you (and lose) or you just zone him. When he finally comes back to minions you jump on him again with Q and he pools. You usually win that trade too because of your initial damage plus pool damage to him (and if he retaliates with Q or E you get autos, maybe second Q before he pools).
I don't understand why people think he counters Fiora or is even a good match up. At best it's a skill match up and honestly I think it's a match up that heavily favors Fiora. Obvious solution is early jungle pressure to help Vlad from levels 1-5 (where you completely murder him). But then, if jungle pressure is necessary it should be pretty obvious who the match up favors.
Thoughts, opinions, experience from people who have played the match up from either side?
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In my experience she stomps Vlad. By the time Vlad is level 7 and starts to kick in, you should have abused him so hard that your entire team is level 18 (and your carry is 20+) and your support has more gold banked than he's earned in all his games of LoL ever, combined.
In all seriousness, barring serious jungle ganks you should stomp all over him. Just QE to him and force the pool or get free hits, and you can just Q to him again afterwards (or back towards your creeps if you don't feel like chasing further).
Get a vamp and an early hexdunker imo. Your ult should mainly be used to turn jungle ganks into double kills. Even if it's your jungler and you have to kill vlad two times at once.
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On November 14 2012 16:34 Tooplark wrote:
In my experience she stomps Vlad. By the time Vlad is level 7 and starts to kick in, you should have abused him so hard that your entire team is level 18 (and your carry is 20+) and your support has more gold banked than he's earned in all his games of LoL ever, combined.
In all seriousness, barring serious jungle ganks you should stomp all over him. Just QE to him and force the pool or get free hits, and you can just Q to him again afterwards (or back towards your creeps if you don't feel like chasing further).
Get a vamp and an early hexdunker imo. Your ult should mainly be used to turn jungle ganks into double kills. Even if it's your jungler and you have to kill vlad two times at once.
See, that's pretty much what's happened every time I've laned him. It's not even fucking close. Just get annoyed when people flame their Vlad, "cause he's shit," and act like Fiora is a weak pick against him. Trying to make sure I'm not insane and/or not laning against bad Vlads.
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I don't even own Fiora, but from what I've seen and honestly, just by looking at her kit, she should be pretty good against ranged top. She's good at closing the gap and E lets her actually get some autos because of the MS. This lets her bypass those ranged champions that abuse their autoattacks and ranged spells during the early levels. It also helps that she hits like a fucking truck at low levels.
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Fiora is my go to champ for dominion. But when I get dragged into an SR game i'm hesitant to use her. Is she viable in the jungle? Last time I tried it felt slow and the ganks are pretty weak.
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On November 25 2012 16:51 Khul Sadukar wrote:
Fiora is my go to champ for dominion. But when I get dragged into an SR game i'm hesitant to use her. Is she viable in the jungle? Last time I tried it felt slow and the ganks are pretty weak.
clear slow, no cc. There are better junglers out there, jax is pretty good and similar to her.. right down to the gap closer q
i just think she gets outshined by others.
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On November 08 2012 21:12 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 18:39 JerKy wrote:On November 07 2012 06:57 Slayer91 wrote:On November 06 2012 06:16 JerKy wrote:
lol
i play fiora top all the time
i consider her an ad carry, so i build ad items on her (i stay away from bruiser builds on fiora, she's much scarier with ad items)
generally get phage -> BT -> LW/some defensive item -> situational items
you stay back then jump onto enemy ranged ad carries = gg
wriggles is situationally good on fiora stay back and then jump on ad carry is definition of assassin ad carry focuses tanks anyway armourpen stack is really good on her because of hte free AD and AS but so is wits end and madreds for her ulti. So you either pick on hit items+tank items or go for ghostblade and LW and maybe BT with defensive items like GA wriggles early if you need it and hexdrinker lolwat? ad carry focuses tanks? I beg to differ on that fiora is not an assassin. when i said she jumps onto enemy ad carries, i was naming A situation out of many where she is especially strong (that same situation applies to heroes like nocturne/riven/etc as well). my point here is that while people may want to jump in and ult immediately with fiora, if she's played as an AD carry (in terms of positioning/items/when to go in to attack), she's so much more potent Obviously the tanks aren't your first choice but usually in teamfights that's how it goes down, and that's why IE PD LW is such a popular, universal adc build. Oh I think you might be confused as to what we mean by ad carry. We mean ranged ADC. That's kinda standard notation nowadays, adc = ranged ad carry, bruiser/assassin = terms to describe melee champs.
More simply put:
An AD Carry is capable of shredding tanks, and does so. Typically in a teamfight, after killing the enemy frontline he/she proceeds to eliminate the backline.
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Vlad loses to Fiora for the same reason that he has a rough time against Irelia. They both have strong gap closers and have the ability to stick to him after they jump on him. Their gapclosers have a lower cooldown than Vlad's pool, and once they get into melee range they heavily outdamage him for a long while. The logic is pretty simple enough. It's the same way that J4 actually lanes pretty well against Vlad, and you can do the same with Olaf although here it's more about your Q slowing him in such a way that allows you to engage on Vlad hard if they aren't being careful. From my experiences as playing Vlad, who was my most played champion in S2, I've only really won the lane hard if the opponent made a catastrophic mistake early before the first blue pill because they don't understand the matchup or they just plain made a mistake, or due to jungle interventions that give me an edge. I think Fiora is easier to play against than Irelia, but I've only played the Fiora matchup like 2 times.
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On November 25 2012 16:51 Khul Sadukar wrote:
Fiora is my go to champ for dominion. But when I get dragged into an SR game i'm hesitant to use her. Is she viable in the jungle? Last time I tried it felt slow and the ganks are pretty weak.
Why would you waste yourself in the jungle? At best Fiora is mediocre in the jungle. Fiora has a lot of demand for farm and has a monstrously abusive early/mid game in certain lanes. I would lane Fiora nearly every time you want to play her in SR as her jungle is doable but it's not where she shines. Also, in lane, Fiora only has a small number of "hard counters" and most of those counters won't stop you from getting farm.
If you prefer jungle, pick a different champion for SR. If you aren't good with her in lane, play her until you get good with her.
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I am working on a pretty nice Fiora build that goes something like Flask+ward+pots -> Vamp -> Bruta /Boots -> BC -> Hydra. If I need more armor I will mix a wardens in there and get a tabi. Eventually I build a Randuins. Randuins active + Hydra active + your ult makes you have a pretty huge influence in teamfights. I think Fiora is really an underrated champ especially with the season 3 changes, and am kinda sad there has been no discussion of her since.
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In my opinion, not much has changed for Fiora. Black Cleaver is certainly an option, but I still prefer the lifesteal and raw AD from Bloodthirster over the CDR and health of Black Cleaver, especially since more and more carries and tanks are building health over armor. Ravenous Hydra is a cool option, but again, unless you're doing a lot of split pushing I think it's still inferior to Bloodthirster.
Hexdrinker is still the go-to item in heavy magic damage lanes, Guardian Angel is still the best option after 2-3 damage items, Merc Treads are still the best boots against any team with CC (though I'll have to try Zephyr with Tabi or Zerks).
I lean towards DBlade over flask myself, because of Fiora's all-in power, relatively low mana costs, and modest health regen from passive. I'll give flask a go a few times - maybe with Tele and Hydra for a super split push style?
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I'm still sold on starting Flask+pots (maybe ward) on nearly every top/mid laner.
Build boots to counter lane.
Rush Brutalizer then Vamp Sceptre.
I will almost always turn my Vamp Sceptre into BotRK because of the HP stacking meta and its on-hit procs on every cast of your ult and the damage still hits for full even if your ult hits the same target. Plus the active slow on BotRK is VERY effective on Fiora since you have no other CC and it doesn't interrupt movement so its great for chasing and retreating.
Upgrade to Black Cleaver when they build armor.
The only adjustments I make is when to build armor/mr. My go to armor item is Randuins and for MR I get SV.
Hydra is nice but I still think BotRK is better in most cases although I've played around with both items.
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Ok guys, here's a thing. Fiora is fucking terribad in top lane blind pick, but she's actually insanely solid as a jungler now IF you build a tiamat. The key to playing her is to only gank when the stars are right, eg you have red, plenty of health and mana and a clean entrance. don't hang about trying to make things happen, farm farm farm. Your ganks will work better if the enemy isn't expecting you because you've left them well enough alone for most of the early game.
This is not a troll thing. Her opening jungle is rather weak, but she has a really nice level 4 gank when she has blue+red and lunge, parry and 2 ranks in BoS. If you can get an enemy halfway up lane, they're pretty much guaranteed dead even if they flash thanks to double lunge. If you can get that kill, you're set to become a monster.
Build is Mach+5pot >
Madreds and boots (+ longsword if you got the first gank kill) on your first back. >
from there rush tiamat, prioritising the longsword and pickaxe. Then grab whatever boots you feel appropriate (not merc treads) and zephyr (that's why not merc treads). From that point you can pretty much build tanky and still be pretty scary. the power of this build is her insane clear synergy once you get that tiamat built and BoS ranked.
Full build is something like ninja+hydra+zephyr+warmogs/randuins+spirit visage+wriggles(sell for a BT or trinity super late game).
Madreds+BoS+ tiamat will clear small camps in the duration of your BoS attack speed buff (often significantly less) and when fully ranked you then get a 45% movespeed boost to get you to the next camp. So you not only clear camps stupidly fast and economically, you get to the next camp stupidly fast to do it all over again. Once you have this set up, you can clear your jungle in insanely low times and have time to camp, counter jungle,counter gank or (my favourite XD) just go shove a lane when the enemy is roaming or just died. If you're doing it right you should easily be keeping up with your mid and top lane's farm, if not outdoing them and still having a reasonable amount of time to directly support your team, though this should rarely be your priority.
I reiterate that it is absolutely critical that you don't get big eyes early game and try and be a lane supporter. 1 gank before 6 is about right, and after that only when every camp is down and there aren't any really safe enemy camps to counter jungle until you get a couple of big items and start clearing your three small camps in sub 40 seconds. Failed ganks early game will really, really slow you down as she lacks sustain and is very mana hungry if you need to use all her abilities to clear smoothly. You want to get to the point where you only use BoS+Crescent in the jungle and can save your mana for ganks as quickly as possible.
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I actually think that Fiora's toplane is not that terrible. I mean it's risky in blind pick because there are a few lanes where you get shut down pretty hard but against most of the common tops you can at least survive and farm. In fact her hardest counters aren't even that popular in top lane anymore. If you don't feel comfortable with top lane Fiora you can always run her mid if you can convince your team. She has a lot of favorable match ups in mid lane.
I think the issue with jungle Fiora has always been that it's really risky. If the enemy team runs a gank centric jungler it's unlikely that your random solo queue lanes are going to be able to win with only limited support from their jungler (since you really aren't that great of a ganker and you can't really afford to gank that often). You're also combining the fact that you're gonna have less gold income than lane Fiora and she's a very gold hungry champion. If your lanes can do okay with very limited jungle support and your team can make the game go long enough for you to hit your item stride jungle Fiora is really strong. But just like every other carry jungler there are so many things that can go wrong that will just leave you feeling worthless.
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I disagree that you'll have less gold income than lane fiora. Just for example, I played a couple of games yesterday in a premade with a friend who is maybe 500-600 elo up on me right now, he was playing morg mid and getting free farm all day because he was up against terrible enemy laners, so it's fair to say he was getting close to optimum farm. I stayed even with him until about 10 minutes, at which point I started out CSing him hard and ended up with maybe 30% more. In both games I had more gold than him endgame despite the fact he got like eight or ten more kills/assists than me in both games, and in one of those games I had a fairly mediocre start (died ganking top early and lost my buffs).
The strength with fiora jungle is unless you have a super coordinated enemy team (which I admit I have gone up against and it was horrible) who constantly invades in groups to shut you down, you WILL get farmed and you WILL get to the point where you can carry fights.
I agree with you that solo que pubbers have difficulty holding off without support, and I do support a little, typically either a level 2 gank vs an overextending mid if my mid has some good CC, more commonly a level 4 gank once I have lunge and red which so far has about a 90% conversion rate, but I pick my ganks in advance and don't hang around trying to make them happen. I also abuse the overly ganky tendencies of most soloque junglers by counterjungling super hard when they gank otherwise show themselves, or by holding lanes safe once a gank has gone down and getting even more fed off the lane CS. It's a kind of selfish style of play, but it fits the common soloque wisdom of making sure YOU can carry the game, not relying on your team to do it for you. Consequently, I've literally never felt like I wasn't a massive contributor to victory by the time it happens. Which is every single time but one (I think I'm now 15-1 with her in normals) and that was a game where I had to try and carry against a rammus, shen, chogath and olaf. Fun times XD.
I know what you're saying about feeling worthless, that's the biggest issue I have with fiora lane, you go one way or the other. What I'm trying to say about the jungle is that if you play it right, you achieve a positive snowball FAR more consistently than in lane.
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You should upload some reps of jungle Fiora.
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yah, I prob should. I'm gonna see if I can capture a few games and stick em on youtube.
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Since she's on a free week now and I like jungling I tried it. Maybe I'm too low level, but I took way too much damage on the first clear (starting red) with damage masteries. 4/7/12 (biscuiteer!) felt better, but on the other hand damage was low.
Also, where do you start?
+ Show Spoiler +Also (2) spirit lizard + cdr boots + bruta + cdr mastery = lol.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
She's a terrible jungler in every single way. Her clear is extremely slow, she is worthless on low levels with fewer items and is probably worse than jungle Tryndamere in every single way, which says a LOT. If you want to jungle with her, I'd reccomend starting in a solo lane and then starting to periodically take wraiths or small golems once you finish Tiamat.
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Fiora isn't really fiora until she gets a tiamat which takes a fuckton of time to get to in the jungle. That being said shes the most wicked turn around mid and late game when she gets more out of control then any other champ. really provides the late game damage boost that lacks from most aoe comps but takes a very long time to get there and won't help your team out for 15 minutes.
I wouldn't really trust my team to survive without help for 15 minutes but shes really good for pub stomps and tryhard xj9 stylers.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
No, no she's not, because she farm ridiculously slowly compared to every single champion who has any amount of AoE whatsoever. Vi and Hecarim are "xj9 style" because they can clear their jungle quickly, something that Fiora is ABSOLUTELY unable to do.
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Do Blade of the Ruined King and Hydra (items that deal physical damage) proc her passive?
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Been trying Fiora a bit during free week as well, seems to be very strong. Quick question, do people just get hydra on her just because it makes her ult do aoe damage?
And why max W first, just because of extra attack damage? Some builds actually say to max W last and max Q first for its extra CDR and damage.
Lastly, why have I never seen her before in a tournament game... ;/
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disagree that fiora clears slowly. She clears slowly till she gets mads+zerks and level 6-7 or so. Then she clears like a friggin demon. BOS is possibly the best synergising skill with mads in the game. Once you have it up your clear is as fast as any of the other junglers, and when you have it and tiamat you clear faster than any other jungler I've played thanks to the retardedly strong haste you get from BOS.
She's not a ganky jungler, especially early game. She can pull off one really nasty gank at level 4 with 2 levels in E and blue/red on, but other than that you basically farm up mad+boots+tiamat as fast as possible and then you have all the time in the world to control the game because you clear your jungle in 30 seconds flat.
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i don't think how well you can farm camps after you've spent 3k+ on items to help you clear has any impact on how strong of a jungler that champ is.
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fiora is much stronger in any lane than in jungle
tiamat is still a gimmicky item and probably not worth buying
you'll do more ulting isolated squishy targets than trying to AoE a bunch of people down
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I personally think the ult is best used like Meditate, if Meditate made you completely untargetable, did tons of damage, and put you next to someone after it was over.
Agreed that Tiamat is gimmicky. The interaction between Tiamat and ult isn't enough to justify getting it instead of, say, Bloodthirster, unless either a) you're splitpushing hard or b) your team is really silly and is running Orianna + Diana or something. Fiora wants as much attack damage and lifesteal as she can get, maybe some armor pen, definitely some %pen later in the game, and survivability (ideally GA).
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On February 15 2013 04:57 Tooplark wrote:
I personally think the ult is best used like Meditate, if Meditate made you completely untargetable, did tons of damage, and put you next to someone after it was over.
Agreed that Tiamat is gimmicky. The interaction between Tiamat and ult isn't enough to justify getting it instead of, say, Bloodthirster, unless either a) you're splitpushing hard or b) your team is really silly and is running Orianna + Diana or something. Fiora wants as much attack damage and lifesteal as she can get, maybe some armor pen, definitely some %pen later in the game, and survivability (ideally GA).
IMO BOTRK > Bloodthirster. You're unlikely to build crit, your Q has a pretty low AD ratio but puts you in a position to immediately autoattack, the active gives you an additional form of sticking power when Burst of Speed wears off, and Blade waltz will hit with the full power of BOTRK Passive 5 times, allowing you to regain a LOT of health when you ulti.
If you're not going for Hydra out of the Vamp Scepter, go for BOTRK.
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What are people generally building on Fiora these days, BotRK seems like an item that would work really well with her, but I have problems with figuring out a build that would transition into it.
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On February 14 2013 11:23 rhs408 wrote:
Been trying Fiora a bit during free week as well, seems to be very strong. Quick question, do people just get hydra on her just because it makes her ult do aoe damage?
And why max W first, just because of extra attack damage? Some builds actually say to max W last and max Q first for its extra CDR and damage.
Lastly, why have I never seen her before in a tournament game... ;/
Your skill order is completely dependent on the lane you're against. In lanes against ranged or really squishy targets I'd max Q (against squishy melee you might be better off maxing E). In lane against say Darius you max E because maxing E lets you out duel Darius (since E is probably the best dueling spell in the game). I typically get a point in W early and maybe a second point after I get ult but Q is way better for lane bullying and harassing while E helps you win trades a lot more than W. Level 1 W grants you 15 AD though so you really do want a point in W at level 1 or 2 (if I midlane Fiora I usually get Q at level 1 because you rape most APs at level 1 with Q).
Hydra is kind of gimmicky as was mentioned but late game I'll sometimes pick one up anyways because the extra lifesteal/AD is nice and the passive really does synchronize well with your ult (it also lets you split push like a maniac late game). Plus I've always loved Tiamat.
If you're still playing her in a lot of games you've likely discovered why she doesn't get run in tournaments. An organized team can shut her down really hard. You can get fed and still have a limited impact in team fights if the enemy team plays it well. With that said I think that against low CC teams she's really strong so the only time you'd see her in a tournament game is as a last pick against a low CC team in my opinion.
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XJ9 is streaming jungle Fiora right now, seems pretty legit...
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Yeah, I really don't get the hate. I mean, she's not like a Vi or shyvana, clearin them camps in five seconds at level 1, but she's as solid as a lot of other junglers. Very red buff dependent early for ganks, but you don't pick her into a comp that depends on heavy early lane pressure, you pick her on a comp that can hold their lanes and support your counterjungling, because fiora with madreds and level 3 burst of speed can clear a big creep with one skill in less than three seconds, then get the hell out presto. Whenever a xin or whathaveyou ganks, you take half their jungle and get another 150 gold and experience, deny them the same amount. So they only end up even if their gank succeeds, and they end up behind on XP regardless. If the gank fails or trades, you get about a kill's advantage without ever having to stick your head in a lane.
Once you've done that twice, you're probably ahead enough you can start stomping lanes. I really don't like the attitude that every jungler has to have amazing early clear, super strong early ganks and so on. That's one kind of jungler, usually with attendant drawbacks (unless you're xin XD). Every game I've played vs xin, the most OP as heck early game jungler, I've stomped him. He ends up 3 kills ahead but 10 big creeps down on me by 15 minutes, and after I get to tiamat I end up doubling his CS and kills by 30 minutes. She scales so strongly it's just not even funny.
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On March 05 2013 07:08 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
Yeah, I really don't get the hate. I mean, she's not like a Vi or shyvana, clearin them camps in five seconds at level 1, but she's as solid as a lot of other junglers. Very red buff dependent early for ganks, but you don't pick her into a comp that depends on heavy early lane pressure, you pick her on a comp that can hold their lanes and support your counterjungling, because fiora with madreds and level 3 burst of speed can clear a big creep with one skill in less than three seconds, then get the hell out presto. Whenever a xin or whathaveyou ganks, you take half their jungle and get another 150 gold and experience, deny them the same amount. So they only end up even if their gank succeeds, and they end up behind on XP regardless. If the gank fails or trades, you get about a kill's advantage without ever having to stick your head in a lane.
Once you've done that twice, you're probably ahead enough you can start stomping lanes. I really don't like the attitude that every jungler has to have amazing early clear, super strong early ganks and so on. That's one kind of jungler, usually with attendant drawbacks (unless you're xin XD). Every game I've played vs xin, the most OP as heck early game jungler, I've stomped him. He ends up 3 kills ahead but 10 big creeps down on me by 15 minutes, and after I get to tiamat I end up doubling his CS and kills by 30 minutes. She scales so strongly it's just not even funny.
Well, I'd have to argue that counterjungling, especially counterjungling a gank-heavy jungler, doesn't actually deny them significant farm unless you're stealing a buff. Due to short respawn times, I pretty much just go "meh" whenever I see some of my creeps are missing.
The other advantage to gank-heavy junglers is swinging lanes. A successful gank doesn't just get the jungler gold and experience - it gets the laner gold and experience, as well as giving them better control of their lane. Furthermore, the greater threat of ganks adds a hidden pressure to ALL the lanes. The net effect of the lane control and map control provided by a strong jungler is that your laners can farm more and deny farm to the opposing laners.
Of course, it's possible to pick your team in order to minimize or even remove this disadvantage, but I don't think it's worth it. Fiora has a hard enough time carrying when she's dominating her lane; putting her into jungle, dropping her first 1k on madreds, and relying on controlling enemy buffs is very risky.
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well, for starters you obviously only take the big creeps so the respawn timers don't reset till they clear them. The only camp I normally fully clear is golems if I'm hanging around top lane and their jungler appears mid or bot. Most junglers just ignore them so it's basically an extra camp for me. I typically end up 2-4 levels ahead of the opposing jungler by midgame, even if they have several more K/A than I do and close CS, so don't underestimate the power of denying ten or so big creeps, buff or not.
as you say, ganking has its merits, and fiora can do that too. She's incredibly dangerous against someone who's pushed up or overconfident after getting a gank from their own jungler, I'm not saying don't gank at all, just that your time is better spent roaming their jungle taking big creeps than waiting patiently for gank opportunities. Especially in soloque, if you play like this people get cocky and soon enough you don't need to wait around to make plays, they just happen of their own accord.
Also, I honestly think her jungle farm is better than her lane farm. There aren't many lanes where a fiora can get optimal CS either because she has to be very careful of her opponent or because she's constantly trading and having to go back regularly due to low mana. In the jungle I frequently keep up with the mid and top laners and even get ahead of them if I get FB on someone with a level 4 doublebuff gank. I get a lot of complaints that I don't gank enough, but I rarely lose games when I play her simply because I end up outscaling the enemy team hard and being able to take two turrets and an inhib in the time it takes the enemy team to siege down an outer turret 5v4, then come in behind them for the ace after they've dived the turret under the pressure.
I totally admit Fiora is not a team player, she's a nidalee or a teemo style champ who primarily wins games through disruption and harassment. This in no way makes her bad, just different.
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On March 05 2013 11:03 Tooplark wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 07:08 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
Yeah, I really don't get the hate. I mean, she's not like a Vi or shyvana, clearin them camps in five seconds at level 1, but she's as solid as a lot of other junglers. Very red buff dependent early for ganks, but you don't pick her into a comp that depends on heavy early lane pressure, you pick her on a comp that can hold their lanes and support your counterjungling, because fiora with madreds and level 3 burst of speed can clear a big creep with one skill in less than three seconds, then get the hell out presto. Whenever a xin or whathaveyou ganks, you take half their jungle and get another 150 gold and experience, deny them the same amount. So they only end up even if their gank succeeds, and they end up behind on XP regardless. If the gank fails or trades, you get about a kill's advantage without ever having to stick your head in a lane.
Once you've done that twice, you're probably ahead enough you can start stomping lanes. I really don't like the attitude that every jungler has to have amazing early clear, super strong early ganks and so on. That's one kind of jungler, usually with attendant drawbacks (unless you're xin XD). Every game I've played vs xin, the most OP as heck early game jungler, I've stomped him. He ends up 3 kills ahead but 10 big creeps down on me by 15 minutes, and after I get to tiamat I end up doubling his CS and kills by 30 minutes. She scales so strongly it's just not even funny. Well, I'd have to argue that counterjungling, especially counterjungling a gank-heavy jungler, doesn't actually deny them significant farm unless you're stealing a buff. Due to short respawn times, I pretty much just go "meh" whenever I see some of my creeps are missing. The other advantage to gank-heavy junglers is swinging lanes. A successful gank doesn't just get the jungler gold and experience - it gets the laner gold and experience, as well as giving them better control of their lane. Furthermore, the greater threat of ganks adds a hidden pressure to ALL the lanes. The net effect of the lane control and map control provided by a strong jungler is that your laners can farm more and deny farm to the opposing laners. Of course, it's possible to pick your team in order to minimize or even remove this disadvantage, but I don't think it's worth it. Fiora has a hard enough time carrying when she's dominating her lane; putting her into jungle, dropping her first 1k on madreds, and relying on controlling enemy buffs is very risky.
What you really want to do when you're trying to be a big counterjungler, is fight the enemy jungler in their jungle. That basically says to your team "fear no ganks for the next (1-2) minutes" depending on how successful you are. It also sets them behind. But I'm not sure Fiora is strong enough of a duelist to do this, especially with potential laner interference.
Example: Can a doublebuff Level3 Fiora really beat a doublebuff level3 Xin in his own jungle? Do you have enough health after clearing your own red? If you're both full health and have a razor and level 4, who wins? What if you went earlier (level 2?) and tried to fight him at his red? What if you start his red and he shows up?
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Alright, I've watched enough streams/spectated enough matches of Fioras go AD runes over ArPen runes. I've created a spreadsheet which decisively shows how subpar AD runes are for Fiora compared to ArPen runes. At basically every point of the game (minus level 1 with a Q start), Fiora does more damage with ArPen than AD.
Spreadsheets Here
I make the assumption of a Dorans/Longsword on Fiora, rather then a fort pot start (makes AD runes even less worth) or some other start.
It's also included with a general AD rune vs ArPen rune comparison spreadsheet (second one: if you want to view it, download the whole thing), standard, with brut, with LW, and with both.
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Yes fioras high base values and in built ad steriod make arpen much better than ad
however assuming every fiora player is an elite fliora theorycraft master is another thing coming
nobody plays fiora so people just pick whatever rune page is lying around when they do
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Cool spreadsheet, I'm proud to say I've always ran her with armor pen runes, although thats because I don't own AD runes ... I am still waiting for the inevitable Fiora buff from Riot, if people continue not playing her, it must happen! Then I will crush everyone.
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Riot isn't going to buff Fiora for the same reason they won't buff Yi or Tryndamere - melee carries are far more playable at low skill levels than at high ones.
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On May 03 2013 02:27 Tooplark wrote:
Riot isn't going to buff Fiora for the same reason they won't buff Yi or Tryndamere - melee carries are far more playable at low skill levels than at high ones.
Which is why we AP yi/tryn 
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On May 02 2013 20:40 Slayer91 wrote:
Yes fioras high base values and in built ad steriod make arpen much better than ad
however assuming every fiora player is an elite fliora theorycraft master is another thing coming
nobody plays fiora so people just pick whatever rune page is lying around when they do
I understand that; however, it's strange given free permanent fort pot starting level 1-2 and high base spell damages all point towards a full arpen runepage.
I also made the spreadsheet on a spur of the moment, watching a Fiora (with full AD runes) on spectate that lost to a Kennen top (whaaaaa). Then again, Laut was beasting that game with jungle Elise, so eh, but still.
On May 03 2013 02:27 Tooplark wrote:
Riot isn't going to buff Fiora for the same reason they won't buff Yi or Tryndamere - melee carries are far more playable at low skill levels than at high ones.
They're looking towards a Fiora buff, though they're also talking about introducing items to make melee carries "assassiny".
The Fiora buff in question is allowing her W to block on hits (it'll improve a number of top lane matchups a shitton, see Darius as a glaring example), but from...Morello, I do believe, the change is taxing on the programming/mechanical side, so it's not being pushed as a priority over other changes.
If it comes through, it'll be a huge buff, just shhhhhh.
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On May 04 2013 03:45 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:40 Slayer91 wrote:
Yes fioras high base values and in built ad steriod make arpen much better than ad
however assuming every fiora player is an elite fliora theorycraft master is another thing coming
nobody plays fiora so people just pick whatever rune page is lying around when they do I understand that; however, it's strange given free permanent fort pot starting level 1-2 and high base spell damages all point towards a full arpen runepage.
If you understand it, it's not strange, if you're not going to play fiora regularly then you won't bother setting up a new runepage. Also a lot of players don't really care about the math side of things and just go on " feel ".
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Holy crap she is annoying to vs in mid lane. Played TF vs her with armor yellows and I went cloth 5 and I still couldn't lane against her. At level 6 she Qs twice, ults and Qs again and I'm dead.
God I hate ad mid -_-
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On May 22 2013 11:16 schmutttt wrote:
Holy crap she is annoying to vs in mid lane. Played TF vs her with armor yellows and I went cloth 5 and I still couldn't lane against her. At level 6 she Qs twice, ults and Qs again and I'm dead.
God I hate ad mid -_-
Fiora ruins squishies in lane but her teamfighting is pretty meh and there's so much shit in this game that forces her ult to be worthless and go on CD. You either get fed as Fiora and end the game fast or you become a pretty mediocre split pusher.
Fiora might increase in popularity though if top lane Kennen catches on again since it's popular in Korea and Fiora dumps on him in lane. Although I guess you'd just end up with a lane swap and Fiora's 1v2 is awful.
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THIS GUY IS HELLA FUN WTF WHY NOT VIABLE
are there any major changes that i should be aware of in the new season about skills or items
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any1 dares to try blue fiora? I have a feeling that muramana + ult is op.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Dont seem like you have enough mana problems to justify getting tear and significantly weakening your laning phase basically until your muramana is complete.
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Do we have a preliminary build yet from anyone who has played new Fiora? I'm debating on trying her out.
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Played a game last night where i had a mid fiora on my team, he crushed lane going the same build as old Fiora mid.
Tiamat >brut >lw
We lost because i was irelia our bot lane lost so our teamfight was abysmal even if i got my one shot off on the opposing Vayne
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On August 08 2015 03:00 Ethelis wrote:
Do we have a preliminary build yet from anyone who has played new Fiora? I'm debating on trying her out.
Here's a few builds
http://www.probuilds.net/champions/Fiora
I played her once last night. You'll still need a Tiamat/Hydra first item for waveclear. It looks like you need a phage item for increased move speed to hit all the vitals during your ult. Looks like cool down items are important for extra Qs (I think Q is an AA reset now) for both damage and escape potential while splitting. Also more Es for more crits, slows, and attack speed boosts.
I kept forgetting she even had an escape tool. It's nice, but she doesn't take towers down as fast as she used to when she's left alone.
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Hmm, thanks. Those are helpful starting points. I'll post here if I find anything that stands out (after grinding 4500ip...).
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hydra and BC are necessary, after that depends. IE should probably be your last item for the crit burst.
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Why not play her triforce bork into tank like jax or irelia?
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because then you would just play jax or irelia. her ad scaling is immense you can have a 700 base E late game thats guaranteed to crit
not even counting that basically everything in her kit also scales off AD heavily. why you would get botrk over hydra i have no idea when she has that and zero waveclear
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On August 14 2015 17:34 gobbledydook wrote:
Why not play her triforce bork into tank like jax or irelia?
BotRK is garbage on her and she honestly has no trouble gap closing if she's in Q range. Irelia and Jax gap closers are both 6 seconds on champ cast; Fiora's is 3.2 base. That is really tiny.
Hydra->Phage item seems ideal so far. Cleaver usually, Tforce if you're ahead. Then some mix of BT/LW/IE/Maw, possibly Sterak in 5.16 because decent base AD and strong teamfight passive. If you need armor, your only real option is boots or a late thornmail.
I think she's actually *really* good, at least in soloq. If you get even a little ahead and play well, you can turn all sorts of shit with ult. I thought that heal would suck, but if you use it right and proc it quickly, it's disgusting.
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So much damage is tied into her ult and passive it feels like. Am I crazy for considering IBG? Even with BC speed boost I find it annoying to proc all 4 vitals on ults.
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You can get Fiora's Q to a 2 second cooldown with 40% CDR if it hits an enemy.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://s11.postimage.org/qv9pummc3/Capture.jpg)
