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ive played talon and fiora extensively and they are completely different. talon is a true ad caster. fiora is a auto attack champ. late game they will both wreck things. calling fiora an ad caster is baffling to me.
i jungle fiora like i said on pg 1. cloth, boots, wriggles, hog, black cleaver is core for me. i cant decide how viable she is but she does carry real hard. i get more ppl telling me fiora is op then almost any other champ i play besides skarner. fiora ult at lvl 6 for diving is so fun.
she feels pretty good in the jungle. start cloth, get w for the free ad, get some attack speed reds and at lvl 1 you have quite the ensemble going on.
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fiora is trash in the jungle, why jungle her when stuff like naut or nocturne exists. just play her top =/ with wriggles go either ghost or IE and lw and wreck people if you snowball your lane.
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The enemy junglers must be really bad at jungling then. Fiora has absolutely no AoE, so her jungle clear time is sub-par. Champs like Nocturne, Mundo, and Nautilus can clear camps significantly faster than her, so she is much more susceptible to counter-jungling. You are already at a disadvantage in the jungle. She also has absolutely no CC to speak of. Her ganks are significantly weaker than the aforementioned junglers. She has some pretty strong steroids (bonus AD and an attack speed buff), but the lack of CC makes her a lot less scary than she should be. IMO, laning Fiora is significantly better than jungling. You need a lot of money to make her actually scale well (BT, LW, GA), and you can't get that money from jungling. Your steroids will let you out trade the opposing laner (typically).
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What do you guys think about maxing E first in the jungle instead of W? It seems to me that it gives her much better sticking power through her movement speed boost and it also ups your clear speed significantly.
Lately I've been starting with W, then taking E, and Q once I hit 3 for ganking, maxing E first and have been having much better success than with W jungle.
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lol fiora does fine in the jungle. you can take them 1v1 if they invade you know. fiora has 2 gap closers and one of the best ults for diving. fiora's clear is fast too, especially once u get wriggles u just decimate all the camps. even her first clear isnt that bad, it's not the fastest but it's not the slowest either (i havent timed them but i would bet fiora's first clear is faster then naut) and once you get madreds/wriggles you can kill golems in less then 5 sec.
i go w first and then e. the free ad on w and the active both help in clearing the jungle. E is also on a long cool down with a short duration, this is the main point of why w is better to max. when you max e you have long stretches where e isnt up and your clear is so slow. This was a bit counterintuitive but it's true. i have tried both and will never max e first again. not to mention maxing w first maximizes the parry damage early enough that it does significant damage to creeps.
i highly suggest atk spd reds to make your first clear as fast as possible. i jungle almost all my games with a wide range of champs, and am very sensitive to clear speeds as i tend to spend most of my time farming my jungle. fioras clear starts off in the lower end, but quickly (like when u complete madreds) your speed jumps up to near the top, and she might even have the fastest golem kill time.
i wouldnt pick fiora if the other team has mundo or shyv etc. but i wouldnt pick a lot of junglers if i was against mundo or shyv. situationally fiora is fine and even solid in the jungle. You just have to know what u are doing. She has one of the earliest dragons too which is an advantage.
Shyv doesn't have cc either. But most shyv take exhaust like Fiora should do also.
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this thread made me pull fiora off the shelf and give her another chance. and ive been hooked ever since. i play her jungle or top if someone else is jungling and once u figure out how she works you can do awesome things. ive probably played her 75% of my games the last 3 weeks and i have won 75% of those.
the thing about fiora is it is extremely risky for just about every champ ive come across to trade with her, i just played a game where i waited patiently for lvl 3 against a panth top lane. i let him bully me a bit before then but once i got all my skills i just jumped on him, ignited him, and got first blood.
she has quickly become one of my favorite junglers too. with wriggles (or just madreds) you clear the jungle amazingly fast (dragon is also easily soloable as soon as you finish wriggles). she has a bit of sustain with her passive and w blocks a full attack. she is a bit like shyvana. you have no cc but u have a movespeed burst ability, and 2 gap closers that actually proc movespeed, and with red or exhaust (mandatory imo), you can easily snowball. also her ult is one of the best for lvl 6 diving.
she is situational in the jungle tho (actually situational top also but if you dont pick her into a bad lane you can wreck faces). i wouldnt pick her into a mundo, trundle, or shyv jungle (mundo is seemingly unbeatable, and if i am going to first pick fiora i ban mundo), and shyv is doable actually but i prefer not to deal with it. no one plays trundle but i could see him beating fiora at early lvls. against any other jungler you just have to fight them once and they will not invade without backup again. not to mention with wriggles FIORA can steal buffs/camps in literally seconds. i dont think there are any junglers that can kill a buff golem as fast as fiora with wriggles.
i dont know what else to say. if you give her a shot (atk spd red, armor yellow, mres blue, ad or arpen quint for jungling, start cloth, w-e-w-q) and learn to use her skills together u will do well. the first few games i was surprised at how well i did. ive come to realize she is just very strong at pretty much all phases of the game.
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Fiora in Jungle is so blah. Sure Shyvana has no CC but she has insane AoE clear times and great dueling.
Fiora has an AS boost, an AD boost and a double gap closer. At 6 she has an "invulnerable" ult that deals good damage. She belongs top lane or mid lane. She needs too much farm for jungle, farms too slowly for jungle, and has crappy ganks. However she has great sustain for laning (x4 if you hit a champ,) great 1v1 damage and an auto attack deflection. As well as her steroids and gap closers. She performs so much better top than in the jungle. I have no problem 1 picking her in ranked the only "real" counter she has is Malphite who is just a cunt right now. Everyone else is doable.
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With the recent buff on Fiora's ult, I've been thinking of trying her out, but what prevents ppl from picking fiora more often?
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Her W puts a barrier looking thing on her, and E is a simple steroid. Visually she's not very fun which might've kept a lot of people from trying her.
Jungle Fiora has a more reliable gank than Shyvana does though. Speed boost into 2 dashes can at least guaruntee you can damage the enemy, even if you can't kill them without red.
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On July 08 2012 03:12 Deltablazy wrote: With the recent buff on Fiora's ult, I've been thinking of trying her out, but what prevents ppl from picking fiora more often?
She's basically a 1v1 duelist/pubstomp champion; there's really no team value that she offers.
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vaporized, what's your summoner name?
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xeroborn. i just started playing ranked again yesterday cuz i moved and didnt have my desktop only my laptop (which lags). i got my desktop and went 1-1 in ranked with fiora so far (jungling her that is). the first game i went 8-2-8 and we won ez. the second game i started 5-0-0 and then my team just went to shit. 1-12 kennen at the end. we lost that one. the next game i jungled i went skarner and went 12-1-17 lol. i wanted to win that one. like i said, fiora is situational, but effective in the right spots.
and i am low elo. take my opinions for what they are worth. but i am fairly obviously the best player in most if not all my games. i went 4-1 in ranked yesterday, first ranked games in a month, and carried hard all 4 of the wins.
the last few weeks i would play normal drafts because my laptop sucks, and i got interested in fiora jungle. i wanted to see how fiora stacked up against a wide variety of teams and enemy junglers. ive won so many normal drafts lately i get much better teammates in those games then my ranked games. over 40+ games i think fiora is fine to possibly quite good in the jungle and i will keep playing her there.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 08 2012 08:34 Vaporized wrote:xeroborn. i just started playing ranked again yesterday cuz i moved and didnt have my desktop only my laptop (which lags). i got my desktop and went 1-1 in ranked with fiora so far (jungling her that is). the first game i went 8-2-8 and we won ez. the second game i started 5-0-0 and then my team just went to shit. 1-12 kennen at the end. we lost that one. the next game i jungled i went skarner and went 12-1-17 lol. i wanted to win that one. like i said, fiora is situational, but effective in the right spots. and i am low elo. take my opinions for what they are worth. but i am fairly obviously the best player in most if not all my games. i went 4-1 in ranked yesterday, first ranked games in a month, and carried hard all 4 of the wins. the last few weeks i would play normal drafts because my laptop sucks, and i got interested in fiora jungle. i wanted to see how fiora stacked up against a wide variety of teams and enemy junglers. ive won so many normal drafts lately i get much better teammates in those games then my ranked games. over 40+ games i think fiora is fine to possibly quite good in the jungle and i will keep playing her there. + Show Spoiler +
Glad to see my thread inspired someone :D Can you recommend a jungler build and I will add it to the OP for those interested?
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ya im glad you made this thread, thanks man. i hadnt played fiora in months and then i saw your thread and pulled her out for a few games and now im hooked. she is a blast imo.
for jungle i go atk spd reds, armor yellow, mres blue, armpen quints. summoners get smite and exhaust (exhaust is crucial). start cloth 5 and open w. this setup is amazing at lvl 1. you get atk speed, +15 ad from w, cloth armor, and armor pen.
start wolves then blue (i ask for a leash every game no matter what jungler im playing, fiora is no different). i like the standard wraiths, wolves, red, wraiths, golems lvl 4 path. and oftentimes you will have pots left over at the end. skill order is w-e-w-q, then r-w-e-q. maxing e first is a huge mistake in the jungle.
for ganks i like to start at lvl 4 with red buff and boots. depending on the angle and how pushed your opponent is you can either lead off with a q to close the gap, or even better is running up on them and then using q to catch up when the enemy flashes. if you are smart about how you use your skills here you can easily get a kill. use w if they turn to attack you, an e-q-q combo with red + exhaust is often enough to let you auto a few times and get a kill. it also never gets old when someone kills themselves off a w proc.
at lvl 6 ganking becomes a lot more interesting. you can dive very effectively with your ult. use your e-q-q combo to hopefully get them down around 1/3 health and then ult and you will get the kill. one other thing ive found useful is if a big fight is going on bot lane and low health enemies are heading back to their tower you can run in and ult them (ask your lane to push minions if at all possible), and hopefully get a double kill.
i get the same items every game: cloth, boots, wriggles, hog, merc treads, black cleaver. the wriggles is the big one there. you want to finish madreds ASAP as it lets you clear absurdly fast. and as soon as you finish wriggles you can go straight to dragon and solo it (at lvl 7 is possible with 2-3 potions, lvl 8 you might need 1 potion, you will have lvl 2 e which helps a lot). once you get wriggles then fiora suddenly becomes the invade threat, you kill camps so fast.
the rest of the item build is situational. just get whatever you need. if you are getting blown up get frozen mallet, more sustain get bt, more damage get ie or pd. if i need resists i get randuins or force of nature.
also of note is fiora's split pushing ability. fiora kills towers comically fast. there was one game where the whole enemy team was pushing down bot. i pushed down their 2nd top tower and their 3rd tower + inhib, and my team was able to defend our inhib with the turrets help. that play basically won us the game. once i played that game i take advantage of this whenever possible. if a lane is losing then run in when the enemy goes back and kill the turret asap. this lets your laner roam, or at the least get out of a bad lane, and also gives you a lane to go farm guilt free when possible.
thats how i do it. she brings a lot of interesting things to the table, like amazing split pushing, absurd damage all game long, and early dragon control that imo balance out her lack of cc or tankiness. the sports analogy 'the best defense is a good offense' i think applies to fiora quite well. if the enemy is dead then you dont have to cc or tank anything.
edit: i forgot matchups. i only pick fiora if i know what their jungler is. shyv, mundo, udyr, trundle are all bad matchups. against those guys i like to pick one of the others (or skarner) so at least i can keep up. any other jungler i found fiora does fine. even shyv is actually doable, you can kill her at low lvls, but it can be obnoxious. mundo i either ban if im first pick and want to play fiora, or i just pick shyv myself if the other guy picks mundo. ive never actually jungled fiora against mundo but i just dont see it working out for fiora at all. fiora's first clear is not the fastest or the slowest, you can hit 4 at 3:50-4:00, and from then on you just wreck the jungle so fast, including possibly the fastest buff golem kill times of any champ once you get madreds/wriggles.
one last point: in champ select or in a premade team get either top or support to pick a good tank like malph, ali, or leona. if there is one thing fiora does not do it is tank.
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I think you should try master yi tbh
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@Vaporized, didn't agree at all with what you were saying so I checked your profile to see if you were low elo or not
That's irrelevant though just posting to tell advise you that you should never ever build attk speed on fiora. Ever. Huge waste of money.
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fiora isnt for everyone or every game. however, if you learn how to use her correctly you can make plays all game long. at first i thought i was getting lucky or the enemy team sucked. ive played so many games with her now that i have come to the conclusion that she is just really strong. i really only lose if my lanes are hopeless, and if thats the case i would lose no matter what jungler i had picked. like the game i lost yesterday where the kennen was 1-12, i started this game 5-0 and my laners got assists. a few minutes later all of them had died (kennen multiple times), i can only do so much.
i dont honestly care if you think she is good or not. i didnt know if she was good so i played her a bunch the last few weeks. after a wide variety of games where i get fed, where i dont get fed, where my lanes win, or my lanes lose, i have come to the conclusion that she is very good.
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On July 08 2012 10:21 Feartheguru wrote: @Vaporized, didn't agree at all with what you were saying so I checked your profile to see if you were low elo or not
That's irrelevant though just posting to tell advise you that you should never ever build attk speed on fiora. Ever. Huge waste of money. see now that is where you are just plain wrong.
i started out my jungle fiora oddysey with ad runes. this slows down your first clear (her first clear is the slowest and making it as fast as possible is extremely important). lvl 1 w gives you 15 ad. this is more then a long sword, you dont need ad runes. i made custom games to try ad vs atk spd red runes and how it affected clear times. its no contest atk spd is better. you clear faster, which means you need less pots.
and i dont know how fiora is at higher elos. i do know that not everyone is 2k and at lower lvls you have to carry yourself. for those people looking to carry themselves my build works very well, and is the result of many, many games of trial and error to figure out what works best. when i first got fiora i tried jungling her with e max and ad runes, this was unacceptable to me in clear speed, e has a long cooldown and is only up for 3 sec out of ~10-15. it wasnt until i went back to her more recently and tried w max and atk spd runes that i was pleasantly surprised by how she does, surprised enough that i was motivated to keep playing her to see what else i could do.
there are 100 champs in this game with dozens of items to build and runes and masteries to change around. it is extremely close-minded to assume that fiora cant do well in a variety of situations or that there is one way that is the best to build her. trust me, if i was unsatisfied in any way with how she played or her jungle ability i wouldnt have played her for the last month almost. some aspects of the build are counterintuitive (atk spd reds and maxing w over e), i found them to be counterintuitive myself and these were certainly not the first things i tried. but its what worked the best.
i dont think its a coincidence that when i jungle fiora sometimes people are wary, but (and this really surprised me the first few times) just as often people will say she is op or strong. people that have taken the time to learn how to play her know how strong she can be.
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You have a 130% attk speed steroid which lasts a few seconds. Realistically in a fight you'll enter a few seconds after it begins auto with e on for at most the duration then get focused and have to move away or ulti. Afterwards e will be back soon and after that the fight is decided. That's how 80% of the fights will happen. You won't have huge periods of time where e is down and you're in someone's face, it just doesn't happen. Attk speed on top of 130% steroid is really wasteful. If you look at all the popular guides no one builds attk speed. Just try wriggles-->bt-->ga/lw-->ga/lw-->bt. It'll work a lot better.
Also nothing is counter-intuitive about attk speed reds (necessary for decent jungle speed) and maxing w (pretty clearly more dps in the jungle from simple mental math)
P.S. Why is it close minded to say a champ can't be built a certain way? Building ap on fiora would be an obvious error, something like attk speed of fiora would have much less detrimental effect but I can't imagine why suggesting that there is some detriment would be considered close minded.
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On July 08 2012 09:52 Vaporized wrote: ya im glad you made this thread, thanks man. i hadnt played fiora in months and then i saw your thread and pulled her out for a few games and now im hooked. she is a blast imo.
for jungle i go atk spd reds, armor yellow, mres blue, armpen quints. summoners get smite and exhaust (exhaust is crucial). start cloth 5 and open w. this setup is amazing at lvl 1. you get atk speed, +15 ad from w, cloth armor, and armor pen.
start wolves then blue (i ask for a leash every game no matter what jungler im playing, fiora is no different). i like the standard wraiths, wolves, red, wraiths, golems lvl 4 path. and oftentimes you will have pots left over at the end. skill order is w-e-w-q, then r-w-e-q. maxing e first is a huge mistake in the jungle.
for ganks i like to start at lvl 4 with red buff and boots. depending on the angle and how pushed your opponent is you can either lead off with a q to close the gap, or even better is running up on them and then using q to catch up when the enemy flashes. if you are smart about how you use your skills here you can easily get a kill. use w if they turn to attack you, an e-q-q combo with red + exhaust is often enough to let you auto a few times and get a kill. it also never gets old when someone kills themselves off a w proc.
at lvl 6 ganking becomes a lot more interesting. you can dive very effectively with your ult. use your e-q-q combo to hopefully get them down around 1/3 health and then ult and you will get the kill. one other thing ive found useful is if a big fight is going on bot lane and low health enemies are heading back to their tower you can run in and ult them (ask your lane to push minions if at all possible), and hopefully get a double kill.
i get the same items every game: cloth, boots, wriggles, hog, merc treads, black cleaver. the wriggles is the big one there. you want to finish madreds ASAP as it lets you clear absurdly fast. and as soon as you finish wriggles you can go straight to dragon and solo it (at lvl 7 is possible with 2-3 potions, lvl 8 you might need 1 potion, you will have lvl 2 e which helps a lot). once you get wriggles then fiora suddenly becomes the invade threat, you kill camps so fast.
the rest of the item build is situational. just get whatever you need. if you are getting blown up get frozen mallet, more sustain get bt, more damage get ie or pd. if i need resists i get randuins or force of nature.
also of note is fiora's split pushing ability. fiora kills towers comically fast. there was one game where the whole enemy team was pushing down bot. i pushed down their 2nd top tower and their 3rd tower + inhib, and my team was able to defend our inhib with the turrets help. that play basically won us the game. once i played that game i take advantage of this whenever possible. if a lane is losing then run in when the enemy goes back and kill the turret asap. this lets your laner roam, or at the least get out of a bad lane, and also gives you a lane to go farm guilt free when possible.
thats how i do it. she brings a lot of interesting things to the table, like amazing split pushing, absurd damage all game long, and early dragon control that imo balance out her lack of cc or tankiness. the sports analogy 'the best defense is a good offense' i think applies to fiora quite well. if the enemy is dead then you dont have to cc or tank anything.
edit: i forgot matchups. i only pick fiora if i know what their jungler is. shyv, mundo, udyr, trundle are all bad matchups. against those guys i like to pick one of the others (or skarner) so at least i can keep up. any other jungler i found fiora does fine. even shyv is actually doable, you can kill her at low lvls, but it can be obnoxious. mundo i either ban if im first pick and want to play fiora, or i just pick shyv myself if the other guy picks mundo. ive never actually jungled fiora against mundo but i just dont see it working out for fiora at all. fiora's first clear is not the fastest or the slowest, you can hit 4 at 3:50-4:00, and from then on you just wreck the jungle so fast, including possibly the fastest buff golem kill times of any champ once you get madreds/wriggles.
one last point: in champ select or in a premade team get either top or support to pick a good tank like malph, ali, or leona. if there is one thing fiora does not do it is tank.
Sounds like a great build to me, I may have to try this next time I play. I've added your post to the "other build suggestions" tag in the OP 
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