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On April 13 2014 03:27 little fancy wrote:
So, I've been testing MF lately after her tweak.
She hasn't lost much of her laning presence and her 6 item ultimate feels a little stronger than before. The mana cost reduction is very nice, too.
However, I don't think it will cause her popularity to increase significantly (just like Graves who got a small buffs). Lacking the steroids (besides her W) that other current top ADs have and being very reliant on Flash, it doesn't look like she's going to be the beast she was.
Her laning is STRONGER now because of the reduction on Q CD, flat buff to W and mana-cost reductions across the board. Ult took an early game hit but feels just as strong in the late game, if not stronger because you can follow up on targets who already have impure stacks on them.
Lack of an escape will always be her drawback, but her passive makes it easier to keep safe to begin with. Diving assassins and tanks will continue to be the bane of her existence.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
At the end of the day, you're still playing MF lol. The moment someone dives at you, you die.
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On April 15 2014 04:20 Roffles wrote:
At the end of the day, you're still playing MF lol. The moment someone dives at you, you die.
With the heal change making double heal significantly weaker she might work well with exhaust as protection against assassins. Personally I've always enjoyed mf simply because her ult lets her contribute something usefull from a safe distance during the early stages of a teamfight (where other ADCs have to position far closer to have an influence), and her passive does make running down people at the end of a teamfight a breeze.
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should i be maxing q or e first now? the Q mana cost reduction seems like it would be easier to spam in lane than before, but i love playing a waveclear ad style and a 65% slow on your level 5 seems pretty strong.
she seems pretty strong though, i just bought her and played her for the first time ever outside of an aram and it only took a few levels before the opposing ad couldn't even leave the safety of their tower.
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On May 01 2014 12:36 chalice wrote:
should i be maxing q or e first now? the Q mana cost reduction seems like it would be easier to spam in lane than before, but i love playing a waveclear ad style and a 65% slow on your level 5 seems pretty strong.
she seems pretty strong though, i just bought her and played her for the first time ever outside of an aram and it only took a few levels before the opposing ad couldn't even leave the safety of their tower.
I always max W first; the attack speed is too sick to neglect. I've been favoring R>W>E>Q, simply because mid-game your only "escape" is your E and it helps to have a hefty slow. Waveclearing with your E can get you OOM pretty fast, though, so I try not to do it during laning phase.
I'm not the best of players, though. If you can land your Qs consistently, I can understand putting a higher priority on maxing it. Personally, I just use it for level 1-3 bullying, a bit of poking and as an autoattack reset for more burst. The rebound angle is also more restrictive than before, which throws me off a bit.
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On May 01 2014 16:08 scFoX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 12:36 chalice wrote:
should i be maxing q or e first now? the Q mana cost reduction seems like it would be easier to spam in lane than before, but i love playing a waveclear ad style and a 65% slow on your level 5 seems pretty strong.
she seems pretty strong though, i just bought her and played her for the first time ever outside of an aram and it only took a few levels before the opposing ad couldn't even leave the safety of their tower. I always max W first; the attack speed is too sick to neglect. I've been favoring R>W>E>Q, simply because mid-game your only "escape" is your E and it helps to have a hefty slow. Waveclearing with your E can get you OOM pretty fast, though, so I try not to do it during laning phase. I'm not the best of players, though. If you can land your Qs consistently, I can understand putting a higher priority on maxing it. Personally, I just use it for level 1-3 bullying, a bit of poking and as an autoattack reset for more burst. The rebound angle is also more restrictive than before, which throws me off a bit.
Why would you max W over anything...yeah its a fine skill but each point in it gives you 10%AS...thats it. No CD reduction, no impure shots damage, nothing. There is no way you should be maxing that first.
1 point in:
Q: 1 second cd from 7 to 3, 15 primary damage and 30 secondary
W: 10% AS
E: 55 magic damage over 3s and 10% slow, 1 second cd from 14-10
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with the way W and to a lesser extent Q get most of their damage from your ad scaling, not their base damage from leveling, the added utility of the increased slow E first seems really nice as your first maxed skill.
one thing you can do to hit more Q bounces is use it after an auto attack, the bounce prioritizes champions with a stack of impure shots on them.
wondering if i'm crazy for trying her out in the jungle, obviously she is vulnerable to invades like any non-standard jungler but she smashes camps to stack a FF quickly and red buff + E ganks don't seem that terrible. her passive is fairly useful for moving around the map too.
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if only her passive weren't stopped by minions/jungle creeps
we can dream
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On May 01 2014 17:01 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 16:08 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 12:36 chalice wrote:
should i be maxing q or e first now? the Q mana cost reduction seems like it would be easier to spam in lane than before, but i love playing a waveclear ad style and a 65% slow on your level 5 seems pretty strong.
she seems pretty strong though, i just bought her and played her for the first time ever outside of an aram and it only took a few levels before the opposing ad couldn't even leave the safety of their tower. I always max W first; the attack speed is too sick to neglect. I've been favoring R>W>E>Q, simply because mid-game your only "escape" is your E and it helps to have a hefty slow. Waveclearing with your E can get you OOM pretty fast, though, so I try not to do it during laning phase. I'm not the best of players, though. If you can land your Qs consistently, I can understand putting a higher priority on maxing it. Personally, I just use it for level 1-3 bullying, a bit of poking and as an autoattack reset for more burst. The rebound angle is also more restrictive than before, which throws me off a bit. Why would you max W over anything...yeah its a fine skill but each point in it gives you 10%AS...thats it. No CD reduction, no impure shots damage, nothing. There is no way you should be maxing that first. 1 point in: Q: 1 second cd from 7 to 3, 15 primary damage and 30 secondary W: 10% AS E: 55 magic damage over 3s and 10% slow, 1 second cd from 14-10
Gneh, for some reason, I thought W still upped the damage on your autoattacks with each rank. Serves me right for not reading the rework notes carefully. -_-
I might start maxing it second then...
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On May 02 2014 00:48 scFoX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2014 17:01 sob3k wrote:On May 01 2014 16:08 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 12:36 chalice wrote:
should i be maxing q or e first now? the Q mana cost reduction seems like it would be easier to spam in lane than before, but i love playing a waveclear ad style and a 65% slow on your level 5 seems pretty strong.
she seems pretty strong though, i just bought her and played her for the first time ever outside of an aram and it only took a few levels before the opposing ad couldn't even leave the safety of their tower. I always max W first; the attack speed is too sick to neglect. I've been favoring R>W>E>Q, simply because mid-game your only "escape" is your E and it helps to have a hefty slow. Waveclearing with your E can get you OOM pretty fast, though, so I try not to do it during laning phase. I'm not the best of players, though. If you can land your Qs consistently, I can understand putting a higher priority on maxing it. Personally, I just use it for level 1-3 bullying, a bit of poking and as an autoattack reset for more burst. The rebound angle is also more restrictive than before, which throws me off a bit. Why would you max W over anything...yeah its a fine skill but each point in it gives you 10%AS...thats it. No CD reduction, no impure shots damage, nothing. There is no way you should be maxing that first. 1 point in: Q: 1 second cd from 7 to 3, 15 primary damage and 30 secondary W: 10% AS E: 55 magic damage over 3s and 10% slow, 1 second cd from 14-10 Gneh, for some reason, I thought W still upped the damage on your autoattacks with each rank. Serves me right for not reading the rework notes carefully. -_- I might start maxing it LAST then...
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On May 02 2014 00:52 chalice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2014 00:48 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 17:01 sob3k wrote:On May 01 2014 16:08 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 12:36 chalice wrote:
should i be maxing q or e first now? the Q mana cost reduction seems like it would be easier to spam in lane than before, but i love playing a waveclear ad style and a 65% slow on your level 5 seems pretty strong.
she seems pretty strong though, i just bought her and played her for the first time ever outside of an aram and it only took a few levels before the opposing ad couldn't even leave the safety of their tower. I always max W first; the attack speed is too sick to neglect. I've been favoring R>W>E>Q, simply because mid-game your only "escape" is your E and it helps to have a hefty slow. Waveclearing with your E can get you OOM pretty fast, though, so I try not to do it during laning phase. I'm not the best of players, though. If you can land your Qs consistently, I can understand putting a higher priority on maxing it. Personally, I just use it for level 1-3 bullying, a bit of poking and as an autoattack reset for more burst. The rebound angle is also more restrictive than before, which throws me off a bit. Why would you max W over anything...yeah its a fine skill but each point in it gives you 10%AS...thats it. No CD reduction, no impure shots damage, nothing. There is no way you should be maxing that first. 1 point in: Q: 1 second cd from 7 to 3, 15 primary damage and 30 secondary W: 10% AS E: 55 magic damage over 3s and 10% slow, 1 second cd from 14-10 Gneh, for some reason, I thought W still upped the damage on your autoattacks with each rank. Serves me right for not reading the rework notes carefully. -_- I might start maxing it LAST then...
I guess -- but she'll feel so sluggish. Maxing an attack steroid last. What has this world come to.
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On May 02 2014 01:20 scFoX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2014 00:52 chalice wrote:On May 02 2014 00:48 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 17:01 sob3k wrote:On May 01 2014 16:08 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 12:36 chalice wrote:
should i be maxing q or e first now? the Q mana cost reduction seems like it would be easier to spam in lane than before, but i love playing a waveclear ad style and a 65% slow on your level 5 seems pretty strong.
she seems pretty strong though, i just bought her and played her for the first time ever outside of an aram and it only took a few levels before the opposing ad couldn't even leave the safety of their tower. I always max W first; the attack speed is too sick to neglect. I've been favoring R>W>E>Q, simply because mid-game your only "escape" is your E and it helps to have a hefty slow. Waveclearing with your E can get you OOM pretty fast, though, so I try not to do it during laning phase. I'm not the best of players, though. If you can land your Qs consistently, I can understand putting a higher priority on maxing it. Personally, I just use it for level 1-3 bullying, a bit of poking and as an autoattack reset for more burst. The rebound angle is also more restrictive than before, which throws me off a bit. Why would you max W over anything...yeah its a fine skill but each point in it gives you 10%AS...thats it. No CD reduction, no impure shots damage, nothing. There is no way you should be maxing that first. 1 point in: Q: 1 second cd from 7 to 3, 15 primary damage and 30 secondary W: 10% AS E: 55 magic damage over 3s and 10% slow, 1 second cd from 14-10 Gneh, for some reason, I thought W still upped the damage on your autoattacks with each rank. Serves me right for not reading the rework notes carefully. -_- I might start maxing it LAST then... I guess -- but she'll feel so sluggish. Maxing an attack steroid last. What has this world come to.
well, MF, at least until the late game when damage item scaling really becomes insane, is honestly all about hitting that ult on as many people as possible. Not having as strong auto-attacking isn't that big a deal.
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On May 02 2014 01:20 scFoX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2014 00:52 chalice wrote:On May 02 2014 00:48 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 17:01 sob3k wrote:On May 01 2014 16:08 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 12:36 chalice wrote:
should i be maxing q or e first now? the Q mana cost reduction seems like it would be easier to spam in lane than before, but i love playing a waveclear ad style and a 65% slow on your level 5 seems pretty strong.
she seems pretty strong though, i just bought her and played her for the first time ever outside of an aram and it only took a few levels before the opposing ad couldn't even leave the safety of their tower. I always max W first; the attack speed is too sick to neglect. I've been favoring R>W>E>Q, simply because mid-game your only "escape" is your E and it helps to have a hefty slow. Waveclearing with your E can get you OOM pretty fast, though, so I try not to do it during laning phase. I'm not the best of players, though. If you can land your Qs consistently, I can understand putting a higher priority on maxing it. Personally, I just use it for level 1-3 bullying, a bit of poking and as an autoattack reset for more burst. The rebound angle is also more restrictive than before, which throws me off a bit. Why would you max W over anything...yeah its a fine skill but each point in it gives you 10%AS...thats it. No CD reduction, no impure shots damage, nothing. There is no way you should be maxing that first. 1 point in: Q: 1 second cd from 7 to 3, 15 primary damage and 30 secondary W: 10% AS E: 55 magic damage over 3s and 10% slow, 1 second cd from 14-10 Gneh, for some reason, I thought W still upped the damage on your autoattacks with each rank. Serves me right for not reading the rework notes carefully. -_- I might start maxing it LAST then... I guess -- but she'll feel so sluggish. Maxing an attack steroid last. What has this world come to.
if you really hate her auto attack go with some AS quints.
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On May 02 2014 04:59 chalice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2014 01:20 scFoX wrote:On May 02 2014 00:52 chalice wrote:On May 02 2014 00:48 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 17:01 sob3k wrote:On May 01 2014 16:08 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 12:36 chalice wrote:
should i be maxing q or e first now? the Q mana cost reduction seems like it would be easier to spam in lane than before, but i love playing a waveclear ad style and a 65% slow on your level 5 seems pretty strong.
she seems pretty strong though, i just bought her and played her for the first time ever outside of an aram and it only took a few levels before the opposing ad couldn't even leave the safety of their tower. I always max W first; the attack speed is too sick to neglect. I've been favoring R>W>E>Q, simply because mid-game your only "escape" is your E and it helps to have a hefty slow. Waveclearing with your E can get you OOM pretty fast, though, so I try not to do it during laning phase. I'm not the best of players, though. If you can land your Qs consistently, I can understand putting a higher priority on maxing it. Personally, I just use it for level 1-3 bullying, a bit of poking and as an autoattack reset for more burst. The rebound angle is also more restrictive than before, which throws me off a bit. Why would you max W over anything...yeah its a fine skill but each point in it gives you 10%AS...thats it. No CD reduction, no impure shots damage, nothing. There is no way you should be maxing that first. 1 point in: Q: 1 second cd from 7 to 3, 15 primary damage and 30 secondary W: 10% AS E: 55 magic damage over 3s and 10% slow, 1 second cd from 14-10 Gneh, for some reason, I thought W still upped the damage on your autoattacks with each rank. Serves me right for not reading the rework notes carefully. -_- I might start maxing it LAST then... I guess -- but she'll feel so sluggish. Maxing an attack steroid last. What has this world come to. if you really hate her auto attack go with some AS quints.
mf has the smoothest auto animation in the game imo
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You max Q first, without question. It shouldn't even be a debate. It's her primary source of damage outside of Autos, and it's an Auto attack reset. In reality, your primary source of damage is Q-Auto (Auto-Q-Auto technically). You should really almost never be landing just a Q on a target, it should be Q-Auto 90% of the time. Maxing Q lowers the CD and raises the damage on it, so it's obvious and non-debatable that you would max it first. Anything else simply shows a lack of experience on the champion.
As to what you should be maxing SECOND, there's a real discussion to be had. Is a slow and DOT for 80 mana worth more than extra attack speed and grievous wounds for 50? What will net you more landed auto attacks, the slow? Or more AS? Is the slow enough to net you an extra Q-Auto?
I can tell you from my experience that maxing W second is what feels strongest on MF. The increased attack speed allows you to build BT->Greaves->Pickaxe (Sometimes I even finish LW) before even starting your Zeal. This is important, because it really emphasizes MF's burst potential and beefs up her ult during the early and mid-game which is important, because you HAVE to snowball to be successful on MF (She has no escape, your goal is to be able to blick that incoming assassin or chip away at diving tanks during the mid game, and an early BT-Greaves-LW build allows for it). W gives you the AS you need to get away with building more AD in place of Zeal.
I've experimented with E second, and what I've found is that it works fairly well in lane (although I couldn't say that it's netted me any kills I wouldn't have gotten with W second), but you're crying for more AS once the mid-game arrives. W is just that much more useful in teamfights, and knocking out turrets, and I can't justify putting more than one point in E before Q and W are both maxed out.
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On May 02 2014 03:43 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2014 01:20 scFoX wrote:On May 02 2014 00:52 chalice wrote:On May 02 2014 00:48 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 17:01 sob3k wrote:On May 01 2014 16:08 scFoX wrote:On May 01 2014 12:36 chalice wrote:
should i be maxing q or e first now? the Q mana cost reduction seems like it would be easier to spam in lane than before, but i love playing a waveclear ad style and a 65% slow on your level 5 seems pretty strong.
she seems pretty strong though, i just bought her and played her for the first time ever outside of an aram and it only took a few levels before the opposing ad couldn't even leave the safety of their tower. I always max W first; the attack speed is too sick to neglect. I've been favoring R>W>E>Q, simply because mid-game your only "escape" is your E and it helps to have a hefty slow. Waveclearing with your E can get you OOM pretty fast, though, so I try not to do it during laning phase. I'm not the best of players, though. If you can land your Qs consistently, I can understand putting a higher priority on maxing it. Personally, I just use it for level 1-3 bullying, a bit of poking and as an autoattack reset for more burst. The rebound angle is also more restrictive than before, which throws me off a bit. Why would you max W over anything...yeah its a fine skill but each point in it gives you 10%AS...thats it. No CD reduction, no impure shots damage, nothing. There is no way you should be maxing that first. 1 point in: Q: 1 second cd from 7 to 3, 15 primary damage and 30 secondary W: 10% AS E: 55 magic damage over 3s and 10% slow, 1 second cd from 14-10 Gneh, for some reason, I thought W still upped the damage on your autoattacks with each rank. Serves me right for not reading the rework notes carefully. -_- I might start maxing it LAST then... I guess -- but she'll feel so sluggish. Maxing an attack steroid last. What has this world come to. well, MF, at least until the late game when damage item scaling really becomes insane, is honestly all about hitting that ult on as many people as possible. Not having as strong auto-attacking isn't that big a deal.
It's also important to note that Q works as a steroid in its own right because it's an auto attack reset. Every time your Q is off CD it's like having 2.5 Autos for one.
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Yeah auto q auto is bread and butter, maxing it first then W when you're about to get enough damage for it to matter is standard imo. E is basically just to slow down people while you all-in them, you're not so much worried about the damage because if you're getting a full E off on someone you're probably doing ok regardless of what you're maxing.
Also E drains your mana really fast, that shit costs 80 mana. Using it for damage can put you into spots where you have no escape tools because it's on cd or you're out of mana.
Oh and even more importantly your build on MF is going to be pure damage, Thirster into LW kinds of builds, because your main goal in a fight is to get a good ult off and then pick stragglers. Having that extra aspd when you build pure dmg is pretty crucial and it scales to 60% at rank 5.
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On May 06 2014 07:02 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Yeah auto q auto is bread and butter, maxing it first then W when you're about to get enough damage for it to matter is standard imo. E is basically just to slow down people while you all-in them, you're not so much worried about the damage because if you're getting a full E off on someone you're probably doing ok regardless of what you're maxing.
Also E drains your mana really fast, that shit costs 80 mana. Using it for damage can put you into spots where you have no escape tools because it's on cd or you're out of mana.
Oh and even more importantly your build on MF is going to be pure damage, Thirster into LW kinds of builds, because your main goal in a fight is to get a good ult off and then pick stragglers. Having that extra aspd when you build pure dmg is pretty crucial and it scales to 60% at rank 5.
Oh shit, a Diamond player agrees with me.
Irrefutable proof that it's my feeding noob teammates holding me back.
GG no re.
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On May 06 2014 08:00 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 07:02 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Yeah auto q auto is bread and butter, maxing it first then W when you're about to get enough damage for it to matter is standard imo. E is basically just to slow down people while you all-in them, you're not so much worried about the damage because if you're getting a full E off on someone you're probably doing ok regardless of what you're maxing.
Also E drains your mana really fast, that shit costs 80 mana. Using it for damage can put you into spots where you have no escape tools because it's on cd or you're out of mana.
Oh and even more importantly your build on MF is going to be pure damage, Thirster into LW kinds of builds, because your main goal in a fight is to get a good ult off and then pick stragglers. Having that extra aspd when you build pure dmg is pretty crucial and it scales to 60% at rank 5. Oh shit, a Diamond player agrees with me. Irrefutable proof that it's my feeding noob teammates holding me back. GG no re.
i think 5hit is stuck in like plat 5 or somethin l0l.
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do you have enough mana to really take advantage of the decreased cd on an early maxed Q?
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EPT
