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On August 10 2014 02:44 Alaric wrote:
After a 40 minutes games playing MF with the max E build (AD/AS runes, 2 dblades -> IE+boots -> LW -> zerks -> PD -> banshee -> PD, QEWEER, R>E>Q>W, with the LW second and no zerkers I prob should have maxed W second though) I ended up dealing ~14k magic damage to champions out of ~50k total, so 28%.
Seemed pretty high, although the game was pretty chaotic (lots of 1v1s, only one of them built MR, also bunch of bronzes in my team and mostly mid-high silver in theirs, it was through teambuilder) and I ended up not auto-ing that much in fights because my clicking speed/accuracy is atrocious, so E was a lot of my damage even in midgame skirmishes and I never really got money ults either (apart from 2 on 3-4 people).
Does MF do a lot of magic damage usually? It has to be lower than 28% of her total champion damage still?
She can yes. All of the scaling damage on her ult is magic. And all of the increasing damage on her ult is magic as well (I.E. the first wave does base damage plus one stack, the second wave does base damage plus two stacks).
Triforce will actually decrease the portion of magic damage you do since it gives less raw AD and gives more spellblade(which is physical) whereas the majority of MF's magic damage is on impure shots AD scaling and E base damage. Plus the AP scaling on her ult is physical damage rather than magic damage.
The more you're able to consistently auto attack the more of your damage will be magic, up to about 30% of your standard auto attack damage. Depending on your total AD and level your ultimate will be between 30-50% magic damage scaling towards the high end on a full charge and potentially more if you tagged people with impure before the ult.
20-30% seems right to my eye but i don't have a bunch of games that i can look through my history to do so.
On July 18 2014 07:44 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I don't think you can fit it into the build, it's pretty unforgiving on slots. IE/BT are too strong, you need a PD late game, LW is non-negotiable, boots are mandatory, and MF has no escapes so you generally want GA. Late game I sell my boots for either triforce or zephyr.
Honestly, mana potions do the same thing and I ALWAYS come back to lane with 5 of them if I can afford it.
Why GA and not QSS->Scimitar?
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Mmmm I tend to like GA better because it's easier for me and it provides my team with a window to save me rather than just relying on my reflexes. Perhaps if I was better I would like Scimitar, but I'm not god-tier on my reaction times and the visual of having a GA makes your opponents think a lot harder about engaging than having a scimitar does.
Also you tend to have enough raw AD by the time you get GA that an extra 80 wouldn't make you kill in less shots, and the extra resists + BT health is pretty substantial against AD. Depends, though. I might go QSS against like Lissandra but GA vs like Talon.
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So apparently I'm pretty high ranked for MF on lolskill:
+ Show Spoiler +
Might be able to go Master tier with her, but I just got dumped on by Phaxen with Vayne/Sona vs MF/Morg. The sustain Sona provides in that lane is ridiculous and I might have to max Q in Sona matchups to be able to duel, because whittling down with E doesn't work well against her.
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Wellllllll I just broke the top 100 with MF and I'm 27th in NA (#12 NA/#49 world as of today tho). Time to give some various thoughts on how to play her:
ALWAYS BAN YASUO. This is one of the most important things to do if you're going to pick MF. Not only does Windwall block all of your shit, he can chase you down even with your passive on and you just have to duel him at that point.
E max is standard, but Q max is good in some lanes. If you're against Sona in particular you should Q max because you need to do immediate burst against her to win a fight. If she shields well, you usually can't trade unless your support is really good.
Hard champions to play against in lane: Kogmaw, Sona, Tristana, Veigar support (was doing ranked 5s with my team and we ran into a team in challenger promos who ran Lucian/Veigar bot. Couldn't do anything at all against them, even with a Morgana support.). Consider picking an easier matchup against these if your opponents are competent. You can always win with a good jungler/support helping you out but these four in particular are bitches.
Most of your damage comes from landing a good E then getting an auto-q-auto off. Activate W only when you're going all-in.
Do NOT blow ult on waves if you are E maxing, almost ever. The cooldown is pretty high early and you can accomplish nearly the same thing with E + Q/W as far as clearing creeps goes. Don't ult dragons or barons unless you're trying to steal them. Your ult is probably the strongest tool in your kit and having it up is really important. E + R at level 6 does like 700 damage if they take the full channel of both.
The very first thing you do every single game from blue side is buy dorans pot trinket and run straight to the tribush. Ward it and move towards the small bush unless they have a hook, in which case go around red to the opening of wraith. This covers your red completely from invades unless they do some dumb flash dragon wall bs which is fine because you should be able to flash/heal out and they just wasted a lot more than you.
If you're on purple side, buy dorans pot trinket and rush to the back of blue side's red buff. Drop a ward in there and retreat to blue entrance. If they have a hook you need to be careful but because of strut you should easily be safe if you go immediately.
Start Q, try to push if you can. I miss a ton of cs on the first one or two waves and I want to improve on that. If I were a mechanical god I would get them all. Once you get W you can start aggressively trading unless they have a heal or Janna. When playing against Thresh you need to be mindful of hooks. If strut is down, don't be in hook range. You probably will end up getting hooked at some point and you may need to consider just going all-in if it does happen. Sometimes you win. If it doesn't look like you can get out because of Flay or The Box then just focusing the lower of the two targets while standing in place so you don't take Box damage. E max owns Thresh pretty hard, he'll often take the full duration of it trying to position against you, and it helps a bit by slowing.
Bush control is important as MF, but you don't want to be standing in them and it's basically on your support/your trinket ward. Having a full range of direction to dodge is important. Creep block is real and be aware of the possibility as it is extremely unforgiving to lose strut + take harass + get creep blocked on the way out.
Double Up is good harass, but I basically only use the second bounce when I know they HAVE to run because of Make It Rain threat. Otherwise I auto-q-auto their face instead. The damage difference isn't that huge.
As far as items go, I basically always go double dorans -> boots + up to 10 pots -> BF sword (can get earlier if you farm well or pick up a kill) -> Pickaxe -> IE -> Zerks/Zeal -> PD -> BT/LW depending on what they have. Lately tanks have pretty much fallen out of favor in my games so I rarely get LW before BT.
The higher up in skill level you get, the harder time you will have in lane. Good Lucians seem to always punish me early and I expect to be down quite a bit of CS in certain matchups. This is fine because your damage output is so much higher than theirs is in teamfights, as long as the teamfight isn't too spread out and disjointed. Pick your fights and when you can't get them, do something constructive like farm or heal/shop.
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i do really enjoy how you can safely get a ward down in your opponent's jungle lvl 1 thanks to your passive just by not being afk when the game starts.
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I bought mf and the arcade skin on my alt acc, I really dig that skin and I think I1d like to learn playing with her. I suck hard time with adcs, but she seems somewhat forgiving.
Anyway, is E maxing really a thing? The base damage and the slow is great indeed, but no one will stand through it, and I1d run out of mana pretty fast. Or do you just push the wave 0-24?
Also, how is brutalizer and youmuu/black cleaver on her?
Is a no crit, "ad caster" build viable? Basically it relies in good ults and to not waste any seconds when activating W.
Clarity or Heal?
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I also run 22/5/3 on MF for the mana regen. I'm slightly less tanky in all-ins but having that extra mana is better than a little more HP, in my opinion, because I use bluepill liberally after shoving and buy a ton of hp/mana pots to keep myself high.
Oh and to answer your question, yeah, I E-max in every lane that I'm ahead and only Q-max from behind. I have been thinking about switching to Q max in lane and E max after level 6 for teamfight utility. 65% slow too strong to pass up and it's like 300+ dmg aoe.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5AitQWY.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QY4oBmN.png)
I don't like brutalizer unless I'm really, really behind--the reason being that I can buy a BF sword for like 200 more, and saving for BF sword is HUGE on MF. I routinely stay on double dorans + boots/pots until I can get BF Sword instead of buying pickaxe or vamp in lane. Yeah, I play her more like an AD caster until I get phantom dancer, at which point I become a hybrid caster/adc. I take heal, always, because saving your support is important too!
Note: I have been thinking about changing from armor penetration to flat AD. It would make last hitting a LOT easier and I tend to be bad at that early on...
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On August 12 2014 20:18 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Might be able to go Master tier with her, but I just got dumped on by Phaxen with Vayne/Sona vs MF/Morg. The sustain Sona provides in that lane is ridiculous and I might have to max Q in Sona matchups to be able to duel, because whittling down with E doesn't work well against her.
Sona just beats Morg and there is little you can do about it except hope their sona is bad
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I've been starting to play around with Q max in ranked and it's allowing me to bully a lot harder. The tradeoff is that I generally won't be able to do as much damage in teamfights until E is maxed. However I have noticed that my mana has been easier to manage and I find myself being able to hit a lot more Q bounces off of casters. Verdict is still out but we dominated a Lucian/Lulu lane as MF/Blitz and zoned a Trist that started W really hard. I'm starting to like it a lot more though and I think the higher in skill I get the more important it is to be able to trade at any time and not just on my terms. I'll keep you updated on it.
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I've been trying E first a lot more often since seeing it recommended so often by ZERG_RUSSIAN but I'm still of the opinion that Q max should be standard. However, E second has replaced W second.
Against any ADC with an escape I go normal Q max.
Against immobile ADC's my first 6 levels are typically Q - W- E - Q - E - R followed by Q-max.
RUSSIAN: Have you tried giving up the Attack speed Quints in favour of more damage/arpen?
I'm running 8 AD Reds (1 Crit), 1 AD Quint, and 2 ArPen Quints (5%). One of the things that makes it so comfortable is that you can 2-hit Caster Minions with 2 Dorans and a BF sword. I personally find that Q and W do more than enough to compensate for the AS missing from my runes.
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On August 17 2014 15:44 Nemireck wrote:
I'm running 8 AD Reds (1 Crit), 1 AD Quint, and 2 ArPen Quints (5%). One of the things that makes it so comfortable is that you can 2-hit Caster Minions with 2 Dorans and a BF sword. I personally find that Q and W do more than enough to compensate for the AS missing from my runes.
You can use arpen marks and quints if you like but the other way around gives less stats.
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On August 17 2014 15:44 Nemireck wrote:
I've been trying E first a lot more often since seeing it recommended so often by ZERG_RUSSIAN but I'm still of the opinion that Q max should be standard. However, E second has replaced W second.
Against any ADC with an escape I go normal Q max.
Against immobile ADC's my first 6 levels are typically Q - W- E - Q - E - R followed by Q-max.
RUSSIAN: Have you tried giving up the Attack speed Quints in favour of more damage/arpen?
I'm running 8 AD Reds (1 Crit), 1 AD Quint, and 2 ArPen Quints (5%). One of the things that makes it so comfortable is that you can 2-hit Caster Minions with 2 Dorans and a BF sword. I personally find that Q and W do more than enough to compensate for the AS missing from my runes.
I have, but honestly at the level I'm playing at if I don't have the attackspeed and they do, I lose trades. I've been experimenting with my pages and I think my new standard is actually 2 aspd quints, 1 ad quint, 9 ad reds, 9 armor yellows, 4 aspd blues and 5 flat mr blues.
Before this I couldn't out-trade Lucian on straight auto-attacks and now I can. I wasn't thinking about W's stacking effect. Attack speed is better right now, I'm thinking, but I'm still testing it. I'll keep you informed.
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I have a hard time csing under turret without 2 AD quints. I think it's because of the dblade nerf because I never had this problem back when 2 ls + 1 AD was common.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oYXqKmc.png)
