EPTAs for Q vs. E max. If you're dueling against someone who can't dash out of the E, then he will not only take all of the damage from it, but the 65% slow will allow you to hammer him with at least 2 extra autos. If it's a Draven, he will drop his axe and get destroyed. If you can't secure a kill despite the slow, and your ult then I doubt maxing Q would be anymore beneficial since you will be sacrificing a lot of chasing power and damage for a bit more CD.
[Champion] Miss Fortune - Page 12
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AsianEcksDragon
United States1036 Posts
As for Q vs. E max. If you're dueling against someone who can't dash out of the E, then he will not only take all of the damage from it, but the 65% slow will allow you to hammer him with at least 2 extra autos. If it's a Draven, he will drop his axe and get destroyed. If you can't secure a kill despite the slow, and your ult then I doubt maxing Q would be anymore beneficial since you will be sacrificing a lot of chasing power and damage for a bit more CD. | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
Like look, I've been playing this champion for a long time and LOTS of games. I generally know when I've missed out on a kill I "should" have had when I mess around with my skill order. I know that the guy getting away with 50 health because I had to wait 2 more seconds for my Q is a kill I would have had if I hadn't maxed E and maxed Q instead. That all said, I used to max W second but more and more I'm of the opinion it should be E now. Those E's in mid-game teamfights are pretty boss, but Q is still the bread and butter damage dealer. I want it on as low a CD as possible, as early in the game as possible... pretty much always. As to IE vs BT, I get BT early in the game because it costs less. 300 gold that early in the game is a big difference, and as MF I'm not as reliant on auto attacks as, say Cait or Jinx or Twitch. The vast majority of the damage I'm dealing is coming from Q, which doesn't crit. So yes, I'd much rather be 300 gold faster in the early game. I'd rather have 80 AD, lifesteal, a small shield, and Boots over 80AD, 25% crit, and a crit damage mod. I'd rather be faster and have more sustain. But that may just be personal preference. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
And whoa that's crazy you must farm like a god if you have a BF Sword and dorans at 6 that consistently. It's not like I last hit well or anything, but I only miss like 1 a wave ish... usually I go double dorans into BF nowadays too, but still, having vamp + BF + Dorans at 6 seems farfetched to me. | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On June 27 2014 05:39 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I still prefer E max for most lanes that aren't Lucian. I use it to pick off supports a LOT in conjunction with my own because it makes stuff insanely easy to land for your partner in lane. If they land something first then it just 100% punishes, too. And whoa that's crazy you must farm like a god if you have a BF Sword and dorans at 6 that consistently. It's not like I last hit well or anything, but I only miss like 1 a wave ish... usually I go double dorans into BF nowadays too, but still, having vamp + BF + Dorans at 6 seems farfetched to me. I usually clear wave and buy BF sword about halfway through level 5. Something like around 7:30 I expect to have a BF sword. At 7 minutes I expect to have 50-60 CS (75-80 at 10 minutes), and 120 by 15 minutes at my personal rate of farming. Obviously shit happens in lane, so I consider 100 CS at 15 the absolute bare minimum, and usually I'll have a kill/assist (or death, lol) in such a case. I think you only need around 40 CS at 7:00 to consistently get a BF sword at 7:30 (assuming you hit your cannons). Edit: Ya, 114 gold per minute, times 6 minutes (1:30-7:30) is 684. You need 866 gold from CS which I always estimate at 20/minion average = 43, we'll say 45 minions. That's pretty easy to hit consistently at 7 minutes.... Edit 2: For even more detail, consider that Minions meet at bot lane at ~2:00. 5 minutes worth of minion waves is 10 waves of minions, with a cannon every 3rd wave, that's 63 possible CS at about 7 minutes. Shouldn't be an issue to get that BF before lvl6 unless you're forced out of lane and need to buy second Doran's. Which in higher ELO wouldn't really surprise me. I was wrong about scepter, that's usually on second back along with boots around level 7-8. Although sometimes I have a longsword in addition to the Doran's and BF. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On June 27 2014 10:54 krndandaman wrote: wait, so is TF normal on MF now? i've been seeing a lot of success with mf this patch going ie shiv lw as my core but tf seems interesting It's a personal preference, I certainly don't think it HURTS in place of Shiv or PD. I just really like that HUGE Q shot that you can land up to every 3 seconds. | ||
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AsianEcksDragon
United States1036 Posts
Graves probably got hit harder than MF though. MF at least has high base damage and AP scaling. I still wouldn't play either in the current state of the game because if I'm going to build IE then I'd rather play Cait or Kog. Although if I must play her then I will choose either starting IE or TF/Brutalizer. | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On June 27 2014 15:06 AsianEcksDragon wrote: BT is faster than IE, true. However, BT doesn't really give that much more than BF + Pickaxe. I understand that MF relies heavily on AD more so than crit. In fact, I was a heavy proponent of a double BT end game build prior to this patch, foregoing crit and AS entirely and I regrettably admit that IE is better than BT even on MF whose skillset make crit kind of a waste due in large to her channeling ult. Graves probably got hit harder than MF though. MF at least has high base damage and AP scaling. I still wouldn't play either in the current state of the game because if I'm going to build IE then I'd rather play Cait or Kog. Although if I must play her then I will choose either starting IE or TF/Brutalizer. Funny you mention that, I tried that double BT endgame prior to this patch (I'm assuming your build was BT - Greaves- LW - BT - IE? Shiv? PD? - GA Since you say you passed up AS entirely) in LOTS of games (Both BT as 6th item and in place of PD and IE) and found that the crit was sorely missed in the end-game. No matter what you START with, you eventually are going to need those crit multipliers in the end-game to shred opponents and really amplify her burst. 30 extra AD to pass up a 25% crit chance with a damage modifier LATE game is pretty silly just to make her skills do <30 extra damage. It's not like I'm passing up IE entirely, I just don't agree that it's the best first item on MF. You say it's just a BF+Pickaxe but the sustain it provides is so so important at that stage of the game. I prefer having more sustain and faster movespeed in the early-mid game rather than no sustain but a small chance to deal a burst of damage. I want to be able to stay out on the map generating gold for as long (and thus as quickly) as possible, and I feel like BT provides that where IE doesn't. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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GreggSauce
United States566 Posts
On June 27 2014 22:34 chalice wrote: can double BF sword into IE-BT be a thing on mf now? it could work but it'd be scimitar not BT, the issue is MF always did well with attack speed, people just didn't want to believe it my attack speed MF consistently outduels everyone including more "normal MF" builds. I really don't know why anyone would ever build her otherwise when her constant damage is so high | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Anyway, double dorans -> BF Sword -> Infinity Edge -> LW/BT/PD/BC/TF/GA/Banshee's depending on the game. IE is strong, BT is underrated because that shield makes you quite tanky, PD/TF/Shiv are all decent options if you need to maneuver more (I prefer PD and rarely get TF), LW after IE if they have a lot of armor incoming, and PD or BT if not. The trick to winning really hard as MF is just buy lots of mana potions. I routinely come back to lane with 5 mana pots. Brutalizer's not worth it anymore. I realized that the 10 extra armor penetration doesn't make up for raw damage in most games. I didn't do the math on it and I'm not going to. Cleaver isn't that good in the first place, Ghostblade is okay, but I'm convinced that BT is just better. 80 AD is a LOT of attack damage, and you're getting LW anyway. | ||
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scFoX
France454 Posts
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On July 17 2014 09:52 scFoX wrote: Is essence reaver worth it for the mana and CDR? you mention you spend a lot of money buying mana pots, and the stats are much better now. I was enjoying how it felt when it was first released with 50 AD. I'm looking forward to getting out there with the 80 AD version. MF is a mana-hungry biatch and the CDR and Mana regen on Reaver are great tools. Many times in those games I was spamming my skills on farm and still had nearly full mana for any teamfights that broke out, it's an underrated tool on MF. | ||
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AsianEcksDragon
United States1036 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Honestly, mana potions do the same thing and I ALWAYS come back to lane with 5 of them if I can afford it. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Seemed pretty high, although the game was pretty chaotic (lots of 1v1s, only one of them built MR, also bunch of bronzes in my team and mostly mid-high silver in theirs, it was through teambuilder) and I ended up not auto-ing that much in fights because my clicking speed/accuracy is atrocious, so E was a lot of my damage even in midgame skirmishes and I never really got money ults either (apart from 2 on 3-4 people). Does MF do a lot of magic damage usually? It has to be lower than 28% of her total champion damage still? | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
18.3 28.4 22.1 31.9 24.1 18.3 18.2 27.5 21.8 29.3 That's an average of 23.9% Magic Damage. But I build Triforce instead of PD, so my numbers are going to be a little bit inflated from the AP off Tri. Remember that W and Ult both apply some Magic Damage as well. | ||
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