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On March 18 2013 14:20 dae wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So, been going on a rampage with MF in soloq.
She seems to be incredibly strong in lane, incredibly strong in teamfights, can build pure armor shred so can damage tanks, and can still do damn good damage to tanks with just ad/arp items.
I don't get it, why isn't she in every single game. You literally go into lane with a stupidly strong champion, then if you land r in teamfights you usually win.
(currently 11-2 with MF in Diamond 1) Edit: I think the 2 loses were when I just bought her and q max
I've been going flash barrier, skill order r>e>w>q with q or e level 1, w level 4.
Max e first for stupidly strong e>r combos at 6, and great waveclear/farming potential, + its good in trades, forces them to back off while slowed, sets up stuff for your support, and in general is just a 3 second duration 52% huge aoe slow that does good damage.
When I tried q max couldnt sustain the mana, e max way easier on your mana pool, just using q/w when your engaged hard,
Build is just dorans or longsword 2 start, then just bt/lw/bc/defensive item/bt, get tier 1 boots when you have the gold and don't bother upgrading them for a long time.
21/9/0 masteries, 15 ad/armor/mr runes.
MF just seems broken in soloq atm, massive impact on game, safe laning, and very easy to get kills and capitalize on mistakes in lane to snowball it, and just press r to win mid to late game.
Edit: for what tier 2 boots to get the choice is really inconsequential, mercs or tabis or lucidity or zerks are all decent.
You make a strong case. Any idea why she isn't more popular?
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mf is the 4th most popular champion atm and has the 6th highest winrate. she is like the taric of ad carries. allways picked, allways wins. never banned.
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On March 18 2013 17:04 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Are you really maxing E in lane? When do you use it, only during trades? It seems a lot harder to justify than q (and doesn't it cost more?) but I see the point. I've never done E max before but if you're winning like that I might try it.
Upsides of leveling Q - More base damage on it, lower cooldown.
Downsides of leveling Q - More mana cost, less cooldown means even more mana used.
E is flat 80 mana at all levels.
(q is 70->90 mana)
I use it whenever I want to push the lane,or just punish them for going for a cs, or set something up for my support. That slow makes it WAY easier for pretty much any support to hit stuff, even like Taric where it helps him get into range.
It shines when you want to push the lane fast, b/c E + a supports aoe ability, is almost enough to 1 shot the wave, and E + 1 auto on each ranged creep kills them at almost all levels. Also when you just want to push out and kill 3-4 waves in a row it is amazing, as Q and W don't really help with that.
Also in teamfights it's really nice to peel people.
One thing to note, mf E is one of the few spells I don't smartcast as the exact positioning of it seems to matter alot, and using it at exactly max range is important.
I think E is also alot more damage/utility per mana, while maxing Q is a tad more sustain damage, but it kills your mana using q more then once in trades.
If people are <50% often a perfectly landed e then just ulting them is enough to kill them.
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E first, huh? It sounds like one of those things people will think you're 'doing it wrong' but you make a strong case - especially the idea of comboing the strong slow with your support's CC abilities.
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On March 19 2013 03:51 sylverfyre wrote:
E first, huh? It sounds like one of those things people will think you're 'doing it wrong' but you make a strong case - especially the idea of comboing the strong slow with your support's CC abilities.
Its actually pretty retarded strong. Tried it earlier, if your lane partner has a slight slow past lvl 6, they eat the entire e + her ult unless they blow flash. pretty good
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I have to agree that E-max sounds interesting, I suppose a lot of the power of Q comes from being an auto-reset (also AD ratio) which doesn't scale with ranks anyway, but gets relatively worse with higher mana cost (although the mana cost increase is pretty negligible imo).
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So, an update.
Currently 15-2 with MF in ranked, and at 96 LP in diamond 1.
E max is just so safe and strong in lane, and the MF just ults well in teamfights and does more then their ad carry.
Build still BT/LW/BC/defensive item/BT, with only getting boots 1, usually start dorans.
Mf going to carry me to challenger >.<.
+ Show Spoiler +
Note: Bad scores are because I'm playing people that are probably better then I am.
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I've been trying to play the E max mf and I prefer w-q-e-e-e. E when you don't have other abilities to chain into it isn't that good so level 1 or 2 is pretty meh plus it auto pushes wave.
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On March 20 2013 14:31 dae wrote:So, an update. Currently 15-2 with MF in ranked, and at 96 LP in diamond 1. E max is just so safe and strong in lane, and the MF just ults well in teamfights and does more then their ad carry. Build still BT/LW/BC/defensive item/BT, with only getting boots 1, usually start dorans. Mf going to carry me to challenger >.<. + Show Spoiler +Note: Bad scores are because I'm playing people that are probably better then I am.
Do you rush bruta before BT?
Why don't you rush BC for mass ult armor shredding?
Why LW before BC as well?
Maxing E seems questionable. Less guaranteed damage, magic damage not physical, lower CD on Q. But I don't value wave clearing that much bottom.
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On March 20 2013 16:40 Complete wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 14:31 dae wrote:So, an update. Currently 15-2 with MF in ranked, and at 96 LP in diamond 1. E max is just so safe and strong in lane, and the MF just ults well in teamfights and does more then their ad carry. Build still BT/LW/BC/defensive item/BT, with only getting boots 1, usually start dorans. Mf going to carry me to challenger >.<. + Show Spoiler +Note: Bad scores are because I'm playing people that are probably better then I am. Do you rush bruta before BT? Why don't you rush BC for mass ult armor shredding? Why LW before BC as well? Maxing E seems questionable. Less guaranteed damage, magic damage not physical, lower CD on Q. But I don't value wave clearing that much bottom.
The slow + lane partner CC = they eat the entire E which is still like 260 damage or something I think, + your entire ult because of how high the slow is.
its pretty strong i think tbh.
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k so probably pretty strong with people like taric/leona with hard CC and not a good idea with sona/soraka
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Hm, i'll have to try this, i usually duo with a Lulu, and it sounds like this is the kind of thing, that would really benefit the lane. Using it offensively seems to make a lot of sence, however, besides your movespeed, it's the only defensive tool you got on MF. Is it really worth trading the availabe slow for a bit more damage? Also, with your build, you seem to loose a lot of sustained damage by building no as/crit at all. So, if your ult does not win the fight, you just lost, cause you will be autoattacking for a while. Why not change lw for a PD if you build BC after it anyway?
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On March 20 2013 16:40 Complete wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 14:31 dae wrote:So, an update. Currently 15-2 with MF in ranked, and at 96 LP in diamond 1. E max is just so safe and strong in lane, and the MF just ults well in teamfights and does more then their ad carry. Build still BT/LW/BC/defensive item/BT, with only getting boots 1, usually start dorans. Mf going to carry me to challenger >.<. + Show Spoiler +Note: Bad scores are because I'm playing people that are probably better then I am. Do you rush bruta before BT? Why don't you rush BC for mass ult armor shredding? Why LW before BC as well? Maxing E seems questionable. Less guaranteed damage, magic damage not physical, lower CD on Q. But I don't value wave clearing that much bottom.
I pretty much just straight rush bt, then get either lw or bc depending on how much physical damage my team has, and whether I want the hp from BC. Lw is more straight up damage then BC per cost. I get BT first for lane sustain, and that + low mana usage means I can stay in lane for long periods of time farming, and don't get forced back often.
In addition, just E'ing their ad carry when they are about to have a couple last hits they have to go for forces them to either miss the CS or sit in the E.
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On March 21 2013 00:37 Broetchenholer wrote:
Hm, i'll have to try this, i usually duo with a Lulu, and it sounds like this is the kind of thing, that would really benefit the lane. Using it offensively seems to make a lot of sence, however, besides your movespeed, it's the only defensive tool you got on MF. Is it really worth trading the availabe slow for a bit more damage? Also, with your build, you seem to loose a lot of sustained damage by building no as/crit at all. So, if your ult does not win the fight, you just lost, cause you will be autoattacking for a while. Why not change lw for a PD if you build BC after it anyway?
I get both LW and BC because MF ult has ALOT of base damages on it, especially if you hit 16 relatively fast. I've found that by maxing w 2nd, I still have enough AS when combined with Q AA reset to kill tanks, especially with how much armor pen I have, and this build doesnt have that bad gap between getting crit/as up and getting lw so you can actually damage tanks.
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On March 20 2013 16:22 NovaTheFeared wrote:
I've been trying to play the E max mf and I prefer w-q-e-e-e. E when you don't have other abilities to chain into it isn't that good so level 1 or 2 is pretty meh plus it auto pushes wave.
Pushing wave early is almost never a bad thing, unless you support doesn't have wards to cover for it. Pushing them under tower makes them lose cs, and makes you have an exp lead in lane making it hard for them to fight, plus you stack of creeps is larger.
Honestly I don't know what the best lvl1-3 skill order is, I've been going e q e, but I generally play pretty passive early, and not having q/w at level 1 has hurt me a few times.
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On March 20 2013 22:42 Complete wrote:
k so probably pretty strong with people like taric/leona with hard CC and not a good idea with sona/soraka
It's pretty good with sona, since at 6 e-> sona ult -> mf ult is pretty much a free kill. Soraka I think Q max is better, as you have the mana to spam it all day.
Pretty much the only time I've maxed q was vs a morgana support, and even them throughout the early midgame I missed the waveclear and utility of e, but it was needed as maxing e vs black shield is just stupid.
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On March 21 2013 01:05 dae wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 16:22 NovaTheFeared wrote:
I've been trying to play the E max mf and I prefer w-q-e-e-e. E when you don't have other abilities to chain into it isn't that good so level 1 or 2 is pretty meh plus it auto pushes wave. Pushing wave early is almost never a bad thing, unless you support doesn't have wards to cover for it. Pushing them under tower makes them lose cs, and makes you have an exp lead in lane making it hard for them to fight, plus you stack of creeps is larger. Honestly I don't know what the best lvl1-3 skill order is, I've been going e q e, but I generally play pretty passive early, and not having q/w at level 1 has hurt me a few times.
Generally speaking yeah you want the lane pushing early but only slightly. When you have such a strong level 1-3 champ like MF I don't think it's good to immediately shove them to the safety of their turrets. AoEing the wave too hard early just makes it farmfest. And W and Q are better to bully with super early. Obviously later on in the early game the side pushing has a big advantage but I don't like slamming the wave from L1-2 with a bunch of Es, and if you can't make use of the ability it might be better to take it a little later than from L1.
I think E max is quite creative, I would never have thought to do this.
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E max, wow, works great. Really awesome with Zyra support, tons of CC and damage. Can snare them in plants + E + doubleult. Probably also great with Lux.
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hey dae is your name dae in game with an accent? your name looks familiar and i feel like i played with you before :3
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Stupid question
Impure shots, by stacking 4x does it mean at level 5 it will end up doing 56 extra attack damage after you AA a target 4x? What happens if you switch targets? What happens if you activate it for the attack speed?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fvu6FAZ.png)
