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On March 14 2012 05:00 Mogwai wrote:
maxing W is one of the stupidest things you can do with Wu, sorry mang.
agreed. ur killing ur damage so much by doing this.. there is NO way its worth it.
But I do enjoy jungling as wukong tho like mentioned.
His ganks are weak until 6, but not terrible witha red buff.
Also u can come thru the top lane thru the top bush, w from the first bush to the 2nd one (obv ur top lane has to shove a bit here) and then when u pop from the 2nd bush in behind him or even in front of him its a bit of an "o shit" moment for their top.
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On March 15 2012 09:41 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 05:00 Mogwai wrote:
maxing W is one of the stupidest things you can do with Wu, sorry mang. agreed. ur killing ur damage so much by doing this.. there is NO way its worth it. But I do enjoy jungling as wukong tho like mentioned. His ganks are weak until 6, but not terrible witha red buff. Also u can come thru the top lane thru the top bush, w from the first bush to the 2nd one (obv ur top lane has to shove a bit here) and then when u pop from the 2nd bush in behind him or even in front of him its a bit of an "o shit" moment for their top.
you're over complicating the gank, just W out of that bush and smack them in the face with your red instead of trying to set up the long con, lol.
honestly though, I'm not a big fan of jangle Wu. he benefits so much from the farm level you get in top lane. every time I jungle wu, I just get sad at like 25 minutes when I hit their ranged AD with EQR and they don't die  .
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Man, I just played Wukong solo top vs Garen and got destroyed. I would E onto him, auto, Q, and he would silence me so I couldn't W, and he would proceed to start killing me, and chasing me if I ran, and when I got unsilenced and used W, he'd spin and kill me. (I opened cloth+5 and he opened D-Blade)
Do I have to farm at my tower, or is there a better way to approach this lane?
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On March 16 2012 12:07 NotTheMonker wrote:
Man, I just played Wukong solo top vs Garen and got destroyed. I would E onto him, auto, Q, and he would silence me so I couldn't W, and he would proceed to start killing me, and chasing me if I ran, and when I got unsilenced and used W, he'd spin and kill me. (I opened cloth+5 and he opened D-Blade)
Do I have to farm at my tower, or is there a better way to approach this lane?
Garen is the strongest champ in early game. You should've switched lanes with a ranged ad or good trader.
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On March 16 2012 12:46 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 12:07 NotTheMonker wrote:
Man, I just played Wukong solo top vs Garen and got destroyed. I would E onto him, auto, Q, and he would silence me so I couldn't W, and he would proceed to start killing me, and chasing me if I ran, and when I got unsilenced and used W, he'd spin and kill me. (I opened cloth+5 and he opened D-Blade)
Do I have to farm at my tower, or is there a better way to approach this lane? Garen is the strongest champ in early game. You should've switched lanes with a ranged ad or good trader.
Garen is not the strongest champ in the early game, but anyway...
Garen would probably beat wukong, but I don't see how he'll trade that favorably if you're just playing passive and making him fight in your creep wave. Just attack him back when he gets ontop of you and then Q->attack->E->attack as much as you can when he tries to disengage.
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It's probably just better to farm passively against Garen- if you build tanky, you're way more useful in teamfights than Garen is, so there's really no need to kill him in lane. The longer things drag on, the more likely you can deal with him toe to toe though.
Also, I don't really understand why everyone goes Frozen Mallet on Wukong. Well I do, I just think it sucks. Wukong does not really have issues chasing down people, so Frozen Mallet will let your team catch up to someone, but that is only really useful if you're winning teamfights. From watching IEM Hanover it seemed like all the Wukongs would get a fast Frozen Mallet, which would temporarily good for securing kills, but when 5v5 team fights would roll around they wouldn't be able to survive very well at all. I find the extra hitpoints on Warmogs is so much more valuable since you're usually in the midst of the entire enemy team, so the more survivability you have, the better. Also, you already get phage from Triforce if you go that route, and even failing that it isn't unusal to have red buff.
My go to build is mercs, wriggles, warmogs, atma's, sheen into triforce (and then the game usually ends before or just after Triforce is completed). I go 1/21/8 masteries, which I think is better for teamfights, due to the CDR, initiator, and juggernaut... most of Wukong's damage (in teamfights) is from his skills, not his autoattacking, so I feel like the offensive tree helps him a lot less than I initially thought. I realize the damage on this build is rather late, but I feel like my team almost never loses team fights if I go this route becaues I'm eating so much damage my team can wail on them without having to worry too much.
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On March 17 2012 05:24 zer0das wrote:
It's probably just better to farm passively against Garen- if you build tanky, you're way more useful in teamfights than Garen is, so there's really no need to kill him in lane. The longer things drag on, the more likely you can deal with him toe to toe though.
Also, I don't really understand why everyone goes Frozen Mallet on Wukong. Well I do, I just think it sucks. Wukong does not really have issues chasing down people, so Frozen Mallet will let your team catch up to someone, but that is only really useful if you're winning teamfights. From watching IEM Hanover it seemed like all the Wukongs would get a fast Frozen Mallet, which would temporarily good for securing kills, but when 5v5 team fights would roll around they wouldn't be able to survive very well at all. I find the extra hitpoints on Warmogs is so much more valuable since you're usually in the midst of the entire enemy team, so the more survivability you have, the better. Also, you already get phage from Triforce if you go that route, and even failing that it isn't unusal to have red buff.
My go to build is mercs, wriggles, warmogs, atma's, sheen into triforce (and then the game usually ends before or just after Triforce is completed). I go 1/21/8 masteries, which I think is better for teamfights, due to the CDR, initiator, and juggernaut... most of Wukong's damage (in teamfights) is from his skills, not his autoattacking, so I feel like the offensive tree helps him a lot less than I initially thought. I realize the damage on this build is rather late, but I feel like my team almost never loses team fights if I go this route becaues I'm eating so much damage my team can wail on them without having to worry too much.
But you lose so much roaming power, not surviving a tf if you've knocked up 3 of them and deal insane damage is still ok. Early phage is also great when there are squirmishes at blue/red. I've had way more success massing low cost items like suggested in op, wriggles, hog, phage, bruta, hexdrinker, aegis. I think your way you lack the big burst from his E Q R combo in the early stages. R scales very well and before lvl 11 you need the extra ad from phage, bruta or aegis and also the bonuses from offensive tree.
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I've been building Bloodthirster a lot more on Wukong these days. Not really sure if I like it better, but it's too much fun looking at your ult damage end game and just loling at the 600 damage/second. This character's AD scaling is straight up nuts.
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Ive been going for a bruta after wriggles before getting my phage etc. It feels really nice. Also, triple kill just from ult in a dragon fight o.O
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First post in this forum. I transferred over from the cesspool that is LoL general discussion.
So I figure I'll contribute, and I'm sure you guys can guide me through this forum and let me know if I do anything wrong.
Here's my runes and build:
3 armorPen
9 armorPen
9 armorPerLevel
9 cooldownReduction
philostone
trinity
warmogs
atmas
blackcleaver, bloodthirster or yommu's
boots in there somewhere.
I find this to be pretty solid and a good base to start on
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There are 2 opinions that i dont agree with and Ill describe why.
I think Frozen Mallet is a good item on wukong, but its not a lot of dps, and its not very tanky.
I only do this item when i am going pure tankiness (boots, wriggles, frozen mallet, warmogs, sunfire cape, atmas). . Aside from that, i Think a triforce gives you a LOT more damage and the ability to chase/catch any1 easily.
In my opinion the best build that i have done so far on wukong=
IF YOU CAN START DORANS BLADE (this playstyle is VERY different and very situational vs the more common cloth 5)
this build is my ideal build:
doran dorans brutalizer boots sheen, zeal, phage, triforce. warmogs, atmogs (upgrading boots between ur triforce items as needed) ( I get zeal be4 phage because i like to stay on t1 boots for a longtime and it gives me the speed boost for chasing and attacking as well as occasional crits which help a lot depending on when u get it)
And my last item is very situational depending on how things are going. I sub out dorans blades as i need to.
(if i HAVE to start cloth 5, i will usually still go for doran dorans and turn cloth armor into ninja tabi.. as i really think Wriggles is amazing... except on wukong. I just dont think he does enuf autoattacking for wriggles to be better than 2x dorans. and the 2x dorans are WAY less expensive. however if i Jungle wukong i will DEFINATELY get a wriggles.)
(**NOTE** Also when you go 2x dorans instead of wriggles.. everytime u go to buy, get at least 2-3 red hp pots. these will allow u to do full combos, and then regen ur hp back to full, and u will push them off the lane, especially if they went wriggles and didnt buy hp pots)
Why I go double dorans into brutalizer instead of wriggles:
double dorans are cheaper, and give more hp/damage. Wriggles is a sustain item. And the earliest you will get wriggles is usually around lvl 6. However for nearly the same gold u can have both dorans and at least 1 or 2 swords for ur brutalizer.
AD scales AMAZINGLY with ur abilities, so getting as much pure Ad as possible early= u do MASSIVE damage by level 6. If your opponent goes Wriggles, he will have around 30 less AD, as he built a sustain item and not a damage item.
IMO wukong has shitty sustain and works BETTER as a bully/duelist. ur combo allows u to work them down into a killable or low hp range where they will either die or go b. inb oth cases u get to free farm, so sustain wont be an issue.
I dont waste gold on boots until i have dorans x2 and brutalizer. WHY? because by putting all of my gold directly into combat items i can go against some1 with boots with a guaranteed item advantage. W is a good enuf escape/distance closer to initiate. And ya if he runs he might get away, but if he is running he isnt laning or getting cs or attacking you. You would rather having him running to base with 20% than winning vs u in trades. ** ALSO** Top lane is usually a very tanky bruiser champion, who will have quit a bit of armor. Brutalizer gives u two things to help u deal with bruisers... armor pen, and cd reduction. both will boost ur damage significantly against most top heros. When you have 2x doran and a brutalizer there are few champions that will stand toe to toe with ur pokes. but DO NOT WASTE GOLD upgrading ur boots to merc treads be4 the laning phase! you are throwing away 850 gold, that delays ur brutalizer by too long. There is a window where brutalizer makes u king of the lane, get it as soon as possible.)
Why i go triforce as opposed to warmogs first. Yes warmogs will give u more tankiness, and will no doubt make u beefier in early team fights. However with a bruta/sheen your burst damage is INSANE. there is no1 to fear once you have them. And you always have your W to get in and out of team fights without dieing. And since Wukong relies on combo and not auto-attacking.... W'ing out only to combo somebody again a couple seconds later is better than building tank and just sitting there as they wail on you. (also this is where wukong shines imo. with this sort of dance. he is tanky but as soon as he needs u just w out and gtfo of the fray. as soon as you see one of them low or out of position... BOOM u E/Q him and laugh. using ur W to get into or out of kill shots that other bruisers would have to die for)
With brutalizer/sheen your burst damage is pretty insane in the midgame. And this is where you do the majority of ur gold farming. Because now you beat most heros 1v1. Getting Warmogs early gives you survivability but gimps ur damage. If you dont want to go triforce before warmogs i at LEAST suggest getting Sheen before ur warmogs. the damage boost is too good as well as the boost to ur mana pool which will give u more mana=more combo=more pokes= more damage.
I have tried philo stone openings, but the truth is you are tooooo gimp. You will do almost no damage the guy laning vs you, and you will most likely have worse sustain against most top heros. (when wukong sustain is already his weak point.) IMO Philo stone = 800 wasted gold that you could have gotten a doran and a half. (more hp more damage) Also i do not agree with a Black Cleaver because Wukong isnt much of an auto attacker, he relies on his skills. I would suggest either getting tankier or getting a bloodthirster. I rarely upgrade my bruta into a yommu's because triforce gives me the move/aspeed that i want. I usually get a sunfire cape instead, as i find that most of the time i need more tankiness the later the game goes on.
Also Vs a Garen... you will never outsustain him.. You lose this lane, until u get the brutalizer, and can do a lot of damage thru that armor.
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sometimes you can delay boots that long, but not usually.
sheen is the worst of the 3 items in trinity on wukong. phage is the best. you build them in the wrong order.
brutalizer is best vs. low armor targets, not high armor targets.
sunfire cape is a pretty terrible item that you should be switching out for omen in your builds, especially since they all seem to include warmog's.
wriggle's is good if you want armor, which is most of the time in top lane. but as the op says, double dblade is fine if you don't need the armor.
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I start boots 2 d blades (first b) phage vamp scepter (2nd b), then build it into BT FM then get atmas and last whisper. For the last item build according to the fed, or a GA. I think wriggles is worthless on wukong.
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wriggle's isn't worthless on any bruiser. it's efficient at giving the stat's it gives and the stats are desirable in most bruiser vs. bruiser matchups. w/e though, I'm tired of arguing this, do w/e you want, but I'm not going to stop advocating wriggle's on wukong.
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wickd has been building BT on wukong recently
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On March 20 2012 02:05 skrzmark wrote:
wickd has been building BT on wukong recently
From 2 days ago, literally on the same exact page of this thread:
On March 18 2012 20:37 Mogwai wrote:
I've been building Bloodthirster a lot more on Wukong these days. Not really sure if I like it better, but it's too much fun looking at your ult damage end game and just loling at the 600 damage/second. This character's AD scaling is straight up nuts.
If I'm stomping on people, sure, I'll pass up on Wriggle's for bt, but this is the exception, not the rule. In close lanes, you're going to be better off with wriggle's + phage or wriggle's + bruta than a straight BT.
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On March 19 2012 22:31 Mogwai wrote:
sometimes you can delay boots that long, but not usually.
sheen is the worst of the 3 items in trinity on wukong. phage is the best. you build them in the wrong order.
brutalizer is best vs. low armor targets, not high armor targets.
sunfire cape is a pretty terrible item that you should be switching out for omen in your builds, especially since they all seem to include warmog's.
wriggle's is good if you want armor, which is most of the time in top lane. but as the op says, double dblade is fine if you don't need the armor.
i think you are completely 100% wrong.
How is sheen the worst item from a hero that does all of his damage from skills and not autoattacks?
Also sunfire cape is purely situational. I dont go it in most optimal builds, but occasionally the additional hp and armor is amazing. Having 4k hp when u dive into a team to ult = u tank a ton of hits and just W out.
How is brutalizer bad against heavy armor opponents when it gives armor pen?
Buying wriggles just for armor is stupid when u can just buy the 700 gold armor item or just get tabi instead for less gold.
I think the Omen part is a decent suggestion but i think you are completely wrong in every other sentence you wrote.
i love how u give answers with absolutely 0 reasons or explaining and say "because i said so". but whatever keep building phage be4 sheen. idc if more people build wrong.
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On March 20 2012 10:10 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 22:31 Mogwai wrote:
sometimes you can delay boots that long, but not usually.
sheen is the worst of the 3 items in trinity on wukong. phage is the best. you build them in the wrong order.
brutalizer is best vs. low armor targets, not high armor targets.
sunfire cape is a pretty terrible item that you should be switching out for omen in your builds, especially since they all seem to include warmog's.
wriggle's is good if you want armor, which is most of the time in top lane. but as the op says, double dblade is fine if you don't need the armor. i think you are completely 100% wrong. How is sheen the worst item from a hero that does all of his damage from skills and not autoattacks? Also sunfire cape is purely situational. I dont go it in most optimal builds, but occasionally the additional hp and armor is amazing. Having 4k hp when u dive into a team to ult = u tank a ton of hits and just W out. How is brutalizer bad against heavy armor opponents when it gives armor pen? Buying wriggles just for armor is stupid when u can just buy the 700 gold armor item or just get tabi instead for less gold. I think the Omen part is a decent suggestion but i think you are completely wrong in every other sentence you wrote. i love how u give answers with absolutely 0 reasons or explaining and say "because i said so". but whatever keep building phage be4 sheen. idc if more people build wrong.
Unlike Nasus who will nearly have max CDR for his siphoning strike procs, Wukong rarely itemizes that stat to the point where he can get Sheen going every time Q is off CD, so I don't know why Sheen would be the FIRST triforce part you'd get.
Brutalizer isn't effective when you're laning against another BRUISER. I sure as hell wouldn't try to get bruta against tabi/wriggle's anything top.
And really? The guy you're responding to is probably (read: 99% likely) more experienced playing the champion we're discussing, so there's a reason why we respect what he says.
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Sheen builds mana and ap, neither of which will help win exchanges. So you're more or less paying 1260g for just the passive.
Or for 55g more you could buy phage, which has both good stats and a useful passive. Just the +18 ad alone will give +120 damage to your full rotation. Factor in the hp + slow and sheen passive by itself really starts too look like its not worth 1.2k gold.
Armor is more efficient when you have low armor, so (flat) armor pen is also more efficient on low armor opponents. Example:
15 armor target -> 13% damage reduction
after 15 apen -> 0% damage reduction
100 armor target -> 50% damage reduction
after 15 apen -> 46% damage reduction
13% increase in damage is more than 4% :o
Wriggles is good if you want armor because its efficient and provides stats you want in addition to armor. Not much reason not to buy it if you want a mid tier item that gives armor alongside other stats. Also I don't think Mogwai was saying to buy it "just for the armor." I mean like if you ever find yourself wanting "just armor" on wukong then yeah go ahead and build 6 chain vests or w/e.
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On March 20 2012 10:10 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 22:31 Mogwai wrote:
sometimes you can delay boots that long, but not usually.
sheen is the worst of the 3 items in trinity on wukong. phage is the best. you build them in the wrong order.
brutalizer is best vs. low armor targets, not high armor targets.
sunfire cape is a pretty terrible item that you should be switching out for omen in your builds, especially since they all seem to include warmog's.
wriggle's is good if you want armor, which is most of the time in top lane. but as the op says, double dblade is fine if you don't need the armor. i think you are completely 100% wrong. How is sheen the worst item from a hero that does all of his damage from skills and not autoattacks? Also sunfire cape is purely situational. I dont go it in most optimal builds, but occasionally the additional hp and armor is amazing. Having 4k hp when u dive into a team to ult = u tank a ton of hits and just W out. How is brutalizer bad against heavy armor opponents when it gives armor pen? Buying wriggles just for armor is stupid when u can just buy the 700 gold armor item or just get tabi instead for less gold. I think the Omen part is a decent suggestion but i think you are completely wrong in every other sentence you wrote. i love how u give answers with absolutely 0 reasons or explaining and say "because i said so". but whatever keep building phage be4 sheen. idc if more people build wrong.
Mogwai is a high elo player who contributes a lot of information to this subforum. He is allowed to give shorter answers without as much explanation because he is well known and we all trust that he has a thought out position. A lot of times people just want information from a better player, he wasn't trying to be mean, just helping out.
It is ok to disagree but there is no need to get huffy about it.
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EPT
