EPT[Champion] Wukong - Page 3
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:19 Slayer91 wrote: You press E, you auto hit, animation cancel with Q, and then keep hitting until you want to get away or use W to get away, if you have ult you ult on top of that, I don't see why this guy is confusing to you guys. Toss on ignite if it's in kill range. Hopefully when ult is done you'll be able to chase down and E auto hit Q him again to finish him off. yep, pretty much. his 1v1 playstyle is pretty straightforward. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
He came back with boots and a ward and I forced him out again. I hit 6 and killed him with ignite/ult. I was up a kill and about 25 CS at this point. After some more time he gets wriggles while I have been unsuccessful in forcing him out of lane again. I had gone 2 dorans/mercs and was building bruta while he had tabi and wriggles. He killed me dove me when we were both 3/4 health with the help of a Man drop gank on my tower. After this point I was effectively zoned, WW just autoattacked me whenever I came into range for creeps and my EQ auto attack was not trading efficiently with his Q's. And having to use W burned my mana every trade while he was able to just heal up on creeps and constantly pushed the lane. The rest of my team wasn't helpful when I asked (for ganks and such) so I am wondering what I could have done myself to prevent this from happening. The only thing I can think of is instead of 2 dorans, to go wriggles myself and skip bruta and go straight to phage but even then I don't see how efficient I can trade after a certain point. Just looking for pointers in the Monkey vs Werewolf battle | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On February 25 2012 06:07 Bladeorade wrote: Yesterday I picked Wukong for top before the enemy team had picked a top. They chose a Warwick. He started Dring while i started boots 3. He came from blue with about 3/4 health so I figured he tanked some hits by accident and I engaged on him in the bush (I was top, he was bottom.) I auto'd till he Q'd then chased with E while hitting him as he ran since I started boots and forced him out of lane at level 2. He came back with boots and a ward and I forced him out again. I hit 6 and killed him with ignite/ult. I was up a kill and about 25 CS at this point. After some more time he gets wriggles while I have been unsuccessful in forcing him out of lane again. I had gone 2 dorans/mercs and was building bruta while he had tabi and wriggles. He killed me dove me when we were both 3/4 health with the help of a Man drop gank on my tower. After this point I was effectively zoned, WW just autoattacked me whenever I came into range for creeps and my EQ auto attack was not trading efficiently with his Q's. And having to use W burned my mana every trade while he was able to just heal up on creeps and constantly pushed the lane. The rest of my team wasn't helpful when I asked (for ganks and such) so I am wondering what I could have done myself to prevent this from happening. The only thing I can think of is instead of 2 dorans, to go wriggles myself and skip bruta and go straight to phage but even then I don't see how efficient I can trade after a certain point. Just looking for pointers in the Monkey vs Werewolf battle You allocated your money poorly. You're playing burst vs. sustain, so when you commit 850 unnecessary gold towards merc treads, it's no surprise that he murdered you. You basically threw away your lead for stats that don't help you in the matchup. Instead of building mercs and then working towards a brutalizer vs. a dude with well over 100 armor, build a Wriggle's, then move on to Phage. You have to keep your burst higher than his sustain while also giving yourself enough sustain to heal off his Q damage to trade favorably. defensive investments aren't going to allow you to do that, especially one that spends ~400 gold purely on CC reduction that is literally uselss vs. WW in lane. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
Could you tell me when I should pick the Monkey over Riven ? I find both to have a similar gameplan but don't really grasp when the monkey is better (except that he's much more scary late game). Thank you very much ! | ||
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
But i agree completely with the boots statement. You wasted gold on an investment that was not worth it at that time. When I wukong (who is my complete 100% favorite hero) I have found that getting to lvl 4 and starting with Dorans/Ad reds and quints. At level 4 you use your full combo to get in, get out taking the least amount of damage possible. And you should be able to force them back, even if you have to use an ignite. I dont suggest using ur Q/E early unless he walks into melee range and gives u a free shot., wait till lvl 4 and use ur full combo to try to out-trade him. I dont bother going wriggles when I play top, as getting double dorans and then going into brutalizer will let you trade more efficiently with full combo's. Wukong's sustain isnt great but his poke is pretty damn good after lvl 4. So i dont like to waste gold on Wriggles when i play top as wukong, instead I go for more pure damage to boost my poke combo damage to try to edge out a 1v1 lead over top. Also most heros that counter wukong in lane phase, are not nearly as strong in the mid/late game as long as the other doesnt get insanely ahead in farm or kills. Wukongs ult is one of the best teamfight ults in the game (especially when grouped with other Aoe ults like Malphite, Kennen, Vlad, etc). In my opinion it is REALLY easy to counter wukong in hero selection, as a LOT of top bruisers out sustain him, but with a jungle helping you top a lot you will carry ur team a lot harder later than others. Ive played with HP5 quints, armor quints, move speed quints, armor pen quints... and I always came back to the fact that Wukong has shitty sustain, and will never outsustain the heros that have really good sustain (like Garen, irelia, Warwick etc). and to the guy who went against a WW and was questioning about the matchup.... you will NEVER out sustain him, your only chance is outplaying him and managing ur cooldowns/mana like a beast and work him down til he gets lazy and u catch him with low enuf hp to either kill him or force him off the lane. IMO your options are to Bully them due to runes/masters/greedy dorans start. OR Get a lot of help from your jungle to help get you into the lead so you can not be bullied out of ur own lane. | ||
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meltzu
Finland41 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 12 2012 21:32 meltzu wrote: I would never start with dorans @top lane, because if a jungle gank comes, you're slow as hell and you have zero sustain. You won't win any trades if your opponent goes cloth/5pot or boots/3pot. Well, there are a few cases where you want a dorans. Someone like Pantheon, for example, is going to look to trade at every opportunity. With a dorans blade there is NO way you are going to be able to out trade him, and because of how low CD his spear is, he will either get a kill or have the enemy completely zoned. I dont know if Wukong is capable of THAT kind of play, but he very well could be. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
As for Wu vs. Riven. Wu has a scarier initial teamfight presence by a lot. E -> R has a lot of reach and is a giant AoE problem, whereas Riven moves in shorter bursts and has no threats that really compare to Wu's ult. That being said, Riven's a superior duelist and wins a lot of lanes that Wu can't. She's also a little asshole though, so if you want to be a real man, you should always pick Wukong. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
Early levels seemed pretty even, but his jungler ganked at level 3, I escaped but lost a lot health. After that I was slightly zoned for a little bit. He backed and bought Wriggle's, I could only afford Madred's. And then he just started trucking me, like half my health in 2-3 hits of Tiger stance, my damage was pitiful in comparison. Even CS under tower he would get stray hits it that chunked me. Eventually things turned around a bit when he and their jungler tower dived me and I got a double kill, but the lane seemed really, really hard. Even after the double I couldn't find him 1v1 until much later in the game. | ||
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
On March 12 2012 21:39 Two_DoWn wrote: Well, there are a few cases where you want a dorans. Someone like Pantheon, for example, is going to look to trade at every opportunity. With a dorans blade there is NO way you are going to be able to out trade him, and because of how low CD his spear is, he will either get a kill or have the enemy completely zoned. I dont know if Wukong is capable of THAT kind of play, but he very well could be. Well Pantheon hard counters wukong in my opinion, as his passive = there is no poking in and out. In Lanes like there where you clearly have no chance of winning in trades u have to start cloth 5 or boots 3. I shouldnt say always start dorans, but i feel like dorans is a strong start against lanes where you have the potential of bullying. however, in some matchups, you just flat out lose regardless of how the 2 of you start in regards to items. IN my opinion to post above me, against Udyr, you just sort of survive, and build around lvl 6. Get to a point where when you reach lvl 6 you have best possible items that u can and at least remain even in lvls. At lvl 6 you get ur ultimate which is a big stun and a lot of damage, as well as the 3rd skill to a combo. At lvl 6 for udyr he only gets another point in something he already had. He doesnt get any real big gain at lvl 6. IMO if you can NOT get bullied by udyr pre-6 then you gain a LOT of ground once you have ur ult/ignite up as with full combos u can do quite a bit to him, either forcing him to be less aggressive or force a kill/back. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
In fact, I just love when anyone does not start cloth+pots vs wukong, kennen and rumble for exemple often starts boots + 3 and you can trade so well with them. I specially love the pushed rumble, "I'm at my tower, I want my CS soI don't care if I autosilence" then you E Q ignite R on him and he often moans on this stupid silence in all chat. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
Panth destroys Wu by opening dblade. All he has to do in the above scenario is back after he gets to your tower after zoning you for a couple minutes and depleting your pots a bit, buy his own pots and a ward, and then you're fucked because your lane will start pushing and he has an item edge so it's right back to getting zoned again. The dude you played vs. done fucked it up. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On March 14 2012 00:00 Mogwai wrote: Udyr pretty much stomps Wu. Yes you make up ground at level 6, but that only matters if your jungler comes, as you cannot burst that fucker even with EQR+ignite. It's a bad matchup. Generally speaking, it's kinda impossible to trade with Udyr or sustain vs. him. Udyr is a huge fucking problem top right now but people don't seem fully aware of it yet. Panth destroys Wu by opening dblade. All he has to do in the above scenario is back after he gets to your tower after zoning you for a couple minutes and depleting your pots a bit, buy his own pots and a ward, and then you're fucked because your lane will start pushing and he has an item edge so it's right back to getting zoned again. The dude you played vs. done fucked it up. It was not only one, but i'm only around 1600. Thank you for the help playing panth. But I don't understand how panth can do more than 5x150-100 from dblade so 650 dmg more than wuk does him in several trades early. I'd like to try to understand. Because you really have a tons of armor while you nearly does true damage to him with 21 apen +Q. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On December 15 2011 04:32 Mogwai wrote: It's simple, you cannot commit to a fight with cloth armor vs. dblade, dblade guy wins every time. So essentially, with dblade, you pick fights and put the responsibility for disengaging on your opponents. Disengaging from dblade Pantheon with cloth armor means you eat an extra spear to the back of the head, every time. It also means that while you pot up, Pantheon builds his passive back up and lifesteals and gains cs and levels on you. This means you simple cannot fight him until the creep wave equalizes so that you catch up in levels and have time to let your pots kick in, which can only happen once it gets to your tower because Pantheon will not let you get into position to shove the wave back without forcing another unfavorable trade. Once he gets you to your tower, Pantheon has an option: 1. he's ahead enough to dive you and kill you (always good for panth, even if he dies because he gets FB gold and you miss out of a ton of XP to the tower murdering his pushing wave) 2. he's not ahead enough to dive you and he backs off to buy. now, this might seem to be like it's a way that he lets you catch back up, but in reality this FUCKS people up because they're usually down 3-4 pots, down in cs from having to last hit under tower at low level and Pantheon returns with bare minimum 3 pots + a ward or even up to boots + that or a 2nd dblade + ward + 1-2 pots. If you try to catch up to him on items, you have to back. If you back, he can push the wave to your tower if his wave is pushing, or even worse he can pull the wave to his tower if your wave is pushing, which lets him safely zone you with a river ward and item advantage. thing is, that even if they could break completely even with you with cloth + 5 pots, they consumed 175 gold on potions, while you didn't. I don't care if cloth builds into stuff, dblade is stupidly efficient, I wouldn't regret the purchase because they're not looking at the same sort of efficiency from their cloth armor until they get to wriggle's which is 1300 gold down the road, 1650 if they want boots and more realistically ~2000 if they want to ward and get the pots they need to not get butchered like an animal in lane. From my Panth thread ^ Most people don't understand how to play the dblade opening though, so if they just sit in lane when their wave gets to your tower with no pots and no wards, you'll win with cloth every time. | ||
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
- When laning against a melee, max W and aggressively walk and press S very often. You'll be able to farm and harrass with fun mindgames. When getting chased by (smart) opponents; - Instead of pressing W and running to your tower; press S instead of W. then wait a few seconds and press W to run in opposite direction. Saved my life multiple times and it always feels great. I love Wukong, I even jungle with him from time to time Because monkeys LIVE in the jungle yo | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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