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On January 13 2012 10:47 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I think malph works if he has more armor or panth doesn't follow up with his trades and they just poke each other. Otherwise I'm not too sure.
Any reason why malphite works?
Granite Shield negates a lot of Pantheon's harass, Q is very good gank assistance, W is an armor steroid. Malphite tends to stack lots of armor.
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Like, literally everything about Malphite is a direct counter to Pantheon. Shard reduces ms, so Pantheon's aggressive zoning means 100% gank rate. W gives Malphite the upper hand in creep trades. Ground Slam shuts auto-attacks down completely, meaning less aegis procs and less lifesteal and less damage output. Malphite's ult is an aoe knockup gapcloser nuke while Pantheon's can't be cast easily in lane and usually does nothing 1v1. Everything about this matchup is just so in Malphite's favor that it's unfair.
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Also yeah, as far as fun goes, Pantheon is easily the most fun champ in the whole game right now. You just feel so stupidly stronk and didn't afraid of anything. Start 8-0 in the first 10 minutes and start towerdiving bases at level 9. Fuck playing to win, I just play to kill people in SUPER DEEP spots.
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I'm not sure that I really agree with the rush Last Whisper strategy to counter armor stackers. By the time you actually finish Last Whisper you're starting to get to the stage where you could a: lose your tower and no longer have a real 1v1 scenario or b: have a teamfight in which your lane opponent is not the person you want to be attacking. Your damage against squishies (your preferred targets at that stage of the game) is significantly hampered by Last Whisper first instead of Brutalizer -> Bloodthirster, and to be honest even with the Last Whisper you will still have a tough time actually killing the armor stacker.
I feel like instead of trying to specifically counter your lane opponent's build at the expense of your damage against all other targets, you're better off sticking with a more generalized approach, just farming and switching lanes if at all possible.
Have you actually had much success Smash at going LW against someone spamming armor against you?
I just played a game as Malphite against Pantheon and he rushed Last Whisper after boots but it did him no good, his damage was still pretty bad against me, but on top of that he wasn't much of a threat to our Caitlyn either... For reference I went Cloth+5, Chain Vest, Boots1, Glacial, Frozen Heart -> Merc's.
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On January 13 2012 13:24 Alzadar wrote:
I'm not sure that I really agree with the rush Last Whisper strategy to counter armor stackers. By the time you actually finish Last Whisper you're starting to get to the stage where you could a: lose your tower and no longer have a real 1v1 scenario or b: have a teamfight in which your lane opponent is not the person you want to be attacking. Your damage against squishies (your preferred targets at that stage of the game) is significantly hampered by Last Whisper first instead of Brutalizer -> Bloodthirster, and to be honest even with the Last Whisper you will still have a tough time actually killing the armor stacker.
I feel like instead of trying to specifically counter your lane opponent's build at the expense of your damage against all other targets, you're better off sticking with a more generalized approach, just farming and switching lanes if at all possible.
Have you actually had much success Smash at going LW against someone spamming armor against you?
I just played a game as Malphite against Pantheon and he rushed Last Whisper after boots but it did him no good, his damage was still pretty bad against me, but on top of that he wasn't much of a threat to our Caitlyn either... For reference I went Cloth+5, Chain Vest, Boots1, Glacial, Frozen Heart -> Merc's.
Can you reference me the post where the rush LW strat was originally espoused? I didn't see it in the discussion recently and I want a refresher.
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On January 13 2012 13:24 Alzadar wrote:
I'm not sure that I really agree with the rush Last Whisper strategy to counter armor stackers. By the time you actually finish Last Whisper you're starting to get to the stage where you could a: lose your tower and no longer have a real 1v1 scenario or b: have a teamfight in which your lane opponent is not the person you want to be attacking. Your damage against squishies (your preferred targets at that stage of the game) is significantly hampered by Last Whisper first instead of Brutalizer -> Bloodthirster, and to be honest even with the Last Whisper you will still have a tough time actually killing the armor stacker.
I feel like instead of trying to specifically counter your lane opponent's build at the expense of your damage against all other targets, you're better off sticking with a more generalized approach, just farming and switching lanes if at all possible.
Have you actually had much success Smash at going LW against someone spamming armor against you?
I just played a game as Malphite against Pantheon and he rushed Last Whisper after boots but it did him no good, his damage was still pretty bad against me, but on top of that he wasn't much of a threat to our Caitlyn either... For reference I went Cloth+5, Chain Vest, Boots1, Glacial, Frozen Heart -> Merc's.
there was this one game where I was, like, not really drunk, but kinda buzzed and I started tilting when I got CPed with a Malphite. dblades, bruta, lw, raped him six ways from sunday NPNP. *shrug* lw is good anyway, I can't see a reason you wouldn't get it vs. FH rush Cho/Malphite since if you don't, you'll just get ignored and raped, but at least with LW rush you can deal damage to them.
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Should you be using your autoattacks to harass/poke if they come into range or just spear and not risk aggro?
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Canada13430 Posts
I just downloaded the game and Pantheon looks cool. Should I play him or should I be using a more noob friendly character.
As an aside: where is the best Noob guide to help me better understand the game faster? I was hoping TL would have one but I havent been able to find it.
I think LoL can be a fun kind of game to unwind with 
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Since I remember how daunting IP costs seemed when I first started playing, especially because saving up to buy your runes is extremely IP heavy, I'd recommend you take advantage of the free rotation champs as much as you can. You have a lot of fun learning a variety of champs this way. But there are plenty of good champs in the 450 and 1350 range. I definitely recommend picking up Sivir, Soraka, and Ryze as they are all great champs at the lowest cost.
Get Alistar and Tristana for free through their youtube/facebook.
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On January 13 2012 23:59 rwrzr wrote:
Should you be using your autoattacks to harass/poke if they come into range or just spear and not risk aggro?
it's matchup dependent but usually you want to auto them when you can.
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I actually have to remember to auto with Pantheon >.> I played a few games and got so many kills with just QWEQ that I forgot his autoattacks actually do a fuckton of damage since you're building AD.
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Me too - it's really easy to forget, particularly as you're the kind of champ who needs to be jinking around. Also, late game with those bloodthirsters, autoattacks can help keep you alive through the lifesteal.
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I think half of what makes a Pantheon a good Pantheon in lane is whether they know they're supposed to auto attack too.
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On January 13 2012 14:25 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 13:24 Alzadar wrote:
I'm not sure that I really agree with the rush Last Whisper strategy to counter armor stackers. By the time you actually finish Last Whisper you're starting to get to the stage where you could a: lose your tower and no longer have a real 1v1 scenario or b: have a teamfight in which your lane opponent is not the person you want to be attacking. Your damage against squishies (your preferred targets at that stage of the game) is significantly hampered by Last Whisper first instead of Brutalizer -> Bloodthirster, and to be honest even with the Last Whisper you will still have a tough time actually killing the armor stacker.
I feel like instead of trying to specifically counter your lane opponent's build at the expense of your damage against all other targets, you're better off sticking with a more generalized approach, just farming and switching lanes if at all possible.
Have you actually had much success Smash at going LW against someone spamming armor against you?
I just played a game as Malphite against Pantheon and he rushed Last Whisper after boots but it did him no good, his damage was still pretty bad against me, but on top of that he wasn't much of a threat to our Caitlyn either... For reference I went Cloth+5, Chain Vest, Boots1, Glacial, Frozen Heart -> Merc's. there was this one game where I was, like, not really drunk, but kinda buzzed and I started tilting when I got CPed with a Malphite. dblades, bruta, lw, raped him six ways from sunday NPNP. *shrug* lw is good anyway, I can't see a reason you wouldn't get it vs. FH rush Cho/Malphite since if you don't, you'll just get ignored and raped, but at least with LW rush you can deal damage to them.
Just did a bit of actual math. Comparing DBlade + LW + 2xLongsword with DBlade + Brutalizer + BF Sword (equal cost), the LW outperforms the other in Spear damage at only 60 armor, which is pretty low.
But if you start talking about a stacked DBlade + Bloodthirster (stacked) + Brutalizer vs DBlade + LW + BF Sword + Vamp (equal cost)... Bloodthirster is better even if the target has 120 armor.
Then if you look at HSS, things swing heavily in favour of Bloodthirster: better even at 200+ armor. It's because of the mad AD ratio on it.
It's definitely an interesting issue, but seeing as later in the game HSS becomes more and more your primary source of damage, I think BT should almost always come before LW.
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Went 24-3 with him yesterday
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On January 14 2012 10:13 stormtemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 08:52 Alzadar wrote:On January 13 2012 14:25 Mogwai wrote:On January 13 2012 13:24 Alzadar wrote:
I'm not sure that I really agree with the rush Last Whisper strategy to counter armor stackers. By the time you actually finish Last Whisper you're starting to get to the stage where you could a: lose your tower and no longer have a real 1v1 scenario or b: have a teamfight in which your lane opponent is not the person you want to be attacking. Your damage against squishies (your preferred targets at that stage of the game) is significantly hampered by Last Whisper first instead of Brutalizer -> Bloodthirster, and to be honest even with the Last Whisper you will still have a tough time actually killing the armor stacker.
I feel like instead of trying to specifically counter your lane opponent's build at the expense of your damage against all other targets, you're better off sticking with a more generalized approach, just farming and switching lanes if at all possible.
Have you actually had much success Smash at going LW against someone spamming armor against you?
I just played a game as Malphite against Pantheon and he rushed Last Whisper after boots but it did him no good, his damage was still pretty bad against me, but on top of that he wasn't much of a threat to our Caitlyn either... For reference I went Cloth+5, Chain Vest, Boots1, Glacial, Frozen Heart -> Merc's. there was this one game where I was, like, not really drunk, but kinda buzzed and I started tilting when I got CPed with a Malphite. dblades, bruta, lw, raped him six ways from sunday NPNP. *shrug* lw is good anyway, I can't see a reason you wouldn't get it vs. FH rush Cho/Malphite since if you don't, you'll just get ignored and raped, but at least with LW rush you can deal damage to them. Just did a bit of actual math. Comparing DBlade + LW + 2xLongsword with DBlade + Brutalizer + BF Sword (equal cost), the LW outperforms the other in Spear damage at only 60 armor, which is pretty low. But if you start talking about a stacked DBlade + Bloodthirster (stacked) + Brutalizer vs DBlade + LW + BF Sword + Vamp (equal cost)... Bloodthirster is better even if the target has 120 armor. Then if you look at HSS, things swing heavily in favour of Bloodthirster: better even at 200+ armor. It's because of the mad AD ratio on it. It's definitely an interesting issue, but seeing as later in the game HSS becomes more and more your primary source of damage, I think BT should almost always come before LW. Wait. If BT is worse early and better late, shouldn't LW come first?
No. LW is better before you finish + charge the Bloodthirster. The Bloodthirster beats the LW once completed, even against heavily armored targets. Against low armored targets it's completely lopsided, BT deals 30% more damage.
Basically there's a big power dip where you spend 1350 gold for only 15 AD (building the BT out of BF). The Bloodthirster needs stacks to be powerful, but once you get them it beats any other option.
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i went into a game all confident and shit. how does Pantheon fare with Swain? i died to him 1-6 :l
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If you don't hit 6 two levels before he does you're probably gonna lose, and even then you might still lose.
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EPT
