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On March 25 2012 16:00 courtpanda wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 15:58 gtrsrs wrote:On March 25 2012 15:53 courtpanda wrote:
my problem with jungle mundo is sustain. while his clear is amazing, his burning agony drains so much health. other than lifesteal quints, how does it work? i don't run lifesteal/vamp/HP5 and i don't ever get low except the very last camp of my first run... are you running adequate defensive runes, like full armor yellows, and 21 def? open boots + 3 or cloth + 5, making sure you pot at all buff camps at the least. don't really need a pot at wolves or wraiths, i use my other pots on minigolems. what is your path and where are you getting low? ive only tried him twice, and it was a while ago so i dont really remember i start wolves with help -> blue -> wraiths -> red ->golems. i think i was too low to gank so i bluepilled. arpen reds, flat armor yellows, mr/level blues, flat health quints, 9/21/0
Burning Agony kinda mediocre early game. Get E first it crazy steroid, then Q for the ganks. I dunno, how I start depend on my team. If they need Ganks I start boots three, if not I start vamp.
I never really have problem clearing whole jungle and ganking either way... personally. I've been running flat HP quints, 3 ArPen reds, 6 AS reds, and AS blues and I just breeze through jungles with 9/21/0.
I dunno why/how, but I thought same as you and then suddenly... it just worked. Play a few practice games, you'll figure it out.
/shrug.
I'd definitely say Mundo is a lot harder to jungle than most except for maybe a LeeSin, but once you figure it out he farms well, ganks well, and is just awesome.
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definitely do not max E on mundo nor negate his W. why turn the fastest AoE clearer into a single-target clearer with no innate AS boost or auto-reset? i don't even touch E til level 10 most of the time
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On March 25 2012 16:39 gtrsrs wrote:
definitely do not max E on mundo nor negate his W. why turn the fastest AoE clearer into a single-target clearer with no innate AS boost or auto-reset? i don't even touch E til level 10 most of the time
a lvl in E for the + 50 ad is really good
I dont know why you wouldnt atleast get a level in it, makes no real sense.
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W is first priority on jungling, but E is critical for champ vs champ interactions with mundo. 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 free base AD is nothing to scoff at, not to mention the bonus from % hp missing. Granted, I don't play much jungle mundo, mostly top when I do end up playing him, but E needs to be the second priority after whatever other skill u max first (cleaver in lane, agony in jungle)
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idk i don't run any armor pen and none of his other skills scale off of AD, and getting auto attacks off is pretty hard in ganks unless you already have red + land cleavers... in which case W probably out-damages the + damage from E anyway if you can stick to someone
i think SV also does not level E at all
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On March 25 2012 16:39 gtrsrs wrote:
definitely do not max E on mundo nor negate his W. why turn the fastest AoE clearer into a single-target clearer with no innate AS boost or auto-reset? i don't even touch E til level 10 most of the time
Oh, I didn't mean max E first...
That silly.
R->W->Q->E, EQWWW. Level 1 E way better at clearing jungle than level 1 W.
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if you start blue, which is faster, going E->W or W->E?
i can see how (in theory) E would clear blue faster, then the 1 point in W would clear wolves and wraiths
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On March 25 2012 17:03 courtpanda wrote:
if you start blue, which is faster, going E->W or W->E?
i can see how (in theory) E would clear blue faster, then the 1 point in W would clear wolves and wraiths
E much stronger at clearing big camps. They do about the same amount of damage to a single target at level 1, but you take like a tenth of the self inflicted damage from E that you do from W which makes it much safer.
I go E->Q though because it makes for the best level 2 ganks. You land two cleavers and E boosted autos things die so fast. Then you mundo, so even if you fail you just farm yourself back into the game ezpz anyway.
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i have LoL uninstalled, so i cant test this, but
which of these would be fastest, and leaves you with the msot HP
1) E->W, big wolf, blue, small wolves
2) E->W, blue, wolves
3) W->E wolves, blue
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Wolves will not give you enough experience to level up, so the question is
W wolves blue
E wolves blue
EW blue wolves
These things are true:
E kills blue buff faster and leaves you with more health.
W kills wolves much faster and leaves you with about as much health.
Help on wolves and blue almost completely negates these differences.
So, if you can trust your team to do a good job of leashing blue and hurting wolves for you, you should focus on which is faster/safer for clearing the rest of the jungle and which is stronger for ganking. The answer is: Q first is strongest for ganking, but makes jungling slow and impossible and isn't really worth it. In ganks, the E vs W tradeoff is questionable, and personally I feel them to be very close in terms of ganking power. For jungling, W is significantly faster in terms of clear speed, but less safe and slower on buffs. W also requires spell vamp quints for it to be even remotely safe.
If you can't trust your team/for some reason can't get a leash, E blue W wolves is preferable to W wolves blue or E wolves blue.
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So is it worth it to get mundo for jungle if I don't have have spellvamp runes? Have enough for Shyv but I was thinking I could save the ip for other more important runes plus get a champ that's not banned a lot.
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Wow. People in here saying don't get E at all? /mindblown
Always get one point of E by level 4. Typical is W>E>W>Q, but W>Q>W>E if you do level 2 gank.
On March 27 2012 04:54 mordek wrote:
So is it worth it to get mundo for jungle if I don't have have spellvamp runes? Have enough for Shyv but I was thinking I could save the ip for other more important runes plus get a champ that's not banned a lot.
You don't even need spell vamp runes. Actually I don't think it's even good to use spellvamp runes on jungle mundo. Armor/MR(scaling or not doesnt really matter) is standard.
For quints and reds you can use anywhere from all aspd or a mix of aspd and arp.
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Gonna write a little mini-guide here. I'm 1800 rating and it's been working for me and it's what SV's been doing.
Summoners: Smite/Exhaust
Masteries:
9/21/0 - Tree - Grabbing the MPen mastery instead of the ArPen one because most of your damage will be magical (W and Q).
21/9/0 - Tree - Can grab both penetration masteries. You get a bit low with this setup, but autos with E does a LOT of damage.
Runes:
Rincent
Saintvicious
Both work. Just a matter of preference.
Jungling:
Wolves>Blue: Start W always if you arent invading. Pretty standard. Try to get a good pull. If you can get away with not smiting, go to enemy red after blue and just steal it and gank bottom/top depending on what side, then gank. If get a bad pull, just proceed with jungle.
Enemy Wraiths>Red: Same thing. Start W, leave 1 wraith. Do the red. If bottom or top is being agressive, get a point in Q and go in after the minion wave passes by and its a free kill with exhaust. If you're lucky, you can even get a double kill bottom. Otherwise get E for jungling and wait for level 4 for Q.
If the enemy lane is passive, don't show yourself and just proceed with the jungle because if enemy jungler sees you top or bottom, they can just take your blue/red depending on his start.
Items:
Start boots 3 if you plan on just finishing your own jungle and then ganking. Cloth 5 for heavy jungling/counterjungling.
Try to get a heart of gold ASAP, and then finish your boots next (tabi or mercs). If enemy is warding a lot, get an oracle after you get HoG and Boots2.
As mundo, you should be consistantly be farming and be much higher cs than enemy jungler. Know when to gank, most of the time it's almost always better to farm then fail a gank.
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I've tried mundo tonight a bit in solo queue and tbf I failed really hard. People here say you never get low after your first clear but I didn't really find it to be the case. This leaves a tossup between saving r for a speedboost/dive when ganking or using it asap while jungling. Also because it's solo queue I didn't really feel safe to counterjungle at any point (probably due to lack of experience, but also because I'd be at like 60%ish after a full clear and the prospect of getting face to face with the enemy didn't really excite me).
I think main problem I had is that I got used to wriggles junglers (noc/olaf) and thus didn't feel comfortable without knowing that I won't take any noticeable damage at all after taking any camp. With mundo and his ridiculously low AA damage and the fact that he actually drains his health to clear it's a completely different experience.
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Mundo is very resistant to counter-jungling, with his perma 40% and quick clear times if the enemy is roaming into your jungle alone they will most likely find your creeps either dead or you are there with a cleaver to their face. Not many can kill you or get away with being in your jungle 1v1.
I will not usually counter-jungle with Mundo unless I see the enemy jungler on the map, your only "get away" skill is your ult and if you walk over a ward or find the enemy jungler you will have a tough time if the laners come get you. You're not like Udyr/Shyvana where you have constant high movespeed or Lee Sin with wall jumps.
The difference between Mundo and other junglers I find is that he never has to go back to base - ever. I'm fine going into a gank and going straight back to jungling at 20% hp, his ult is on such a low cd you can use it after every single jungle clear. Just keep actively clearing your jungle and you will always come out ahead of cs and levels of the enemy jungler, it's not unusual to find yourself 1-2 levels ahead. You're constantly on the map ready to counter-gank or counter-jungle if you see the enemy jungler, and have usually have time to jump in a lane and pressure with cleavers and go for some risky ganks when exhaust is up.
He really isn't a "tank" though, his ult is easily countered by MF/Trist/Ignite and that's his only real tank steroid - any other champ with the same items is actually more tanky because of the HP use on skills. Also WW can easily hit 500+ on his Q on you, I would pick mundo into any of those heroes.
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On March 27 2012 04:44 Tooplark wrote:
Wolves will not give you enough experience to level up, so the question is
W wolves blue
E wolves blue
EW blue wolves
These things are true:
E kills blue buff faster and leaves you with more health.
W kills wolves much faster and leaves you with about as much health.
Help on wolves and blue almost completely negates these differences.
So, if you can trust your team to do a good job of leashing blue and hurting wolves for you, you should focus on which is faster/safer for clearing the rest of the jungle and which is stronger for ganking. The answer is: Q first is strongest for ganking, but makes jungling slow and impossible and isn't really worth it. In ganks, the E vs W tradeoff is questionable, and personally I feel them to be very close in terms of ganking power. For jungling, W is significantly faster in terms of clear speed, but less safe and slower on buffs. W also requires spell vamp quints for it to be even remotely safe.
If you can't trust your team/for some reason can't get a leash, E blue W wolves is preferable to W wolves blue or E wolves blue.
Thing is, even at my mid level ELO (about 1500, give or take 100~) people suck at leashing. The number of times i've seen people just reset red makes me so incredibly sad.
You're red resets with E it no problem at all... your red resets with W you are screwed.
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On March 27 2012 08:59 greggy wrote:
I've tried mundo tonight a bit in solo queue and tbf I failed really hard. People here say you never get low after your first clear but I didn't really find it to be the case. This leaves a tossup between saving r for a speedboost/dive when ganking or using it asap while jungling. Also because it's solo queue I didn't really feel safe to counterjungle at any point (probably due to lack of experience, but also because I'd be at like 60%ish after a full clear and the prospect of getting face to face with the enemy didn't really excite me).
I think main problem I had is that I got used to wriggles junglers (noc/olaf) and thus didn't feel comfortable without knowing that I won't take any noticeable damage at all after taking any camp. With mundo and his ridiculously low AA damage and the fact that he actually drains his health to clear it's a completely different experience.
what runes and item start? The lowest you should fall under is like 30 percent when doing red cause you didnt chug pots in the beginning.
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On March 27 2012 10:01 xJacky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 08:59 greggy wrote:
I've tried mundo tonight a bit in solo queue and tbf I failed really hard. People here say you never get low after your first clear but I didn't really find it to be the case. This leaves a tossup between saving r for a speedboost/dive when ganking or using it asap while jungling. Also because it's solo queue I didn't really feel safe to counterjungle at any point (probably due to lack of experience, but also because I'd be at like 60%ish after a full clear and the prospect of getting face to face with the enemy didn't really excite me).
I think main problem I had is that I got used to wriggles junglers (noc/olaf) and thus didn't feel comfortable without knowing that I won't take any noticeable damage at all after taking any camp. With mundo and his ridiculously low AA damage and the fact that he actually drains his health to clear it's a completely different experience. what runes and item start? The lowest you should fall under is like 30 percent when doing red cause you didnt chug pots in the beginning.
I've tried all of boots3, cloth5 and vamp but ended up sticking with cloth5. Running 7/21/0 with arp/as reds, armor yellow and flat mr blue, arp quints (for total of 12arp). I'm only level 28 but I doubt it makes much of a difference. My main problem is not being able to decide what to do after wolves blue wraiths - if I do red, I drop pretty low and struggle to do gols and then have to back (or do wraith wolves again) because I'm too low to gank effectively. Or do I take red and gank at 3 with all of my spells and then take whichever small camps I can?
Also, how do you use your ult? Do you use it on cd when clearing or do you save it as free ghost when ganking?
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On March 28 2012 06:12 greggy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 10:01 xJacky wrote:On March 27 2012 08:59 greggy wrote:
I've tried mundo tonight a bit in solo queue and tbf I failed really hard. People here say you never get low after your first clear but I didn't really find it to be the case. This leaves a tossup between saving r for a speedboost/dive when ganking or using it asap while jungling. Also because it's solo queue I didn't really feel safe to counterjungle at any point (probably due to lack of experience, but also because I'd be at like 60%ish after a full clear and the prospect of getting face to face with the enemy didn't really excite me).
I think main problem I had is that I got used to wriggles junglers (noc/olaf) and thus didn't feel comfortable without knowing that I won't take any noticeable damage at all after taking any camp. With mundo and his ridiculously low AA damage and the fact that he actually drains his health to clear it's a completely different experience. what runes and item start? The lowest you should fall under is like 30 percent when doing red cause you didnt chug pots in the beginning. I've tried all of boots3, cloth5 and vamp but ended up sticking with cloth5. Running 7/21/0 with arp/as reds, armor yellow and flat mr blue, arp quints (for total of 12arp). I'm only level 28 but I doubt it makes much of a difference. My main problem is not being able to decide what to do after wolves blue wraiths - if I do red, I drop pretty low and struggle to do gols and then have to back (or do wraith wolves again) because I'm too low to gank effectively. Or do I take red and gank at 3 with all of my spells and then take whichever small camps I can? Also, how do you use your ult? Do you use it on cd when clearing or do you save it as free ghost when ganking?
cloth 5 is probably the best opening since you really need the sustain from the potions if you're going to be maxing W, which you should. it also means you can be more fluid in your jungling path since you have a larger effective HP pool to work with. if you did wolves before blue then you should go wolves->blue->wraiths->wolves (you may have to wait a few seconds)->red->wraiths->gols. You use your ult for sustain in jungle and to help you tank better in teamfights. With enough cdr, you can actually blow your ult as soon as the fight starts since if it's drawn out enough, you may sometimes be able to get a second ulti off as the fight ends which may let your team secure objectives, defend, and/or chase better.
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On March 28 2012 06:12 greggy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 10:01 xJacky wrote:On March 27 2012 08:59 greggy wrote:
I've tried mundo tonight a bit in solo queue and tbf I failed really hard. People here say you never get low after your first clear but I didn't really find it to be the case. This leaves a tossup between saving r for a speedboost/dive when ganking or using it asap while jungling. Also because it's solo queue I didn't really feel safe to counterjungle at any point (probably due to lack of experience, but also because I'd be at like 60%ish after a full clear and the prospect of getting face to face with the enemy didn't really excite me).
I think main problem I had is that I got used to wriggles junglers (noc/olaf) and thus didn't feel comfortable without knowing that I won't take any noticeable damage at all after taking any camp. With mundo and his ridiculously low AA damage and the fact that he actually drains his health to clear it's a completely different experience. what runes and item start? The lowest you should fall under is like 30 percent when doing red cause you didnt chug pots in the beginning. I've tried all of boots3, cloth5 and vamp but ended up sticking with cloth5. Running 7/21/0 with arp/as reds, armor yellow and flat mr blue, arp quints (for total of 12arp). I'm only level 28 but I doubt it makes much of a difference. My main problem is not being able to decide what to do after wolves blue wraiths - if I do red, I drop pretty low and struggle to do gols and then have to back (or do wraith wolves again) because I'm too low to gank effectively. Or do I take red and gank at 3 with all of my spells and then take whichever small camps I can? Also, how do you use your ult? Do you use it on cd when clearing or do you save it as free ghost when ganking?
Try to chug pots from the beginning. And always do red after wraiths. You waste time waiting for smite. With 5 pots you can clear jungle easily.
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Played some more mundo today, and I have to say I'm beginning to rather like it. Won most of my games and really shat on opposing shacos and such :D
The two weak spots I noticed are between 4 and 6 because you have to rely on pots to keep you up instead of ult and the point between tabi/hog and recurve bow/wits before your get some actual damage output. Once I got past those I haven't had a problem at all. Breezing through camps in opposing jungle is quite fun.
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EPT
