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I don't know if this has been mentioned or not because I stopped reading backwards after the Mundo Garen solotop arguement.
I prefer to take a point in the w at level 4. The reasoning behind this is at level 5 you're getting a solid 800 burst from auto attack- then q silence - spin. Toss in ignite and you're problebly going to be able to get a kill on a squishy. At level 6 you're aa - q - ignite - spin - ult is definately going to kill squishies. They burn flash you burn flash too. Need to dive to finish the kill? Its K cause you got that w.
I also use the W so I can walk up and Q the tower from level 4-8. If they can't hard cc you under the tower you may be able to bait the enemy into attacking you instead of cleaning the minions. With shield up you're eating less damage. They get less cs and you get to hit on tower, or you just get hits on the tower.
The time to build stacks on w is early/ early mid when garen is at his best. If you wait until 8, 10, or 13 its going to be much harder to build up the stacks on it, and with the recent buff to allow more than 5 stacks you only need one point to make use of the passive. Just my two cents.
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ok I have a question, the tooltip for garens Spin says that it scales off critical strike chance as well, but I was wondering if anyone knew exactly how/how much it scaled. In game, I only ever notice it scaling for attack damage and havent seen any numbers to suggest otherwise.
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Judgment deals damage each half-second, and the bonus damage can crit (spin has 1.2 AD ratio).
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On August 23 2011 01:49 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Judgment deals damage each half-second, and the bonus damage can crit (spin has 1.2 AD ratio).
ooooooooohh
thanks
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After reading for over half a year now I finally couldn't resist registering here at TL, so I gotta say "Hello everybody!".
I've been playing Garen only after he was so freaking OP (yes, the one with sunfire stacking) in the very past.
Since November last year I followed his nerf / buff progress in patchnotes with great interest as soon as I realized that there was still hope for him to be playable. Imo, right now he is not only playable but even viable (funnily enough, Tree Eskimo is streaming right now playing Garen).
Most things are more or less common sense, but still I am torn apart when it comes down to some decisions.
Runes:
MS Quints (sometimes miss the RAW power of +10 ArPen tho)
ArPen reds
Armor yellows (running flat, but might try out scaling ones)
MR blues (per lvl for sure)
Masteries:
I used to go 21 offense always but Movespeed Quints stack so nicely with 15/0/15 movement speed masteries and the +EXP mastery is so good for that surprise instagib FB at early lvl 2 (push lane a bit, get lvl 2 and just flash -> q -> ignite + spin for FB works almost always).
Item build:
D-Blade stacking for early game madness, no question. But how to follow up? Tbh, I don't really like Brutalizer. Its stats are nice, no question, but I feel like you should not follow up with only +25 AD after you already stacked D-Blades. Imo, Garen needs some more power to tighten his favourable position from early game.
So I have gone two routes after D-Blade:
1. Warmog -> Atmas:
with a spin into 5 enemies during teamfights you rack up kills (or at least assists) for your Warmog's pretty easy. Then, when you finish Atma's, your AD jumps up from 120ish (base damage + Dorans) to 180+. In a usual Garen game, you are unkillable at that point of time. Big disadvantage: there is a time gap where a faster chunk of AD would ensure your killing streak. If the enemy is smart, he might pull off a comeback during the time you need to get your Atmogs.
2. B. F. Sword item -> Atmogs
Regarding the missing AD of route one: with BT or (if super fed) IE you keep melting ppl in one spin but will die from time to time. Lately, I have been prefering this route and was delaying Atmogs god mode for more power.
However, in the end my full build looks like that:
Merc Boots
Infinity Edge
Warmogs
Atmas
Last Whisper
FoN / GA
This way, I'm still a threat late game so ppl can't ignore me.
Nothing more to add. Have a nice day.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2011 19:34 little fancy wrote:
I used to go 21 offense always but Movespeed Quints stack so nicely with 15/0/15 movement speed masteries and the +EXP mastery is so good for that surprise instagib FB at early lvl 2 (push lane a bit, get lvl 2 and just flash -> q -> ignite + spin for FB works almost always).
Nimbleness procs absolutely dwarf any movespeed you get from the movespeed masteries, and Q being an autoattack means you'll pick up minion aggro when you go in anyway. Ditching nimbleness for 15 util not worth it, IMO.
On a related note, what are peoples' opinions on swifties vs. dodge boots? It feels like if you have all the other sources of dodge (runes + dodge masteries), you can reasonably get dodge procs in lane off minion aggro, and in teamfights off random autoattacks, which is significantly more of a movespeed boost than the difference between boots2 and boots3. Obviously not reliable, but given the armor, the dodge, and the fact that dodge boots cost 150 gold less than swifties, it feels like unless you're against a team where the armor/dodge do nothing (in which case, it's very likely you'll want mercs), dodge boots give you more bang for your buck.
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I updated the item build significantly. I've really fallen out of favor with brutalizer as it (and ghost blade) just suck late game. Garen is retarded tanky because of W buffs now so he can rush a BF item ezpz and still be tanky.
edit: god my guide is so ugly too. I need to add pictures and make it pretty.
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I just go Dblade -> boots + 2nd dblade -> bruta for laning -> BT -> GA -> moar BT+LW
His AD ratios are ridic and on garen you're so damn tanky with nothing but mercs and GA i dont see the point of getting more defensive shit. With mercs+GA and my runes (armor yellow+scaling mres blue) I have 173 armor and 165 mres with 2.3k hp. Turn on W and you're invincible for 4 seconds. Atmogs could work, but I prefer that earlier BT to really capitalize on Garen's early-mid game burst. And after 25+ minutes, building warmogs generally isn't a good idea as it takes too long for it to charge up fully.
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I am of the belief that if you want to build hp on garen it should be mallet not warmogs
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United States37500 Posts
I still go Boots, Blade, Blade, Brutalizer, Phage, Mallet, Atma, FoN. Negatron whenever needed.
Haven't tried BF builds yet but that Phage and Brutalizer is just too gud of a combo when you're solo top. Both items give AD. CDR, ArPen, slow proc. Just seems like more overall utility than a BF sword. :X
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^ I almost always use that build too. Ofc Blade and boots are interchangeable depending on your lane opponent. If you don't immediately need the mallet proc it's good to leave it as phage and belt and build something else.
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't CDR be pretty good on Garen? Since he has no mana/energy/fury to manage, wouldn't it be nice to just be able to spam abilities?
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On September 01 2011 14:02 Requizen wrote:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't CDR be pretty good on Garen? Since he has no mana/energy/fury to manage, wouldn't it be nice to just be able to spam abilities?
you are 100% correct with that
hence why brutalizer is so great on him
a lot of people go ionian's on him too but that's preference
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On September 01 2011 14:02 Requizen wrote:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't CDR be pretty good on Garen? Since he has no mana/energy/fury to manage, wouldn't it be nice to just be able to spam abilities?
it's good but you don't have the item slots for it. you want to take advantage of his ridic AD scaling and his natural tankyness so that's why you build the dblades+brut and mallet+atmas. I really really like BF sword builds 'cause it's too funny to see your spin do 500+ dmg a second, but the mallet+atmas stuff is probably safer.
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On September 01 2011 14:06 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 14:02 Requizen wrote:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't CDR be pretty good on Garen? Since he has no mana/energy/fury to manage, wouldn't it be nice to just be able to spam abilities? it's good but you don't have the item slots for it. you want to take advantage of his ridic AD scaling and his natural tankyness so that's why you build the dblades+brut and mallet+atmas. I really really like BF sword builds 'cause it's too funny to see your spin do 500+ dmg a second, but the mallet+atmas stuff is probably safer.
Safe is for sissies, let's kill things.
DEMACIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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21/9/0 is mandatory on garen with arpen/arpen/dodge/flat mr
There's 0 argument on this.
Build-wise it's nice to have some set paths but basically you build to fit the game, never cookie-cutter on garen because there's so much difference in his roles in different comps.
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On August 29 2011 20:04 TheYango wrote:
On a related note, what are peoples' opinions on swifties vs. dodge boots? It feels like if you have all the other sources of dodge (runes + dodge masteries), you can reasonably get dodge procs in lane off minion aggro, and in teamfights off random autoattacks, which is significantly more of a movespeed boost than the difference between boots2 and boots3. Obviously not reliable, but given the armor, the dodge, and the fact that dodge boots cost 150 gold less than swifties, it feels like unless you're against a team where the armor/dodge do nothing (in which case, it's very likely you'll want mercs), dodge boots give you more bang for your buck.
Dodge boots are really underused IMO. I get dodge boots on Jax/Singed (two obvious choices since I take dodge masteries with both of them, and they both benefit hugely from increased dodge chance), but I've even started trying them on WW/Udyr when I get the chance to play those guys in top lane against other physical bruisers. Random nimbleness procs are fun on WW when you're chasing someone down with Blood Scent and get a huge random speedboost from dodging a creep attack, and also on Udyr when you're in bear stance and again dodge said creep attack.
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Is it me or is garen the best pubstomper in the game atm?
I am taking a break from ranked till the season ends so i am trying out diffrent champs and garen seem to roflstomp normal games without a sweat. I have yet to fail a lane with garen and I was: solo, solo top, 1v2 top, duo lane without support/with support, mid - evrey single time i crushed the lane.
He level 2 power is unmathced in game and if you are laneing vs melees they are fucked and if you manage to land q on ranged squishy he is dead on level 2 with ignite.
Its even easier to get fed on him then on annie mid
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I just tried out Garen for the first time
Recap:
SHING DEMACIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Enemy has been slain
Double Kill
HUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Triple Kill
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For the record, Garen/Mundo plays out as Mundo trying to safely last hit with cleaver until 6, while Garen gets freefarm but can't actually aggress Mundo without eating too many cleavers.
Mundo is scarier late game imo though.
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EPT
