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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
Garen on my team rushed tier 3 boots, then warmogs and sunfire. Ugh. I am thinking of picking up another tanky dps, but I am not really sure on which I could get. Garen seems like a good choice, but why should I pick him over the likes of Jarvan or Trundle? | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On August 17 2011 05:58 57 Corvette wrote: Sighh. Garen on my team rushed tier 3 boots, then warmogs and sunfire. Ugh. I am thinking of picking up another tanky dps, but I am not really sure on which I could get. Garen seems like a good choice, but why should I pick him over the likes of Jarvan or Trundle? Because if a Garen meets either of those he will shit over them so hard it will put them off from ever going solo top again. Garen hard counters all the popular solo tops atm. Playing Garen is like playing a magical settup that crushes support + carry bot. If you have something like that it means that any serious game is yours for the taking. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 17 2011 05:58 57 Corvette wrote: Sighh. Garen on my team rushed tier 3 boots, then warmogs and sunfire. Ugh. I am thinking of picking up another tanky dps, but I am not really sure on which I could get. Garen seems like a good choice, but why should I pick him over the likes of Jarvan or Trundle? Because Jarvan and Trundle are mediocre solo tops that are also jungle-capable (and arguably better in the jungle), while Garen is the master of crushing either bottom or top lane? If you want a jungle tanky DPS, then don't get Garen and consider Jarvan or Trundle. If you're not interested in jungling, Garen is probably one of the best to take in either sidelane atm. | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
But I can beat any garen solo top as mundo. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 17 2011 06:33 robertdinh wrote: Garen is pretty faceroll, when I played him it was easier than playing any other champion in the game. But I can beat any garen solo top as mundo. Garen has insane level 2/3 burst, and Mundo doesn't really gain the ability to fight a lot of lanes till 6 off his ulti sustain. Unless Garen walks into like every cleaver, he should have solid control of the lane until then, after which he should just be able to ride the advantage he built up in the first 5 levels. | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
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R04R
United States1631 Posts
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On August 17 2011 07:04 R04R wrote: I'm pretty sure a good flash->q->e->ignite at level 3 or 5 will either 70-0 mundo or force him out of lane and make him b. Even if mundo only has to B, that's still a lane advantage for the Garen. I'm pretty sure a good mundo can keep the lane pushed right outside his tower the whole time, and can punish garen each time he tries to push the lane through to the tower to reset it. I am also pretty sure a good mundo is well aware of the faceroll combos garen has and knows how to stay protected from that. I'm also pretty sure only a low elo garen would go for that combo on a good mundo and completely open himself up to a gank if he blows his flash. Basically if you force mundo to go buy before you after fail ganking him near his tower and burning your flash, you open yourself up to jungle ganks and you give him the chance to get another item and pots. If you choose to back later on when you feel your wave is pushed well that point will never come vs a good mundo. Cause pretty much if mundo has bought and garen hasn't, and garen has blown flash and ignite on a fail gank, mundo can basically bully the lane, keep it right outside of his tower range, and sit in the bushes never letting garen get any exp or gold. It's a matchup where garen will win if both players are equally skilled, until you get to higher skilled players. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 17 2011 07:41 robertdinh wrote: I'm pretty sure a good mundo can keep the lane pushed right outside his tower the whole time, and can punish garen each time he tries to push the lane through to the tower to reset it. I am also pretty sure a good mundo is well aware of the faceroll combos garen has and knows how to stay protected from that. I'm also pretty sure only a low elo garen would go for that combo on a good mundo and completely open himself up to a gank if he blows his flash. No, that's the Mundo player being a better player overall. There's nothing to suggest that Mundo has superior creep control inherent in his kit than Garen (you can of course try to argue that, but you haven't done so), so you can't really expect the argument "I freeze the lane in front of my tower" to work, when Garen can do the exact same thing and zone you from there. | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On August 17 2011 07:44 TheYango wrote: No, that's the Mundo player being a better player overall. There's nothing to suggest that Mundo has superior creep control inherent in his kit than Garen, so you can't really expect the argument "I freeze the lane in front of my tower" to work, when Garen can do the exact same thing and zone you from there. Garen can't though, mundo has cleave and bushes to work with. Garen HAS to use his abilities to out cs mundo, each time he does he opens himself up to mundo burst for a few seconds. A good mundo simply last hits, same with a good garen, the problem being garen can not last hit vs mundo without using abilities, cause if he just tries to auto attack ill zone him outta the lane anyway, or he will only be equal in cs, in which case i'll destroy him after 11 even moreso than already. Mundo controls a lane vs garen much better than the garen can, if he wants he can just avoid last hitting altogether til the lane pushes right outside his tower. Sit in the bush and garen either gets bullied far back or wastes abilities to get in and get out to last hit, in which case mundo will take huge chunks of his life. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 17 2011 07:46 robertdinh wrote: Garen can't though, mundo has cleave and bushes to work with. Garen HAS to use his abilities to out cs mundo, each time he does he opens himself up to mundo burst for a few seconds. A good mundo simply last hits, same with a good garen, the problem being garen can not last hit vs mundo without using abilities, cause if he just tries to auto attack ill zone him outta the lane anyway, or he will only be equal in cs, in which case i'll destroy him after 11 even moreso than already. Explain how you punish him for autoattacking creeps? You can't cleaver him because he's standing inside a hodgepodge of melee creeps. And if you walk up to use any other ability, you obviously eat a full combo, which is a losing trade for Mundo unless you have ultimate to heal back up. | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On August 17 2011 07:48 TheYango wrote: Explain how you punish him for autoattacking creeps? You can't cleaver him because he's standing inside a hodgepodge of melee creeps. And if you walk up to use any other ability, you obviously eat a full combo, which is a losing trade for Mundo unless you have ultimate to heal back up. You do realize his combo basically pushes the lane hard, is easy to avoid, and easy to bait out of him right? I am talking 2 highly skilled players, mundo wins everytime. Garen can't exactly sit pushed up in a lane before the first buy, and even after that it's still not safe. Because of the bushes and having a ranged skill shot mundo can zone him out of the lane, it's going to happen at high skill, the way it happens just depends on which way garen wants to let it happen. Basically anytime garen silences or attempts to spin, you just kite him and after it's done you take 30percent of his health. He can't do anything about it before level 6, and after level 6 you can stay in lane way longer than him. I think you are selling mundo short because he is so underplayed in 5s now and 99.9% of the people that do play him don't build him right. User was warned for this post | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On August 17 2011 07:46 robertdinh wrote: Garen can't though, mundo has cleave and bushes to work with. Garen HAS to use his abilities to out cs mundo, each time he does he opens himself up to mundo burst for a few seconds. A good mundo simply last hits, same with a good garen, the problem being garen can not last hit vs mundo without using abilities, cause if he just tries to auto attack ill zone him outta the lane anyway, or he will only be equal in cs, in which case i'll destroy him after 11 even moreso than already. Mundo controls a lane vs garen much better than the garen can, if he wants he can just avoid last hitting altogether til the lane pushes right outside his tower. Sit in the bush and garen either gets bullied far back or wastes abilities to get in and get out to last hit, in which case mundo will take huge chunks of his life. Since a part of me feels like Yango fell for complete trollbait here... Would you care to share at which ranked elo your way of playing Mundo consistently beats Garen players solo top? Also, please explain to me (since I'm a scrub at Garen) which of his ranged abilities Garen has to use to out-cs Mundo. Last time I checked, walking up to a creep, hitting it and loling at a random Cleaver that prolly hits one of your own minions is not called "using abilities to not get outfarmed"... Edit 'cause I got ninja'd: I am talking 2 highly skilled players, mundo wins everytime. Garen can't exactly sit pushed up in a lane before the first buy, and even after that it's still not safe. Because of the bushes and having a ranged skill shot mundo can zone him out of the lane, it's going to happen at high skill, the way it happens just depends on which way garen wants to let it happen. Also please share with us at which ranked ELO you frequently see two "highly skilled players" solo top with Mundo vs Garen. I'd love to hear that part. | ||
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GARO
United States2255 Posts
I mean, he has secrets none of us can even comprehend about playing a champ who spams Qs + presses E then right clicks! First trolling the dota2 thread, now LoL with his superb 'experience' | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On August 17 2011 07:57 r.Evo wrote: Since a part of me feels like Yango fell for complete trollbait here... Would you care to share at which ranked elo your way of playing Mundo consistently beats Garen players solo top? Also, please explain to me (since I'm a scrub at Garen) which of his ranged abilities Garen has to use to out-cs Mundo. Last time I checked, walking up to a creep, hitting it and loling at a random Cleaver that prolly hits one of your own minions is not called "using abilities to not get outfarmed"... My way of playing mundo will beat any garen at any rank in top lane. Unfortunately the game is 5v5 and garen and mundo aren't generally efficient picks composition wise for the team. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
likewise his combo is nearly unavoidable if you go for a melee lasthit because of the speed on q for garen as for lane control that comes down to individual players' skills but its also very difficult to perfectly consistently freeze a lane at any given point or place in the lane unless you tank some amounts of minion aggro which is deadly earlygame i will test out garen vs mundo with you | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On August 17 2011 07:58 GARO wrote: Don't worry, this guy doesn't lose bot lane with mundo+teemo and he has more experience with the doctor than all of us. I mean, he has secrets none of us can even comprehend about playing a champ who hits q+e then right clicks! First trolling the dota2 thread, now LoL with his superb 'experience' Name a comp that can't get zoned in bot lane by teemo mundo, or at the very least can't get outfarmed. On August 17 2011 08:00 Navi wrote: unless you get like 2 crits with sadism every time garen goes for a q there's no way a mundo could out-dps garen likewise his combo is nearly unavoidable if you go for a melee lasthit because of the speed on q for garen as for lane control that comes down to individual players' skills but its also very difficult to perfectly consistently freeze a lane at any given point or place in the lane unless you tank some amounts of minion aggro which is deadly earlygame i will test out garen vs mundo with you I think you mean masochism, and yes, crit masochisms hurt  | ||
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GARO
United States2255 Posts
On August 17 2011 08:00 robertdinh wrote: Name a comp that can't get zoned in bot lane by teemo mundo, or at the very least can't get outfarmed. Panth/Garen+Taric? Sion+2nd stun? Any comp that can play more aggressively? Not like Mundo oozes power when he's not by himself. Thanks for the free FB teemo. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On August 17 2011 07:59 robertdinh wrote: My way of playing mundo will beat any garen at any rank in top lane. Unfortunately the game is 5v5 and garen and mundo aren't generally efficient picks composition wise for the team. -You don't want to share your summoner name and server. -You don't want to share your ELO. You claim that you found a way of playing Mundo solo top vs Garen that you will beat ANY player at ANY rank. Please post credentials or troll somewhere else. | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On August 17 2011 08:00 GARO wrote: Panth+Taric? hurr durr Thanks for the free FB teemo. I'm sorry this isn't low elo, people don't just walk into stuns. P.S. Mundo in front and if they tried to dive teemo they would both be dead  . P.P.S. Panth and taric will get outfarmed so hard by mundo and teemo. P.P.P.S. If only blind didn't absolutely crap all over panth. | ||
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