[Champion] Rumble - Page 5

On July 14 2012 02:58 gtrsrs wrote:
yo - MR stacking is not viable against champions with no mana costs
if it costs nothing for them to do damage to you, you don't win by spending something to negate their damage, you know?

On July 14 2012 02:58 gtrsrs wrote:
yo - MR stacking is not viable against champions with no mana costs
if it costs nothing for them to do damage to you, you don't win by spending something to negate their damage, you know?

like, you don't stck MR against vlad and expect to win - cause then he just farms and chips away at you. likewise with rumble, you don't win by stacking MR because it costs no time and no resources to harass you. all you do by stacking defenses against rumble is delay the inevitable

On July 13 2012 08:36 Sufficiency wrote:


Pretty sure that's non-smartcast

On July 14 2012 10:23 gtrsrs wrote:
stacking MR against champions that have mana means that for every point of mana they have, they will do less damage. by buying MR you limit the max damage they can do before depleting their mana bar. likewise, stacking armor against physical damage champs that use mana does the same.

this does not hold true for champions that have no mana costs. yes, they will do less damage per exchange. but if you are using mana and they are not, eventually they will wear you out. additionally, most champions that don't have mana build some sort of free sustain item (i.e. revolver, which is core on rumble, vlad, kennen). so they are getting health back for free regardless of how much damage is done, and since you're building defensive items, you're not doing enough damage to matter anyway. they will eventually wear you down and beat you. what you want to do instead is build items that at least have an offensive component that synergizes with your champ (in the case of irelia, wit's end; it's more of an offensive than a defensive item).

for the record, irelia is a bit of a special case because loltruedamageandsustain, so my statement was meant to be more of a blanket for mana-champs against non-mana champs rather than irelia v rumble.

as for "why does armor stacking work against garen" - it doesn't. the minute garen forces you to buy armor on a champion that doesn't have an armor item as his core item (basically, everyone that garen doesn't insta-lose to anyway like malphite), he's already done his job. he's delayed their offensive items so they won't be a threat while he will be. that's the point of lane dominators like garen. the minute they dictate your build, they've won. don't let rumble and garen dictate your build. garen will still win trades with you even if you have armor, and then he'll go destroy your carry in fights. likewise, rumble will still outsustain and outdamage you if you build MR and he builds damage, and then he'll ult your whole team and destroy your back line while his carries ignore you because no damage.


for a better understanding of what i'm talking about, take a matchup where both champions deal only 1 type of damage, but one of them is mana based, and the other isn't (i.e. riven versus wukong). have both champions build defensively and tell me which wins the lane. the non-mana champ will win every time through attrition

On July 14 2012 09:09 wraR.Raven wrote:


Don't you have to click after you press r without smartcast?

On July 14 2012 10:23 gtrsrs wrote:
stacking MR against champions that have mana means that for every point of mana they have, they will do less damage. by buying MR you limit the max damage they can do before depleting their mana bar. likewise, stacking armor against physical damage champs that use mana does the same.

this does not hold true for champions that have no mana costs. yes, they will do less damage per exchange. but if you are using mana and they are not, eventually they will wear you out. additionally, most champions that don't have mana build some sort of free sustain item (i.e. revolver, which is core on rumble, vlad, kennen). so they are getting health back for free regardless of how much damage is done, and since you're building defensive items, you're not doing enough damage to matter anyway. they will eventually wear you down and beat you. what you want to do instead is build items that at least have an offensive component that synergizes with your champ (in the case of irelia, wit's end; it's more of an offensive than a defensive item).

for the record, irelia is a bit of a special case because loltruedamageandsustain, so my statement was meant to be more of a blanket for mana-champs against non-mana champs rather than irelia v rumble.

as for "why does armor stacking work against garen" - it doesn't. the minute garen forces you to buy armor on a champion that doesn't have an armor item as his core item (basically, everyone that garen doesn't insta-lose to anyway like malphite), he's already done his job. he's delayed their offensive items so they won't be a threat while he will be. that's the point of lane dominators like garen. the minute they dictate your build, they've won. don't let rumble and garen dictate your build. garen will still win trades with you even if you have armor, and then he'll go destroy your carry in fights. likewise, rumble will still outsustain and outdamage you if you build MR and he builds damage, and then he'll ult your whole team and destroy your back line while his carries ignore you because no damage.


for a better understanding of what i'm talking about, take a matchup where both champions deal only 1 type of damage, but one of them is mana based, and the other isn't (i.e. riven versus wukong). have both champions build defensively and tell me which wins the lane. the non-mana champ will win every time through attrition

On July 14 2012 12:25 Feartheguru wrote:


What is this... I don't even....

It's all about trade efficiency. If before in a trade you take 300 they take 200 they'll push you out of lane. Now you take 150 they take 200 they can't trade you win the lane. In what world do people run out all their mana on each other and see who has health left?

On July 14 2012 10:54 Sufficiency wrote:


I don't think this is true at all.

In a hypothetical scenario, in a trade Rumble does 300 damage to you, and you do 300 damage to him. But if you have MR, he will do 200 damage to you instead, making you win the exchange.

On July 14 2012 12:47 gtrsrs wrote:


is this a hypothetical situation where you bought an item and rumble didn't? because i only see his damage going down in this situation. so did you back and buy and he did not? cause if so, yes, you will beat rumble in trades if you have more items.

let's take a more realistic, full view of the situation. rumble does 300 damage to you, you do 300 damage to him. you back and buy MR, he backs and buys spell vamp. now he does 200 damage to you, and you do 300 to him. but he also heals 100 and has a shield that absorbs 100. so in the end you're both now dealing 200 to each other still but you're really only doing 100 to him. but your cooldowns are 6s each, and his are 3s each. so either he's doing twice as much damage to you or he's using his alternating cooldowns to heal off creeps. so trades are more like 100-200 than 300-200. you see? you need to look at a full picture. it's just like in general discussion yesterday when people were like EVE'S BASE HP IS 12 HIGHER THAN SHEN, SHE IS VIABLE OBV. you can't just take one facet of a matchup, change it/compare it and call it even.

you aren't going to beat a manaless champion in an attrition-battle. it's just how they work, they wear you down. you've got a much higher chance of success just building damage and trying to beat them in one go.

On July 14 2012 13:20 De4ngus wrote:
man u guys talk to much i gave the answer already.

On July 14 2012 14:49 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Pretty sure guitar is talking about the general interaction between a mana based vs a non-mana champion. He also specifically said that the non-mana champ wins if he forces you to build defense that isnt core in your build.

In the case of irelia 1) Wits IS core on her
2) It both gives her defence as well as offence and sustain cuz of her W.

Even in this case I guess if the rumble can harass irelia enough to make her blow most of her mana to sustain herself he can force her to back off or die he's done his job. Atleast until she hits her godmode.
In any case, even if the lane is equal I don't think I would mind as rumble scales really well and his teamfighting is awesome.

On July 14 2012 15:49 Amui wrote:


Rumble gets destroyed by irelia. blahblahtheorycraftblahblah.

On July 14 2012 16:33 De4ngus wrote:

lets 1v1.

On July 14 2012 15:49 Amui wrote:


Rumble gets destroyed by irelia. Boots+3 along with good runes/masteries will let you survive until you have enough money for double null magic most of the time. From there you can basically do whatever in lane, and then once you hit somewhere around 9 you start being able to right click rumble to tower. Once irelia gets to wits+phage, it's lights out for rumble unless irelia got really, really far behind. That's how I find the matchup goes anyways, because both rumble and irelia have similar types of power curves, except that irelia can build to survive the lane AND kill rumble at the same time.

As for generalization, Mana based generally has more burst than a CD champ.(garen, riven excepted). As such it's better to go heavier on the damage side to outtrade them more significantly. An extreme case is vs vlad. You need to be able to burst him for over half his health at a time, or else later on the multiple 10-15%'s that vlad hits you with start to add up while he heals up the insignificant amounts of damage he took.