Caitlyn is the sexy sheriff of Piltover whose range can only be rivaled by late game Tristana and Ezreal. I like to pick her because its relatively safe to be aggressive with her due to the traps you can place and slowing people down whilst getting knocked back. Combined with her range its quite hard to get a hold of her without popping a flash. And I haven't even mentioned her amazing voice!
Most of this guide will be written from the European meta game in mind so bear with you silly Americans. (I will talk a lot about dual laning with a support, not so much about soloing)
Activation: Every 6/7/8 attacks Damage: 150% to champions 250% to minions
This kind of cool gimmick Caitlyn possesses can be quite helpful when fighting bottom lane, its insanely easy to cs from the bushes and therefor easier to get your head shots off. If you're a lucky guy then you'll get a crit off on your headshot and ruin your oppositions life. This happens all the time in lategame ofcourse. (With IE this gives you a whopping 300% damage shots)
Now let us talk about how headshot makes no sense at all. How can you get a headshot every 8/7/6 attacks? It makes no sense at all! Does it mean Caitlyn isn't even trying and just pops a proper shot every so often? I doubt it. Anyways lets get on with the rest of her skills.
Now this move is one of my favourites. During the laning phase this move deals insane damage and is quite hard to dodge. It takes 1 second to charge this move up and deals less damage as it passes through targets (15% per target down to a minimum of 40%) If your terrible with this skill just wait till they walk into your traps to make it easier for you.
Yordle snap trap
Manacost: 50 Cooldown: 20/17/14/11/8 Magical damage: 80/130/180/230/280 (+0.6 per ability power) Cast range 800 Activation range: 150
This trap is so fun! Together with Taric or Janna's help it is easy to use it to get kills early. Not to mention, it stops those annoying supports like Sona from harassing you if you place them in the bushes! Its an amazing tool, really. You can even use it to check bushes so you won't have to face check them. Talk about a multiple purpose tool.
Also if your wondering what Yordle's are, no one is exactly sure but I can tell you that Corki, Tristana, Poppy, Veigar, Heimerdinger, Amumu are Yordle's. Some say they're small furries but then why isn't Kennen one of them? It makes no sense I tell you.
This is purely a escape mechanism, or you can chase people by jumping over obstacles (small ones) Using this to jump through stuff like Karthus his slow will still slow you down, unlike Akali who can just troll through everything with her jump.
Standard long range ultimate, can be intercepted by the enemy (including copies/clones etc.), nothing special to see here, move along.
Summoner spells
Flash: Must need, I feel no need to explain why because its obvious, not to mention that this is still the strongest summoner spell in existence.
Teleport: This is what I always get as my second spell. Mostly due to personal preference but I feel that you get a major advantage when you don't have to walk a minute to your lane to continue farming when you return to base due to unforeseen or foreseen circumstances. Also being able to join a fight soon around mid game whilst you farm on the other side of the map is a pretty useful capability.
Exhaust: A strong spell for bottom lane, you should get this if you don't like teleport. It turns the tide when tristana/corki jumps on you.
Ghost: You can definitely get ghost, i just don't think its such a useful skill to have, you won't be doing much chasing anyway.
Runes & Masteries
I just get standard AD runes and masteries.
21/0/9 taking all the obvious stuff. I prefer greed over mana regeneration and buff duration in the utility tree but that's your own choice. As for runes I get:
Marks 9 armor penetration red's
Seals 9 dodge runes or 9 manaregen runes or 9 flat armor runes
Glyphs 9 flat or lvl Magic resistance
Quintessences 3 armor penetration or 3 flat damage
The reasoning behind flat damage quints is to increase the window of time you have to lasthit a creep so you have more time to harass, position etc. For lasthitting the 9 armor penetration reds are enough to give the creeps "0" armor, making armor penetration quints only slightly better against heroes then the flat damage, which are better for cs.
Item build
I always start with a Doran's blade, I saw someone mention boots 3 pots in the general thread. This is very doable if you have Soraka or Janna in your lane for damage/heals, but Doran's makes it easier to last hit creeps which is quite important for an AD carry.
When I go back to base the first time I like to grab 3 Doran's blades in total and then Beserker's greaves. Beserker's has priority if your low on money.
When you get those items your next goal should be Infinity's Edge because it stacks nicely with your Headshot and its just the core item Caitlyn's damage is based on.
After you finish Infinity's edge you're going to want to go for phantom dancer or just zeal when you feel you need to make banshees first. After Phantom Dancer most people run Bloodthirster for damage, I don't, I grab The Black Cleaver, because you really can't ignore tanks like some carries can, and this helps you melt them faster.
As for your 6Th item (By now you have Beserker's, Infinity's Edge, Phantom dancer, Black cleaver and banshees.) This is mostly your own choice, but I say, get damage.
Play style
Most of the time I pick trap as my first spell because the level 1 Q damage is not big enough to justify not picking a disable for level 1 fights and bush checking purposes.
As the game start just go to your lane after you walk around blue a bit protecting your poor little jungler. (you could even help him out a bit as long as you don't miss more then 1 creep.) You'll spend most of your time (trying to harass) harassing your opponent, depending on what support player he has for assistance your gonna want to target him or his support player. Be sure to keep 1 trap in the jungler-come-from-there bush and use the other 2 to further your harass or just destroy/kill your opponent. If the opposing support player is being annoying from the bush just pop a trap there and kill him.
As you wander into the middle of the game you'll have probably destroyed your tower a while ago, this is something that just happens when your Caitlyn. Just try to find as much farm as possible, farming the jungle you should do while standing in bushes, obviously. Caitlyn can easily solo red etc. without effort when you stand in the bush and have 3 Doran's blade's for regeneration. If the other tower's are not yet down go to those lanes take the towers, money for your team is good, be sure to keep your teleport for getting to your team quickly when necessary, don't use it to farm anymore. When you get IE you'll notice that squishy's die so fast its funny.
Around late game your only purpose in this game is auto attacking, not dying and catching stranglers with your ultimate.
Best type of allies in the lane
Pretty much anything that can stun can help you hit your traps and net you some kills. (not netting with the 90 cal net of course this was meant in the figurative sense)
Obviously some heroes are better at this then others. I'd like to point out that Janna and Taric both posses amazing abilities to help you stay in the lane, deal damage and give you a amazing advantage.
Who/what you want to avoid
Caitlyn's biggest weakness is when someone jumps on her, its really hard for her to get out of melee range, this is why its crucial that you stay at a good distance from people who can jump on you during team fights. Heroes like Tryndamere and Akali are very hard to stop for our cute little sheriff, they're rare picks in higher rated games though so not that big of a problem, but they still exist to make your life harder.
Caitlyn doesn't have much strange builds or weird masteries/runes but shes fun to play as an AD hero but she has all kinds of cool gimmicks you will learn to use in all kinds of ways when you get better with her. Getting farmed feels very satisfying and wins you games quite easily, and its not that hard to get farmed with her range and skillset.
Just one last thing you guys should keep in your mind when you play her: Steal kills with your ultimate. Your a carry so just do it.
On September 12 2011 10:33 locodoco wrote: zz u guys suck so ima teach u how to cait
21/9/0 standard offense tree + sos
armor pen reds flat armor yellows mana regen blues flat ad quints
ur core is d-sword,serker,bf sword
depending on the teamcomp and how good ur early game farm was u can choose to get ie or thirster
if they have lots of bruisers and unignorable threats like noc or jax or something get thrister if u can buy thirster in 14 min get thirster if not buy ie
get wriggles if ur supporter sucks get wriggles if ur losing ur lane get wriggles if u kill thier tower super early if u buy wriggles than ur getting ie no questions asked
b4 10 min,every time ur forced to base and u dont have enuff gold for a big item buy a doran sword if u have more than 1 dorans,do not buy a wriggle dont ever buy more than 3 dorans
ur end game dps items should be ie + dancer + thirster but ur opponents are probably pussys and they bought armor u need to understand that carrys end up hitting tanks most of the time,thier carry wont ever buy fucking armor their tanks will and u need to itemize to damage their tanks not their carrys so if their tanks buy armor u need to stop making dancer or thrister after ie and work on your lw zeal is awesome though,u should buy a zeal after ur ie or thirster
if ur dead u do 0 dps its not that hard to understand sometimes the enemy team has unavoidable cc like amumu or ww with flash or ashe arrow or something gay u need to buy qss to counter that shit seriously,its not that hard to understand U NEED TO BUY QSS VS UNAVOIDABLE CC AND U NEED TO GET IT QUICK
so lets go over this again u start the game with doran sword and u buy wriggle OR 1~2 more doran swords than u buy a serkers(level 2 boots are retardly costeffective) u buy a big fucking sword asap after ur dorans or wriggles than u decided on what ur first big damage item is going to be ie or thrister after that u buy zeal than u ask urself if u need to buy qss or lw in the near future if so u need to start farming for that shit now after that u finish ur dancer than work on ie or thrister w/e u didnt get game should end by now
itemizing ad carrys should be fucking easy but ppl are retarded and buy dumb stuff
in lane u have the most range out of anybody but kog using W have ur support ward their foward brush and poke the living shit out of ppl U HAVE THE LONGEST RANGE IN THE GAME MAKE USE OF IT u want to push ur lane as cait ward thier sidebrush or dragon so u dont get jungler ganks and dont be fucking retard crazy even if u dont see the jungler from the ward poke the enemy at thier tower or push down tower
in teamfights its very simple u hit w/e is closest from max range just do that and u'll be playing ad carrys right 90%of the time if u see a cc'd enemy carry that u can focus than obviously u focus that fucker even if there's a tank close to u if some1 like noc or jax dives u exhaust and put a trap bit behind u and run the fuck away but u dont just run u fucking kite always be moving and shooting people ur not a real sniper u can move the fuck around while u shoot lol is hax like that
ps. u can read this guide a billion times but u'll still suck at cait if u dont play her pss guides are only useful for items and theorycraft u need to play the game psss watching streams is probably the best way to learn pssss ima start streaming within 3 days and u can request cait and ill help psssss im da best and kiruur should marry me already
Edit: Added rune choices, took away flat AD again shortly after due to spines theorycrafting on page 2.
Ehh.. there is nothing fun in ksing with caitl ult.. learn to ks with amumu's despair [w] there you have skill :-P Or take last hit on tower while 5 ppl are smashing it as soraka.
You can also use the ultimate as harass in lane on the opposing ranged AD if their support cannot heal them very well, Alistar/Janna or maybe Lux/Blitz (?).
I disagree with your blues and yellows. IMO blues should be either flat or scaling mr, since you are only good to your team if you can survive the burst ap that is sure to come at you. And dodge yellows are fairly useless for a ad carry since you never actually want to be in range of someone attacking you more than one time. IMO Yellows should be armor, which will prevent more of the damage from that one hit, HP/lvl to make you a bit buffer and help the mr blues, or MP5/lvl to help spam spells and harass.
Why dodge seals if you aren't even running defense mastery? Even then they aren't very good. Better off with more damage/aspeed or mp5 or armour. AD quints are awesome too.
I disagree with tele esp if you are bot lane, you are going to be supported in lane or just farming bot lane so you are never going to make good use of it, plus exhaust gives you a much stronger laning phase.
I said Teleport was a personal preference, I also mentioned exhaust? As for the seals and glyphs, they barely impact the game so its not that interesting, I think. And I believe that armor penetration is the way to go so you can destroy those wee little support players that only have 17 armor.
On July 21 2011 00:00 mercurial wrote: I said Teleport was a personal preference, I also mentioned exhaust? As for the seals and glyphs, they barely impact the game so its not that interesting, I think. And I believe that armor penetration is the way to go so you can destroy those wee little support players that only have 17 armor.
13 armor early game will negate tons of dmg from enemy carries then dodge where you don't go nimbleness. Armor mitigates tons of armor pen. Glyphs like mr will help in survivability a tons. Please don't say they are not interesting and go useless runes.
Unspoiler everything except Skills/Abilities. Those should be "common knowledge". The rest people coming to this thread want to read about.
I see a lot of NA players (hai T_D, numbers) up in arms about merc's Seals and Glyphs. I'll admit that they're very unorthodox and it's not something we've seen at a tourney level but let's not get too aggressive about it. If someone from NA wants to write NA's style of Cait, with different runes or even possibly running solo, write up a snippet and PM it to merc. He'll add it to the OP.
Lastly, a major improvement that needs to be made is that you should talk about certain matchup aspects involving the EU's Ranged DPS Bot lane. How should Cait lane against a Corki vs a Trist. Enemy support as Taric means you should play more passively and always Trap the brush. Enemy Soraka, maybe you can try to burst her down at level 3 with lvl 2 Q + Passive + Support help. Stuff like that.
On July 21 2011 00:19 NeoIllusions wrote: Hi mercurial,
Unspoiler everything except Skills/Abilities. Those should be "common knowledge". The rest people coming to this thread want to read about.
I see a lot of NA players (hai T_D, numbers) up in arms about merc's Seals and Glyphs. I'll admit that they're very unorthodox and it's not something we've seen at a tourney level but let's not get too aggressive about it. If someone from NA wants to write NA's style of Cait, with different runes or even possibly running solo, write up a snippet and PM it to merc. He'll add it to the OP.
Lastly, a major improvement that needs to be made is that you should talk about certain matchup aspects involving the EU's Ranged DPS Bot lane. How should Cait lane against a Corki vs a Trist. Enemy support as Taric means you should play more passively and always Trap the brush. Enemy Soraka, maybe you can try to burst her down at level 3 with lvl 2 Q + Passive + Support help. Stuff like that.
I shall do so tomorrow, at work! :3 Now its time to play the game.
After Phantom Dancer most people run Bloodthirster for damage, I don't, I grab The Black Cleaver, because you really can't ignore tanks like some carries can, and this helps you melt them faster.
I just want to note again that against high-armor targets, Last Whisper is more cost effective in terms of your total damage output than Black Cleaver.
Not saying Cleaver is a bad item, but if you're aiming to kill tanks, LW is better.
ya, i prefer black cleaver on someone like xin; his Q basically full procs the cleaver and knocks up his opponent (most likely a squishy) and lets his team collapse in on a weakened carry. for auto-attack champs like cait, if enemy team has more than one guy with 100+ armor, LW is a solid choice
After Phantom Dancer most people run Bloodthirster for damage, I don't, I grab The Black Cleaver, because you really can't ignore tanks like some carries can, and this helps you melt them faster.
I just want to note again that against high-armor targets, Last Whisper is more cost effective in terms of your total damage output than Black Cleaver.
Not saying Cleaver is a bad item, but if you're aiming to kill tanks, LW is better.
Depending on your definition of a tank, but on europe a lot of tanks are either junglers with low farm or tanky dps with some dps items, and there is often 2 AP solos, so mostly the junglers will just build a sunfire for armour and no other armour items until randuins late game and the tanky dps will have trinity force or something with maybe a wriggles or an atmas for armour, focusing on a lot of magic resist or health. So with 31 armour from runes/masteries the 45 on black cleaver and attack speed can often be worth it over last whisper. Most people get last whisper only vs more than 1 highly stacked armour (150 or more) target.
On July 03 2011 07:49 Asdkmoga wrote: i've always thought Cass was strong, just gotta build health very early so you can do the damage, and when you do, damn is it a shit ton of fucking damage with dem twin fangs
Edit: also, if anyne knows about Cait Jungle can you talk about it some? i've seen it done in a agame when we didnt have one, and she apparently cleared jungle and ganked bot enough time to clearly win that lane and i dont know how she did it
I have done Cait jungle before actually, u might have been in my game >.> You have to abuse her passive, headshot, for extra dps in the jungle. She doesn't really carry as hard without farm so you end up being more of a support for your team with extra dps and map control with your traps. You can set traps in the bushs near their buffs so you can see when the other jungler is there, or set traps along common travel routes for any champs so someone will probably hit it. Summoner Spells: smite and flash/ghost/teleport
Masteries: 21/0/9, make sure u get all the atk damage related masteries in offense and improved smite. Utility is for the exp and buff duration masteries.
Runes: Atk speed red, armor yellow, attackspeed blue, 2 armor pen quints, 1 atkspeed quint. I think you could do with more armor pen but I'm not sure exactly. this seems to work for me.
Items:start cloth armor+5pots core: wriggles+beserker greaves then get whatever u want, usually normal AD carry items like Infinity Edge, Phantom Dancer, Last Whisper but u might want to skip Bloodthirster because you already have Wriggles (replace wriggles later if you don't know what else to build) Maybe get Bloodrazor for fast baron... depends on the game.
Route: blue-wolves-wraiths-double golems, b, red, gank. I havent done it in a while so u might be able to do red and then doubles without going b, but its safer to heal if u need to. If you start at blue you can kite the wolves a little toward the bush by blue to get your passive to proc sooner when you do blue. -edit- actually if you want to start at blue you might have to take health quints and full armor pen reds instead because blue will mess u up without a good leash.
Better Route: double golems-wraiths-wolves gank and then improvise from there, usually do that round again until you get madreds or wriggles, then u can get the buffs faster.
Make sure you shoot when your sitting in the bush for your passive and spam your skills for more dps. You can kinda kite the wolves into the bush and kill them one by one but it might be faster just sit there and shoot em. It's hard to use the bush by the wraith camp but it can be done.
Skill order is Q-E-Q-W or Q-E-W if you do the alternate route ( you need all 3 skills to gank at all) After that it's R>Q>W>E
Double golems and the buff camps are the best since there is an easy to use bush for proccing your passive more.
Ganks: Ganks are frikin impossible, usually u can only gank vs super overextended lanes, and mid is the hardest to gank. Laying traps beforehand is usually a good idea just in case the enemies try to flee into the river or something. Your lane has to be aggressive and fight so both sides are a bit low, and then you have to provide surprise dps to win the fight (that can be done with any jungler though). When you reveal yourself you can try to lead with Q for that extra burst so they aren't at a safe HP anymore, or try for a W but it's not easy to land. You can also just autoatk them if you have red buff or if they are already low. The nice thing is that you don't have as much of a gap to close as melee junglers so you can just go pew pew without having to get too far out of position if it's not safe, and you can just do free damage to pressure the lane, maybe force a b. You can also start by setting a trap along a possible route that they will walk or flash to when they retreat to their tower and then your teammate can engage and force them into it. It's a good tactic especially in the sidelane bushes. If you can get positioned between the enemy and their tower you can cut off their escape with your traps and net without shooting yourself off too far to the side but its a bit risky to use your net for the slow. You really need your teammates to follow up because otherwise the enemies can just turn on you and kill you. Her ult is really good for ganks because it forces the enemy to retreat even earlier than normal, almost always forcing a flash, and even then u can sometimes still target them and finish them off. You can try ward-teleport ganks too if that's what it takes.
Cait can control the map pretty well with her traps so dont forget to put one or two in key spots before you gank so you have a retreat route too in case you fail. Make sure you cover lanes whenever there's an opportunity because Cait is actually good in lane and you can get more exp and farm that way.
Another tip is that you can actually lure dragon out far enough so that Cait can shoot it from the little bush in the river but you'll probably have to tank it if you want to do that cuz no one else knows that and so they won't pull it far enough.
Jungle Caitlyn is pretty fun because you get to feel like a sniper who sneakily hunts people down. ^^;
this was months ago. edit: guerrilla caitlyn is required
This guide is wrong in almost every way possible (chauster and chaox have detailed guides out)...
Quints: Physical Damage - These are BiS, simply nothing in this game will give you a bigger overall DPS/CS killing ability boost in the early game than pure dmg quints. The extra 7.5 dmg is VERY noticeable. Try these quints and then report back to me that you had 10+ more CS than usual and you got your snowball items faster...
Reds: Armor Pen - BiS as well, not gonna explain
Yellow: Mana regen per 5 per level, as cait is going to take 21/0/9 and has quite high mana costs/spamability on her shit, so make sure you get these
Blues: Flat magic resist. Per levels dont catch up til lvl 10 and you already getting banshees later as part of your build so the early MR is going to help TONS against pokes and such. Any AP caster is going to try and blow his/her load on you and being prepared is going to be important.
Masteries: 21/0/9 cookie cutter, except the OP said to get greed for some reason over mana regen...neither are superior to the +time to neutral buffs, as you will be getting red ALOT cause of cait's lack of CC. Red is amazing on cait, and don't forget to snag it at all times
Level up W at level 1 then max R > Q > W > E (W>E because of the steep CD on W)
Throw traps in tight areas and corridors, you will be surprised how many melee love running over them.
Build: Start with boots + 3 pots or Dorans blade depending on enemy poke/zone potential. (IE- orianna is boots, where as you want blade vs anivia). Build 2x dorans blades and/or BF sword as early as possible (remember to still get your greaves or merc treads early, cait is really strong if you can get a speed advantage early game cause of her kiting). Rush Bloodthirster and then build a zeal. At this point you can either finish phantom dancer or start building banshees veil. Any time in between finish your PD (the speed/crit/as is awesome for cait).. Rest of the items are situational, but mostly I find myself with BT, PD, IE, LW, Boots, and BV at the end of the game.
Dont spam Q vs minions and push your lane or you will open up for ganks. Use her ult to wittle people down if you know you cant get a kill/gank soon enough to warrant not using it for the poke. Sometimes a level 6 ashe will have 1/3 of their hp taken by just the ult alone so definitely don't overestimate the Q/Ult combo as a poke/zone tool.
In lane use traps to zone. I make a triangle shape with them as to maximize the area. The new stealth buff to her trap radius is helping tons too, you can wall off like crazy now with just traps.
Physical attack quints are better than armor pen early game because you won't really be auto attacking the enemy champions as much as you will be attacking minions. Also, alot of champions start with less than 18 armor (ashe has 13 at lvl 1), so the full 25 arp is just a complete waste. Arp reds and physdmg quints are the way to go for cait. HP is meh.
Totally Agree with you for reds, duh. Totally disagree with you for yellow. Range AD carries pretty much either armor or atkspeed or mana regen/level mix them up if you want. Your choice in blues really really questionable. Stick to MR/ per level. Quints is up to the person, I usually run Atkdamage x3 , can go for more armpen or even hp quint
I always start with a Doran's blade, I saw someone mention boots 3 pots in the general thread. This is very doable if you have Soraka or Janna in your lane for damage/heals, but Doran's makes it easier to last hit creeps which is quite important for an AD carry.
It's good to start with doran's blade, but you meant to go doran's IF you have a healer as a partner on bot lane, but if you don't have a support partner go boots and 3 pots. Being able to sustain in lane longer = Win as AD carry. All the other items are great great choice for caitlyn with the Inf edge + phantom dancer, Zerkers. I would tho at the point of completing 1st phantom dancer, you need to make a choice, can you survive or are you constantly getting cc'd and so on. If so , go build a Quicksilver sash, most underrated item and/or Banshee's Veil. If you are not getting cc'd and targeted due to the fact you are a nerd baller at positioning yourself, go for another phantom dancer then bloodthirster would be nice, should be gg by then.
You'll spend most of your time (trying to harass) harassing your opponent, depending on what support player he has for assistance your gonna want to target him or his support player.
Being a Carry you must train yourself to farm and farm and farm. I would spend more time placing traps in a triangle shape infront of you, and start last hitting everything like a mad man then waste my time trying to harass your opponent at the cost of losing last hits . Getting a kill or forcing him to return to base is nice, but nothing is nicer knowing when you press TAB, and it's telling you, YOUR CS is owning them. If you do wanna be a bit more aggressive sure, go ahead, it's all situational. But if you do choose to harass try to save your passive proc's for the enemy champion, or Q when they get snared in your trap. Priority = Farming = Win!
All in all, Great guide for everyone wanting to play Cait. Most important thing about range carry is being able to position yourself properly in a team fight, something that sounds easy, but takes alot of practice to master. Most of the time any person can just over extend by just a smudge and boom, your team just lost their Main sustain DPS. Great insight from this guide, especially that it's from European Meta game. Thanks.
On September 01 2011 17:07 Surrealz wrote: This guide is wrong in almost every way possible (chauster and chaox have detailed guides out)...
Quints: Physical Damage - These are BiS, simply nothing in this game will give you a bigger overall DPS/CS killing ability boost in the early game than pure dmg quints. The extra 7.5 dmg is VERY noticeable. Try these quints and then report back to me that you had 10+ more CS than usual and you got your snowball items faster...
So you're lack of being able to lasthit properly is your reasoning behind getting the AD quints? You should mention that the Q and R gain damage from it and not from the Armor penetration runes which is why they're superior on Cait. If you're having trouble taking CS with cait's 60 dmg and armor penetration runes. If you're having problems taking cs you should probably play anivia or something for a while.
I do agree that its a very valid option, but its not set in stone.
Reds: Armor Pen - BiS as well, not gonna explain
Yellow: Mana regen per 5 per level, as cait is going to take 21/0/9 and has quite high mana costs/spamability on her shit, so make sure you get these
True, she uses alot of mana, these are 1 of my 2 choices for Caitlyn, I don't spam Q that often though and never really have mana issues. I'll add them to the guide.
Blues: Flat magic resist. Per levels dont catch up til lvl 10 and you already getting banshees later as part of your build so the early MR is going to help TONS against pokes and such. Any AP caster is going to try and blow his/her load on you and being prepared is going to be important.
Agreed.
Masteries: 21/0/9 cookie cutter, except the OP said to get greed for some reason over mana regen...neither are superior to the +time to neutral buffs, as you will be getting red ALOT cause of cait's lack of CC. Red is amazing on cait, and don't forget to snag it at all times
Depends on your jungler, taking udyr/gangplank's red buff is out of the question, she's not THAT awsome with red's
Level up W at level 1 then max R > Q > W > E (W>E because of the steep CD on W)
Yop
Throw traps in tight areas and corridors, you will be surprised how many melee love running over them.
Uhu
Build: Start with boots + 3 pots or Dorans blade depending on enemy poke/zone potential. (IE- orianna is boots, where as you want blade vs anivia). Build 2x dorans blades and/or BF sword as early as possible (remember to still get your greaves or merc treads early, cait is really strong if you can get a speed advantage early game cause of her kiting). Rush Bloodthirster and then build a zeal. At this point you can either finish phantom dancer or start building banshees veil. Any time in between finish your PD (the speed/crit/as is awesome for cait).. Rest of the items are situational, but mostly I find myself with BT, PD, IE, LW, Boots, and BV at the end of the game.
Dont spam Q vs minions and push your lane or you will open up for ganks. Use her ult to wittle people down if you know you cant get a kill/gank soon enough to warrant not using it for the poke. Sometimes a level 6 ashe will have 1/3 of their hp taken by just the ult alone so definitely don't overestimate the Q/Ult combo as a poke/zone tool.
In lane use traps to zone. I make a triangle shape with them as to maximize the area. The new stealth buff to her trap radius is helping tons too, you can wall off like crazy now with just traps. Stealth buff?
Wrote it in the quote because it was easier to write like this
On September 01 2011 20:47 mercurial wrote: So you're lack of being able to lasthit properly is your reasoning behind getting the AD quints? You should mention that the Q and R gain damage from it and not from the Armor penetration runes
Are you saying that Cait's Q and R don't scale with APen? Cuz they do, ya know? Probably way better than with AD too because of the high base damage on those skills, but I haven't checked that.
On September 01 2011 17:10 Surrealz wrote: Physical attack quints are better than armor pen early game because you won't really be auto attacking the enemy champions as much as you will be attacking minions. Also, alot of champions start with less than 18 armor (ashe has 13 at lvl 1), so the full 25 arp is just a complete waste. Arp reds and physdmg quints are the way to go for cait. HP is meh.
If someone has negative armor you deal more then 100% dmg to him.
On September 01 2011 17:10 Surrealz wrote: Physical attack quints are better than armor pen early game because you won't really be auto attacking the enemy champions as much as you will be attacking minions. Also, alot of champions start with less than 18 armor (ashe has 13 at lvl 1), so the full 25 arp is just a complete waste. Arp reds and physdmg quints are the way to go for cait. HP is meh.
If someone has negative armor you deal more then 100% dmg to him.
Try it on golems or something sometime.
REALLY? Dude I would have expected more solid knowledge about game mechanics from you lawl. APen can't bring anyone down to negative armor. Only flat REDUCTION can. APen is capped at 0 Armor.
The reason many people get flat AD quintsis because they deal slightly more damage during the first few levels when they would otherwise have more APen than the enemy has Armor.
That's what most people claim to do it for, anyways. In reality the better lasthitting probably has a MUCH bigger impact. The bigger your timing window for lasthitting is (a function of your AD), the harder it is for the enemy to punish or deny any lasthits.
To be honest I definitely feel the extra punching power on enemy heroes, ESPECIALLY when you're Cait with her procced shot. I understand the last hit window being easier (it certainly made things easier for me, dohoho!) being a major factor, but at top levels of play, where I think it's safe to assume that most people could last hit with just DBlade + ARP anyways, it's that extra hitting power that really makes the difference.
I don't run anything but flat AD on my carries and I don't think you should either. I think of it as a pretty significant buff in damage early traded off for a pretty insignificant debuff later. Lane dominance is a huge thing in the duo lanes and hitting just that much harder often gives you the edge you need.
On September 01 2011 17:10 Surrealz wrote: Physical attack quints are better than armor pen early game because you won't really be auto attacking the enemy champions as much as you will be attacking minions. Also, alot of champions start with less than 18 armor (ashe has 13 at lvl 1), so the full 25 arp is just a complete waste. Arp reds and physdmg quints are the way to go for cait. HP is meh.
If someone has negative armor you deal more then 100% dmg to him.
Try it on golems or something sometime.
REALLY? Dude I would have expected more solid knowledge about game mechanics from you lawl. APen can't bring anyone down to negative armor. Only flat REDUCTION can. APen is capped at 0 Armor.
The reason many people get flat AD quintsis because they deal slightly more damage during the first few levels when they would otherwise have more APen than the enemy has Armor.
That's what most people claim to do it for, anyways. In reality the better lasthitting probably has a MUCH bigger impact. The bigger your timing window for lasthitting is (a function of your AD), the harder it is for the enemy to punish or deny any lasthits.
Dude I figured out a couple of days ago that baron gives 300 gold. My mind was blown.
Thought he was like dragon but with a buff.
My knowledge is crap. Imagine how little theorycrafting helps in the game ^^
On September 01 2011 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I don't run anything but flat AD on my carries and I don't think you should either. I think of it as a pretty significant buff in damage early traded off for a pretty insignificant debuff later. Lane dominance is a huge thing in the duo lanes and hitting just that much harder often gives you the edge you need.
No armor pen at all? Hmmm I was trying that for a bit but I couldn't decide which I liked more.
+15 or so damage vs what like... 18-24 armor pen? Hard to say which is better o.o;
Perhaps just get an earlier-than-usual last whisper to make up for it?
You don't feel the lack of armor pen against squishies and the very little arp doesn't help against tanks, I think.
Though to be honest a guy whose account I've slowly been boosting has a full damage page as well but I don't really notice which is more efficient (full damage vs standard ad + arp).
Lets just say that there is barely a difference and that skill makes up for more then the 2/3 damage you might gain or lose by doing or not doing what has been said above.
On September 01 2011 22:07 Southlight wrote: To be honest I definitely feel the extra punching power on enemy heroes, ESPECIALLY when you're Cait with her procced shot. I understand the last hit window being easier (it certainly made things easier for me, dohoho!) being a major factor, but at top levels of play, where I think it's safe to assume that most people could last hit with just DBlade + ARP anyways, it's that extra hitting power that really makes the difference.
IMO anyways.
At top levels of play, people are also better at punishing any lasthitting attempts.
On September 01 2011 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I don't run anything but flat AD on my carries and I don't think you should either. I think of it as a pretty significant buff in damage early traded off for a pretty insignificant debuff later. Lane dominance is a huge thing in the duo lanes and hitting just that much harder often gives you the edge you need.
My calculations show that flat AD marks are only slightly better at lvl 1 (less than 1% difference), and after that until the target gets like 100 armor APen marks are better. And that is only for targets that start with less than 21 armor (15 APen from marks, 6 from masteries).
So I don't see where you get that idea of a significant buff from...
On September 01 2011 23:14 mercurial wrote: Snap. Arpen is better. (I don't like "apen" because it means monkeys in my language.) Changing my guide back :3
Apen is definitively better on reds. It's still a tossup on quints, because the cost-effectiveness of apen on quints is noticeably better on quints than on reds.
-Personally I love running AD yellows on stuff like Cait, MF or Vayne if I can assume that we'll have the stronger lane at bot. Adds more punch and you strengthen your ability to punish them early game. A Cait/MF that's not ahead early will fall behind eventually.
-Flat MRes blues on AD carries is complete and utter crap. =P
The ONLY reason to run flat Mres (period) is that you expect to get shat on bettween level 1-8ish by... MAGIC DAMAGE. Unless you're against Taric/Brand this will never be the case. I GUESS against like Taric/Tristana it would somewhat make sense again, but it's not like that combo is huge trouble for cait.
----> Scaling MRes >>>> Flat Mres for AD carries. 100% the same reasoning as for junglers.
Edit: That is IF you want to run Mres. Imho the only viable options for blue are Scaling Mres / AS / Mp5 per level. CDR makes no sense at all since you don't have the manapool to abuse it.
I don't like 21/0/9 that much anymore. You're basicly using 8 points in utility which you don't benefit much from (maybe good hands since it's a game changer but that's about it). The only reason i see in going 9 in utility is to get that 15% extra duration on red buff, but meh i don't feel that much need for it. Currently im experimenting with 24/6/0 to get some extra fancy stuff in the offensive tree and the 6 points in defense is quite obvious.
AD quints, arpen marks, mp5/lvl seals, AS glyphs. Flash/exhaust
At the moment it actually works really good. I don't feel like im losing much for not getting awareness since your focus is towards late game where you're needed to push.
A lot of EU AD players, CandyPandah included, tend to ignore the utility tree altogether. I see a lot more 21 9 0 or even 24 6 0. If you play like Candy where you forever bot lane, even after the first outer tower is gone, then those Awareness masteries don't really matter as much.
Flat MR on ranged AD is great, what are you talking about? Soraka, Taric, Sona, Janna, Alistar all deal plenty of magic damage. MF, Corki, Kog, Trist deal magic damage. When the enemy AP mid comes to gank bot you're not going to be lvl 10 yet. You probably won't be lvl 10 for the first Dragon fight either.
If you're in a duo lane, you level up really slowly so that alone is a good reason to choose flat MR.
On September 01 2011 23:33 NeoIllusions wrote: A lot of EU AD players, CandyPandah included, tend to ignore the utility tree altogether. I see a lot more 21 9 0 or even 24 6 0. If you play like Candy where you forever bot lane, even after the first outer tower is gone, then those Awareness masteries don't really matter as much.
I've been running 21/9/0 for ages now. There's no way I'd skip SoS for puny things like 3% ASpd though.
On September 01 2011 23:51 Haemonculus wrote: I always thought the reason to take 9 in utility was for the exp mastery?
In some matchups your opponent hitting 6 before you can be a major problem.
Doesn't really matter for bot lane. 99% of the time someone will leave the lane for a while before lvl 6 and that means that your exp advantage is either gone or useless. lvl 2 for certain (rare) lanes (both sides have strong lvl 2) would be the only thing I would consider the exp mastery for.
On September 01 2011 17:07 Surrealz wrote: This guide is wrong in almost every way possible (chauster and chaox have detailed guides out)...
Quints: Physical Damage - These are BiS, simply nothing in this game will give you a bigger overall DPS/CS killing ability boost in the early game than pure dmg quints. The extra 7.5 dmg is VERY noticeable. Try these quints and then report back to me that you had 10+ more CS than usual and you got your snowball items faster...
So you're lack of being able to lasthit properly is your reasoning behind getting the AD quints? You should mention that the Q and R gain damage from it and not from the Armor penetration runes which is why they're superior on Cait. If you're having trouble taking CS with cait's 60 dmg and armor penetration runes. If you're having problems taking cs you should probably play anivia or something for a while.
I do agree that its a very valid option, but its not set in stone.
Reds: Armor Pen - BiS as well, not gonna explain
Yellow: Mana regen per 5 per level, as cait is going to take 21/0/9 and has quite high mana costs/spamability on her shit, so make sure you get these
True, she uses alot of mana, these are 1 of my 2 choices for Caitlyn, I don't spam Q that often though and never really have mana issues. I'll add them to the guide.
Blues: Flat magic resist. Per levels dont catch up til lvl 10 and you already getting banshees later as part of your build so the early MR is going to help TONS against pokes and such. Any AP caster is going to try and blow his/her load on you and being prepared is going to be important.
Agreed.
Masteries: 21/0/9 cookie cutter, except the OP said to get greed for some reason over mana regen...neither are superior to the +time to neutral buffs, as you will be getting red ALOT cause of cait's lack of CC. Red is amazing on cait, and don't forget to snag it at all times
Depends on your jungler, taking udyr/gangplank's red buff is out of the question, she's not THAT awsome with red's
Level up W at level 1 then max R > Q > W > E (W>E because of the steep CD on W)
Yop
Throw traps in tight areas and corridors, you will be surprised how many melee love running over them.
Uhu
Build: Start with boots + 3 pots or Dorans blade depending on enemy poke/zone potential. (IE- orianna is boots, where as you want blade vs anivia). Build 2x dorans blades and/or BF sword as early as possible (remember to still get your greaves or merc treads early, cait is really strong if you can get a speed advantage early game cause of her kiting). Rush Bloodthirster and then build a zeal. At this point you can either finish phantom dancer or start building banshees veil. Any time in between finish your PD (the speed/crit/as is awesome for cait).. Rest of the items are situational, but mostly I find myself with BT, PD, IE, LW, Boots, and BV at the end of the game.
Dont spam Q vs minions and push your lane or you will open up for ganks. Use her ult to wittle people down if you know you cant get a kill/gank soon enough to warrant not using it for the poke. Sometimes a level 6 ashe will have 1/3 of their hp taken by just the ult alone so definitely don't overestimate the Q/Ult combo as a poke/zone tool.
In lane use traps to zone. I make a triangle shape with them as to maximize the area. The new stealth buff to her trap radius is helping tons too, you can wall off like crazy now with just traps. Stealth buff?
Wrote it in the quote because it was easier to write like this
I'll add all the stuff to the OP in a bit.
Wrote it in the quote because you are a pretentious forum poster; Anyways unless you are getting 100% of the CS in your lane the AD quints will continue to be the BiS for cait, as Chaox, Chauster, and Westrice have all said. Yes, you can still get a good CS score without the quints, but if you really want to min max your champ correctly then AD runes are going to be your bread and butter on AD ranged carries (ESPECIALLY cause of the support/ad bot meta)
On September 02 2011 09:04 Surrealz wrote:Wrote it in the quote because you are a pretentious forum poster; Anyways unless you are getting 100% of the CS in your lane the AD quints will continue to be the BiS for cait, as Chaox, Chauster, and Westrice have all said. Yes, you can still get a good CS score without the quints, but if you really want to min max your champ correctly then AD runes are going to be your bread and butter on AD ranged carries (ESPECIALLY cause of the support/ad bot meta)
I think you name drop too much. ArPen runes/quints are perfectly fine based on the math that posters here have done.
On September 02 2011 09:04 Surrealz wrote:Wrote it in the quote because you are a pretentious forum poster; Anyways unless you are getting 100% of the CS in your lane the AD quints will continue to be the BiS for cait, as Chaox, Chauster, and Westrice have all said. Yes, you can still get a good CS score without the quints, but if you really want to min max your champ correctly then AD runes are going to be your bread and butter on AD ranged carries (ESPECIALLY cause of the support/ad bot meta)
I think you name drop too much. ArPen runes/quints are perfectly fine based on the math that posters here have done.
The "math" that they did failed to include that players start with different amounts of armor, last whisper calculation, and the FACT that the damage quints aren't for damage against enemies, its for the extra dmg vs creeps, who will be your main enemy in the early game.
Stop saying things that aren't true, you are giving people shit builds on this forum and they are running around with them and playing sub-optimally because they don't understand ArP scaling vs AD scaling
Yeah full ad on ranged ad does wonders for your early game damage potential, especially because nearly all of your skills will scale off it, and the window for cs is almost doubled with proper runes. having 70 damage vs 49 is massive and gives you a full ranged creep attack's duration to work with.
You really need AS as the game progresses, though. I usually build her Blade > Boots > BFSword > T2 Boots > Zeal > IE > PD > Last Whisper > Another PD if it goes that long. I know it's probably not optimal, but it works pretty well for me so far.
On September 02 2011 09:04 Surrealz wrote:Wrote it in the quote because you are a pretentious forum poster; Anyways unless you are getting 100% of the CS in your lane the AD quints will continue to be the BiS for cait, as Chaox, Chauster, and Westrice have all said. Yes, you can still get a good CS score without the quints, but if you really want to min max your champ correctly then AD runes are going to be your bread and butter on AD ranged carries (ESPECIALLY cause of the support/ad bot meta)
I think you name drop too much. ArPen runes/quints are perfectly fine based on the math that posters here have done.
The "math" that they did failed to include that players start with different amounts of armor, last whisper calculation, and the FACT that the damage quints aren't for damage against enemies, its for the extra dmg vs creeps, who will be your main enemy in the early game.
Stop saying things that aren't true, you are giving people shit builds on this forum and they are running around with them and playing sub-optimally because they don't understand ArP scaling vs AD scaling
If you actually think you take AD runes for extra damage vs creeps then using your logic, you must run AD marks/quints on every single champ. Cause you know, more AD to last hit easier and all. AD on casters too strong~
On September 01 2011 23:36 spinesheath wrote: Flat MR on ranged AD is great, what are you talking about? Soraka, Taric, Sona, Janna, Alistar all deal plenty of magic damage. MF, Corki, Kog, Trist deal magic damage. When the enemy AP mid comes to gank bot you're not going to be lvl 10 yet. You probably won't be lvl 10 for the first Dragon fight either.
If you're in a duo lane, you level up really slowly so that alone is a good reason to choose flat MR.
On September 01 2011 23:33 NeoIllusions wrote: A lot of EU AD players, CandyPandah included, tend to ignore the utility tree altogether. I see a lot more 21 9 0 or even 24 6 0. If you play like Candy where you forever bot lane, even after the first outer tower is gone, then those Awareness masteries don't really matter as much.
I've been running 21/9/0 for ages now. There's no way I'd skip SoS for puny things like 3% ASpd though.
same, though sometimes I do chauster's 16/0/14 for extra safe laning.
On September 02 2011 09:04 Surrealz wrote:Wrote it in the quote because you are a pretentious forum poster; Anyways unless you are getting 100% of the CS in your lane the AD quints will continue to be the BiS for cait, as Chaox, Chauster, and Westrice have all said. Yes, you can still get a good CS score without the quints, but if you really want to min max your champ correctly then AD runes are going to be your bread and butter on AD ranged carries (ESPECIALLY cause of the support/ad bot meta)
I think you name drop too much. ArPen runes/quints are perfectly fine based on the math that posters here have done.
The "math" that they did failed to include that players start with different amounts of armor, last whisper calculation, and the FACT that the damage quints aren't for damage against enemies, its for the extra dmg vs creeps, who will be your main enemy in the early game.
Stop saying things that aren't true, you are giving people shit builds on this forum and they are running around with them and playing sub-optimally because they don't understand ArP scaling vs AD scaling
If you actually think you take AD runes for extra damage vs creeps then using your logic, you must run AD marks/quints on every single champ. Cause you know, more AD to last hit easier and all. AD on casters too strong~
Stop being a Jazriel.
I don't get why people say things like you just did, which are obviously devoid of sound logic, as if it somehow refutes what he said.
On September 02 2011 09:04 Surrealz wrote:Wrote it in the quote because you are a pretentious forum poster; Anyways unless you are getting 100% of the CS in your lane the AD quints will continue to be the BiS for cait, as Chaox, Chauster, and Westrice have all said. Yes, you can still get a good CS score without the quints, but if you really want to min max your champ correctly then AD runes are going to be your bread and butter on AD ranged carries (ESPECIALLY cause of the support/ad bot meta)
I think you name drop too much. ArPen runes/quints are perfectly fine based on the math that posters here have done.
The "math" that they did failed to include that players start with different amounts of armor, last whisper calculation, and the FACT that the damage quints aren't for damage against enemies, its for the extra dmg vs creeps, who will be your main enemy in the early game.
Stop saying things that aren't true, you are giving people shit builds on this forum and they are running around with them and playing sub-optimally because they don't understand ArP scaling vs AD scaling
If you actually think you take AD runes for extra damage vs creeps then using your logic, you must run AD marks/quints on every single champ. Cause you know, more AD to last hit easier and all. AD on casters too strong~
Stop being a Jazriel.
No, because other champions (IE- AP champs) don't use their auto attack for every single creep kill. Also, the +7 dmg for say brand is only 49+7, where as for cait its 75+7 (with 21/0/9), which is far more useful to her. Cait is a straight auto attack champ, with only ashe and twitch being remotely close to her right click spam. Any attack damage early game will significantly improve your chance of last hitting a minion. Also, remember that the turret kill pattern for a ranged minion pre100 dmg is going to be Hit - Turret - Hit, which is VERY hard to time vs Turret - Hit. The extra few damage WILL increase your CS.
Yes, the stat scales linearly, but it has exponential gains. All of her abilities scale off of AD, and last whisper later will take 40% of your original 25arp in your build which will be 4arp, so you are actually cutting yourself off after buying last whisper (which is a must have item in about 90% of games as an AD carry).
AD marks are meh, as the 15 arp IS useful because most champions have around 15+ armor at the start of the game, and ARP really is an amazing stat because of the "true" damage. Remember that runes become less and less significant to your total build as the game goes on, so you are best suited to tailor your rune set for an early game advantage. (Some runes aren't the case like this, for example some Euro corki players take AP/Level glyphs {blues} which are mega inefficient early game [they don't equal the flat ones til level 9/10] because they have minimal use until you get your rockets [R], so it makes sense to maximize the timing window for your rockets/AP gains).
Dodge yellows are a joke, if you are getting hit by auto attacks you are probably already going to die from all of the damage going your way. If you have 7% dodge at level 1 you sure as hell aren't going to be building tabi, as zerker greaves/merc treads are your only boot choice. That means in order to dodge 1 attack it is expected to have been hit 14-15 times....That is horrible for you, as cait isnt about taking sustained auto attack damage (someone like singed or malphite would want this). Even with passive dodge its still a crap shoot, and the dodge just makes you feel more tanky than you actually are. I'd almost even say that armor is a better choice than dodge. Again, we want that mana regen early to be able to Q/W, tanking countless auto attacks should NOT be in your gameplan with cait.
edit: As far as what you said about red, you are almost always going to have another AD on your team, and remember that there is TWO reds on the map, not one That being said, I get red constantly on caitlyn because you can stand in the bushes and significantly increase your DPS against it due to her passive. She has very little CC, and your jungler should have phage/frozen mallet. The damage increase isn't as effective for the jungler, as they are usually just a melee body in a fight (most junglers, I ain't hatin GP [even though GP has a slow]) and won't be doing the kind of sustained, split dps that the AD ranged carry will be doing. Being kited sucks, so having a ranged AD carry that can slow is just amazing (HENCE WHY ASHE ES #1 HUEHUEHEUEHU)
I play alot of caitlyn, and I am rather certain that I have her optimal build down. I don't want my fellow TL'ers doing a suboptimal build for her, even if it is playable and winnable. Remember, every little bit counts.
Because top players who can last hit with nearly any champ well would not take AD runes "to last hit easier." They're going to take them in order to increase their damage potential earlygame vs the enmy champions. APen might not be best because not all champs have the armor value equal to the APen that you have, so often it's wasted. Thus you can instead take AD and do more overall damage to the enemy champ earlygame and use that damage advantage on the enemy champ to give you favorable trades. By doing so THEN you can get get a cs advantage.
You don't take them to cs easier, you take it to do more damage to the enemy champions so that you can then, and only then, acquire an advantage to be able to cs better in lane. That's because if you can give yourself favorable trades constantly, you can use that advantage to take control of the brushes and zone them, eventually pushing the wave to the tower once it autopushes from them not being able to last hit. Then the tower eats up a lot of their cs. You get more cs, they get less. It's not to be able to allow you to cs easier by giving you more AD to buffer your bad last hitting abilities.
Also the reason we don't take ad blues/yellows is because they are itemized really shitty by riot so that people don't make +30 AD rune pages and ruin any semblance of balance with one stat. Very few one-stat rune pages are viable, let alone optimal/efficient
On September 02 2011 14:31 alexlw92 wrote: why black cleaver over last whisper? by that point, most tanks have over 112 armor
Personal preference?
I just feel stronger with cleaver then last whisper, when people amass armor however, I'll get last whisper.
So first Surrealz drops names on us then he says he plays a fair bit of Caitlyn.
So what are your credentials? :3
The logic on near tower with ad runes being awsome is good though, but my support actually helps me when it comes to that. Cait's an amazing pusher though and can easily stop waves from coming to her tower.
It why we use her in a split push team, because she can takes waves down easily.
On September 02 2011 16:08 BlackPaladin wrote: Because top players who can last hit with nearly any champ well would not take AD runes "to last hit easier." They're going to take them in order to increase their damage potential earlygame vs the enmy champions. APen might not be best because not all champs have the armor value equal to the APen that you have, so often it's wasted. Thus you can instead take AD and do more overall damage to the enemy champ earlygame and use that damage advantage on the enemy champ to give you favorable trades. By doing so THEN you can get get a cs advantage.
You don't take them to cs easier, you take it to do more damage to the enemy champions so that you can then, and only then, acquire an advantage to be able to cs better in lane. That's because if you can give yourself favorable trades constantly, you can use that advantage to take control of the brushes and zone them, eventually pushing the wave to the tower once it autopushes from them not being able to last hit. Then the tower eats up a lot of their cs. You get more cs, they get less. It's not to be able to allow you to cs easier by giving you more AD to buffer your bad last hitting abilities.
Based on what you read I'm not really sure if we are playing at the same level in LoL. Your gameplan of trading and pushing the lane constantly during the laning phase is NOT what the top players are doing, so people please take what he wrote here with a grain of salt.
Without going into too much detail, you want the lane to sit in a favorable position towards your side/the middle without actually letting them get into turret range. The reason for this is the possibility of ganks. When you have their lane pushed yea they are up against the turret (Oh and by the way, most pro players can still hit 90% of creep that are pushing against their own turret, and while they are doing it they have VERY VERY VERY little risk of being ganked, cause they have their turret..). If you watch some pro player VODs/Streams/etc. you will notice that they try to match the other player in pushing power as to leave the lane in a favorable position for themselves. If they constantly pushed their lanes there is very little stopping the enemy udyr from coming down and punishing you as you run back to your turret all the way from theirs with your tail between your legs. Once the lane phase is maturing and you have wards and stuff then yes, that is a time to push. If you are about to go back to fountain, then yes, push.
Watch even the best of players play. You will see that sometimes they miss their CS by 1-5 damage and they will be like AWWWW SHIT on their stream. People make mistakes. AD quints can make up for those mistakes and give you that extra umph. Even 5 extra CS is 75-100 free gold, which turns into either an item or a ward, which have infinite possibilities for snowball gains because of their gameplay consequences.
If you want to attest to what I just wrote, please go to www.solomid.net or watch
On September 02 2011 16:24 Surrealz wrote:Watch even the best of players play. You will see that sometimes they miss their CS by 1-5 damage and they will be like AWWWW SHIT on their stream. People make mistakes. AD quints can make up for those mistakes and give you that extra umph. Even 5 extra CS is 75-100 free gold, which turns into either an item or a ward, which have infinite possibilities for snowball gains because of their gameplay consequences.
I think this is the first "high level" player that I know of that needs AD quint/runes to last hit. But whatever float your boat dude, may the spirit of Chauster, Chaox, or whichever high elo player you like guide you.
I play alot of caitlyn, and I am rather certain that I have her optimal build down. I don't want my fellow TL'ers doing a suboptimal build for her, even if it is playable and winnable. Remember, every little bit counts.
I don't know if you're doing it to troll or just because you want to ignore him, but your willful ignorance needs to stop.
If you can last hit minions with a great margin for error, you have more time and flexibility for harassing the enemy laner. Caitlyn is one of the strongest AD laners in the game and thrives on punishing the other lane. Thus, saving a few shots here and there on minions = more shots on the other team.
AP/Level glyphs {blues} which are mega inefficient early game [they don't equal the flat ones til level 9/10
Flat AD runes work great on a few champs early game, Caitlyn, Vayne, Akali & Pantheon come to mind particularly with the AD skill scalings. Not a lot of people run with them since its niche set up so you can help catch a first blood and start the lane rolling if they're unawares.
Also helps great with early farming, which is one of the most important thing on carries. You sacrifice survivability of course but thats why you exploit your character's range. Personally I don't run them because of the rune page limit but its hella fun.
On September 02 2011 17:06 Craton wrote: I don't know if you're doing it to troll or just because you want to ignore him, but your willful ignorance needs to stop.
If you can last hit minions with a great margin for error, you have more time and flexibility for harassing the enemy laner. Caitlyn is one of the strongest AD laners in the game and thrives on punishing the other lane. Thus, saving a few shots here and there on minions = more shots on the other team.
AP/Level glyphs {blues} which are mega inefficient early game [they don't equal the flat ones til level 9/10
AP/Level > Flat by level 6.
Yup, just checked, my bad. I must have been thinking of Mresist blues that don't scale til lvl 10. I know there are a few blues/yellows that do run along the same lines as what I mentioned in the parenthesis where they have a timing for the ult/lvl4 utility ability
Anyways,
I named dropped because I would trust the word/decision of that player regarding caitlyn runes FAR more than what you have to say. If those are 3 of the top Caits in the world would that not make you doubt your rune selection just a tad bit? Yes, their judgements aren't absolute, but top player rune selection should at least make you doubt your own seeing as they are much more successful with their build than you are.
As craton said, I'm not really sure if you folks are trolling or just really hard headed, but I would like to believe that members of TL.net should have a better attitude towards our argument, especially cause my responses weren't short one liners. I gave you detailed reasons for why AD quints are superior, and your only rebuttal is that I name drop too much. Really?
The guide was decent at best, and I was just doing my best to correct you in an empirical manner. If you don't like it, that's fine, but at least address my points rather than just replying "LMFAO". This is teamliquid, not 4chan, people here can do math and have a real discussion about game mechanics. Its one of the many reasons we all like posting here.
Surrealz's build and runes are fine. Unlike WoW PvE I don't necessarily think that there is a "best in slot" build for either items or runes, but AD quints are very good for the simple fact that they are over-statted compared to other quints.
lol I never disagreed with his runes build. It's just his posts reeks of this holier than thou attitude just because he absorbed the guides of Chauster, Chaox into his understanding of the game. Not to mention his condescending attitude towards the OP and other posters.
So in order to make up for my warning, let me just say that runes are always a matter of personal preference. A Cait player can get a full mres page and can easily last hit minions and kill players in lane. To give an example of a personal preference, I never liked AD runes because I can simply purchase the stat as the game progresses through items, and I always run with flat armor yellows on most of my AD champs negating most of the early AD advantage. I do like AD quints because it's a great IP value for its purchase. In any case, AD runes/quints still great for laning especially if you have problems last hitting.
Top players still run Perseverance over Good Hands most of the time, so taking their word on stuff like that that's not a big deal in many cases doesn't always make sense. I think arpen vs flat AD runes fall into that category (and arpen basically always comes out ahead in midgame/lategame. Smash decided to keep running arpen reds on Pantheon--who has some dumbfuck crazy AD scaling, remember--after seeing the math for some common scenarios). I haven't done the math for Cait in particular but flat AD reds probably give you a stronger level 1-3, maybe into level 4, and then tail off after that, insofar as damage against champs goes (that's what it looked like for Pantheon).
If you're interested in early game runes it's seriously not hard to run the math for arpen vs ad runes against some common armor values; either choice has its merits. I think the same goes for dodge yellows vs armor yellows, though personally if I were going to run dodge yellows I'd grab Nimbleness also since Nimbleness procs are crazy.
how did he get warned and not the surrealz guy weird...
anyways, take ad runes on champs that scale with ad (ashe, cait, vayne) rest go armor pen. urgot is a tricky case since you usually want brutalizer on him so hes a rare exception where armor pen is better on an ad scaler.
I didn't warn broz0rs but he got dinged for being a little too snarky and condescending in his recent post history. It wasn't reflective of that one single post but the culmination of a couple. You can make your point across without having your post drip with cynicism.
Back on topic, I also AD Quint on all my AD Carries except Teemo, who I build a little more tanky (HP Seals and Qunits).
I think the distinction here is that we all agree AD quints can be good on carries, but some people are reacting to Surrealz's argumentative style and his reasoning.
Getting AD to do more damage to creeps earlier is a little weird, but he could definitely have made his point without being so brusque.
On September 03 2011 05:43 dnastyx wrote: I think the distinction here is that we all agree AD quints can be good on carries, but some people are reacting to Surrealz's argumentative style and his reasoning.
Getting AD to do more damage to creeps earlier is a little weird, but he could definitely have made his point without being so brusque.
tl;dr yeah dem AD quints are pretty gdlk bro
Its not about 'doing more damage to creeps' Its about having a larger window of opportunity to kill them. Say you want to move up to ding an opponent in the face with a headshot proc and you see him moving up to cast a spell. If you wait till the creep you want to kill is in the kill range, you might not have time to move up and dink him in the face, but if you've got a larger damage range, you can safely kill the creep, move up with your new banked headshot and push him off the creeps.
This is a super simple example, but the freedom to move rather than attack, and the ability to interchange those two periods of time is very, very important.
On September 03 2011 05:43 dnastyx wrote: I think the distinction here is that we all agree AD quints can be good on carries, but some people are reacting to Surrealz's argumentative style and his reasoning.
Getting AD to do more damage to creeps earlier is a little weird, but he could definitely have made his point without being so brusque.
tl;dr yeah dem AD quints are pretty gdlk bro
Its not about 'doing more damage to creeps' Its about having a larger window of opportunity to kill them. Say you want to move up to ding an opponent in the face with a headshot proc and you see him moving up to cast a spell. If you wait till the creep you want to kill is in the kill range, you might not have time to move up and dink him in the face, but if you've got a larger damage range, you can safely kill the creep, move up with your new banked headshot and push him off the creeps.
This is a super simple example, but the freedom to move rather than attack, and the ability to interchange those two periods of time is very, very important.
Pretty much what he said is what I've been trying to get across for the whole thread.
And yea, if you stacked full magic resist pages with caitlyn you are actually hurting yourself by not maximizing your most efficient stat that has synergy with your champs abilities/passive. If you want to be the best you can be, you need to min/max as much as possible and play to the situation. Stacking magic resist against an ashe in lane is not going to do that for you, so whoever said they wanted to stack magic resist pages on caitlyn and still be "fine" is just plain wrong.
I'm pretty sure this doesn't warrant a thread of it's own, so I decided I'd ask you this here. Being Caitlyn my main champion, I'm building up her runes. I have armor pen reds, mp5/lvl seals, cdr glyphs, mp5/lvl glyphs and armor pen quints. The ArPen quints are just too much, I don't need that many, and as such I'm trying to find new runes for her. I'm currently thinking about buying AS seals and use the mp5/lvl glyphs, as well as AS quints (I'd still have 21 arpen, which is plenty enough for early game harassing). Is this retarded or just questionable?
On September 06 2011 08:28 SaYyId wrote: I'm pretty sure this doesn't warrant a thread of it's own, so I decided I'd ask you this here. Being Caitlyn my main champion, I'm building up her runes. I have armor pen reds, mp5/lvl seals, cdr glyphs, mp5/lvl glyphs and armor pen quints. The ArPen quints are just too much, I don't need that many, and as such I'm trying to find new runes for her. I'm currently thinking about buying AS seals and use the mp5/lvl glyphs, as well as AS quints (I'd still have 21 arpen, which is plenty enough for early game harassing). Is this retarded or just questionable?
EDIT: Everything tier 3, by the way.
Seriously, don't skimp on Arpen, they're worth it. And they apply to dozens of champions. The best rune investment you cant make along with Mpen.
On September 06 2011 08:38 SaYyId wrote: Well, I midlane almost all of the time, so I get matched with low armor leblanc's and annie's. They have 13 armor lvl 1, I think 21 ArPen is plenty.
Yes, it's fine at level 1. But more arpen you have means you're hitting for true damage for longer during the laning phase and hitting the tanks harder in teamfights
I just bought and played her for the 1st time today. I had fun even though I did terrible. My positioning was sooo bad lol, I am used to getting in deep and close and it cost me big time. Definitely going to work on getting better with her.
armor pen reds flat armor yellows mana regen blues flat ad quints
ur core is d-sword,serker,bf sword
depending on the teamcomp and how good ur early game farm was u can choose to get ie or thirster
if they have lots of bruisers and unignorable threats like noc or jax or something get thrister if u can buy thirster in 14 min get thirster if not buy ie
get wriggles if ur supporter sucks get wriggles if ur losing ur lane get wriggles if u kill thier tower super early if u buy wriggles than ur getting ie no questions asked
b4 10 min,every time ur forced to base and u dont have enuff gold for a big item buy a doran sword if u have more than 1 dorans,do not buy a wriggle dont ever buy more than 3 dorans
ur end game dps items should be ie + dancer + thirster but ur opponents are probably pussys and they bought armor u need to understand that carrys end up hitting tanks most of the time,thier carry wont ever buy fucking armor their tanks will and u need to itemize to damage their tanks not their carrys so if their tanks buy armor u need to stop making dancer or thrister after ie and work on your lw zeal is awesome though,u should buy a zeal after ur ie or thirster
if ur dead u do 0 dps its not that hard to understand sometimes the enemy team has unavoidable cc like amumu or ww with flash or ashe arrow or something gay u need to buy qss to counter that shit seriously,its not that hard to understand U NEED TO BUY QSS VS UNAVOIDABLE CC AND U NEED TO GET IT QUICK
so lets go over this again u start the game with doran sword and u buy wriggle OR 1~2 more doran swords than u buy a serkers(level 2 boots are retardly costeffective) u buy a big fucking sword asap after ur dorans or wriggles than u decided on what ur first big damage item is going to be ie or thrister after that u buy zeal than u ask urself if u need to buy qss or lw in the near future if so u need to start farming for that shit now after that u finish ur dancer than work on ie or thrister w/e u didnt get game should end by now
itemizing ad carrys should be fucking easy but ppl are retarded and buy dumb stuff
in lane u have the most range out of anybody but kog using W have ur support ward their foward brush and poke the living shit out of ppl U HAVE THE LONGEST RANGE IN THE GAME MAKE USE OF IT u want to push ur lane as cait ward thier sidebrush or dragon so u dont get jungler ganks and dont be fucking retard crazy even if u dont see the jungler from the ward poke the enemy at thier tower or push down tower
in teamfights its very simple u hit w/e is closest from max range just do that and u'll be playing ad carrys right 90%of the time if u see a cc'd enemy carry that u can focus than obviously u focus that fucker even if there's a tank close to u if some1 like noc or jax dives u exhaust and put a trap bit behind u and run the fuck away but u dont just run u fucking kite always be moving and shooting people ur not a real sniper u can move the fuck around while u shoot lol is hax like that
ps. u can read this guide a billion times but u'll still suck at cait if u dont play her pss guides are only useful for items and theorycraft u need to play the game psss watching streams is probably the best way to learn pssss ima start streaming within 3 days and u can request cait and ill help psssss im da best and kiruur should marry me already
On September 12 2011 17:48 spinesheath wrote: post scriptum scriptum scriptum scriptum scriptum? Shouldn't it be post post post post post scriptum if anything?
You forgot about the skill order.
so straight foward i didnt bother but since we have our fair share of retards on tl.....
On September 12 2011 17:48 spinesheath wrote: post scriptum scriptum scriptum scriptum scriptum? Shouldn't it be post post post post post scriptum if anything?
You forgot about the skill order.
so straight foward i didnt bother but since we have our fair share of retards on tl.....
wqeqqr after that max r>q>e>w
And here we are at the only point that is actually worth a discussion:
E or W.
E's cooldown goes from 20 sec down to 8 sec at rank 5. That's huge. W's cooldown goes from 18 sec down to 10 sec at rank 5. That's not too bad either. Additionally, the slow duration goes up from 1 to 2 seconds, but that shouldn't matter too much.
All the other stats can pretty much be ignored for this.
I would say that it is more useful to be able to set up 3 traps in 16 seconds, so I max W over E. It fits her playstyle: Siege the enemy base.
Fishnet is primarily an escape move, which should only need to be used once in a while, so the reduced cooldown isn't super important.
However, being able to place cupcakes down more often (and stronger cupcakes) let's you zone your opponent more effectively (the traps hurt more, and you can replace them quicker) which is generally more useful then having a mini-dash on a shorter cooldown.
On September 12 2011 22:20 STS17 wrote: I agree, max cupcakes over the fishnet.
Fishnet is primarily an escape move, which should only need to be used once in a while, so the reduced cooldown isn't super important.
However, being able to place cupcakes down more often (and stronger cupcakes) let's you zone your opponent more effectively (the traps hurt more, and you can replace them quicker) which is generally more useful then having a mini-dash on a shorter cooldown.
By the time you're maxing your second skill, you're thinking about teamfights, and not just laning anymore. As an AD carry I'd rather have the shorter net cooldown to better kite someone who's diving me, rather than the shorter CD snare to to chain off some teammate's CC that I might not actually be able to reach anyway.
EDIT: has anyone considered leveling them evenly? It keeps their CDs virtually the same, which means that as far as defensive CC goes, you could use your own nets to lead into a W snare when kiting someone.
First, I'm just mad that everyone I know bought the magazine, and now I have to contend with a bunch of bads playing Cait with that lame skin when I could do better.
Second, I know it's not terribly efficient, but I try to level up W and E evenly, until I feel I need one more than the other. If I'm getting ganked a bunch, I go E because it's a much better GTFO option. If I'm mostly 1v1'ing (especially against melees), W is much better because it's so easy to zone people exactly where you want them, and to give you safe spots where you can trap chasers.
In an ideal situation, I take E more, since the mobility is great and it's very unlikely that you need to slam down 3 traps really quickly like that. If you just remember to hit W when it's off CD, it's never really too hard to keep 3 down at once.
Also, I've kind of gotten into the habit of going Blade -> Boots -> BFS -> Zeal -> IE/BT -> PD. I thought it was really good getting that extra speed earlier, but I have to go back and agree that upgrading the BFS is much better, as you need the extra damage.
Honestly, though, I feel that the Bloodthirster has more to offer than IE. Yes, the crit is nice and you don't need to farm IE after every death, but for the most part, Cait farms so easy that you generally don't need to worry about it, and I don't feel she benefits from crit as much as other champions until she gets more of it. The lifesteal sustain is just, in my opinion, way too good to pass up for a chance of extra damage. I could be wrong, though, and I end up getting IE anyway, just usually after PD.
Of course we aren't specifically talking about laning when we discuss which ability to max second.
With Cait, you typically want to set up 3 traps near an enemy turret and whittle it down safely. Being able to set this up in 16 instead of 40 seconds seems pretty huge to me. I also prefer to lock down enemies with traps over E-ing away. Better control of teamfights, better for focusing people down, and the enemy can't just switch to another target (assuming it's a melee).
Kinda worth a mention: Both Westrice and Chaox have Cait guides on Solomid and both max W over E in their skill orders.
Some things I learned that may seem obvious but are harder to execute:
- Your Q has longer range than your auto, try to always get as many autos in and Q at the end, however your Q takes time to charge up so if you can hit multiple people or it's a sure kill then just use it. Q also does more damage than auto.
- Caitlyn is an extremely standard AD carry. You need to be able to animation cancel/orb walk very well with her. There's no Tris Q or Ashe slow to bail you out of microing. In lane you need to get as much out of your autos as possible. Last hit and auto the shit out of your opponents. This might be preference but even though I right click to last hit with some champions I NEVER right click with cait. ALWAYS attack move click creeps and champions.
- People are generally too passive with her in lane. You can hide in bush for more crits, but staying outside of the bush will allow you to auto people more often. You can seriously kill everyone with pure autos pre-6 as long as your support knows what's going on.
Caitlyn actually requires a decent amount of micro and reaction time. You need to click fast to kite and hit your targets. Everything else about her is extremely standard. I run the exact same setup as locodoco except for wriggles.
Btw once I was at base alt tabbed out then when I tabbed back locodoco died to one of my traps I placed randomly 20min ago to give me free gold, thnx loco.
On September 12 2011 23:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: Some things I learned that may seem obvious but are harder to execute:
- Your Q has longer range than your auto, try to always get as many autos in and Q at the end, however your Q takes time to charge up so if you can hit multiple people or it's a sure kill then just use it. Q also does more damage than auto.
- Caitlyn is an extremely standard AD carry. You need to be able to animation cancel/orb walk very well with her. There's no Tris Q or Ashe slow to bail you out of microing. In lane you need to get as much out of your autos as possible. Last hit and auto the shit out of your opponents. This might be preference but even though I right click to last hit with some champions I NEVER right click with cait. ALWAYS attack move click creeps and champions.
- People are generally too passive with her in lane. You can hide in bush for more crits, but staying outside of the bush will allow you to auto people more often. You can seriously kill everyone with pure autos pre-6 as long as your support knows what's going on.
Caitlyn actually requires a decent amount of micro and reaction time. You need to click fast to kite and hit your targets. Everything else about her is extremely standard. I run the exact same setup as locodoco except for wriggles.
Btw once I was at base alt tabbed out then when I tabbed back locodoco died to one of my traps I placed randomly 20min ago to give me free gold, thnx loco.
whats ur name in game? and 1 more thing after u get zeal ur autos do more dps than Q if u got thirster first over ie its okay to use Q until u get dancer
On September 12 2011 23:34 spinesheath wrote: Of course we aren't specifically talking about laning when we discuss which ability to max second.
With Cait, you typically want to set up 3 traps near an enemy turret and whittle it down safely. Being able to set this up in 16 instead of 40 seconds seems pretty huge to me. I also prefer to lock down enemies with traps over E-ing away. Better control of teamfights, better for focusing people down, and the enemy can't just switch to another target (assuming it's a melee).
Kinda worth a mention: Both Saintvicious and Chaox have Cait guides on Solomid and both max W over E in their skill orders.
Good point there. Indeed, three traps can shut down a turret choke pretty effectively. There are, however, champions that they're just plain not good against. Anyone who can just 'port over them, like Ez or Trist, will just laugh when you try to put them down. In that regard, I feel that Net is much better.
Like I said in my post, I don't always do one or the other, I think it's one of those things that varies based on the match and you need to be able to call an audible on. Traps are more useful in a variety of situations, but sometimes Net will save your life.
On September 12 2011 23:34 spinesheath wrote: Kinda worth a mention: Both Saintvicious and Chaox have Cait guides on Solomid and both max W over E in their skill orders.
You mean Westrice?
And I was under the impression that Chaox's Solomid guides were all semi-troll, given that when asked about whether he actually used the Irelia setup in his guide, his answer was along the lines of "hell no", and given that he suggests Zeal before completed BF item in every one of his ranged carry guides.
On September 12 2011 23:34 spinesheath wrote: Kinda worth a mention: Both Saintvicious and Chaox have Cait guides on Solomid and both max W over E in their skill orders.
You mean Westrice?
And I was under the impression that Chaox's Solomid guides were all semi-troll, given that when asked about whether he actually used the Irelia setup in his guide, his answer was along the lines of "hell no", and given that he suggests Zeal before completed BF item in every one of his ranged carry guides.
Yep, my bad. I personally don't give those guides too much credit, but I don't think it is meant as a troll skill order in this case.
On September 12 2011 23:34 spinesheath wrote: Of course we aren't specifically talking about laning when we discuss which ability to max second.
With Cait, you typically want to set up 3 traps near an enemy turret and whittle it down safely. Being able to set this up in 16 instead of 40 seconds seems pretty huge to me. I also prefer to lock down enemies with traps over E-ing away. Better control of teamfights, better for focusing people down, and the enemy can't just switch to another target (assuming it's a melee).
Kinda worth a mention: Both Saintvicious and Chaox have Cait guides on Solomid and both max W over E in their skill orders.
Good point there. Indeed, three traps can shut down a turret choke pretty effectively. There are, however, champions that they're just plain not good against. Anyone who can just 'port over them, like Ez or Trist, will just laugh when you try to put them down. In that regard, I feel that Net is much better.
Like I said in my post, I don't always do one or the other, I think it's one of those things that varies based on the match and you need to be able to call an audible on. Traps are more useful in a variety of situations, but sometimes Net will save your life.
If Ez or Trist jump past a well placed trap line, they should be dead immediately. Champs like Lee Sin and Nocturne are much more likely to cause you problems, but whether the cooldown of W/E plays a role when you get jumped by those is debatable. I'd say normally you don't get to use either of the two twice in that situation, no matter what rank they are.
Fair point. However, what I meant was, when someone is chasing you and you need to get away, I think having E on a shorter CD (and therefore more likely to be available) is very good. If Trist or Ez or whoever with a teleport or dash or jump is chasing you, they're going to go right over your trap, but Net will not only jump you away but slow their pursuit. I guess it's because I tend to play a bit more reactive, and I prefer "gtfo" rather than "bait into the trap" style of escape. Ideally they'd be dead before you need to escape, but eh.
My point is that you WILL have a trap and a net available unless you fucked up. You use both while trying to deal with someone going after you. That particular fight typically should not last 10 seconds though, so you won't have a second net regardless of rank. Of course having net back up earlier still is useful if you finished/scared off someone and come back into the fight for more. But I say the shorter cooldown on traps is more important.
True, you're probably right. I've never claimed to be a good player, but I do ok. I need to be better about traps, and since I'm not that great about placing them and what not, I usually don't find myself leveling it too much. I'll work on that.
On September 12 2011 23:43 zulu_nation8 wrote:This might be preference but even though I right click to last hit with some champions I NEVER right click with cait. ALWAYS attack move click creeps and champions.
What's the difference? Is it just "if I miss my right click I walk toward my target like a moron, but if I miss an attack-move I don't"?
On September 12 2011 23:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: Some things I learned that may seem obvious but are harder to execute:
- Your Q has longer range than your auto, try to always get as many autos in and Q at the end, however your Q takes time to charge up so if you can hit multiple people or it's a sure kill then just use it. Q also does more damage than auto.
- Caitlyn is an extremely standard AD carry. You need to be able to animation cancel/orb walk very well with her. There's no Tris Q or Ashe slow to bail you out of microing. In lane you need to get as much out of your autos as possible. Last hit and auto the shit out of your opponents. This might be preference but even though I right click to last hit with some champions I NEVER right click with cait. ALWAYS attack move click creeps and champions.
- People are generally too passive with her in lane. You can hide in bush for more crits, but staying outside of the bush will allow you to auto people more often. You can seriously kill everyone with pure autos pre-6 as long as your support knows what's going on.
Caitlyn actually requires a decent amount of micro and reaction time. You need to click fast to kite and hit your targets. Everything else about her is extremely standard. I run the exact same setup as locodoco except for wriggles.
Btw once I was at base alt tabbed out then when I tabbed back locodoco died to one of my traps I placed randomly 20min ago to give me free gold, thnx loco.
whats ur name in game? and 1 more thing after u get zeal ur autos do more dps than Q if u got thirster first over ie its okay to use Q until u get dancer
Really good Carry early game, easy to last hit and harass with Q and the annoying traps. Can jump to walls and incredible range. Problem with Cait is his late game compare to other carries. Her damage output and utility are lacking late game. Ashe have arrow ulti, Kogmaw has the best range and his poke is OP, Vayne's damage output is great and Ezreal have free blink and long range Q.
Her late game is simply very standard, there's nothing special about it, which I kind of like in a way. She doesn't have any true strength, but she's so well rounded by end game that she has no real exploitable weakness either. Her and Trist have a very safe lategame. Ez is more prone to losing on damage by missing Q/W/R, Kog doesn't really have an escape, Vayne has no AoE and only one, semi mediocre escape, and Ashe doesn't really have as much damage as other AD carries. Trist and Cait are well rounded in all those regards.
On September 13 2011 02:16 DarkRise wrote: Really good Carry early game, easy to last hit and harass with Q and the annoying traps. Can jump to walls and incredible range. Problem with Cait is his late game compare to other carries. Her damage output and utility are lacking late game. Ashe have arrow ulti, Kogmaw has the best range and his poke is OP, Vayne's damage output is great and Ezreal have free blink and long range Q.
You don't have the utility or damage of other AD carries in most cases. But if you outplayed the other team you should be more farmed than their carry anyways and Caitlyn still does ridiculous late game damage just like every other AD carry.
She isn't an early/mid game only champ anymore. Her late game autos hurt like a bitch and her long range makes it easy to have good position in teamfights.
So... midding vs Vlad. Yes, I know, he's not that strong anymore since his nerf, but his lane sustain is disgusting. I thought I played pretty well last night, but no matter how aggressively I poked and pushed, he could just retreat to a tower and refill on my minions. And the minimal damage he did to me stacked up over time, while the damage I did to him just got healed away, so I'd end up having to play really defensively or die.
Any tips for this? I probably could have done a better job of staying at max range, and my teammates definitely could have helped gank, but I didn't feel like there was much else I could have done to control the lane against him.
On September 13 2011 23:41 Requizen wrote: So... midding vs Vlad. Yes, I know, he's not that strong anymore since his nerf, but his lane sustain is disgusting. I thought I played pretty well last night, but no matter how aggressively I poked and pushed, he could just retreat to a tower and refill on my minions. And the minimal damage he did to me stacked up over time, while the damage I did to him just got healed away, so I'd end up having to play really defensively or die.
Any tips for this? I probably could have done a better job of staying at max range, and my teammates definitely could have helped gank, but I didn't feel like there was much else I could have done to control the lane against him.
armor pen reds mana regen yellows flat mr blues ad quints
boots x 3 pots
push the shit out of the lane at level 1 learn W get level 2 before and put traps near the tower to limit his movement predict when his gonna use his transfusion and use ur Q on him when his using transfusion at tower poke the fuck out of him early ward both ur side brushes and just keep pressuring the lane once u have the lane pushed to tower and it starts pushing back and meets in the middle u can deny him
Is it worth delaying your BF Sword for wards? I mean yeah, you want vision, but that damage almost feels too necessary to pass up. I usually go Boots -> Blade -> BFSword -> Boots2 -> Zeal -> BT/IE -> PD, where should wards be purchased?
On September 14 2011 00:12 Requizen wrote: Still under 20, so no runes, but I'll get on that
Is it worth delaying your BF Sword for wards? I mean yeah, you want vision, but that damage almost feels too necessary to pass up. I usually go Boots -> Blade -> BFSword -> Boots2 -> Zeal -> BT/IE -> PD, where should wards be purchased?
Whenever you need them aka. everytime you dont have vision
On September 14 2011 00:25 Requizen wrote: Fair enough. It'd be nice if anyone else in randoms bought them....
But yeah, I'll probably start doing that to keep myself safe from ganks. Just as no one wards, no one mia's, which is silly bad.
Thanks for the help :D
I've found that if you buy wards and are consistent in calling your mias that others on your team will start doing the same as well.
As a general rule though, every time you back while in lane you should be spending some excess money (since you rarely ever back with exactly enough cash to buy a specific item) on wards / health pots.
On September 14 2011 00:25 Requizen wrote: Fair enough. It'd be nice if anyone else in randoms bought them....
But yeah, I'll probably start doing that to keep myself safe from ganks. Just as no one wards, no one mia's, which is silly bad.
Thanks for the help :D
The worst thing about dinging lvl 30, is to not have any clues about wards. It should be something recommended (like an extra slot or something) for every single champion in the game. If you learn how to ward, you will be able to focus more on winning your lane, rather than be annoyed everytime their jungler comes in and wtf ganks the shit out of you.
I started playing Cait a lot recently and I do fairly well with her. The hero that I have a really tough time against is Talon. I feel so helpless against him. He just silences and does his burst repeatedly, it's so damn annoying. Does anyone have the same problem against him? If not, what do you guys do?
I feel the same way with Vayne vs Talon as well. I don't know, I may just be terrible with ranged AD.
On September 14 2011 01:10 Raisauce wrote: I started playing Cait a lot recently and I do fairly well with her. The hero that I have a really tough time against is Talon. I feel so helpless against him. He just silences and does his burst repeatedly, it's so damn annoying. Does anyone have the same problem against him? If not, what do you guys do?
I feel the same way with Vayne vs Talon as well. I don't know, I may just be terrible with ranged AD.
If he stealths, sit on a trap and E or Flash away.
...Oh god WoW memories taking over. Hunters and Rogues........
Seriously though, don't solo engage him, try to bait him into traps, and generally just out-range him. If you do solo-lane against him, just play carefully. If he charges/jumps you, get to your tower. Don't wander past the river alone.
Some cool trick I saw some Cait do that I've never seen before. Put 3 traps at the enemy wraiths. Can usually slow down some junglers, just don't do it vs Noct ^^
On September 24 2011 02:36 HazMat wrote: Some cool trick I saw some Cait do that I've never seen before. Put 3 traps at the enemy wraiths. Can usually slow down some junglers, just don't do it vs Noct ^^
lol, we once had Cait drop trap on wraith bush while I did my red buff WW start ambush shenanigan, while Turkey sat there waiting for him as Zil.
On September 24 2011 02:36 HazMat wrote: Some cool trick I saw some Cait do that I've never seen before. Put 3 traps at the enemy wraiths. Can usually slow down some junglers, just don't do it vs Noct ^^
lol, we once had Cait drop trap on wraith bush while I did my red buff WW start ambush shenanigan, while Turkey sat there waiting for him as Zil.
So BM.
Cait trap in wraith brush + heimer turret outside the brush but outside of wraith range is brutal too, quick set-up and fucks up every jungler that starts at blue. If you know they're at golems you put the heimer turret on the other side of the brush instead of wraith-side
Concerning tertiary items: after BT and PD, I usually pick between a LW for arpen or IE for damage if no armor. Lately I've been thinking of getting a Cleaver for both and a bit of attack speed. Is this suboptimal?
On October 01 2011 12:26 Requizen wrote: Concerning tertiary items: after BT and PD, I usually pick between a LW for arpen or IE for damage if no armor. Lately I've been thinking of getting a Cleaver for both and a bit of attack speed. Is this suboptimal?
100% situational. Cleaver's armor pen is most effective on squishies with low to mediocre armor. LW's armor pen is most effective on beasts that are stacking armor.
On October 01 2011 12:26 Requizen wrote: Concerning tertiary items: after BT and PD, I usually pick between a LW for arpen or IE for damage if no armor. Lately I've been thinking of getting a Cleaver for both and a bit of attack speed. Is this suboptimal?
Also if there other AD champs in your team BC becomes even better since they do more damage too, i like to get BC most of the time since i like to focus low hp-armor ppl and not tanks XD
On October 01 2011 12:26 Requizen wrote: Concerning tertiary items: after BT and PD, I usually pick between a LW for arpen or IE for damage if no armor. Lately I've been thinking of getting a Cleaver for both and a bit of attack speed. Is this suboptimal?
100% situational. Cleaver's armor pen is most effective on squishies with low to mediocre armor. LW's armor pen is most effective on beasts that are stacking armor.
By the time you start building your third item (usually between 25-30 minutes if you don't get a BV/QSS first) most people already have too much armour for BC to be at its best and it only gets worse as the game goes on.
Thanks for responses, just one more. After that (and this is end-game, probably never build it type stuff), but do you go for a defensive item? I feel that BT gives enough sustain, but I rarely get a game that goes that long and allows for enough farm.
On October 04 2011 03:20 Requizen wrote: Thanks for responses, just one more. After that (and this is end-game, probably never build it type stuff), but do you go for a defensive item? I feel that BT gives enough sustain, but I rarely get a game that goes that long and allows for enough farm.
BF sword item, PD, LW+ boots is generally your 4 core damage/movement slots. I'd generally look at how you're dying and get a negatron or chainmail post zeal before finishing the PD, especially if you start strong and get a charged BT or IE before 20 minutes.
QSS/LW timing on cait is usually very important, given that she's a huge chunk of deadweight if she's dead or can't do any damage to the people in range of her.
So no, its never an end-game thing. Its generally a midgame thing. Going 100% damage doesn't work unless your support/peeling crew is top notch and you have time to trap up the fight area, which you often don't. I'd only go the 100% deeps route if I was kog and they didn't have a ridiculous gap closer.
Edit: Do you mean an additional 6th defensive item to close our your build? I'd generally get another PD and abuse traps + movement as my defense if I already had QSS and I wasn't getting 100->0 bursted.
Well I did mean the 6th, build closing item, but you bring up a good point. I'm still newish, so I do often "blind build" and just go DBlade > Boots > BFS > Zeal > etc without responding. When do you think it's necessary to grab a defensive item? I generally feel safe with 2/3 DBlades, but maybe the Negatron or Chain is nice. Then just hold on to them until you can build them into something better later? Will just those be enough to keep one alive through the mid-game?
On October 04 2011 06:46 Requizen wrote: Well I did mean the 6th, build closing item, but you bring up a good point. I'm still newish, so I do often "blind build" and just go DBlade > Boots > BFS > Zeal > etc without responding. When do you think it's necessary to grab a defensive item? I generally feel safe with 2/3 DBlades, but maybe the Negatron or Chain is nice. Then just hold on to them until you can build them into something better later? Will just those be enough to keep one alive through the mid-game?
You can't cookie-cutter your defensive item selection. How much defense you need depends on what kind of diving power the opposing team has, what dangerous spells they have that you have to be wary about, how farmed the enemy carries are compared to you, etc.
Sometimes you don't buy defense till after 3 damage items. Sometimes you need QSS right after your IE is finished. You have to get a feel for what different champions can do, and how much defense you need against them.
Read on Reddit that Candy Panda plays Cait with Arpen red, AD yellow, AS blue, AD quints.
Schwa? I guess if you really want to just crush early on and dominate lane, but there's no defense there at all. I missed his build, did he get Wriggles or something to make up for it?
EPT![[image loading]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110105121354/leagueoflegends/images/8/8e/Headshot.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110105121337/leagueoflegends/images/d/d7/YordleSnapTrap.jpg)
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there you have skill :-P
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sfLrK.png)
That being said, I get red constantly on caitlyn because you can stand in the bushes and significantly increase your DPS against it due to her passive. She has very little CC, and your jungler should have phage/frozen mallet. The damage increase isn't as effective for the jungler, as they are usually just a melee body in a fight (most junglers, I ain't hatin GP [even though GP has a slow]) and won't be doing the kind of sustained, split dps that the AD ranged carry will be doing. Being kited sucks, so having a ranged AD carry that can slow is just amazing (HENCE WHY ASHE ES #1 HUEHUEHEUEHU)
