EPT[Champion] Leona, the Radiant Dawn - Page 5
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On July 13 2011 23:32 Two_DoWn wrote: If utility doesnt win games why is janna the best support in the game? Knockback, shield, knock up, slow and a heal. That is not only a lot more then what she provides with a single stun, it also suits the desired role for a support bot perfectly. People want support to babysit the bottom lane. The more defensive utility is best for that. In that regard what Blitz provides in terms of utility is a little too agressive with the pull. But what could Leona possibly add to a solo bot lane with just a stun? That is all her utility wich makes her slightly less usefull then every champion with a ranged stun. It's like saying Sion has a ton of utility. She just doesn't seem like a solid choice for anything tbh. Her utility is nothing to write home about. The only thing she brings to the table is a "low cooldown" stun but the clip shows it having 5+ seconds of CD wich makes it about the time of a blitz knock up and less usefull when tenacity is taken into account. All of her other skills are pretty self centered. A shield, a gap closer, a ranged stun. Maybe her stats will prove to be great but just going off what we have seen and been told i don't see any reason to consider her to be a utility powerhouse. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
Edit: Also I know this is earth-shattering and shocking but AD+support gets countered by ranged stun + nuke, ie. Taric/Annie or Taric/Brand or in Shake's case Taric/Ezreal. Taric/Cow+Garen is still a ridic lane, as is something like Blitz/Cow and Blitz/Garen. You can even do something hilarious like Jarvan Annie and roll people. What does this mean? Leona's a pretty nasty bottom lane with the right combo. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On July 13 2011 23:51 zalz wrote: Knockback, shield, knock up, slow and a heal. That is not only a lot more then what she provides with a single stun, it also suits the desired role for a support bot perfectly. People want support to babysit the bottom lane. The more defensive utility is best for that. In that regard what Blitz provides in terms of utility is a little too agressive with the pull. But what could Leona possibly add to a solo bot lane with just a stun? That is all her utility wich makes her slightly less usefull then every champion with a ranged stun. It's like saying Sion has a ton of utility. She just doesn't seem like a solid choice for anything tbh. Her utility is nothing to write home about. The only thing she brings to the table is a "low cooldown" stun but the clip shows it having 5+ seconds of CD wich makes it about the time of a blitz knock up and less usefull when tenacity is taken into account. All of her other skills are pretty self centered. A shield, a gap closer, a ranged stun. Maybe her stats will prove to be great but just going off what we have seen and been told i don't see any reason to consider her to be a utility powerhouse. 1) Her passive applies a damage boost for an the next allied hit. This means that she will be able to harass like a boss- gap close (auto) stun (auto) and deal a lot of damage. 2) People tend to get bogged down in metagames. There is nothing that says an ad carry needs to be bot. Run corki or ashe mid. Run leona bot with garen, cho, brand or another caster. Carry+support gets ROCKED by caster+anyone or 2 tanky dps with gap closers and a stun. | ||
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Jaso
United States2147 Posts
On July 10 2011 02:23 Javadocs wrote: Definitely going to build a Sheen on her the first time I try her out, and I agree with most of you, it looks like she needs lots of CDR to be viable. Her ult at rank 3 is only 75 seconds base cooldown so we'll be able to use it like candy, assuming mana isn't an issue at that stage of the game, and it has an 80% slow or stun. I wonder how slow they'd be with Rylai's, lol. I think for skills I'm going to go R > Q > W > E, with 1 point in E early. Q for shorter cooldown on my stun and then W to be prepared when team fights start. I think I'll probably take MPen reds, armor yellows, MResist/lvl blues, and health quints. Don't know if ArPen reds would be better though, for last hitting if I'm solo top. As for items, I'm going to try: Regrowth Pendant -> Philo Stone + Boots -> Sheen -> Catalyst -> Merc Treads -> Triforce -> Defensive. Might skip the Sheen, but it's one of my favorite items, so I have to try it! Depending on the range and width of her E, I can see her being a good ganker. Level 6, all you need to do is W -> hit E's skillshot -> Q -> wait for stun to be close to ending -> R stun. She probably need help though. Her base damage seems a little low. Anyone else think this too? Actually, with a Rylais they'd only be slowed an additional 3%. | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
On July 14 2011 02:40 0123456789 wrote: Janna is on the lower end of supports currently. Whaaaaaaaat that makes no sense. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
Janna has no heal. Makes her laning really bad. You can abuse it by harassing and taking worst exchanges, and coming out better. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
On July 14 2011 02:46 0123456789 wrote: Janna has no heal. Makes her laning really bad. You can abuse it by harassing and taking worst exchanges, and coming out better. Janna can play more aggressive with W than the other supports, it just depends on the lane matchup. Plus lanes with Janna are most difficult to gank. I do not consider any of the triumvirate (Sona Sora Janna) having any sort of superiority over each other at the moment, as they have advantages and disadvantages and bad matchups and whatnot. Yeah an attrition war between a Janna lane and Soraka lane isn't going to be pretty. Taric's nice for solo q because he damages duo-lane coordination with the ranged stun but I maintain that as a support hero he's probably the worst and by a far margin, with the exception of Cait trap shenanigans :x | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
On July 14 2011 02:47 Two_DoWn wrote: It just changes the way you play. Plus she has free ad. Play more farmcentric rather than aggressive. You play "farmcentric", give up lane control, then get raped. By raped I mean you're going to lose in cs 100%, unless your opponents are inexperienced. If they are, you can get by with just farmcentric play. | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
On July 14 2011 02:50 Southlight wrote: Janna can play more aggressive with W than the other supports, it just depends on the lane matchup. Plus lanes with Janna are most difficult to gank. I do not consider any of the triumvirate (Sona Sora Janna) having any sort of superiority over each other at the moment, as they have advantages and disadvantages and bad matchups and whatnot. Yeah an attrition war between a Janna lane and Soraka lane isn't going to be pretty. Taric's nice for solo q because he damages duo-lane coordination with the ranged stun but I maintain that as a support hero he's probably the worst and by a far margin, with the exception of Cait trap shenanigans :x You go into w range, take a stun or dmg, and then can't heal it back. Janna lanes are more efficient with champions that have sustains, she's not used too well currently. In the standard ad/support vs ad/support, you're going to get raped playing janna. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
Also it's why I run armor page on support. I can't tell you if that's what's causing me to win every lane with support heroes regardless of matchup etc. I also open Charm + 6 pots + ward, if you play a lane that allows you to max out W you'll win lane almost always, with the possible exception of Soraka (that one really depends on the lane partner and how well they can sustain damage, but that's always the case against Soraka lanes regardless of what support hero you take). Edit: On July 14 2011 02:57 Mogwai wrote: I think farmcentric is exactly how you're not supposed to play janna in modern bot lane. The nature of Shield vs. Heal is that you can only keep up if you force exchanges on every shield CD so that you can get the same mileage out of your shield that they get out of their heal. More or less. It's why when I Janna I favor W'ing them to cut them down, and if the AD starts taking creep hits or looks like they'll get hit I shield them, as a coordinated attack. Engage on your terms to maximize shield effectiveness, whether it's blocking creep hits (worth it) or opponent retaliation. People just lock into this mindset that all supports play the same, and work well in all matchups, but that's not true. With the possible exception of Soraka. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
also, this is why creating champion threads before the champ is out is stupid. might as well call this the bot lane discussion thread, zzzz. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
On July 14 2011 03:00 Mogwai wrote: honestly you win bot lane every time because we play with IRL friends who aren't at your level so you're pretty much constantly playing vs. lesser opposition. This isn't to say that you're necessarily wrong, but it does take some weight away from that argument. also, this is why creating champion threads before the champ is out is stupid. might as well call this the bot lane discussion thread, zzzz. I'm winning bot lanes in solo queue too.................... ........ but then again I'm still under where I probably should be so that argument dies. Mweh. My point was more mathematically, Janna vs Sona for instance, Sona flat-out does less damage to Janna with my runeset than I do back, if she doesn't have the same type of runes. This forces Sona to be less effective, as I can prevent her from double Q, and drain mana on heals, which is not mana efficient. Boom, lane won, pending AD matchup. And that's not an area I can control. Edit: By the way I'm operating under the assumption that the armor runeset hasn't caught on with supports, which as far as I know is still true, with the possible exception of Taric (mainly because it was popularized on him in the first place >_o). Haven't really seen any of the top support players run that sort of set yet. Edit2: My point in the above is that if you play the matchup right you shouldn't really lose a lane unless the AD matchup (as an example) is really bad, in which case yeah you're in trouble. But you'll have a similar issue with like Soraka Ashe vs Ezreal Janna, as an example, because they'll literally just level 2 you despite having supposedly an inferior lane. Mweh. It just boggles my mind that people can consider Janna "the worst" support; she definitely excels in a lot of matchups, just not as flexible as Sora. | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On July 14 2011 02:58 Southlight wrote: More or less. It's why when I Janna I favor W'ing them to cut them down, and if the AD starts taking creep hits or looks like they'll get hit I shield them, as a coordinated attack. Engage on your terms to maximize shield effectiveness, whether it's blocking creep hits (worth it) or opponent retaliation. People just lock into this mindset that all supports play the same, and work well in all matchups, but that's not true. With the possible exception of Soraka. This is more what I meant. In my opinion if you dont have a heal, you need to focus more on farming and then picking your spots to attack since if you take a bad exchange you WILL lose the lane. So in my head farmcentric means getting last hits, controlling the lane well, and making sure to only exchange when you know you can take very little damage. | ||
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