[Champion] Leona, the Radiant Dawn - Page 6

On July 14 2011 03:22 Southlight wrote:
Nope, just simple level 2 numbers. Soraka level 2 isn't very effective (primarily only has a long cd heal, though it gives armor), same goes for Sona especially if you focus-fire one person. Janna's got the strongest level 2 via having a nuke/snare as well as a shield. I've been saying that she NEEDS to go on the offensive. Somewhat different from the other supports who can ride the AD matchup (ie. Trist vs Ashe) and back up the AD but otherwise don't really contribute as much.

On July 14 2011 03:30 Southlight wrote:
Depends on who your AD is. Ezreal can, yes. Trist maybe maybe not, though Trist would fairly happily welcome level 3/4 before engaging. If they're clearly going for the level 2 ding and pushing it fast there's no point in playing the attrition game until creep stabilizes, to be honest? Don't take damage and reset for equalized levels, then gun after them.

I tend to see a zone attempt if they try to push the creep like that at level 2 with that sort of matchup though, especially with Ezreal. Or they can sit in the creep to avoid zone/skillshot but then they're the ones fucked if there's a damage exchange.

Edit:
Sorry, zone attempt because Ashe volley + crit is on CD so Ez can feel free to wrap around and go for skillshots. Soraka heal CD is also low enough that you can press them back.

For example let's say you do that, but Janna snares the Ashe, and the Ezreal walks around to line up skillshots, where's Ashe going to go? She can either run into the creep to ding level 2 faster and try to block Q, but that means if there's an auto exchange she'll tank the creep faster. If she tries to dodge she's a bit snared. Or if she runs backward then she's getting zoned. Also Ashe level 2 doesn't really help. You can do some further shenanigans as Janna by attacking the Ashe and pulling the creep to you (with armor runes and pots ezpz) and so the Ezreal is no longer in danger of tanking creep while Ashe is, if she runs toward creep, plus because their creep is attacking after you, they're not pushing down your creep, halting the level 2 attempt.

On July 14 2011 03:41 Southlight wrote:
At level 1 on first wave there's not a whole lot of CS score, except for maybe 1 or 2 for the Ashe, yes. And I'm not trying to CS as Janna. Ashe doesn't have to let me walk up to her, she's stuck having to dodge Ezreal as well as me, because they don't have bush control (especially if they volley creep for level 2 ding) so we can just circumvent the creep and walk over there. Also, if she backpedals because she's afraid of my W so that she's zoned out of some creep exp, I'm not gonna complain.

On July 14 2011 03:43 0123456789 wrote:
So level 1, you got control of both brushes, ezreal has a really easy time hitting q's off lvl 1 with a weaker wave, and no1's going to punish you for walking up to them at lvl 1 and hitting them, especially a champion with 600 range, and on top of that, you're doing this before the second wave comes. It feels like you're hanging on real hard to the idea of ashe wasting both volley and crit. Ashe doesn't have to waste volley to equalize or get a stronger wave unless ezreal auto attacks like crazy.

On July 14 2011 03:26 0123456789 wrote:


Let's say that ashe ff'd and killed a creep faster than you with his crit, and then dmged 5 creeps with volley and has a stronger push vs you. Now you're trying to auto attack the wave, and ashe is trying to equalize the wave. Lvl 2 comes, are you going to try to dive a lot of creeps to try to deal dmg to ashe soraka? If you don't kill, soraka can heal it up pretty well.

On July 12 2011 02:51 Shikyo wrote:
Well, Southlight doesn't seem to read anyone elses posts

On July 14 2011 03:46 Southlight wrote:
Who's going to punish? Volley/crit-less Ashe? Soraka autoattack? Or maybe Soraka opened Infuse, lolol?

On July 14 2011 03:56 Southlight wrote:
I hear when someone asks me what we'd do in a hypothetical theorycraft situ where someone does a certain action, that I'm supposed to read behind the lines and not explain the obvious response to that action, but instead respond that that action is retarded to begin with and that it's impossible to play any other way.

You brought up a theorycraft situ.
I explained a very, very simple way to punish them for trying to do a level 2 ding.

You try to bring up "but but but" about a whole load of other unrelated stuff, like teleport ganks and jungle ganks (lol when the first wave isn't even dead yet!?!?) but I felt polite enough to answer "if they want to they can."

Now you're trying to act high and mighty saying that I'm a retard for answering your theorycraft situ.

Can't win any way, I guess. Sure, spellcasters suck because you can never land spells (they're stupid if they don't just run back to avoid getting hit!), and Ezreal is useless because you have to be retarded to ever get hit by Q. Also apparently you have to



to land Qs, and Soraka heals 400 HP in 30 seconds at level 1 without running out of mana at all.

And when you go harass people to ping Soraka's mana down you can't actually break off, WHEN YOU GO YOU MUST TANK ALL CREEP AND TOWERS TO GET DA KILL, ALWAYS KILL NEVER RUN HUEHUEHUE.

Seriously?

On July 14 2011 03:59 0123456789 wrote:
Seriously....
Why would ashe and soraka ever try to ding a lvl 2 pressure attack. Does that make sense?

You're not even talking about the thing I'm talking about.

On July 14 2011 03:26 0123456789 wrote:
Let's say that ashe ff'd and killed a creep faster than you with his crit, and then dmged 5 creeps with volley and has a stronger push vs you. Now you're trying to auto attack the wave, and ashe is trying to equalize the wave. Lvl 2 comes, are you going to try to dive a lot of creeps to try to deal dmg to ashe soraka? If you don't kill, soraka can heal it up pretty well.

On July 14 2011 03:54 Mogwai wrote:


btw, from the peanut gallery, this argument got really stupid really really really really fast.

On July 14 2011 03:04 Southlight wrote:


I'm winning bot lanes in solo queue too....................

........ but then again I'm still under where I probably should be so that argument dies. Mweh.

My point was more mathematically, Janna vs Sona for instance, Sona flat-out does less damage to Janna with my runeset than I do back, if she doesn't have the same type of runes. This forces Sona to be less effective, as I can prevent her from double Q, and drain mana on heals, which is not mana efficient. Boom, lane won, pending AD matchup. And that's not an area I can control.

Edit:
By the way I'm operating under the assumption that the armor runeset hasn't caught on with supports, which as far as I know is still true, with the possible exception of Taric (mainly because it was popularized on him in the first place >_o). Haven't really seen any of the top support players run that sort of set yet.

Edit2:
My point in the above is that if you play the matchup right you shouldn't really lose a lane unless the AD matchup (as an example) is really bad, in which case yeah you're in trouble. But you'll have a similar issue with like Soraka Ashe vs Ezreal Janna, as an example, because they'll literally just level 2 you despite having supposedly an inferior lane. Mweh. It just boggles my mind that people can consider Janna "the worst" support; she definitely excels in a lot of matchups, just not as flexible as Sora.