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[Champion] Jarman the Fourth (aka Jarvan ok) - Page 28

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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getpicture
Profile Joined January 2011
141 Posts
January 17 2012 04:09 GMT
#541
obviously its nothing huge, if you have no mana go back home to heal. all calculated teamfights begin with full mana. jarvan is exactly this type of clean cut proper engage champ. if jarvan is even forced into a team fight with only half mana full then it sucks. he spends quite a bit farming.
Chiharu Harukaze
Profile Joined September 2011
12112 Posts
January 17 2012 04:13 GMT
#542
On January 17 2012 12:58 getpicture wrote:
there jarvan got a buff which solves his mana problems a bit. the truth is barely anyone at riot games cares about jarvan because they dont play him. their focus is only tier 1 champs and only balancing it around that. despite kennen and rumble being strong and hard counters to poor play, the only champ to further.nerf is Ahri.

you will see in the coming months ahri will be further nerfed again and again as how xin zhao got repeatedly nerfed because noobs in solo queued complained about ganks.

a lot of the designers at riot games who develop their own champs would prefer their own designed champ to be not touched and balanced by others. this is out of respect because they believe that designers understand their heroes best and their core mechanics. this is obviously wrong. think about the ppl who designed chess/ any other game/sport.plenty of players outplay their creators. just because a person designed it, doesn't mean they understand balance at the highest levels. some new champions are being developed by the new graduates/employees(rotation work) to test their hand at game design- viktor/swain(reused) to give them the experience because they have nothing in their work portfolio.

anyways this is the last jarvan buff we will see. not every champ is designed for competitive/viable play. some are just for laughs/trollage to cause pain for opponents in solo queue. not saying jarvan is troll, but he fulfills a niche.


I'm sure you happen to know people at Riot and know exactly how they get things done. I mean, obviously you have great Riot connections with multiple designers, producers and other staff on your FList.

I also totally agree that the Design and Live Balance Team never talk. You're really on the ball here! It's also true that designers don't understand design better than players. It's why coaches are irrelevant because why does Flash need help if he's a good player? You insight is absolutely astounding. Are there any other great ideas or leaks you can pass on?

As an aside, the mana buff helps with laning and lets have the full combo open a lot more which is nice. Not sure how this compares with the old double philo, but I assume that early trading top lane is less harsh since you still have mana to trade more. Dunno about the jungle factor though.
It's like, "Is the Federation's Mobile Suit some kind of monster?"
warscythes
Profile Joined December 2011
365 Posts
January 17 2012 04:21 GMT
#543
Happy birthday getapicture, but I think you are just trolling me at this point. Stop with the nonsense.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-17 04:45:30
January 17 2012 04:44 GMT
#544
i just disagree that mana was a glaring weakness for jarman. there were times I was sad due to mana issues, but they've tended to be fairly rare and thus, while I'm sure I'll have a lot more gas in the tank to cast spells now, I don't think that was really much of an issue for jarmang.

I agree that the numbers are pretty large and thus pretty significant at addressing mana issues, I just contest that mana issues were a big deal for him.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
warscythes
Profile Joined December 2011
365 Posts
January 17 2012 04:48 GMT
#545
On January 17 2012 13:44 Mogwai wrote:
i just disagree that mana was a glaring weakness for jarman. there were times I was sad due to mana issues, but they've tended to be fairly rare and thus, while I'm sure I'll have a lot more gas in the tank to cast spells now, I don't think that was really much of an issue for jarmang.

I agree that the numbers are pretty large and thus pretty significant at addressing mana issues, I just contest that mana issues were a big deal for him.


Fair enough.

By the way I wish you would record your streams a bit more often, I liked the VODs that you remembered to save.
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
January 17 2012 05:11 GMT
#546
On January 17 2012 12:58 getpicture wrote:
there jarvan got a buff which solves his mana problems a bit. the truth is barely anyone at riot games cares about jarvan because they dont play him. their focus is only tier 1 champs and only balancing it around that. despite kennen and rumble being strong and hard counters to poor play, the only champ to further.nerf is Ahri.

you will see in the coming months ahri will be further nerfed again and again as how xin zhao got repeatedly nerfed because noobs in solo queued complained about ganks.

a lot of the designers at riot games who develop their own champs would prefer their own designed champ to be not touched and balanced by others. this is out of respect because they believe that designers understand their heroes best and their core mechanics. this is obviously wrong. think about the ppl who designed chess/ any other game/sport.plenty of players outplay their creators. just because a person designed it, doesn't mean they understand balance at the highest levels. some new champions are being developed by the new graduates/employees(rotation work) to test their hand at game design- viktor/swain(reused) to give them the experience because they have nothing in their work portfolio. **

anyways this is the last jarvan buff we will see. not every champ is designed for competitive/viable play. some are just for laughs/trollage to cause pain for opponents in solo queue. not saying jarvan is troll, but he fulfills a niche.



**citation needed. where have they ever said any of those things?
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
warscythes
Profile Joined December 2011
365 Posts
January 17 2012 05:17 GMT
#547
On January 17 2012 14:11 barbsq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 12:58 getpicture wrote:
there jarvan got a buff which solves his mana problems a bit. the truth is barely anyone at riot games cares about jarvan because they dont play him. their focus is only tier 1 champs and only balancing it around that. despite kennen and rumble being strong and hard counters to poor play, the only champ to further.nerf is Ahri.

you will see in the coming months ahri will be further nerfed again and again as how xin zhao got repeatedly nerfed because noobs in solo queued complained about ganks.

a lot of the designers at riot games who develop their own champs would prefer their own designed champ to be not touched and balanced by others. this is out of respect because they believe that designers understand their heroes best and their core mechanics. this is obviously wrong. think about the ppl who designed chess/ any other game/sport.plenty of players outplay their creators. just because a person designed it, doesn't mean they understand balance at the highest levels. some new champions are being developed by the new graduates/employees(rotation work) to test their hand at game design- viktor/swain(reused) to give them the experience because they have nothing in their work portfolio. **

anyways this is the last jarvan buff we will see. not every champ is designed for competitive/viable play. some are just for laughs/trollage to cause pain for opponents in solo queue. not saying jarvan is troll, but he fulfills a niche.



**citation needed. where have they ever said any of those things?


They didn't, trust me on this. I post fairly frequently on the official LoL forum and check the redtracker as well, I have never seen those quotes. If this is true I will eat my hat.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
January 17 2012 08:07 GMT
#548
On January 17 2012 13:48 warscythes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 13:44 Mogwai wrote:
i just disagree that mana was a glaring weakness for jarman. there were times I was sad due to mana issues, but they've tended to be fairly rare and thus, while I'm sure I'll have a lot more gas in the tank to cast spells now, I don't think that was really much of an issue for jarmang.

I agree that the numbers are pretty large and thus pretty significant at addressing mana issues, I just contest that mana issues were a big deal for him.


Fair enough.

By the way I wish you would record your streams a bit more often, I liked the VODs that you remembered to save.

i have a bunch of recordings sitting here waiting for me to post them to own3d, I'm just lazy about it. twitch automatically saves streams though, so that's nice.

here's a vod with 2 jarman games:
http://www.own3d.tv/SmashGizmo#/watch/396205

at 1:07:30ish is the teamfight with probably my best peeling via ult ever.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17259 Posts
January 17 2012 08:12 GMT
#549
If only that corgi streamed more often so people could see the OP side of jarmander...
twitch.tv/cratonz
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
January 19 2012 05:19 GMT
#550
On January 17 2012 17:07 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2012 13:48 warscythes wrote:
On January 17 2012 13:44 Mogwai wrote:
i just disagree that mana was a glaring weakness for jarman. there were times I was sad due to mana issues, but they've tended to be fairly rare and thus, while I'm sure I'll have a lot more gas in the tank to cast spells now, I don't think that was really much of an issue for jarmang.

I agree that the numbers are pretty large and thus pretty significant at addressing mana issues, I just contest that mana issues were a big deal for him.


Fair enough.

By the way I wish you would record your streams a bit more often, I liked the VODs that you remembered to save.

i have a bunch of recordings sitting here waiting for me to post them to own3d, I'm just lazy about it. twitch automatically saves streams though, so that's nice.

here's a vod with 2 jarman games:
http://www.own3d.tv/SmashGizmo#/watch/396205

at 1:07:30ish is the teamfight with probably my best peeling via ult ever.


this is my favorite post on teamliquid
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
January 29 2012 00:07 GMT
#551
Is Jarvan really bad against Chogath or do I just suck?
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
January 30 2012 15:02 GMT
#552
It's pretty much a free farm lane for both of them. It's really hard to kill cho after level 6, but since jarman can AoE clear almost as well as cho can, cho can't just push him onto his tower and destroy him the way he does to a lot of other champs. Cho probably has the post-6 edge in the lane, but it's pretty marginal and the lane is usually a draw or is decided by the jangler.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Jaso
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2147 Posts
January 31 2012 02:24 GMT
#553
So I played a ranked game at ~1450 elo today as Jarvan vs Rumble. Basically started null-magic mantle and bought a ton of HP pots while going HoG -> Philo -> Wriggle/Mercs. Oddly even though he was really strong about 15-20 minutes in I was doing huge damage to him and pretty much won the lane.

I thought Rumble was a better top lane than Jarvan - was this guy just really bad?
Also, is 2 gp5s a good idea, or would it be wiser to just go into Warmogs or something?
derp
warscythes
Profile Joined December 2011
365 Posts
January 31 2012 02:50 GMT
#554
On January 31 2012 11:24 Jaso wrote:
So I played a ranked game at ~1450 elo today as Jarvan vs Rumble. Basically started null-magic mantle and bought a ton of HP pots while going HoG -> Philo -> Wriggle/Mercs. Oddly even though he was really strong about 15-20 minutes in I was doing huge damage to him and pretty much won the lane.

I thought Rumble was a better top lane than Jarvan - was this guy just really bad?
Also, is 2 gp5s a good idea, or would it be wiser to just go into Warmogs or something?


Don't quote me on this but I think double gold/5 is not standard on Jarvan anymore unless you are forced to play passive because you lost the lane. IMO is probably better to just get some MR/lifesteal(wriggles), one gold/5, then brut.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17259 Posts
January 31 2012 05:56 GMT
#555
Lotta times you don't even get one gp10, let alone 2.
twitch.tv/cratonz
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
January 31 2012 06:01 GMT
#556
On January 31 2012 00:02 Mogwai wrote:
It's pretty much a free farm lane for both of them. It's really hard to kill cho after level 6, but since jarman can AoE clear almost as well as cho can, cho can't just push him onto his tower and destroy him the way he does to a lot of other champs. Cho probably has the post-6 edge in the lane, but it's pretty marginal and the lane is usually a draw or is decided by the jangler.

It depends what kind of runes Cho's running. If he has one of those 25 armor pages you're not gonna kill him, but if he's running anything but that after 6 you crush him. Of course, we're assuming you know you're up against Jarmander, so you're gonna see a 25+ armor page 99% of the time.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
January 31 2012 06:56 GMT
#557
On January 31 2012 00:02 Mogwai wrote:
It's pretty much a free farm lane for both of them. It's really hard to kill cho after level 6, but since jarman can AoE clear almost as well as cho can, cho can't just push him onto his tower and destroy him the way he does to a lot of other champs. Cho probably has the post-6 edge in the lane, but it's pretty marginal and the lane is usually a draw or is decided by the jangler.



Yeah, that was pretty much it. I out CS'd him but I just felt uaseless because I couldn't harras. That and armor pages make me sad.

-.-
Owned Noob
Profile Joined April 2010
United States731 Posts
February 04 2012 09:51 GMT
#558
who does jarvan lose to in lane? im seriously hard pressed to find an answer because even if you cant just fucking kill them, you just cs because your spells are retardly good at that too.
jaedong the man with the huge dong
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
February 04 2012 15:53 GMT
#559
On February 04 2012 18:51 Owned Noob wrote:
who does jarvan lose to in lane? im seriously hard pressed to find an answer because even if you cant just fucking kill them, you just cs because your spells are retardly good at that too.

Pantheon, Yorrick, Rumble, Riven
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Owned Noob
Profile Joined April 2010
United States731 Posts
February 04 2012 18:00 GMT
#560
so pretty much only the incredibly gay tops? though it does make sense why. ill keep that in mind
jaedong the man with the huge dong
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