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On September 02 2011 17:50 mufin wrote:
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle.
So you are saying that the only champs that should ever autoattack are:
Twitch (with Spray and Pray) 875
Kog'Maw (wth Bio-Arcane Barrage) 750
Tristana (Level 18) 712
Caitlyn 650
Annie 625
Anivia, Ashe, Zilean 600
Kennen 575
Possibly even less depending on where the cutoff between shit and good range is.
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AP Ez is more of a lategame monster than AD Ez imo, but he's useless early/midgame. You basically waste his early game dominance and have to farm hard for all the AP items you're gonna need for damage. Also, going AP means you're gonna be a lot more mana-hungry (shooting off Ws more often), and you more or less NEED to hit your ult or you're wasting a lot of your damage. AD Ez doesn't have that problem as much (although hitting your ult helps a ton + you need it to stack your passive), since the majority of his damage comes from Qs. If you miss it, then all of your damage is gonna come from Q/Lichbane procs, and at that point it would be better just to have gone AD.
edit: basically AD Ez has presence at all stages of the game, and is a more reliable source of damage than AP Ez. AP Ez needs lotsa farm and isn't good until lategame when he has Lichbane + some AP items. With AD Ez you can do good damage with just a Bruta+Sheen.
But this is all just my opinion, someone else can maybe shed some light on it better.
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United States47024 Posts
I don't even see how AP Ez is that much of a beast lategame. You have a lot of raw damage, but because your damage is split 50-50 between physical and magical, both %-pen items are awkward for you to buy, which means you'll be hard pressed to deal damage to targets thay build a moderate amount of both resistances.
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AP Ezreal can't farm for shit. Have to use Ulti for creepwaves constantly Q.Q
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On September 02 2011 17:50 mufin wrote:
ok someone explain to me in detail why ap ez isn't viable or dare i say better then ad?
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle. yea his passive gives AS but often times its not even worth the effort to maintain it and spamming essence flux on your allies drains mana fast. His Q seems to be the only real reason to go AD but the math is showing that AP Ezreal's Q is significantly better.
- The power of ap ezreal's Q comes from lich bane. For 3400 gold, lich bane's passive turns ezreals ap ratio on his Q from .2 to a whopping 1.2 along with the 1.0 ad ratio! So the 80 ap from the lich bane adds 96 damage to his Q which is slightly less then a fully stacked bloodthirster (3000g) and scales with his w, and e. It's also worth noting that sheen builds into a lich bane so you can still enjoy the double base damage on your Q in the early-mid game. Its not uncommon for AP Ezreal Q to be hitting upwards of 1-1.2k in the late game. You get twice as much flat AP for your money than flat AD, not even counting the +30% from deathcap.
-And now you have 4 spammable abilities that all scale off AP. Not to mention the 0.9 ap ratio on his ultimate which already has an absurdly high base damage. As AP, having your ultimate hit 2-3+ people for 1200 dmg each in a 5v5 can wildly swing a battle in your favor especially if they hit the carries in the back. Essence flux is basically ezreal's ult only it does about 3/4 the dmg and has limited range (100 less then his Q according to lolwiki).
- and yea i understand mana could be an issue but if your Q is already hitting twice as hard as the AD version, theirs no reason to use any of your other abilities until a team fight. mana problem solved...
thoughts, opinions? i really want to know why despite all this, AD is considered without any doubt to be better then AP.
Since the change with an AD ratio to the ultimate, there's no point of playing AP.
Even if you bring back everything ez had at his release making him an AP beast, he would be outdated by current casters like Brand or Orianna.
Think about it, you are a caster with no ability to farm, with only a 10s ability + Ultimate to do any damage before lichbane, and most of the time you will get beaten in midlane by the other caster.
The amount of concession you make to have a average lategame with deathcap + lichbane ( almost 9k gold to get before you're worth anything ) is way too huge to justify going AP as a serious build.
Ezreal is a carry AD now, get over it. :/
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On September 02 2011 23:45 TheYango wrote:
I don't even see how AP Ez is that much of a beast lategame. You have a lot of raw damage, but because your damage is split 50-50 between physical and magical, both %-pen items are awkward for you to buy, which means you'll be hard pressed to deal damage to targets thay build a moderate amount of both resistances.
I actually didn't even consider that Q does physical damage, totally slipped my mind. So yeah, another reason not to go AP Ez. Although I think if you did go AP, you would go Void Staff 100%. His ult is a hugeee nuke when you go AP, I don't think it'd be an awkward choice. And I think most squisies wouldn't get enough armor for your Q + Lichbane proc damage to be neglible. Tanks generally aren't gonna be taken down fast by you regardless, but I feel like if you're in lategame and you're fairly heavily itemized, you'd still have enough damage to do so with Q spam + the occasional W.
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AD Ezreal is currently better than AP Ezreal because AD can actually do things early and mid game (when the game is usually decided). There are plenty of champions that are "good" when they have nearly maxed out items; hybrid Ezreal is a beast with max items as well.
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Between gunblade and bloodthister, I would actually take gunblade on ezreal.
Just a thought.
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On September 02 2011 18:47 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 17:50 mufin wrote:
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle. So you are saying that the only champs that should ever autoattack are: Twitch (with Spray and Pray) 875 Kog'Maw (wth Bio-Arcane Barrage) 750 Tristana (Level 18) 712 Caitlyn 650 Annie 625 Anivia, Ashe, Zilean 600 Kennen 575 Possibly even less depending on where the cutoff between shit and good range is.
for an AD carry, range is EVERYTHING unless you have absurd amounts of utility which ez does not.
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On September 03 2011 02:02 Juicyfruit wrote:
Between gunblade and bloodthister, I would actually take gunblade on ezreal.
Just a thought.
interesting..the early slow on any champ seems to be killer. will have to try this!
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On September 03 2011 04:26 mufin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 18:47 spinesheath wrote:On September 02 2011 17:50 mufin wrote:
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle. So you are saying that the only champs that should ever autoattack are: Twitch (with Spray and Pray) 875 Kog'Maw (wth Bio-Arcane Barrage) 750 Tristana (Level 18) 712 Caitlyn 650 Annie 625 Anivia, Ashe, Zilean 600 Kennen 575 Possibly even less depending on where the cutoff between shit and good range is. for an AD carry, range is EVERYTHING unless you have absurd amounts of utility which ez does not.
You claim that Vayne, MF, Corki, Sivir and Teemo are absolutely worthless because their autoattack range "is shit". All of those don't have better ways to stay safe while autoattacking than Ezreal. They don't even have reliable long range spell damage, except for Corki. Those champs must be REALLY bad.
If that alone is not enough of a reason for you to withdraw that statement I have nothing to add.
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To be fair Ez's only utility is W.
To be fair saying Ez shouldn't auto-attack is misguided.
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On September 03 2011 07:06 Lanzoma wrote:
To be fair Ez's only utility is W.
To be fair saying Ez shouldn't auto-attack is misguided.
I have no idea why he even brought up utility.
A ranged DPS has to be able to do 2 things:
- stay alive
- deal damage
Ezreal does both of these pretty decently.
The more utility you see on a ranged DPS, the more those main aspects suffer and you have to compensate for them one way or another.
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On September 03 2011 07:24 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 07:06 Lanzoma wrote:
To be fair Ez's only utility is W.
To be fair saying Ez shouldn't auto-attack is misguided. I have no idea why he even brought up utility. A ranged DPS has to be able to do 2 things: - stay alive - deal damage Ezreal does both of these pretty decently. The more utility you see on a ranged DPS, the more those main aspects suffer and you have to compensate for them one way or another.
In my 250-game-ish experience, ranged DPS (and probably squishier melee ones) probably gain both things you need
- staying alive
- dealing damage
by auto-attacking. I just don't see how else you could do it. I mean lifesteal is a great stat to have, right and you only trigger it from auto-attacking. And your last point about how you HAVE to compensate about SOMETHING sooner or later is probably as good an explanation as they get.
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by auto-attacking. I just don't see how else you could do it. I mean lifesteal is a great stat to have, right and you only trigger it from auto-attacking.
Ez gets on-hits from his Q, but that's beside the point.
If you want utility just take exhaust. It's like that one guy who said he built Atmog's on Vayne because he was having trouble staying alive against the bumrushing anti-carries, and the solution was to take exhaust instead of spending 5k gold.
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On September 03 2011 02:02 Juicyfruit wrote:
Between gunblade and bloodthister, I would actually take gunblade on ezreal.
Just a thought.
I've tried going Gunblade on Ez(in fact I have a post earlier in this thread about it). I just feel like BF sword is an easier goal to reach and provides instant results (unlike Bilgewater unless you can get someone to 1v1 you). Something like Manamune/Gunblade/Triforce is a very strong hybrid-ish build but almost impossible to farm without becoming irrelevant.
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I dont play ez first but I really wonder about the ap vs ad thing here.
AD camp:
-better laneing phase
-better midgame
-better farm
AP camp:
-better AoE
-better lategame presence
then why not building him straightup hybrind leaning towards AP endgame?
going sth like flat AD marks and AP lvl glyphs, building sheen->gunblade->lichbane/deathcap->lichbane/deathcap and banshees if needed somewhere seams very reasonable according to your standpoints and his new doublescaling on ultimate.
If you worry about tanky-dps stacking then just dont pick him. Like you wouldnt pick akali for the same reason.
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On September 03 2011 08:17 ArC_man wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 02:02 Juicyfruit wrote:
Between gunblade and bloodthister, I would actually take gunblade on ezreal.
Just a thought. I've tried going Gunblade on Ez(in fact I have a post earlier in this thread about it). I just feel like BF sword is an easier goal to reach and provides instant results (unlike Bilgewater unless you can get someone to 1v1 you). Something like Manamune/Gunblade/Triforce is a very strong hybrid-ish build but almost impossible to farm without becoming irrelevant.
Bilgewater cutlass is "alright" in that the stats are nice for the cost and the slow is useful vs people jumping on you (e.g. Jax).
I can see how the transition from cutlass to gunblade would be very uncomfortable though.
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On September 03 2011 06:44 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 04:26 mufin wrote:On September 02 2011 18:47 spinesheath wrote:On September 02 2011 17:50 mufin wrote:
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle. So you are saying that the only champs that should ever autoattack are: Twitch (with Spray and Pray) 875 Kog'Maw (wth Bio-Arcane Barrage) 750 Tristana (Level 18) 712 Caitlyn 650 Annie 625 Anivia, Ashe, Zilean 600 Kennen 575 Possibly even less depending on where the cutoff between shit and good range is. for an AD carry, range is EVERYTHING unless you have absurd amounts of utility which ez does not. You claim that Vayne, MF, Corki, Sivir and Teemo are absolutely worthless because their autoattack range "is shit". All of those don't have better ways to stay safe while autoattacking than Ezreal. They don't even have reliable long range spell damage, except for Corki. Those champs must be REALLY bad. If that alone is not enough of a reason for you to withdraw that statement I have nothing to add.
compared to caitlyn, trist, kog i would say so.
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On September 03 2011 08:36 clickrush wrote:
I dont play ez first but I really wonder about the ap vs ad thing here.
AD camp:
-better laneing phase
-better midgame
-better farm
AP camp:
-better AoE
-better lategame presence
then why not building him straightup hybrind leaning towards AP endgame?
going sth like flat AD marks and AP lvl glyphs, building sheen->gunblade->lichbane/deathcap->lichbane/deathcap and banshees if needed somewhere seams very reasonable according to your standpoints and his new doublescaling on ultimate.
If you worry about tanky-dps stacking then just dont pick him. Like you wouldnt pick akali for the same reason.
I'm not even sure I'd give AP ez the definitive 'better lategame presence' except in very lengthy games with extreme farm so the Lichbane Qs start to catch up to what AD Ez has been doing all game long, and will still be doing with equal farm(that he gets easier, because he is a presence the entire game and cs's effortlessly).
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EPT
