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Hi, Neo asked me to write an Ez guide so here I am. Ez is a highly effective ranged carry in solo q due to his high mobility and good poke, so he is less team-dependent than other ranged carries. He's a hightier AD carry, whereas AP builds are pretty much a joke. With that said, here's my AD Ez build.
Summoners
You have 4 options here; let's start with the mobility options:
Ghost vs. Flash - For ranged DPS, I have a huge preference to run Ghost, since sustained mobility is better for sustained dps (AD carries). Ez also has a built-in Flash on a 10s reducible CD, so the extra Flash is useful if you find yourself in a really bad situation. Also, ever since the Flash nerf, I've found I couldn't tower dive for the kill anyway anymore, so I've switched off to
Ignite - Ez shines the most in midgame, and Ignite is just the best way to capitalize on that. I run Ghost/Ignite myself, but I'm sure Flash/Ignite is strong too. I've found that before the Flash nerf, I'd have to tower dive and Flash away to survive to get a kill, but with Ignite, I never have to tower dive in the first place. The downside is it lacks the utility of Flash later on in the game, when you need it to survive team fights.
Cleanse - the option that I personally never run, but would do extremely well against certain matchups. Cleanse is only useful in ranked play when you know what you're up against because it has no utility against certain lineups, and massive utility in others. If you count 4-5 cleansable hard cc, cleanse is a good option.
Masteries
Currently I run 2/7/21. Key points are the ever-so-popular SoS, and the Utility tree is pretty obvious. The last 2 points you can throw wherever you want; I like to throw them into Critical Strike because I rightclick people a lot when I'm laning, and one crit almost guarantees a lane advantage.
Runes
Neo gives me shit for doing mixed runes, but I think my rune builds are superior to doing 1 stat/color. Here goes
Reds: Armor Pen (I think xpecial may do ad/lvl, but I'm not about to shell out the IP to test that out)
Yellows: Scaling Mp5s
Blues: 3 Scaling Mp5s, 6 Scaling MRs
Quints: 1-2 Flat AD, 1-2 Health Quints
This build lets you play pretty aggressively early in lane and scales well into late game. I only run enough Mp5s so that I have just enough mana to keep me running; mana is a stat that's only useful when you have none, so I only keep enough to keep from running dry. If you feel that your playstyle is more mana-hungry, then don't hesitate to adjust accordingly. The Flat AD/Health Quint mixture is to give you an edge over your lane opponent. Just a note: Flat HP/AD don't scale well at all, so feel free to run Armor Pen instead if you don't feel confident in your laning skills.
Item Build
The way I choose how to build items can be pretty complicated. I'll lay it all out for you for the tryhards out there, but if you're not that tryhard, just do Blade --> Boots --> Sheen --> CDR Boots --> Bloodthirster --> Trinity --> LW.
The detailed description:
1. Open Doran's Blade, unless I'm facing a Panth or strong AD laner + Shaco, in which case I open Shield.
2. Boots
3. Depending on how well I've farmed, I'll either get a Sheen or another Doran's Blade and a Long Sword. The main purpose of buying Sheen is that imba passive, so if I don't have enough to buy it all at once, I'll delay it with another Blade + Long Sword, which gives me the hitting power to win my lane some more (or lose less if I'm losing).
4. CDR Boots, 95% of the time. It's better to avoid getting CCed using positioning rather than relying on merc treads. CDR Boots let you throw out much more damage anyway, since Ez's dmg isn't as reliant on rightclicks.
5. Bloodthirster. The best item for flat AD. Lifesteal is also valid defense when you don't plan on getting mobbed by 5 people at once.
6. Finish Trinity - better proc, higher mobility, a slow when you don't have red. What's not to like?
After that, it's really situational depending on what occurs in a fight.
Getting crushed by their AP carry? Banshees
Getting jumped on by their WW/Malz? QSS
Not throwing out enough damage because their tanks are farmed? LW
Team worthless if you die first? GA
Skill Build
R>Q>E>W. Some ppl like to get an early point of W, but I find it mana-inefficient and it's only real advantage is its utility in teamfights and for adding another stack to your passive. I prefer getting E for the decreased CD, amplified when you land all your Qs so that it will have extremely short CD.
Playstyle
In lane, you'll have to judge for yourself whether you can play aggressively. Don't forget to factor in your ignite when estimating who has the upper hand. But really, Ezreal can play both passive or aggressive and still do well later on. Q is good for passively farming or harassing.
If you're farming well/got in an early kill, you can gank as soon as you hit Sheen. Otherwise, keep farming until you have a BF sword at least because Ezreal hits like a wimp if he's underfarmed.
In team fights, if their tanks are low mobility or underfarmed, you can just keep poking at them until they get a bit low. If they're too tanky for you to do any serious damage, then you'll have to rely on flanking, which is a risky maneuver but can pay off. Go around and try to find an opening to E onto their carry while not drawing much attention from the rest of their team. This isn't really optimal, but can be really effective if their tanks are really buff.
Also, try to open with your R so that you instantly have 5 stacks on your passive. Note that you can maintain/build stacks by using W on your teammates, while also increasing their attack speed to take down towers more quickly. Always try to maintain stacks, as Ezreal's passive is his steroid, and he still attacks relatively slow compared to some other carries.
So, that's all I can think of for now. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask here.
EDIT: Added more info on my rune choice because Neo qq at me.
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Joug es #2 Ezreal.
Chrispy es #1. Neo why ask this noob? Delete from friends.
I write my own guide.
JK this has Chrispy seal of approval(tm) good to me except I really like all blues mana regen /level (especially with incoming nerf) and brutalizer after sheen. I also don't get W until the very end. Also I go 21/8/1.
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On January 30 2011 09:34 Chrispy wrote:
Joug es #2 Ezreal.
Chrispy es #1. Neo why ask this noob? Delete from friends.
I write my own guide.
JK this has Chrispy seal of approval(tm) good to me except I really like all blues mana regen /level (especially with incoming nerf) and brutalizer after sheen. I also don't get W until the very end. Also I go 21/8/1.
maybe u liek more mp5 because he run meditation and you don't. huehue
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On January 30 2011 09:34 Chrispy wrote:
Joug es #2 Ezreal.
Chrispy es #1. Neo why ask this noob? Delete from friends.
I write my own guide.
JK this has Chrispy seal of approval(tm) good to me except I really like all blues mana regen /level (especially with incoming nerf) and brutalizer after sheen. I also don't get W until the very end. Also I go 21/8/1.
your seal of approval doesn't count, only skillshotdrizzle does
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Well I agree with Chrispy on Mp5 blues so you have mine and Chrispy's seal of approval.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 30 2011 09:34 Chrispy wrote:
Joug es #2 Ezreal.
Chrispy es #1. Neo why ask this noob? Delete from friends.
I write my own guide.
JK this has Chrispy seal of approval(tm) good to me except I really like all blues mana regen /level (especially with incoming nerf) and brutalizer after sheen. I also don't get W until the very end. Also I go 21/8/1.
You actually dodge me a ton so I don't get to see your Ez as much. Joug has my stamp of approval cause he's carried plenty. :[
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United States37500 Posts
Oh, and for the record. The "nerf" to mana regen runes aren't really nerfs. Riot will nerf runes but in turn they're buffing mana regen masteries (Meditation).
The idea is to equalize the mana regen for players under level 30, who don't have access to 9 tier 3 runes. For those of us with level 30 accounts for the past year, it shouldn't impact us.
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That sounds pretty hot. I hope I can get away with cutting even more mp5s from my build.
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On January 30 2011 14:20 Jougen wrote:
That sounds pretty hot. I hope I can get away with cutting even more mp5s from my build.
whoa. mindblown
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Well then 21 in utility it is.
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On January 30 2011 14:41 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 14:20 Jougen wrote:
That sounds pretty hot. I hope I can get away with cutting even more mp5s from my build. whoa. mindblown
wut? what's odd about it?
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Mixed runes sounds kinda odd to me. Why not have separate pages with either full AD quints or full HP, and switch it up depending on who it looks like you'll be laning against?
Also, does anyone know where I can find the math on AD vs ArPen runes- and where they equalize?
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On January 30 2011 16:08 Jougen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 14:41 HeavOnEarth wrote:On January 30 2011 14:20 Jougen wrote:
That sounds pretty hot. I hope I can get away with cutting even more mp5s from my build. whoa. mindblown wut? what's odd about it?
nothing, it's just i noticed how efficient that rune setup is, and how applicable it is to many other runes/champions.
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Full HP scales off really quickly and you don't hit as hard. I get a mixture just so you can play aggressively while not dying to somebody running ignite (I'm notorious for 100% fb rate vs ignite).
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im curious what you think about cdr as a stat on ezreal. he seems like he has plenty of skills that could benefit from capped cdr (cdr on q and e seem like they would be nice), and yet his q has a built in 'cdr' mechanism. Is it worth trying to hit 40% cdr?
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CDR is so sexy that's why every Ez gets cdr boots and it's why I get brutalizer. CDR is very very nice on Ez.
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Yes, CDR is pretty good on Ez. I used to open Brutalizer, but with the intro of CDR Boots I just replaced my boots of swiftness with those instead, then I cut Brutalizer so I can get bloodthirster more quickly. If your AP carry doesn't use mana, then you can jack blue for instant 40%. I wouldn't itemize for CDR past CDR boots and Bruta if you really like that item though.
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10/3/9 first time playing Ez with this build. Would have been 10/2/9 but I messed up top and Trundle killed me as I was getting away from my FIRST BLOOD ON SHEN
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CDR is especially good on ez because it synergizes with the cooldown bonus for hitting your Q, you get the % bonus and *then* the flat bonus, op
The five best ezreal items:
- Sheen
- Phage
- CDR boots
- BF sword
- last whisper
I usually end up just going dblade --> rushing triforce --> last whisper --> banshee's
I don't run mp5 runes because I simply don't need them after I buy sheen, if I weren't getting sheen in literally every game I play with ez I would run double probably
I've been trying 15/0/15 and really liking it
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First I'll preface by saying I'm pretty newb in LoL and I have no Dota/HoN experience to fall back on either.
I picked up Ezreal over the weekend and I've been having trouble being a productive team member with him. Specifically it seems like I need to retreat out of every confrontation I get in to unless it's a straight up style gank.
I think the reason I'm failing so miserably is because I don't 'get' Ezreal. I understand his flash is great and his Q skill is great, but it seems you only get to use those two skills of his effectively and the other two sit there.
So I guess my question is what is it that makes Ezreal great in your eyes, if you compare him to Corki or Trist they both have a 'close the gap fast' skill, but they also have a full skill set that seems to have better synergy than Ezreal's. I think if I can understand why people choose him over champs like corki and trist maybe it'll open my eyes to a play style I'm missing with him.
I've seen people play him on stream and they crush with him, so it's obviously a short-fall on my end.
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On February 01 2011 23:12 baneling wrote:
First I'll preface by saying I'm pretty newb in LoL and I have no Dota/HoN experience to fall back on either.
I picked up Ezreal over the weekend and I've been having trouble being a productive team member with him. Specifically it seems like I need to retreat out of every confrontation I get in to unless it's a straight up style gank.
I think the reason I'm failing so miserably is because I don't 'get' Ezreal. I understand his flash is great and his Q skill is great, but it seems you only get to use those two skills of his effectively and the other two sit there.
So I guess my question is what is it that makes Ezreal great in your eyes, if you compare him to Corki or Trist they both have a 'close the gap fast' skill, but they also have a full skill set that seems to have better synergy than Ezreal's. I think if I can understand why people choose him over champs like corki and trist maybe it'll open my eyes to a play style I'm missing with him.
I've seen people play him on stream and they crush with him, so it's obviously a short-fall on my end.
People play him because he is fun. I think most people would agree that Corki and Trist are better ranged carries.
Ez can hang in team fights fairly well but it takes a little bit to figure out how in my experience. I found that I started getting a real feel for how aggressive I can be in places by how much I can auto attack the enemy champions.
His Q is his bread and butter of course and the E sets him up easier Qs but make sure to drop the mind set that this is where ALL of your damage comes from. At 4-6, W will still do a good bit of damage and if you are trying to kill someone it is worth using. Beyond that, auto attack as much as you can and use your ult to get your passive stacked, clear creep waves far away, knock a champion down a little bit, etc.
I'm not an amazing player but this is what I've seen since I started playing him. Also, never play him with a kat on your team because that bitch will steal your penta.
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Main reason why you would pick Ez over Trist/Corki: Stronger during earlygame, especially in small skirmishes. Ability to snowball really hard. Better ganks because of the high mobility and global ult.
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Actually, in a straight up fight Trist/Corki can deal just as much, if not more, as Ezreal. He's picked because he's less team-dependent due to his higher mobility and poking ability. Trist and Corki have to get down and dirty to deal their damage, whereas Ezreal doesn't need to risk himself.
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That's why I said "small skirmishes". When it's only 2v2 or 3v3, there is much less CC to keep that melee off of you (Ez/Trist/Corki). Ez doesn't have much of a problem with that, he just kites from infinite range, forever.
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I'm trying to learn Ezreal and was curious about how this new Doran's change is going to affect him. Is it still worth it to buy a Doran's Blade first or should I be going for something else? Vampyric scepter, Long Sword, Sapphire Crystal (to rush Sheen), or maybe just go boots w/ pots?
Basically, with the Doran's change what do you guys think is the best starting item for Ez now?
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On February 03 2011 00:51 overt wrote:
I'm trying to learn Ezreal and was curious about how this new Doran's change is going to affect him. Is it still worth it to buy a Doran's Blade first or should I be going for something else? Vampyric scepter, Long Sword, Sapphire Crystal (to rush Sheen), or maybe just go boots w/ pots?
Basically, with the Doran's change what do you guys think is the best starting item for Ez now?
I was tempted to buy long sword+pot last night but didn't because the 100hp on him just seems monumental. I'm definitely looking to try it tonight but I think I'd get eaten by anyone that is playing a champ that Ez doesn't hard counter as soon as they notice my hp.
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Long sword ez, best ez.
Win lane by level 2 always except vs panth and maybe MF
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Doran's openings are still the strongest, don't let the patch fool you.
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Just played a couple of games with ez starting with D-blade to test and i was completly i don't think another opening is need i mean +9damage, 3% vamp and 100 hp... yea i know long S(+10) cheaper and can build into something, but still i like more my D-blade
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Dorans shield is where it's at on ranged carries.
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this sounds pretty cool. I am a decent ez player and Ive been running a pretty weird build lately. I go for wriggles and black cleaver. anything after is pretty situational. been running 10 / 0 in ranked games. but I will test this build out .. oh and I run mp5/lvl on seals and glyphs. apen on marks and quints
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On February 03 2011 05:33 Jougen wrote:
Doran's openings are still the strongest, don't let the patch fool you.
Ah, thanks for the input. I may still try to go Sapphire Crystal first for a few games and play a bit more passive to see how it goes. Won't be getting super early kills and won't get to push tower that much but I want to see how it plays out.
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I'm definitely not a fan of opening Sapphire Crystal, since it has almost 0 utility for you. One option would be to open Long Sword + 2 pots - if you stay in base for 10s after minions spawn, you'll have enough gold and can still walk to lane in time with no exp lost. The downside is your team will not be able to fight in the jungle. Long Sword + pot would still get crushed by a Doran's imo.
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Im opening Doran into Atack speed boots and from there if i get a couple of kills rush a BF if not get a couple more dorans, after i complete my Blood and go for shen then trynity force and from there last whisper or a mallet
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Manamune + GRB imoimoimo
Gonna make it fotm trollbuild, may need to do it on smurf account for an extra go-around on the lollercoaster.
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General guide I randomly wrote for someone on reddit in my break:
Ezreal is best at getting crazy dps early/mid game, as his late game is weak compared to the other AD carries. With this in mind, it's best to use a build that maximises his midgame dps.
Your main source of your damage is your q and you have a nice blink skill that can be used both offensively and defensively in your e. His w skill is kinda weak, thought useful as more spell spam for your sheen. His ulti again isn't great, though it is useful as a long range finisher when they are running away or to help in a bit in a fight when you are a long way away.
Masteries/Runes: I run 9/0/21 masteries, as the utility tree is amazing and lower summoner cds is too good to miss out on. I run 2 apen quints, 1 hp quint, apen reds, mp5/lvl seals, flat mresist blue. I run flash/ghost. Ghost is amazing for everything, and I feel like flash is too good not to have. Flash combined with e makes you very hard to kill and gives you great mobility.
Items: I feel doran’s shield is the best item for AD carries now, and thoroughly recommend it. Doran’s blade can be okay, but I’d only really go with it you are going in a dual lane with support healer. Following it up with sheen and then cdr boots is a must. Sheen is by far the best item for ezreal, as you starting putting out crazy damage with q+e+autoattacks and cdr boots are great for more q spam. Merc treads can also be viable if they have a lot of disables. Next I go for triforce and black cleaver, the order pretty much depends on how much gold I have when I’m going shopping. (ie can I pick up a bf sword or not). After finishing one or both of these survivability items the next step with banshees (unless they have like 0 disables). But, by now your hero is getting weaker anyway.
I don’t think manaume or chalice are worth it unless you aren’t lvl 30 or don’t have mp5/lvl yellows. Sheen+runes+masteries gives you plenty of mana.
doran’s shield->sheen->cdr boots->triforce/blackcleaver->finish both triforce/blackcleaver->banshees
Playstyle:
At level 1 just poke/farm with q, you can probably take lvl 1 fights as you have really good damage with your q if they are dumb enough to go for them. When you are lvl 2/3 and you have q and e you can start being really aggressive. Try to set up a position where you can blink e and hit them with it and then follow up with auto attacks and q. Keep being aggressive all game, at 6 you can get them low and then pick them off with his ulti when they are running away.
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On February 12 2011 03:01 Goshawk. wrote:
General guide I randomly wrote for someone on reddit in my break:
Ezreal is best at getting crazy dps early/mid game, as his late game is weak compared to the other AD carries. With this in mind, it's best to use a build that maximises his midgame dps.
Your main source of your damage is your q and you have a nice blink skill that can be used both offensively and defensively in your e. His w skill is kinda weak, thought useful as more spell spam for your sheen. His ulti again isn't great, though it is useful as a long range finisher when they are running away or to help in a bit in a fight when you are a long way away.
Masteries/Runes: I run 9/0/21 masteries, as the utility tree is amazing and lower summoner cds is too good to miss out on. I run 2 apen quints, 1 hp quint, apen reds, mp5/lvl seals, flat mresist blue. I run flash/ghost. Ghost is amazing for everything, and I feel like flash is too good not to have. Flash combined with e makes you very hard to kill and gives you great mobility.
Items: I feel doran’s shield is the best item for AD carries now, and thoroughly recommend it. Doran’s blade can be okay, but I’d only really go with it you are going in a dual lane with support healer. Following it up with sheen and then cdr boots is a must. Sheen is by far the best item for ezreal, as you starting putting out crazy damage with q+e+autoattacks and cdr boots are great for more q spam. Merc treads can also be viable if they have a lot of disables. Next I go for triforce and black cleaver, the order pretty much depends on how much gold I have when I’m going shopping. (ie can I pick up a bf sword or not). After finishing one or both of these survivability items the next step with banshees (unless they have like 0 disables). But, by now your hero is getting weaker anyway.
I don’t think manaume or chalice are worth it unless you aren’t lvl 30 or don’t have mp5/lvl yellows. Sheen+runes+masteries gives you plenty of mana.
doran’s shield->sheen->cdr boots->triforce/blackcleaver->finish both triforce/blackcleaver->banshees
Playstyle:
At level 1 just poke/farm with q, you can probably take lvl 1 fights as you have really good damage with your q if they are dumb enough to go for them. When you are lvl 2/3 and you have q and e you can start being really aggressive. Try to set up a position where you can blink e and hit them with it and then follow up with auto attacks and q. Keep being aggressive all game, at 6 you can get them low and then pick them off with his ulti when they are running away.
I think Dblade is the way to go on Ez unless you are going against someone that counters you really hard. I also always take ignite/flash now because I like guaranteeing that I get first blood in my lane. It also makes me a destroyer of vlads which I absolutely love.
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If you're going to open anything but dblade it should be rejuv bead + 3/3 pots or cloth + 5 pots. Regen trumps a lot of things early game.
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So I bought Ez today so I can actually learn how to play him and im wondering, how good is EZ compared to the other ranged carries after the W scaling buff? Also, what about Lantern on Ez? Also im not shure on whether to get bloodfirster or black cleaver as damage item besides trinity.
/Edit
Gah I just realized his ult received the scaling buff and not his W :/. Still is that buff any meaningful to his strength compared to the other ranged carries?
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
With a bloodthirster and an odd Doran's blade you have 109 bonus damage. Hell, let's even say you have Last Whisper and you have 150 bonus damage (huge). Now your ult turns from a 650 damage nuke to a 800 damage nuke which is nice but not really that significant. You still have 0 magic penetration after all.
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On March 05 2011 06:34 Woony wrote:
So I bought Ez today so I can actually learn how to play him and im wondering, how good is EZ compared to the other ranged carries after the W scaling buff? Also, what about Lantern on Ez? Also im not shure on whether to get bloodfirster or black cleaver as damage item besides trinity.
/Edit
Gah I just realized his ult received the scaling buff and not his W :/. Still is that buff any meaningful to his strength compared to the other ranged carries?
I thought it was gonna be awesome at first but then as Bluz just pointed out your ult is dealing magic damage and you don't have any magic pen. So the buff really is pretty minor.
Ez is good at early/mid game but not as good late game compared to other ranged carries. However, Ezreal is way more fun than most other ranged carries in the game.
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Yeah the buff doesn't matter, but w/e, ezreal's ult was good at every stage of the game anyway
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It's still a free 50-100 damage to multiple enemies. Not bad considering that he didn't lose anything for that.
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I've discovered the Optimized Ezreal Build.
Runes:
Apen - Red + Quints
Mp5/lvl - Blues + Yellow
Core:
Dblade x 1 (2 if the game is tough)
Merc Treads
Brutalizer
Bloodthirster
Attached: Exciting replay for evidence and some cool gameplay
HIGHLY Entertaining
http://www.mediafire.com/?jy2r75r53ibhw2c
Logic: Force enemy early game armor to:
1) Punish those who don't buy
2) Punish if they do buy because they forgo HP and MR
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Im going Dblad=>Boots=>atack speed boots=>Vamp Sep=>BF sword=>Blood=>Shen=>Triforce=>Last Whisper
Works like a charm if the ganking is brutal or your having trouble farming go for a bruta after Vamp
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On April 19 2011 14:10 checo wrote:
Im going Dblad=>Boots=>atack speed boots=>Vamp Sep=>BF sword=>Blood=>Shen=>Triforce=>Last Whisper
Works like a charm if the ganking is brutal or your having trouble farming go for a bruta after Vamp
Yeah thats my build too except I often get 2-3 Dorans early and sometimes an early sheen.
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Dblade > Brutalizer > boots > Wriggles > Triforce > Bloodthrister/Bveil/GA depending on situation
#1 Ez build.
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On April 19 2011 22:47 Senx wrote:
Dblade > Brutalizer > boots > Wriggles > Triforce > Bloodthrister/Bveil/GA depending on situation
#1 Ez build.
Meh why would you get Wriggles after the nerf? It was allready questionable before but now it's trash IMO. Also I don't think sheen/trinity before BF sword (or 3 dorans) is worth it.
I really like the Reginald approach to Ez he goes 21/0/9 full offensive runes and get's 2-3 dorans most of the time and dominates early game really hard.
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On April 19 2011 23:55 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 22:47 Senx wrote:
Dblade > Brutalizer > boots > Wriggles > Triforce > Bloodthrister/Bveil/GA depending on situation
#1 Ez build. Meh why would you get Wriggles after the nerf? It was allready questionable before but now it's trash IMO. Also I don't think sheen/trinity before BF sword (or 3 dorans) is worth it. I really like the Reginald approach to Ez he goes 21/0/9 full offensive runes and get's 2-3 dorans most of the time and dominates early game really hard.
The nerf? They buffed the lifesteal, made it slightly more expensive and changed the creep proc to magic dmg without the lifesteal, how is that really worse for ez?
It has really nice stats for its cost and helps you stay in lane forever + a ward. Its REAL
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United States47024 Posts
On April 20 2011 00:04 Senx wrote:
The nerf? They buffed the lifesteal, made it slightly more expensive and changed the creep proc to magic dmg without the lifesteal, how is that really worse for ez?
It has really nice stats for its cost and helps you stay in lane forever + a ward. Its REAL
DBlade stacking and Wriggle's are itemizing similar stats at rougly equivalent cost-effectiveness. Pre-patch, the chance to randomly chain-proc Wriggle's for effectively free health potions made a strong argument for Wriggle's being superior, but even with the lifesteal buff, they're now roughly equal.
The thing is, you're starting DBlade, and then getting Wriggle's--you're committing 2k gold to these mixed-utility laning items, which is quite simply overkill. IMO either start DBlade and stack a few more, or start with a Wriggle's part and build Wriggle's. Don't do BOTH--you're not Teemo, you are going to want to plan around having big items for midgame fights where you're strongest.
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Some discussion on runes? Regi runs ad/apen/aspd but some people run rather defensive runes (apen/mp5/mres/hp). Seems like the offensive setup helps you dominate early while the defensive is better mid/late.
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Don't follow Regi's Ez. His is super aggressive its just for him. Don't try to copy him lol
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On April 20 2011 09:01 Woony wrote:
Some discussion on runes? Regi runs ad/apen/aspd but some people run rather defensive runes (apen/mp5/mres/hp). Seems like the offensive setup helps you dominate early while the defensive is better mid/late.
Regi runs that for a lot of champs.
Most solid i've heard of is
apen red
mp5 yellow
flat mr blues
flat AD quints
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Why I think Wits End is a must on Ezreal.
- Ezreal has a great poke. Poking and making people lose mana is super leet.
- Great synergy with his passive.
- Ezreal will most of the time be focusing tanks. Wits End arguably counters tanks harder than MBR.
- You won't be buying Mercs on EZ so this is just a little bit more MR for you.
- I get it on Ezreal.
edit: Ok Chrispy gets it too but he's fknoob.
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On April 26 2011 07:10 HazMat wrote:
Why I think Wits End is a must on Ezreal.
- Ezreal has a great poke. Poking and making people lose mana is super leet.
- Great synergy with his passive.
- Ezreal will most of the time be focusing tanks. Wits End arguably counters tanks harder than MBR.
- You won't be buying Mercs on EZ so this is just a little bit more MR for you.
- I get it on Ezreal.
edit: Ok Chrispy gets it too but he's fknoob.
Will have to try Wit's End on Ezreal soon. Are you getting CDR boots or Zerkers because I actually don't mind getting mercs on Ezreal but maybe I'm just bad. ;x
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He gets zerks, look at the elo welfare thread for some replays of him playing ez on my account too.
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Small Ez buff this patch, ult now scales with both bonus AP and Ad.
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His Q gets +6 damage when you finish triforce, +5 damage with sheen. His R gets +27 and +23 damage respectively. Hooray?
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Since the patch buffs Hybrid Ez. Would it be possible to just rush both Occult and Soul Stealer? Run Cleanse and Ghost to keep stacks on them. I'm a nub as Ez because I just picked him up two days ago and only played about 5 games as him, not to mention he's the only Ranged DPS carry I've ever played. What are your thoughts to rushing two snowballs then getting a Triforce?
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it'll work fine vs really really bad players which you are probably up against atm if you are even considering that, so go ahead
but to make it work consistently you will need to get leviathan also before finishing your triforce
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On April 28 2011 02:40 Sabin010 wrote:
Since the patch buffs Hybrid Ez. Would it be possible to just rush both Occult and Soul Stealer? Run Cleanse and Ghost to keep stacks on them. I'm a nub as Ez because I just picked him up two days ago and only played about 5 games as him, not to mention he's the only Ranged DPS carry I've ever played. What are your thoughts to rushing two snowballs then getting a Triforce?
Sounds like it's time for me to smurf some TT games using this build. Probably get Zhonyas or IE depending on which stack I got first.
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On April 28 2011 03:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
it'll work fine vs really really bad players which you are probably up against atm if you are even considering that, so go ahead
but to make it work consistently you will need to get leviathan also before finishing your triforce
I was thinking get Occult, Soul Stealer, Cool down boots, Arch Angel's, Manamune and a Triforce
Edit: Yeah just go all out as a brave explorer.
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On April 28 2011 05:47 Sabin010 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 03:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
it'll work fine vs really really bad players which you are probably up against atm if you are even considering that, so go ahead
but to make it work consistently you will need to get leviathan also before finishing your triforce I was thinking get Occult, Soul Stealer, Cool down boots, Arch Angel's, Manamune and a Triforce
Its a "bravery" joke since you were already getting two snowball items and triforce. Just go full bravery and get all 3.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=166147
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I saw Chu go Gunblade and I thought he was either retarded or trolling, then I remembered that Ezreal got a nice hybrid buff and the Gunblade pickup started to make more sense. I looked over some of the top Ez's past games and none of them seem to be using Gunblade.
Since the last Ez change, I think Gunblade has actually become pretty good on Ez now. You get +75 damage on his Q, minor damage boosts to his E and W, and a nice +132(.5) damage on his ult along with a sweet active for someone who likes to kite and gank. Early game Bilgewater Cutlass active is a great ganking/1v1 tool in theory (50% slow for 3 seconds is pretty damn good).
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I really like this guide. its been really successful when i compare it to other builds. My score is great. its usually about 2:1 and i usually go mid. The problem though, is that i lost nearly all my games despite my successful runs. im really strong and i can chase squishy people efficiently and do good dps. But i feel there might be something wrong with my gameplay. 1 reoccuring problem is that my team usually is behind in turrets. 1 or 0 turrets down 20 minutes into the game and the other team might have 2 or 3. Ezreal is really easily killed if i get CCed and ganked so i fear that if i push turrets too hard, a jungler might come out from the bushes and wreck me.
halp t_t am i doing anything wrong? (im lv27 playing normal games)
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just buy wards so you know when to push/constantly look at the minimap/objectives.
last hit like crazy to get your farm up. playing EZ and not last hitting GOOD makes your dps much much lower. EZ imo is one of the harder AD carry in terms of farming.
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You can run this candy panda build.
http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=2616
With exhaust/flash you will have 2 flashes and a slow to stop a jungle ganker. But you shouldn't be pushing your turret tbh. Your lane is safest when you're around the middle if you're mid and lasthitting most creeps. Also, only use your Q to harass the enemy or to secure otherwise unobtainable farm
I'm not too sure on what other problems you might have though with your playstyle with the info you gave.
note- double buff is amazing on ezreal. unlimited Q's and amazing slow. You'll always want to have your team's red once midgame gets going as ezreal otherwise has no form of CC at all.
edit- mel_ee have you played ezreal lately? i think ever since his patch, his farming has gotten a lot easier since his attack animation isn't as clunky anymore
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Do yourself a favor though and take 15% MPen. You only drop 2% ASpd for 0.75% CDR and 15% MPen that works with W, E and R. Just one round of WER at lvl 18 deals (1200 + 1.0*bonus AD) magic damage.
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ya.. farming with EZ has been nice since the animation rework. cant wait for the upcoming EZ changes as promised by Ezreal himself.
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so recently, im just buying 2 wards and maybe some pots if i can when i go back to get sheen and boot. Result? Im dying less and im winning more. 
On July 28 2011 12:52 mel_ee wrote:
ya.. farming with EZ has been nice since the animation rework. cant wait for the upcoming EZ changes as promised by Ezreal himself.
wow i didnt know. im excited now
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Bump again!
I had trouble laning against tristana in mid. She outranges me and harasses me like a bitch with her ultimate (she didnt even go AP ffs). She also pushed a lot harder than me and i couldnt really do anything about my tower going down cause she rushed 3 dorans. What could I have done or should someone have tried ganking her? (If i think about it, my team sucked..)
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On July 28 2011 12:52 mel_ee wrote:
ya.. farming with EZ has been nice since the animation rework. cant wait for the upcoming EZ changes as promised by Ezreal himself.
Hope not, just because a champ is underplayed doesn't mean that Riot has to do something to him >.< So many good champs got destroyed just because riot thought they are bad (while in fact noone simply bothered to play them or they just didn't fit in the current metagame) so they buffed them, then it turns out they were never UP so they became OP and got nerfed into oblivion
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When do you prioritize getting sheen or brutalizer? Both seem like very good items but getting both would put you pretty far back from getting your BT right?
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Ok so I started playing Ez like a week ago and I am in love. What I don't get is his affair with Sheen; rather, I have no idea how Sheen works (even after reading online about it). If for instance, I use Q, it procs the Sheen buff. Only for 2 sec. Does that mean my autoattack will deal 100% of Ez's base dmg? Wouldn't it be better to get some other item and then get Trinity force later on? (if it ever gets to that point). It has only been a week so I am kinda a newb with Ez lol.
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sheen:
if you use an ability, your base damage adds to your next attack, as an on-hit effect
if you have an ability which procs on-hit effects (like Ezreal's Q), it will proc the sheen effect immediately on use.
Basicly if you buy a sheen early, it adds about +80-90 dmg to your Q, which is quite nice
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On August 26 2011 02:27 Ayush_SCtoss wrote:
Ok so I started playing Ez like a week ago and I am in love. What I don't get is his affair with Sheen; rather, I have no idea how Sheen works (even after reading online about it). If for instance, I use Q, it procs the Sheen buff. Only for 2 sec. Does that mean my autoattack will deal 100% of Ez's base dmg? Wouldn't it be better to get some other item and then get Trinity force later on? (if it ever gets to that point). It has only been a week so I am kinda a newb with Ez lol.
your Q uses the proc that it produces
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On August 26 2011 02:47 freelander wrote:
sheen:
if you use an ability, your base damage adds to your next attack, as an on-hit effect
if you have an ability which procs on-hit effects (like Ezreal's Q), it will proc the sheen effect immediately on use.
Basicly if you buy a sheen early, it adds about +80-90 dmg to your Q, which is quite nice
This is the simplest way to explain it. Early sheen boosts your damage by 80-90 since Mystic Shot applies on-hit effects such as the true damage+slow from red buff and the procs from items like Sheen/Phage.
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ok someone explain to me in detail why ap ez isn't viable or dare i say better then ad?
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle. yea his passive gives AS but often times its not even worth the effort to maintain it and spamming essence flux on your allies drains mana fast. His Q seems to be the only real reason to go AD but the math is showing that AP Ezreal's Q is significantly better.
- The power of ap ezreal's Q comes from lich bane. For 3400 gold, lich bane's passive turns ezreals ap ratio on his Q from .2 to a whopping 1.2 along with the 1.0 ad ratio! So the 80 ap from the lich bane adds 96 damage to his Q which is slightly less then a fully stacked bloodthirster (3000g) and scales with his w, and e. It's also worth noting that sheen builds into a lich bane so you can still enjoy the double base damage on your Q in the early-mid game. Its not uncommon for AP Ezreal Q to be hitting upwards of 1-1.2k in the late game. You get twice as much flat AP for your money than flat AD, not even counting the +30% from deathcap.
-And now you have 4 spammable abilities that all scale off AP. Not to mention the 0.9 ap ratio on his ultimate which already has an absurdly high base damage. As AP, having your ultimate hit 2-3+ people for 1200 dmg each in a 5v5 can wildly swing a battle in your favor especially if they hit the carries in the back. Essence flux is basically ezreal's ult only it does about 3/4 the dmg and has limited range (100 less then his Q according to lolwiki).
- and yea i understand mana could be an issue but if your Q is already hitting twice as hard as the AD version, theirs no reason to use any of your other abilities until a team fight. mana problem solved...
thoughts, opinions? i really want to know why despite all this, AD is considered without any doubt to be better then AP.
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Range on W sucks, E requires you to shift into the enemy team for the damage. He is a pretty crazy mofo with lichbane lategame though, I'll agree.
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On September 02 2011 17:50 mufin wrote:
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle.
So you are saying that the only champs that should ever autoattack are:
Twitch (with Spray and Pray) 875
Kog'Maw (wth Bio-Arcane Barrage) 750
Tristana (Level 18) 712
Caitlyn 650
Annie 625
Anivia, Ashe, Zilean 600
Kennen 575
Possibly even less depending on where the cutoff between shit and good range is.
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AP Ez is more of a lategame monster than AD Ez imo, but he's useless early/midgame. You basically waste his early game dominance and have to farm hard for all the AP items you're gonna need for damage. Also, going AP means you're gonna be a lot more mana-hungry (shooting off Ws more often), and you more or less NEED to hit your ult or you're wasting a lot of your damage. AD Ez doesn't have that problem as much (although hitting your ult helps a ton + you need it to stack your passive), since the majority of his damage comes from Qs. If you miss it, then all of your damage is gonna come from Q/Lichbane procs, and at that point it would be better just to have gone AD.
edit: basically AD Ez has presence at all stages of the game, and is a more reliable source of damage than AP Ez. AP Ez needs lotsa farm and isn't good until lategame when he has Lichbane + some AP items. With AD Ez you can do good damage with just a Bruta+Sheen.
But this is all just my opinion, someone else can maybe shed some light on it better.
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United States47024 Posts
I don't even see how AP Ez is that much of a beast lategame. You have a lot of raw damage, but because your damage is split 50-50 between physical and magical, both %-pen items are awkward for you to buy, which means you'll be hard pressed to deal damage to targets thay build a moderate amount of both resistances.
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AP Ezreal can't farm for shit. Have to use Ulti for creepwaves constantly Q.Q
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On September 02 2011 17:50 mufin wrote:
ok someone explain to me in detail why ap ez isn't viable or dare i say better then ad?
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle. yea his passive gives AS but often times its not even worth the effort to maintain it and spamming essence flux on your allies drains mana fast. His Q seems to be the only real reason to go AD but the math is showing that AP Ezreal's Q is significantly better.
- The power of ap ezreal's Q comes from lich bane. For 3400 gold, lich bane's passive turns ezreals ap ratio on his Q from .2 to a whopping 1.2 along with the 1.0 ad ratio! So the 80 ap from the lich bane adds 96 damage to his Q which is slightly less then a fully stacked bloodthirster (3000g) and scales with his w, and e. It's also worth noting that sheen builds into a lich bane so you can still enjoy the double base damage on your Q in the early-mid game. Its not uncommon for AP Ezreal Q to be hitting upwards of 1-1.2k in the late game. You get twice as much flat AP for your money than flat AD, not even counting the +30% from deathcap.
-And now you have 4 spammable abilities that all scale off AP. Not to mention the 0.9 ap ratio on his ultimate which already has an absurdly high base damage. As AP, having your ultimate hit 2-3+ people for 1200 dmg each in a 5v5 can wildly swing a battle in your favor especially if they hit the carries in the back. Essence flux is basically ezreal's ult only it does about 3/4 the dmg and has limited range (100 less then his Q according to lolwiki).
- and yea i understand mana could be an issue but if your Q is already hitting twice as hard as the AD version, theirs no reason to use any of your other abilities until a team fight. mana problem solved...
thoughts, opinions? i really want to know why despite all this, AD is considered without any doubt to be better then AP.
Since the change with an AD ratio to the ultimate, there's no point of playing AP.
Even if you bring back everything ez had at his release making him an AP beast, he would be outdated by current casters like Brand or Orianna.
Think about it, you are a caster with no ability to farm, with only a 10s ability + Ultimate to do any damage before lichbane, and most of the time you will get beaten in midlane by the other caster.
The amount of concession you make to have a average lategame with deathcap + lichbane ( almost 9k gold to get before you're worth anything ) is way too huge to justify going AP as a serious build.
Ezreal is a carry AD now, get over it. :/
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On September 02 2011 23:45 TheYango wrote:
I don't even see how AP Ez is that much of a beast lategame. You have a lot of raw damage, but because your damage is split 50-50 between physical and magical, both %-pen items are awkward for you to buy, which means you'll be hard pressed to deal damage to targets thay build a moderate amount of both resistances.
I actually didn't even consider that Q does physical damage, totally slipped my mind. So yeah, another reason not to go AP Ez. Although I think if you did go AP, you would go Void Staff 100%. His ult is a hugeee nuke when you go AP, I don't think it'd be an awkward choice. And I think most squisies wouldn't get enough armor for your Q + Lichbane proc damage to be neglible. Tanks generally aren't gonna be taken down fast by you regardless, but I feel like if you're in lategame and you're fairly heavily itemized, you'd still have enough damage to do so with Q spam + the occasional W.
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AD Ezreal is currently better than AP Ezreal because AD can actually do things early and mid game (when the game is usually decided). There are plenty of champions that are "good" when they have nearly maxed out items; hybrid Ezreal is a beast with max items as well.
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Between gunblade and bloodthister, I would actually take gunblade on ezreal.
Just a thought.
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On September 02 2011 18:47 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 17:50 mufin wrote:
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle. So you are saying that the only champs that should ever autoattack are: Twitch (with Spray and Pray) 875 Kog'Maw (wth Bio-Arcane Barrage) 750 Tristana (Level 18) 712 Caitlyn 650 Annie 625 Anivia, Ashe, Zilean 600 Kennen 575 Possibly even less depending on where the cutoff between shit and good range is.
for an AD carry, range is EVERYTHING unless you have absurd amounts of utility which ez does not.
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On September 03 2011 02:02 Juicyfruit wrote:
Between gunblade and bloodthister, I would actually take gunblade on ezreal.
Just a thought.
interesting..the early slow on any champ seems to be killer. will have to try this!
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On September 03 2011 04:26 mufin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 18:47 spinesheath wrote:On September 02 2011 17:50 mufin wrote:
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle. So you are saying that the only champs that should ever autoattack are: Twitch (with Spray and Pray) 875 Kog'Maw (wth Bio-Arcane Barrage) 750 Tristana (Level 18) 712 Caitlyn 650 Annie 625 Anivia, Ashe, Zilean 600 Kennen 575 Possibly even less depending on where the cutoff between shit and good range is. for an AD carry, range is EVERYTHING unless you have absurd amounts of utility which ez does not.
You claim that Vayne, MF, Corki, Sivir and Teemo are absolutely worthless because their autoattack range "is shit". All of those don't have better ways to stay safe while autoattacking than Ezreal. They don't even have reliable long range spell damage, except for Corki. Those champs must be REALLY bad.
If that alone is not enough of a reason for you to withdraw that statement I have nothing to add.
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To be fair Ez's only utility is W.
To be fair saying Ez shouldn't auto-attack is misguided.
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On September 03 2011 07:06 Lanzoma wrote:
To be fair Ez's only utility is W.
To be fair saying Ez shouldn't auto-attack is misguided.
I have no idea why he even brought up utility.
A ranged DPS has to be able to do 2 things:
- stay alive
- deal damage
Ezreal does both of these pretty decently.
The more utility you see on a ranged DPS, the more those main aspects suffer and you have to compensate for them one way or another.
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On September 03 2011 07:24 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 07:06 Lanzoma wrote:
To be fair Ez's only utility is W.
To be fair saying Ez shouldn't auto-attack is misguided. I have no idea why he even brought up utility. A ranged DPS has to be able to do 2 things: - stay alive - deal damage Ezreal does both of these pretty decently. The more utility you see on a ranged DPS, the more those main aspects suffer and you have to compensate for them one way or another.
In my 250-game-ish experience, ranged DPS (and probably squishier melee ones) probably gain both things you need
- staying alive
- dealing damage
by auto-attacking. I just don't see how else you could do it. I mean lifesteal is a great stat to have, right and you only trigger it from auto-attacking. And your last point about how you HAVE to compensate about SOMETHING sooner or later is probably as good an explanation as they get.
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by auto-attacking. I just don't see how else you could do it. I mean lifesteal is a great stat to have, right and you only trigger it from auto-attacking.
Ez gets on-hits from his Q, but that's beside the point.
If you want utility just take exhaust. It's like that one guy who said he built Atmog's on Vayne because he was having trouble staying alive against the bumrushing anti-carries, and the solution was to take exhaust instead of spending 5k gold.
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On September 03 2011 02:02 Juicyfruit wrote:
Between gunblade and bloodthister, I would actually take gunblade on ezreal.
Just a thought.
I've tried going Gunblade on Ez(in fact I have a post earlier in this thread about it). I just feel like BF sword is an easier goal to reach and provides instant results (unlike Bilgewater unless you can get someone to 1v1 you). Something like Manamune/Gunblade/Triforce is a very strong hybrid-ish build but almost impossible to farm without becoming irrelevant.
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I dont play ez first but I really wonder about the ap vs ad thing here.
AD camp:
-better laneing phase
-better midgame
-better farm
AP camp:
-better AoE
-better lategame presence
then why not building him straightup hybrind leaning towards AP endgame?
going sth like flat AD marks and AP lvl glyphs, building sheen->gunblade->lichbane/deathcap->lichbane/deathcap and banshees if needed somewhere seams very reasonable according to your standpoints and his new doublescaling on ultimate.
If you worry about tanky-dps stacking then just dont pick him. Like you wouldnt pick akali for the same reason.
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On September 03 2011 08:17 ArC_man wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 02:02 Juicyfruit wrote:
Between gunblade and bloodthister, I would actually take gunblade on ezreal.
Just a thought. I've tried going Gunblade on Ez(in fact I have a post earlier in this thread about it). I just feel like BF sword is an easier goal to reach and provides instant results (unlike Bilgewater unless you can get someone to 1v1 you). Something like Manamune/Gunblade/Triforce is a very strong hybrid-ish build but almost impossible to farm without becoming irrelevant.
Bilgewater cutlass is "alright" in that the stats are nice for the cost and the slow is useful vs people jumping on you (e.g. Jax).
I can see how the transition from cutlass to gunblade would be very uncomfortable though.
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On September 03 2011 06:44 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 04:26 mufin wrote:On September 02 2011 18:47 spinesheath wrote:On September 02 2011 17:50 mufin wrote:
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle. So you are saying that the only champs that should ever autoattack are: Twitch (with Spray and Pray) 875 Kog'Maw (wth Bio-Arcane Barrage) 750 Tristana (Level 18) 712 Caitlyn 650 Annie 625 Anivia, Ashe, Zilean 600 Kennen 575 Possibly even less depending on where the cutoff between shit and good range is. for an AD carry, range is EVERYTHING unless you have absurd amounts of utility which ez does not. You claim that Vayne, MF, Corki, Sivir and Teemo are absolutely worthless because their autoattack range "is shit". All of those don't have better ways to stay safe while autoattacking than Ezreal. They don't even have reliable long range spell damage, except for Corki. Those champs must be REALLY bad. If that alone is not enough of a reason for you to withdraw that statement I have nothing to add.
compared to caitlyn, trist, kog i would say so.
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On September 03 2011 08:36 clickrush wrote:
I dont play ez first but I really wonder about the ap vs ad thing here.
AD camp:
-better laneing phase
-better midgame
-better farm
AP camp:
-better AoE
-better lategame presence
then why not building him straightup hybrind leaning towards AP endgame?
going sth like flat AD marks and AP lvl glyphs, building sheen->gunblade->lichbane/deathcap->lichbane/deathcap and banshees if needed somewhere seams very reasonable according to your standpoints and his new doublescaling on ultimate.
If you worry about tanky-dps stacking then just dont pick him. Like you wouldnt pick akali for the same reason.
I'm not even sure I'd give AP ez the definitive 'better lategame presence' except in very lengthy games with extreme farm so the Lichbane Qs start to catch up to what AD Ez has been doing all game long, and will still be doing with equal farm(that he gets easier, because he is a presence the entire game and cs's effortlessly).
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I'm starting to think Ap Ez is legit. I'd win pretty much every game if my team didn't fucking scapegoat me.
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On September 03 2011 10:02 mufin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 06:44 spinesheath wrote:On September 03 2011 04:26 mufin wrote:On September 02 2011 18:47 spinesheath wrote:On September 02 2011 17:50 mufin wrote:
-Why the fuck do ppl want to auto attack with ezreal? his range is shit and puts him way too close to a battle for it to be worth the hassle. So you are saying that the only champs that should ever autoattack are: Twitch (with Spray and Pray) 875 Kog'Maw (wth Bio-Arcane Barrage) 750 Tristana (Level 18) 712 Caitlyn 650 Annie 625 Anivia, Ashe, Zilean 600 Kennen 575 Possibly even less depending on where the cutoff between shit and good range is. for an AD carry, range is EVERYTHING unless you have absurd amounts of utility which ez does not. You claim that Vayne, MF, Corki, Sivir and Teemo are absolutely worthless because their autoattack range "is shit". All of those don't have better ways to stay safe while autoattacking than Ezreal. They don't even have reliable long range spell damage, except for Corki. Those champs must be REALLY bad. If that alone is not enough of a reason for you to withdraw that statement I have nothing to add. compared to caitlyn, trist, kog i would say so.
ezreal's range isnt that bad, wtf u smoking and can i have some?
o.O
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On September 03 2011 08:36 clickrush wrote:
I dont play ez first but I really wonder about the ap vs ad thing here.
AD camp:
-better laneing phase
-better midgame
-better farm
AP camp:
-better AoE
-better lategame presence
then why not building him straightup hybrind leaning towards AP endgame?
going sth like flat AD marks and AP lvl glyphs, building sheen->gunblade->lichbane/deathcap->lichbane/deathcap and banshees if needed somewhere seams very reasonable according to your standpoints and his new doublescaling on ultimate.
If you worry about tanky-dps stacking then just dont pick him. Like you wouldnt pick akali for the same reason.
In theory it sound amazing.
In game, you end up being meh in both ap and ad side. Not worth it at all.
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On September 03 2011 08:36 clickrush wrote:
I dont play ez first but I really wonder about the ap vs ad thing here.
AD camp:
-better laneing phase
-better midgame
-better farm
AP camp:
-better AoE
-better lategame presence
then why not building him straightup hybrind leaning towards AP endgame?
going sth like flat AD marks and AP lvl glyphs, building sheen->gunblade->lichbane/deathcap->lichbane/deathcap and banshees if needed somewhere seams very reasonable according to your standpoints and his new doublescaling on ultimate.
If you worry about tanky-dps stacking then just dont pick him. Like you wouldnt pick akali for the same reason.
His Q doesn't proc spellvamp, otherwise Hybrid Ez would be really really good. (aka gunblade would turn your into Vladimir with more damage)
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On September 06 2011 00:18 Qualm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 08:36 clickrush wrote:
I dont play ez first but I really wonder about the ap vs ad thing here.
AD camp:
-better laneing phase
-better midgame
-better farm
AP camp:
-better AoE
-better lategame presence
then why not building him straightup hybrind leaning towards AP endgame?
going sth like flat AD marks and AP lvl glyphs, building sheen->gunblade->lichbane/deathcap->lichbane/deathcap and banshees if needed somewhere seams very reasonable according to your standpoints and his new doublescaling on ultimate.
If you worry about tanky-dps stacking then just dont pick him. Like you wouldnt pick akali for the same reason. His Q doesn't proc spellvamp, otherwise Hybrid Ez would be really really good. (aka gunblade would turn your into Vladimir with more damage)
Nvm...
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His Q does, however, apply lifesteal which makes ad that much better.
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get gunblade anyway. if it works on panth, it will work on ez even more. =P
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Woo free Ez week, time to finally try him out. Is the guide on here alright for a new player to him, or is there a Solomid/Leaguecraft one you'd recommend?
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I personally prefer running flash/clarity building boots/pots>dorans>sheen>phage>trinity>gunblade.
At this point add whatever is better against the team you are facing.
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I was under the impression that hybrid Ezreal isn't as good as AP or AD? How do you feel he does as a hybrid build?
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The guide here is good, you can also check out Chauster or CandyPanda's guide on Solomid. They all pretty much say the same thing (same core items, etc). If you're just starting out don't try any fancy shenanigans, just go for straight AD.
Please don't run clarity on Ezreal. Conserve your mana so you'll have enough for important engagements.
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Chauster was streaming quite a lot of AP ezreal play today, though he was playing normals and building a soulstealer ^_^ holy dang that dmg with 750 ap and lichbane
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On September 05 2011 10:35 HazMat wrote:
I'm starting to think Ap Ez is legit. I'd win pretty much every game if my team didn't fucking scapegoat me.
Ez is a brilliant AP for a decent player against poor opponents, ie trolling normals.
He doesn't have the range/cc/nuke to make him legit in real games though.
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Played Ezreal yesterday since he is in free week. Didn't do too bad, but not well enough.
I tried playing pure AD and it was pretty nice when the game was in your favor anyways. Last game I had a lot of trouble against a Caitlyn mid lane though, got zoned and harassed into oblivion :/
My biggest gripe is that his Q seems very narrow, so it's very easy to miss with it. I usually play Kennen and tried Ez because they're both kinda similar at parts. Still prefer Kennen because I somehow feel safer poking/harassing with him and I missed the stun.
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it's narrow, but also quite quick and has incredible range. AFAIK it's the longest basic poke ability outside of nid's spear.
I love playing him but it's really hard to do it for more than a couple of games. He's so dynamic, you have to be constantly re-positioning, dancing and landing repeatedly good skillshots, for really the whole game. The best feeling around is lining yourself up so you last hit a minion and your Q flies through where it just died and hits the guy hiding behind it who thought he was safe.
Out of interest, for more experienced players, when you build AD heavy (TF only for AP) do you use his W at all? If so, do you just use it for extra burst to nuke people, or fly it over a couple of team-mates for the buff?
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What should I get if i keep gettin hit hard by AD gankers ? What armor item works best for Ez? Hr.glass?
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 07 2011 18:37 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
it's narrow, but also quite quick and has incredible range. AFAIK it's the longest basic poke ability outside of nid's spear.
I love playing him but it's really hard to do it for more than a couple of games. He's so dynamic, you have to be constantly re-positioning, dancing and landing repeatedly good skillshots, for really the whole game. The best feeling around is lining yourself up so you last hit a minion and your Q flies through where it just died and hits the guy hiding behind it who thought he was safe.
Out of interest, for more experienced players, when you build AD heavy (TF only for AP) do you use his W at all? If so, do you just use it for extra burst to nuke people, or fly it over a couple of team-mates for the buff?
I very rarely use W, and often I don't level it untill quite late. Basically I use it purely to buff teammates in fights or when taking down a tower or something. The mana cost has ofcourse gone down so you're able to use it a bit more but with your only AP comming of TF it's just not worth the effort generally, unless you're facing a very AS heavy AD carry in which case the debuff can be usefull. I've been wanting to experiment with Ezreal mid starting out slightly AP'ish (perhaps with an early hextech and/or sheen, because that would make his W a pretty nice harassing tool. Have yet to do it tho =)
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Man Ez is fun. I dunno about viability, but there's nothing like landing Q + R + Autos, then E'ing onto someone and finishing them off. Skillshots: holy crap.
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Having at least 1 point in W is important for getting your passive stacked up.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 08 2011 12:08 Juicyfruit wrote:
Having at least 1 point in W is important for getting your passive stacked up.
For small skirmishes, sure. In teamfights you're going to instantly pick up 5 stacks off ulti, and you're hardly going to drop stacks in the middle of a fight.
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On September 08 2011 11:50 Requizen wrote:
Man Ez is fun. I dunno about viability, but there's nothing like landing Q + R + Autos, then E'ing onto someone and finishing them off. Skillshots: holy crap.
Yeah, I've been playing mostly Ashe since I started playing about two weeks ago, and Ezreal is just so much more fun than her.
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Nah, open with your ult. So long as you line up some minions = free five stacks. W is too pricey to be used at level 1 for just the damage it does + the stack.
Another interesting thought I had was that it might be interesting to try for a hitproc build on ez. Do your normal TF opening but then instead of going normal AD/AP build a wit's end and malady. Since q applies on hit effects it still scales with these two (giving a total of an extra 62 magic damage) and along with ez's incredible passive steroid gives you a whole lot of attack speed. (something like 195% at 5 stacks). This also makes your TF proc more reliably. I imagine this would be a good build if your team is AD heavy and you predict the enemies will build armor, since your bonus AD is mostly magic, and you shred magic resist. Kind of combines the sustain of an AD ez with the burst of an AP ez. I wanna give that a shot now 
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Having said that though, I think that he's a bit bland because, in most respects, anything he can do Cait can do as well, but better.
Auto Attacks: Ez is faster, Cait is longer ranged. Cait can get Zeal and PD to make up speed, Ez can't make up range.
Q: Skillshot poke. Ez does a bit more damage and is longer, Cait's can go through things and has a much wider range. I feel hers is more useful in situations and easier to land, and she doesn't suffer as much when she misses with it.
W: Ez's has it's use in teamfights, but not much else. Cait's can be used for mini-wards, zoning, and saving lives while running.
E: Mini-flash for both. Both do damage. Ez's can reduce the CD, so I guess his is better?
R: Ez's has a much longer range and can hit lots of targets. However, you can dodge it. With Cait's, you just pray someone gets in the way, because it's guaranteed to land.
Overall, I think Caitlyn is much stronger and just as fun, which kind of feels like a pity in some regards :/
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Ezreal is far more agile and mobile than cait. Caitlyn stands in the back and attack whatever she can. Ezreal can gun straight for their carries with a flank and is notoriously hard to catch.
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On September 08 2011 13:37 Requizen wrote:
Having said that though, I think that he's a bit bland because, in most respects, anything he can do Cait can do as well, but better.
Auto Attacks: Ez is faster, Cait is longer ranged. Cait can get Zeal and PD to make up speed, Ez can't make up range.
Q: Skillshot poke. Ez does a bit more damage and is longer, Cait's can go through things and has a much wider range. I feel hers is more useful in situations and easier to land, and she doesn't suffer as much when she misses with it.
W: Ez's has it's use in teamfights, but not much else. Cait's can be used for mini-wards, zoning, and saving lives while running.
E: Mini-flash for both. Both do damage. Ez's can reduce the CD, so I guess his is better?
R: Ez's has a much longer range and can hit lots of targets. However, you can dodge it. With Cait's, you just pray someone gets in the way, because it's guaranteed to land.
Overall, I think Caitlyn is much stronger and just as fun, which kind of feels like a pity in some regards :/
most of this is either debatable or true, except for q. cait suffers 100% more than ez if she misses, not only is mana cost higher, but the cd is much greater. ez is expected to miss some q's and it's considered no big deal, on the other hand ur a fknoob if u miss a cait q
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Ezreal's ult is way better than Cait's. Way too easy to block that sucker. Ezreal's just rips through the entire team and it isn't especially hard to hit if you're close (although it loses damage with more targets :/). In general, Ezreal can be an absolute prick in pretty much any circumstance.
Also Caitlyn's q becomes less useful as her autoattack gets better and the game goes on longer because she has to wind up (especially in teamfights, where using it at the wrong time is pretty suicidal). Ezreal never really has this problem, and his q applies on hit effects.
Also from a fun perspective, I think Ezreal is more enjoyable to play. There's only so much pleasure that can be gained from autoattacking all day long (and its not like either of Cait's escape mechanisms are hard to use either). Caitlyn is probably the least engaging ranged AD to play, even if she is quite good.
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I have limited experience with Caitlyn, but I find that Caitlyn becomes really underwhelming the longer the game goes. She's really strong early to mid, but her skills seem to become really weak in the lategame and she just becomes an auto-attacker. I find that Ezreal is different in that all of his skills continue to have around the same usefulness throughout the whole game, whereas Ashe starts off rather weak but becomes stronger as the game goes on.
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On September 08 2011 14:26 zer0das wrote:
Ezreal's ult is way better than Cait's. Way too easy to block that sucker. Ezreal's just rips through the entire team and it isn't especially hard to hit if you're close (although it loses damage with more targets :/). In general, Ezreal can be an absolute prick in pretty much any circumstance.
Also Caitlyn's q becomes less useful as her autoattack gets better and the game goes on longer because she has to wind up (especially in teamfights, where using it at the wrong time is pretty suicidal). Ezreal never really has this problem, and his q applies on hit effects.
Also from a fun perspective, I think Ezreal is more enjoyable to play. There's only so much pleasure that can be gained from autoattacking all day long (and its not like either of Cait's escape mechanisms are hard to use either). Caitlyn is probably the least engaging ranged AD to play, even if she is quite good.
Like I said though, Cait's R is guaranteed to hit at least something 100% of the time (unless it dies midflight or something). With Ez's, they can move out of the way without you knowing or you can even just completely whiff it.
I think they're both fun. Ez is much more involved, need to keep using your abilities 100% of the time. However, I feel Cait is more tactical. You need to control the area with Q, her huge auto range, and traps. You need to know when to use her abilities, where to place traps in a fight, and how to place yourself to get a constant stream of shots off, and hopefully ramp up Headshot on someone.
I guess it's a matter of opinion. I quite enjoy both, but probably won't get Ez once the free week is over. If you want to see a true "sit back and Auto" champ, I've got Tristana. She's cool too (backdooring towers all day err day), but not nearly as engaging as either of the other two.
I have limited experience with Caitlyn, but I find that Caitlyn becomes really underwhelming the longer the game goes. She's really strong early to mid, but her skills seem to become really weak in the lategame and she just becomes an auto-attacker. I find that Ezreal is different in that all of his skills continue to have around the same usefulness throughout the whole game, whereas Ashe starts off rather weak but becomes stronger as the game goes on.
That's mostly true. Cait isn't as great endgame as Ashe, but she feels way stronger than Ez in my opinion. her auto attacking is amazingly strong with good farm and building, and is what makes her amazing in late game scenarios. You keep enemies at super long range and tear them to shreds. Working with a good tank/tanky dps makes your life so easy.
Then again, that's how most ranged AD carries play. Ashe, Tristana, Caitlyn, Sivir, Teemo, Vayne... Corki and Ezreal really play more like mages than AD, in that they rely heavily on abilities rather than mostly AA. So it really is a gameplay style choice, in that if you enjoy that bursty AP style, you'll probably like Ez and Corki more than the "traditional" ranged ADs.
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I alway felt like EZ is extremely good late at taking out the other team carry, he wins the poke war and he can go for the kill the moment they are vulnerable.
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Ez has more burst than cait.
Ez has more mobility than cait.
Ez can 1n1 most ranged carries, mostly due to the nature of his builds (bruta!) and his trollolol burst.
(Also how can you dare saying Caits ult is stronger, trollolol. Also Ez can snipe minionwaves. Never forget the GP ulti factor.)
Cait is safer to play for newbs, that's actually all she has over ez. Oh, also Taric/Cait is more imba than Taric/Ez
Also, for ezreal builds:
2 Dblades, Brutalizer, Sheen, Serkers, BT, Triforce -> LW/Banshees/Another BT ez #1.
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On September 08 2011 14:35 koreasilver wrote:
I have limited experience with Caitlyn, but I find that Caitlyn becomes really underwhelming the longer the game goes. She's really strong early to mid, but her skills seem to become really weak in the lategame and she just becomes an auto-attacker. I find that Ezreal is different in that all of his skills continue to have around the same usefulness throughout the whole game, whereas Ashe starts off rather weak but becomes stronger as the game goes on.
She's amazing at being an autoattacker tho with such range.
Build cait with IE > PD > LW/another DP and she deal way more damage than ez will ever do. :/
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On September 08 2011 13:37 Requizen wrote:
Having said that though, I think that he's a bit bland because, in most respects, anything he can do Cait can do as well, but better.
Auto Attacks: Ez is faster, Cait is longer ranged. Cait can get Zeal and PD to make up speed, Ez can't make up range.
Q: Skillshot poke. Ez does a bit more damage and is longer, Cait's can go through things and has a much wider range. I feel hers is more useful in situations and easier to land, and she doesn't suffer as much when she misses with it.
W: Ez's has it's use in teamfights, but not much else. Cait's can be used for mini-wards, zoning, and saving lives while running.
E: Mini-flash for both. Both do damage. Ez's can reduce the CD, so I guess his is better?
R: Ez's has a much longer range and can hit lots of targets. However, you can dodge it. With Cait's, you just pray someone gets in the way, because it's guaranteed to land.
Overall, I think Caitlyn is much stronger and just as fun, which kind of feels like a pity in some regards :/
Ezreal's Q is 10x stronger then Cait's, it reduces the cooldown of everything, a unique and very strong ability. Not to mention it adds red/trinity slows to people at a incredible range, and deals more dmg. The slight aoe Cait has isn't worth that much.
Ezreal's W is shit, trap is better.
Ezreal's E is 10x better then Caitlyn's E due to the fact that its ALOT faster, easier to dodge stuff with it (ashe arrow) and its cooldown is lower and can be reduced for an even greater amount. It can also be usedt o jump over big pieces of wood/jungler/rocks whereas Cait can only do it to small bits.
Ezreal's R fills up his passive so easily it makes it more valuable to him than cait's ulti is to her.
The only reason Ezreal isn't played as much is because hes not a 'dumb' autoattacker, and loses some of his momentum lategame due to this fact.
I'm gonna start playing him though, he seems powerfull in my last few games. :3
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The only reason Ezreal isn't played as much is because hes not a 'dumb' autoattacker, and loses some of his momentum lategame due to this fact.
I'm pretty sure that's not why most pros don't play him. Trist, Cait and Ashe have better laning phases and just as good or better team fighting skills later in the game. Yeah his ult can hit everyone, but after that it's much harder to hit who you want with Q consistently in a team fight. He can do very well, but we'd see him more in pro games if he was better. He was only used in one game at MLG at all.
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Ashe has a worse laning phase.
Hmm, IMO (coming from someone who does not play ranged AD, granted), Cait is right now unbelievably strong and places a lot of her foot down on how this category plays out, especially due to the nature of bot lane AD FOTM. Her range simply makes it so many heroes are not really as viable in match, like Vayne (that range difference brutalizes her). If you see the Cait thread you'll get a bit of discussion about laners vs farmers there. To that end most players have gravitated toward ranged AD heroes that are consistently strong in lane, and have a certain set of range/farming capabilities. This unfortunately knocks out stuff like MF (who gets beat around and has issues farming) and to an extent Vayne (although she's still beloved for Taric Vayne).
Trist is favored although surprisingly underplayed because she has a lot of tools that make her very strong from start to finish - two escape mechanisms at level 6, or a double nuke at level 6. She farms extremely quickly, and has always been one of the most potent DPS heroes due to Q. She also gains gigantic range by the end of the game.
Ashe is favored because ECA is ridiculous and it's still fairly difficult to lose lanes outright with her, thanks to the defensive nature of Volley.
Ezreal is... in a bit of a strange spot. His viability has certainly increased since support heroes can no longer shut him down completely, but his harassing power is still greatly weakened by good players (who can dodge/stand behind creep), which makes it that much more difficult for him to maintain lane presence against heroes with better range. He's also a burst combo hero, which means any sort of disable shuts him down and stunts his combo, which unfortunately leaves him vulnerable.
In essence he's got sort of the same issue as Corki, who's at base another very strong (even arguably higher DPS potential) hero than most of the favored ranged AD these days, but simply struggles due to the design not being perfectly cut out for bot lane and such.
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that actually sums up what i've thought about corki and ezreal in bot lane pretty well. they're monster solo laners and 1v1'ers in lane, but aren't as strong in 2v2 situations somehow.
the reason trist isn't as popular imo is that the optimum skillbuild (as far as i've seen) is r>q>e>w with 1 in w at lvl 1, which is a bit contrary to how one would skill her in a solo lane (with variations on how much w and e are skilled, but q is almost always taken at like lvl 8 or later). q and e really maximize your safe farming and the two are good at outputting pretty decent dmg without being in dangerzone with w. Typically, i still end up seeing solo lane skillbuilds on trist where they're leveling w first when, lets face it, you're not really going to ever use it to harass.
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You guys are all crazy as hell if you think Ezreal is a better dps than Cait. Cait is the top solo q dps in the game right now and Ezreal is somewhere down by Kogmaw and Teemo.
The reason Cait stops using skills late game is because her passive and damage output with auto attack become so effective that she stops needing anything else but ult and her escape.
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Cait has no singular DPS steroid or anything. She simply appears to output more damage because her range allows her to get extra shots in, which is why she's absurd in the hands of capable players (see: general thread). You're on crack if you think in a standing fight she applies the most DPS though. Numerically Trist, Ezreal, Corki, and probably Kog all do much more damage than her. Not sure about Vayne but if nothing else Silver Bolt gives her more damage than Cait too, probably.
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On September 08 2011 22:05 barbsq wrote:
that actually sums up what i've thought about corki and ezreal in bot lane pretty well. they're monster solo laners and 1v1'ers in lane, but aren't as strong in 2v2 situations somehow.
the reason trist isn't as popular imo is that the optimum skillbuild (as far as i've seen) is r>q>e>w with 1 in w at lvl 1, which is a bit contrary to how one would skill her in a solo lane (with variations on how much w and e are skilled, but q is almost always taken at like lvl 8 or later). q and e really maximize your safe farming and the two are good at outputting pretty decent dmg without being in dangerzone with w. Typically, i still end up seeing solo lane skillbuilds on trist where they're leveling w first when, lets face it, you're not really going to ever use it to harass.
Bizarro, but I tended to use it when given favorable support matchup to bash Cait :p
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On September 08 2011 22:05 barbsq wrote:
that actually sums up what i've thought about corki and ezreal in bot lane pretty well. they're monster solo laners and 1v1'ers in lane, but aren't as strong in 2v2 situations somehow.
the reason trist isn't as popular imo is that the optimum skillbuild (as far as i've seen) is r>q>e>w with 1 in w at lvl 1, which is a bit contrary to how one would skill her in a solo lane (with variations on how much w and e are skilled, but q is almost always taken at like lvl 8 or later). q and e really maximize your safe farming and the two are good at outputting pretty decent dmg without being in dangerzone with w. Typically, i still end up seeing solo lane skillbuilds on trist where they're leveling w first when, lets face it, you're not really going to ever use it to harass.
I feel like you should still always level w because A) e pushes the wave, which is bad B) you always want w maxed because there's going to be that teamfight where you can quadra with it C) if you need q to farm you have bigger issues than your skill order.
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Just to add my $0.02:
Yeah, Cait's damage is probably straight up one of the lower ones for AD carries, but she can zone and kite like a monster if played right. Her strength in 1v1 isn't her ability to burst down the enemy, but to never be hit and land more autos than anyone else. To put it in WoW terms (because I'm a nerd), her "target dummy dps" is lower, but she's more practical.
Ez has the burst, and when given a chance to line it up can do great, terrible terrible damage with it. However, those times are few and far between thanks to his short AA range and Q getting blocked a lot.
For others, Trist has the same range strengths as Cait, but better AA, and slightly worse zoning. I feel they're about even. Corki's R get's blocked as often as Ez's Q, but the AoE on it means that's not always detrimental. Ashe's damage doesn't really matter since she can CC like a crazy person.
As to this:
that actually sums up what i've thought about corki and ezreal in bot lane pretty well. they're monster solo laners and 1v1'ers in lane, but aren't as strong in 2v2 situations somehow.
the reason trist isn't as popular imo is that the optimum skillbuild (as far as i've seen) is r>q>e>w with 1 in w at lvl 1, which is a bit contrary to how one would skill her in a solo lane (with variations on how much w and e are skilled, but q is almost always taken at like lvl 8 or later). q and e really maximize your safe farming and the two are good at outputting pretty decent dmg without being in dangerzone with w. Typically, i still end up seeing solo lane skillbuilds on trist where they're leveling w first when, lets face it, you're not really going to ever use it to harass.
Corki and Ez don't get as much out of having a support as any of the other AD carries. Having Taric or Alistar in front of Kog or Trist means they have a meat shield for their range. Other supports (Janna for example) give them much better escape options and provide the CC they lack.
For Corki and Ezreal, they have a short range, so they don't get as much out of a meatshield. Plus, their skillshots require them to be constantly moving around creeps, so they're more likely to get separated than Cait (Q goes through targets), Trist (AA only and E/R are targeted), or Ashe (Volley dominates lanes for the most part). And they have really good escapes, so they don't really need help in that area.
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Just to add to the Tristana discussion:
Max W early. You want Q maxed (or at least lvl 4ish) once you get your IE, before that (aka in lane), prioritizing E over Q is completely fine. Trist is a burst caster early game and once you pair her with a reliable stun (aka Taric/Alistar) you can W in, E/Auto in flight and R to finish people. You can't avoid pushing the lane anyway, so it pretty much means you have to push a lot to reset lane and threaten W/E/R combo.
If you think Cait has the highest raw dps out of all AD carries then please tell me about her hidden steroid.
Cait is "so insanely strong" because:
a) she punishes bad positioning the least of any AD carries midgame (late Trist takes that spot)
b) shes probably the strongest AD carry if behind in lane
c) she's not as reliant on her support as other AD carries (e.g. a bad stun from Taric that's baiting a bad W from Trist might lose you the lane right there.
For "raw damage output" Ez (and pretty much any AD carry besides Ashe) eats her all day every day.
Also... Ez #1 counter pick vs Morgana mid/top.
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edit: actually fuck this, i dont want to discuss trist skillbuilds in ezreal thread
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So the build I was talking about has now had a few days of refinement. I'm still not sure if it's amazing but it feels way better than a straight AD ez build.
You start with a normal bootsnpots opening into a trinity force, and then get a malady, wit's end and rageblade. Last item slot is the usual choice of more damage, more sustain or some health. I find this is a super versatile build, it really makes use of all ez's skills, it's effective in a lot more situations than straight AD and it's frightningly good at late game cleaning. Plus it's cheapish to get running compared to other builds. It still doesn't save the main problem I have going TF ez which is that there's a period where you are crazy weak even compared to other carries (around 7-12). You only start getting relevant once you have your TF fully up and running and another item as well.
Still, this one gives you a great mix of stats to work with and if you survive the first five seconds of a TF your damage ramps up to ridiculous levels with full stacks of RSF, guinsoo's and malady applied.
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Suggest 21/0/9.
Also, tried building Sheen first and no Doran's?
Just Crystal and 2 health pots in beginning.
I like it. And dominate.
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On September 08 2011 22:05 barbsq wrote:
that actually sums up what i've thought about corki and ezreal in bot lane pretty well. they're monster solo laners and 1v1'ers in lane, but aren't as strong in 2v2 situations somehow.
the reason trist isn't as popular imo is that the optimum skillbuild (as far as i've seen) is r>q>e>w with 1 in w at lvl 1, which is a bit contrary to how one would skill her in a solo lane (with variations on how much w and e are skilled, but q is almost always taken at like lvl 8 or later). q and e really maximize your safe farming and the two are good at outputting pretty decent dmg without being in dangerzone with w. Typically, i still end up seeing solo lane skillbuilds on trist where they're leveling w first when, lets face it, you're not really going to ever use it to harass.
I still do WEWEWR R>W>Q>E
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So um, I have had Ez for around two months now. Most of my games I own shit up in mid/bot but that is not the point. I have heard that late game, Mystic Shot can do 600dmg. How? I usually get Sheen after 2 Dblades and overall list of items I have late game are Triforce, Bloodthirster, Last Whisper, Infinity Edge, Boots (depends on the other team) and my 6th item, well, never had the chance to buy it but I would go for another IE (good choice?). And the damage I can produce with my Q is usually 400 :/
Also, on Ez, is having both Black Cleaver and LW beneficial?
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You need to go AP and have a Lich Bane to do that.
Black Cleaver and LW counteract each other's effectiveness. Pick one accordingly. If they have at least 1-2 armor stacking persons go for LW. If you think you can capitalize early and take objectives fast, rush BC somewhere in your progression towards triforce. BT is usually the more reliable BF Sword upgrade though.
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for uberqs try going gunblade+rageblade+deathcap+lichbane for all your exploding the fuck out of people needs. possibly not the best build though it is hella fun if you can actually farm it up. I find going for a fast rageblade + sheen makes you surprisingly good in that mid period where ez has a bit of trouble (like 6-12 or so)
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I'm mainly an Ez player (just too cool, and Haruhi~), and have some pretty good success. Usually bot with support, sometimes mid for kicks.
I've been building DBlade - Boots - Sheen - CDR boots - BT - TF - Defensive item. Running ArPen reds, armor yellows, flat CDR blues, health quints, standard AD offensive mastery, Ignite/Exhaust or Exhaust/Flash.
What does TL think of this? Notes on build?
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Do you really need CDR blues? Q reduces the CD on everything anyway. Everything else seems fine. Bot lane against some supports I would run MR blues. Also, while first blood summoners are funny, double flash is simply too strong to give up.
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On October 11 2011 04:41 dnastyx wrote:
Do you really need CDR blues? Q reduces the CD on everything anyway.
I don't play Ez so I have no idea whether it's worthwhile to run CDR blues or not, but Q's cooldown reduction makes CDR items/runes significantly stronger than they would be otherwise. Reducing 1 second off of a 3 second CD is better than reducing 1 second off of a 4 second CD by quite a lot.
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The flats (in my mind) are mostly for early game, where I feel weakest. I play aggressively with CDR blues, since I can spam Q so fast in those early fights. CDR is so strong on him, and if you're going against another AD, MR doesn't feel as important.
Ignite is so useful against many champs, I don't really like giving it up :\ But double flash over two walls is funny.
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On September 25 2011 17:14 Ayush_SCtoss wrote:
So um, I have had Ez for around two months now. Most of my games I own shit up in mid/bot but that is not the point. I have heard that late game, Mystic Shot can do 600dmg. How? I usually get Sheen after 2 Dblades and overall list of items I have late game are Triforce, Bloodthirster, Last Whisper, Infinity Edge, Boots (depends on the other team) and my 6th item, well, never had the chance to buy it but I would go for another IE (good choice?). And the damage I can produce with my Q is usually 400 :/
Also, on Ez, is having both Black Cleaver and LW beneficial?
I've had 450ish autoattack damage on Ez before (it's with Baron + pots and like 2 BTs) so it's not impossible to reach 600 damage with Ez's Q just going plain AD.
101.2 (base damage) + 151.8 (triforce proc) + 115 (Mystic shot base damage) = 368 Mystic Shot damage at level 18 with no bonus AD. To hit 600 you (only) need 232 bonus AD. With BT/IE/LW/Triforce you already have +240 bonus AD so your Q's should be 600+ damage. Of course if your Q hits a 200 armored target, the actual damage value it shows up will be less than 600.
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Black Cleaver is terrible, IE is bad.
3 thirsters, trinity and LW is the best build you can have.
Unless you're out of position/getting caught all the time in which case you might wanna get banshees.
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IE isn't bad if you can't get the farm to fill up BT. Gunblade is also an item I'd recommend later on, the sustain you can get from it during the later stages is very nice. Ult straight down mid lane for half your health lol.
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When you die n'revive you can charge about 20% of your bloodthirster by shooting an R.
Then its only 13 dmg away from IE with more usefull stats for his skillset. Critchance & damage arn't good enough to warrant risky autoattacks.
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On October 11 2011 19:20 Therealdevil wrote:
Black Cleaver is terrible, IE is bad.
3 thirsters, trinity and LW is the best build you can have.
Unless you're out of position/getting caught all the time in which case you might wanna get banshees.
Either one of those BTs should be an IE or all three should actually be Gunblades. The former is better auto-attack damage. The latter is better if you never auto-attack.
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1 gunblade okay but 3 is stupid cause they don't give more AD then a bloodthirster. And you'll barely need spellvamp because 1 Q gives back 400~ hp at that point.
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Brutalizer and lucidity really should be the first two items on Ez. Everything else I see is strictly bending over and conceding that you can't beat someone who scales harder than you anyways (stacking dblade, getting wriggles, and all that).
Anything less than 40% cdr isn't playing to Ezreal's strength. You need that 1.4second Q, which incidentally brings his E's cooldown to 4.2seconds. How you get that 40% cdr depends on you though; there are quite a few ways including runes, blue buff (unlikely), or soul shroud from your support (a very nice, seldomly explored option).
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I don't really like Brutalizer first on Ez. It's a good early/mid game item, but Ezreal really is more of a mid/late game champ, so it's very super situational to me. Like you said, CDR runes work nicely.
Sheen is the first item I get on him. It does more damage than Bruta (by a noticable amount) in the early game, and TriForce is pretty darn good on Ez.
1 gunblade okay but 3 is stupid cause they don't give more AD then a bloodthirster. And you'll barely need spellvamp because 1 Q gives back 400~ hp at that point.
He gets a decent amount from AP though. If you're spamming abilities, AP affects everything, AD only Q and R (and autos of course). AD scales harder, though. I'd agree, though. 1 Gunblade max.
You said earlier that you don't want to risk autos. That's kind of bad, I'd say. If you never auto, and only rely on abilities, you shouldn't be stacking BTs and instead go for hybrid build because you don't get anything for W and E out of AD or lifesteal. If you are stacking BTs, you almost need to auto to take advantage of all that AD you're getting. You'll be in range for autos later on, anyway, as you need to be to land E and W.
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There's no way sheen outdamages brutalizer in any sort of drawn out fight. It outbursts and for a single Q poke, sheen does more, but for straight up DPS in a teamfight sheen is kind of a joke in comparison since a CDR-capped ezreal is outputting those Q's as if they were autoattacks, which is what made Ezreal godly in the first place.
Nowadays people rarely give Ezreal blue buff whereas previously it was quite common to see double-buffed Ezreal destroying EVERYTHING by himself in early-mid game teamfights. You really need to build that CDR and brutalizer and cdr boots are still the only two items that make any sense to build on him.
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ezreal is insanely strong earlygame, debatable with cait, but in the heyday of solo mid ranged ad, he was the classic kill some1 at lvl 2 sort of champ
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Sheen is better as a lane item over Bruta. The only thing you're going to hit a smart opponent with early on is Q, and Sheen makes it hit harder than Bruta in lane. You can go Bruta next, but before Sheen is a bad idea. Pure damage is mathematically higher than armor pen for Mystic Shot, and I find CDR from Boots and Runes to be enough.
Personally, I'd rather go Sheen > Boots > BT > etc than having to stop for a Brutalizer in the middle, though.
Once you get to the "drawn out teamfight" stage, what you go for early doesn't generally matter as your damage is indicated by what you chose between things like BT/Gunblade/TF/IE/LW/whatever.
ezreal is insanely strong earlygame, debatable with cait, but in the heyday of solo mid ranged ad, he was the classic kill some1 at lvl 2 sort of champ
I still try to play him mid in all my normals, he wrecks most champs there :D
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How is a smart opponent going to let you hit him with Q? That's the opposite of what smart opponents does. Smart opponents will not get hit by Q because they know how to juke it or hide behind minions, and force you to exchange autoattacks with him because you built that sheen which doesn't help your autoattacks one bit.
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I should have rephrased that. A smart player won't let you land Q, but Q is the thing you have the highest chance of landing against a smart player. Going in for autos for harass isn't smart thanks to short range, and E isn't a viable harass tool. And even in a straight trade, Q is your hardest hitting tool, Sheen makes it hit harder.
The other thing is, if you're getting pushed back (which you might against Kog, Cait... maybe Vayne), Q becomes your last hitting tool unless you're under tower, and Sheen Q lets you hit harder than Bruta Q. Buta autos won't do you any good if you're zoned out where you can't use them at all.
Brutalizer is a viable pick, it offers most of the stats Ez wants, but I build Sheen first and build it every game. Bruta isn't always a good choice, you'll want Sheen pretty much 100% of your games.
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You are losing me even more.
Q has one of the lowest chance of landing vs a smart player because unless the Ezreal has any threat level to himself, he has no control of his position and therefore can't get any Q's. Buying sheen which automatically means that your ability to do damage is now funnelled into 1 skill entirely, which makes ezreal even easier to counter.
If you are last hitting at tower, how is a harder hitting Q suppose to make it better? If anything, you want that 25 extra AD from brut so that you can last hit creeps that have taken tower damage easier.
EDIT:
There's no such thing as "I get enough CDR with runes and CDR boots". Until you get 40%, it's not enough. The difference between 30% and 40% cdr on ezreal is
30% CDR: 1.8second Q
40% CDR: 1.4second Q
which is approximately 25% more Q's if you are straight up spamming them.
I only found good use out of sheen when I'm straight up owning my lane to the point where they already have to be so far from the creeps that I can zone them with my Q. This doesn't work unless they have reasons to keep their distance from you. The extra mana pool, Q poke, and burst actually comes in handy in this case.
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whats wrong with ezreal's auto range
granted its not the best, but its not so atrocious that you 'cannot' hit ppl with them
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Looking at lane opponents, the big ones now are Cait, Kog, and Vayne. Ashe too, but I've never really had trouble with her, so I'll leave that out right now.
Against Cait, you can't charge in because she'll just get 2-3 autos on you before you're in range. It also leaves you very open to trap Q. The only ability you can use to exchange pokes with her is Q. A Sheen Q will make her backpedal and think twice more than a Bruta Q.
Against Kog, you can get in when his W is not up, but when it is, you're putting yourself at a big risk. When I see him turn red, the only thing on my mind is to get out of his range, at which point the only thing I can reach him (and the minons) with is Q.
Against Vayne, once she gets a point in W, you don't want to trade autos with her. Maybe run in for one, then gtfo before that painful proc. Q lets you put on the pain even when you're not making exchanges like that.
As far as minions go, this is the scenario I'm thinking of. Let's say you're zoned out. Your support failed somehow, or it's Cait with her range, or ganks have been scaring you. The minions aren't under the tower because your opponent isn't pushing the lane and being smart, so you can't get last hits from autos without moving into that scary threat zone range.
What can you use to last hit in this situation? Q. Q lets you last hit when you shouldn't be able to, and remain safe while doing so. If your options are stay out and get no gold or fire Q in there and get gold, I'll go with the latter. Sheen makes your Q basically do more than half health to a minion, letting you stay completely safe while counter-pushing and farming.
Against opponents where you can safely get in and auto (hopefully with your passive up too), Bruta is probably better. But in the end, you want Sheen anyway and you might not want Bruta, so go for Sheen first.
Q is your swiss army knife. It does big damage, it lowers CDs, it procs on-hits. It is, for all intents and purposes, a massive auto at almost double your normal range. Sheen packs on so much more of a punch early on that it's not even funny. And it builds into nicer stuff later on.
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There's no such thing as "I get enough CDR with runes and CDR boots". Until you get 40%, it's not enough. The difference between 30% and 40% cdr on ezreal is
30% CDR: 1.8second Q
40% CDR: 1.4second Q
which is approximately 25% more Q's if you are straight up spamming them.
I only found good use out of sheen when I'm straight up owning my lane to the point where they already have to be so far from the creeps that I can zone them with my Q. This doesn't work unless they have reasons to keep their distance from you. The extra mana pool, Q poke, and burst actually comes in handy in this case.
That's kind of a logic dump. Saying "30% CDR is worthless because you can have more" is like saying "why only have 1 Bloodthirster when you can have 5 and get 5 times as much AD".
More is better, but not having max isn't world ending. You're balancing out stats. Bruta is nice early/mid game, but not super great later on, and Ghostblade isn't super great for late game Ezreal either. I'd rather not spend money on an item that will only benefit me to a point (DBlade nonwithstanding). The CDR remains nice later in the game, but in the end the AD and ArPen doesn't amount to much and you're saving a spot just for the extra 10% CDR, which isn't worth it.
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Sigh.... if you still don't understand the absurd synergy between ezreal and max CDR then I have nothing to say to you. For the price of 10% cdr you get about 25% more Q output straight up, and it simultaneously lets your W,E,R refresh faster by a WIDE margin; that 10% cdr gets you way more than 10% more use of your skill. If this efficiency is still too hard for you to grasp, then we are done here.
This is on top of having Q refresh faster automatically makes every point of AD you buy more efficient. If your build has 30% cdr and you aren`t buying a brutalizer, "what are you thinking?"
You are playing every single one of these matchups wrong and I recommend you change the way you view things bceause Ezreal is NOT suppose to be the weaker one in lane or else you should be playing a different champion. Every single one of these matchups sounds like you are losing, pretty much giving up freefarm and praying that they walk up to you for you to Q them in the face when they can simply be farming up a storm and roll you over because they're all late-game heroes and you are not.
Let me give you a simple example of why you are wrong: vs caitlyn, she's simply going to outpush you really really hard if you buy sheen. A caitlyn with BF sword vs ezreal with sheen... you are not going to be able to Q anything at all because there's always going to be a creepwave walking over you 24/7. With brutalizer you can last hit everything at your tower without expending mana and keep it somewhat in check due to actually having some AD and thus your DPS to the creepwave is much greater.
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you can hit caitlyn with W + sheen proced autoattack through the creeps..
though I also suggest brutalizer instead of sheen
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I have to disagree though. You are the only person I've seen who stresses that Brutalizer is like crack cocaine for Ezreal. Hell, many guides and pros don't even do CDR runes on him. Pretty much everyone, though, gets TF at one point or another, because early game Sheen makes your burst super strong and mid/late game TF is really damn good on Ez.
Let's do a little math. Over 10 seconds (pretty normal poke exchange time, maybe even a bit long):
Level 5 Ezreal (in lane, probably have gold for items at this point). Q has a 5 second CD. For argument's sake, say you have 9 flat CDR blues and CDR boots (bringing you to 20.85 CDR) and Sheen/Bruta. Not a perfect scenario, but an even one. Q is now at a 3.96 second CD for Sheen, 3.45 for Bruta. Assuming you hit each one, subtract a second from each, putting you at 2.96 for Sheen and 2.45 for Bruta.
With Brutalizer, your Autos do 84.2, with Sheen, 59.2. Attack Speed is .73984, so in 10 seconds you attack 7.39 or 7 times.
With Brutalizer, Q hits for 159.2. With Sheen, Q hits for 141.2, procs for 198.4. Since the CD for Q is longer than the ICD on Sheen, it procs every hit. With CDs as they are stated above, Bruta gets an extra Q over Sheen, so 4 Qs for Sheen and 5 for Brutalizer.
We'll not count E for right now, as it's unreliable to hit and will probably be saved for escape.
Assuming you hit every auto and Q:
Brutalizer damage is: 1385.4
Sheen damage is: 1406.4
Pretty darn close, Sheen pulling ahead, plus boosts your E, and is cheaper to boot. Plus extra mana means you can spam it a bit more. And since you're going to miss a few anyway, landing a Q with Sheen is much more devestating for them.
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As for matchups, I always assume worst case scenario. In game, I'm pretty good against everyone but Cait (her range is annoying), and last hitting isn't a problem. I'm just saying that in the worst case, Sheen is better, and math shows it's pretty damn good in the best case as well.
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Edit: I realize "training dummy dps" isn't perfect in accounting for variables, it is a good launching point for discussions like this.
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Again I don't play Ez so I'm not going to chime in on Ezreal-specific stuff like whether Brutalizer or Sheen is better, but as far as CDR goes, it gets more valuable as you get closer to 40% CDR.
For example: going from 0->10% CDR on a skill gets you an ~11% damage increase. Going from 30->40% gets you a ~17% damage increase. Stuff that gives you flat CDR on top of that makes this disparity significantly larger.
Comparing CDR to AD + lifesteal (as in, comparing CDR to Bloodthirsters) doesn't make sense because the stats don't scale the same way.
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On October 12 2011 03:18 Requizen wrote:
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Edit: I realize "training dummy dps" isn't perfect in accounting for variables, it is a good launching point for discussions like this.
Except you didn't even factor in the HUGE 15 armor pen from brutalizer, and you assumed that they'd be getting the items at level 5 which is nonsense (do we even play the same game? How can you possible imagine getting cdr boots + sheen/brut by level 5)
Furthermore, as you get lucidity boots and more AD, the damage tips further and further in favor of brutalizer. Your math would be very different if you tried to do it at level 9 and beyond, and actually used the right amounts of CDR.
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On October 12 2011 03:29 crate wrote:
Again I don't play Ez so I'm not going to chime in on Ezreal-specific stuff like whether Brutalizer or Sheen is better, but as far as CDR goes, it gets more valuable as you get closer to 40% CDR.
For example: going from 0->10% CDR on a 10-second CD skill gets you an ~11% damage increase. Going from 30->40% gets you a ~17% damage increase. Stuff that gives you flat CDR on top of that makes this disparity significantly larger.
Comparing CDR to AD + lifesteal (as in, comparing CDR to Bloodthirsters) doesn't make sense because the stats don't scale the same way.
Oh, there's no arguing CDR is amazing, but is it worth a slot for Brutalizer, a primarily early/mid game item, over any other item just because of the CDR it gives? As you move on, item slots become more and more valuable, and early items either get upgraded (Revolver -> Gunblade on Akali, for instance), or they get sold (Doran's items). Is it really worth getting Brutalizer for the window of the game that it's really strong then selling it later? Or is that 10% CDR worth keeping 20, 25, 30 minutes in?
I don't think so, but I could be wrong and I'm open to that.
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With 40% CDR, you shoot 8 Q's in 11 seconds.
With 30% CDR, you shoot 6 Q's in 11 seconds.
How much AD do you think you need to compensate for straight up 2 extra Q?
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On October 12 2011 03:33 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 03:18 Requizen wrote:
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Edit: I realize "training dummy dps" isn't perfect in accounting for variables, it is a good launching point for discussions like this. Except you didn't even factor in the HUGE 15 armor pen from brutalizer, and you assumed that they'd be getting the items at level 5 which is nonsense (do we even play the same game? How can you possible imagine getting cdr boots + sheen/brut by level 5) Furthermore, as you get lucidity boots and more AD, the damage tips further and further in favor of brutalizer. Your math would be very different if you tried to do it at level 9 and beyond, and actually used the right amounts of CDR.
Level 5 was just a point where I set the numbers, I even said it's not a perfect scenario in my post. That's how theory crafting works, you pick mirrored numbers for both sides and let it go.
15 ArPen is amazing, but that doesn't even break base armor for any champion by the time you can get it and, as Mogwai always tells me, the more armor they get, the worse flat AD becomes. As you level and get more base damage, the Sheen proc goes up as well. 47.2 + 3/level proc is nothing to scoff at, as the AD added by Brutalizer is only +25 and some ArPen. At level 18 (for argument's sake) that's a 98.2 damage proc, and if you upgrade to TF (which you probably will) it's a 147.3 damage proc every 2 seconds of fighting, which is pretty damn big, and also adds that damage to the pre-fight poke exchange where you can only shoot Qs until someone initiates. That, imo, adds up to more effectiveness than Bruta.
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Just saying, the best Ezreal in the world is probably Chauster. He goes Bruta before Sheen. He gets Phage before Sheen. Voyboy gets Bruta before Sheen too. CandyPanda also gets Brutalizer before Sheen.
The thing about Sheen is it has a nice enough passive but it only applies double damage to your base AD. It hits pretty hard early game but for sustained damage getting an early Bruta and then building into Bloodthirstier is better imo. Although I think Bruta into Sheen then BF sword item can work too I'd rather get my BT as soon as possible but I feel that the Brutalizer lets me punish people way harder early game than Sheen.
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Right except it doesn't make sense to set it at level 5... EVER ... because nobody farms up 2300gold by level 5 unless they're retardedly fed.
15 armor pen isn't a lot later on but it's a hell of a lot at level FIVE, which you yourself set. If you are going to set the level so low, then do the math right with all factors included.
You're going to compare trinity force to brutalizer now? Straight up? Really? lol. If you want to talk about cost efficiency, brutalizer + CDR boots + Bloodthister outdamages CDR boots + trinity force by an absurdly large amount.
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On October 12 2011 03:47 Juicyfruit wrote:
With 40% CDR, you shoot 8 Q's in 11 seconds.
With 30% CDR, you shoot 6 Q's in 11 seconds.
How much AD do you think you need to compensate for straight up 2 extra Q?
Assuming you're talking about level 18, let's say (and again for argument's sake), that you only have that CDR and the other items are Bruta and Sheen. Unlikely, but but for comparison. 8 Q's for Bruta, 6 for Sheen. Base damage at 18 is 98.2. Base Q is 115, with Bruta 140, with Sheen 120. Like you said, 11 Qs for Bruta, 10 for Sheen. In this case, CD on Q is shorter than ICD on Sheen, so you only get a proc every other attack.
With Bruta, Q does 140 * 8 = 1120
With Sheen, Q does (3 * 120) + (3 * 218.2) = 1014.6
So yes, Brutalizer comes out ahead by 105.4 damage in this case, and will continue to pull slightly ahead the longer you stand there and Q them. But the difference in damage is so small that it's not in the "lolol Sheen sucks you're stupid" territory, which is how your tone is coming across.
However, how many fights last 11 seconds or more? And how often do you get to sit there and Q without being threatened?
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In short, hit and run fights, Sheen pulls ahead. The longer it goes, the more CDR gets to kick in, the better Bruta gets. In the early/mid game, where these items are the most notable, which is more likely to occur?
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So even in the most absurd sheen-favoring scenario, brutalizer STILL pulls ahead? Hahaha..
You also get to use E 3 times in 11 seconds with brutalizer, and 2 times with sheen. Do you count that at all?
Try it again with a Bloodthister factored in now.
Ezreal is a ranged DPS. If you aren't dishing out damage for at least 11 seconds in a teamfight you are worthless.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 12 2011 03:49 Requizen wrote:
Level 5 was just a point where I set the numbers, I even said it's not a perfect scenario in my post. That's how theory crafting works, you pick mirrored numbers for both sides and let it go.
15 ArPen is amazing, but that doesn't even break base armor for any champion by the time you can get it and, as Mogwai always tells me, the more armor they get, the worse flat AD becomes. As you level and get more base damage, the Sheen proc goes up as well. 47.2 + 3/level proc is nothing to scoff at, as the AD added by Brutalizer is only +25 and some ArPen. At level 18 (for argument's sake) that's a 98.2 damage proc, and if you upgrade to TF (which you probably will) it's a 147.3 damage proc every 2 seconds of fighting, which is pretty damn big, and also adds that damage to the pre-fight poke exchange where you can only shoot Qs until someone initiates. That, imo, adds up to more effectiveness than Bruta.
You're spouting a quote out of context when it doesn't actually help your case. In the case of the 1406 dmg Sheen vs 1385 damage Bruta mathcraft you did above, the Bruta still does more damage accounting ArPen even if the target has 300 armor.
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It only pulls ahead in a very small amount, as I said, and your condescending tone is getting annoying :\
If you re-read my posts, I've never said Brutalizer is a bad item. I said "I get Sheen first, here's why", and even mentioned that I generally get Bruta afterward. I simply don't understand why you're being such a jerk about this when the difference (especially in the laning phase before you get BFS/BT) is negligible that one second of lag can make one better over the other. Once you move into late game, you'll have both, and may even sell Brutalizer at some point.
Also, between Chauster and Voyboy (who's guides I've seen and were mentioned earlier), neither get CDR runes and Voyboy doesn't even recommend the CDR boots, Chauster mentions that Merc's are probably better. In that case, having that very nice 40% CDR is only possible with constant Blue, which doesn't generally happen in game, as you'll lose it and it might go to the jungler/mage in your group instead. I don't really feel like doing differentials right now, but I wonder at what point CDR actually outweighs Sheen in that case? With just boots and Bruta, you get 20%, which is probably 1 less Q, which would put Sheen ahead again.
What does that mean? ...It's too variable. With CDR boots (so no heavy CC) and constant blue buff (which you won't have at the low levels where we're debating), Bruta as a first item comes out ahead. With Merc's and having to give Blue to jungler or mage, Sheen first would come out ahead. Can you always rely on either of those scenarios? No. Can you always rely on hitting every Q, auto, and being in a fight to take full advantage of CDR? No. So the argument is kind of moot, is it not?
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having that very nice 40% CDR is only possible with constant Blue, which doesn't generally happen in game, as you'll lose it and it might go to the jungler/mage in your group instead
Lol good luck finding a group that gives the Ezreal Blue every time it's up, not gonna fucking happen. Besides, the fuck is this arguing about, just get both and be done with it. Bitching like women.
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On October 12 2011 04:24 Requizen wrote:
If you re-read my posts, I've never said Brutalizer is a bad item. I said "I get Sheen first, here's why", and even mentioned that I generally get Bruta afterward. I simply don't understand why you're being such a jerk about this when the difference (especially in the laning phase before you get BFS/BT) is negligible that one second of lag can make one better over the other. Once you move into late game, you'll have both, and may even sell Brutalizer at some point.
Because you are wrong, and you are justifying your point of view through nonsense which isn't conducive to a good argument.
You get sheen first. If it works for you, it works. I'm telling you how good players will punish you for such a build if you try to get it for laning... -> low DPS to creeps on top of having naturally no pushing abilities, gonna get creep blocked by anyone who can outpush you which is basically everyone, and going to be forced to waste mana trying to farm and keep your tower alive which is counterproductive to buying an item partially for its mana in the first place.
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On October 12 2011 05:22 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 04:24 Requizen wrote:
If you re-read my posts, I've never said Brutalizer is a bad item. I said "I get Sheen first, here's why", and even mentioned that I generally get Bruta afterward. I simply don't understand why you're being such a jerk about this when the difference (especially in the laning phase before you get BFS/BT) is negligible that one second of lag can make one better over the other. Once you move into late game, you'll have both, and may even sell Brutalizer at some point.
Because you are wrong, and you are justifying your point of view through nonsense which isn't conducive to a good argument. You get sheen first. If it works for you, it works. I'm telling you how good players will punish you for such a build if you try to get it for laning... -> low DPS to creeps on top of having naturally no pushing abilities, gonna get creep blocked by anyone who can outpush you which is basically everyone, and going to be forced to waste mana trying to farm and keep your tower alive which is counterproductive to buying an item partially for its mana in the first place.
I gave situations where I thought Sheen first would be a viable opener and then backed it up with math. That is basically what a discussion is, I don't see how you call it nonsense.
It's not like I'm just getting Sheen and calling it a day. I generally open Sapphire 2pot (unless I think I need the health/damage early on from DBlade) > boots > finish Sheen. If laning is still going (stuck in mid game), I go Bruta, otherwise BF > BT is my next step.
In my experience, you don't want to push the creep too hard anyway. On the contrary, I have no problem playing passive and being under my tower. Do I want to play aggressively and get that first kill or harass them out of lane? Yes, but that doesn't happen in every single game. If I can't play aggressively and they have dominance of the lane, the sitting back and sniping is a perfectly workable strategy that I have no problem using.
You can't just say "this is my build" and use it every time. Sapphire opening I feel is the most flexible, so I go that, or DBlade if I feel like it. Brutalizer isn't always the right choice, either. On the contrary, I think it's a bad choice if you're already pushing too hard, just save up for a late game item. Being the aggressor is great and all, but if you're sitting at their turret constantly with early game dominance, last hitting while watching turret fire and enemy damage is rather annoying to play.
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When you did math, you used the scenarios:
Level 5 boots 2 + sheen, that's nonsense
Level 18 with nothing but sheen or brutalizer, also nonsense.
Playing passive when you are EZREAL, especially nonsense. You shouldn't aim for that. You shouldn't even be comfortable doing that because that's a losing situation against any other AD carry.
Buying sheen first and especially starting sapphire 2 pots ensures that you can never do anything BUT play passive that only seems to work because your enemies are playing bad.
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On October 12 2011 06:00 Juicyfruit wrote:
When you did math, you used the scenarios:
Level 5 boots 2 + sheen, that's nonsense
Level 18 with nothing but sheen or brutalizer, also nonsense.
Playing passive when you are EZREAL, especially nonsense. You shouldn't aim for that. You shouldn't even be comfortable doing that because that's a losing situation against any other AD carry.
Buying sheen first and especially starting sapphire 2 pots ensures that you can never do anything BUT play passive that only seems to work because your enemies are playing bad.
I used scenarios that were easy to math out. I didn't feel like getting creep spawns, calculating how much gold and experience with perfect farming and running back and forth for buying, I just picked numbers and matched them up. It could have been any level, to be quite honest. I just said "alright, at level 5 I'll be laning. Numbers, ho!", I didn't go out of my way to pick an absurd scenario.
Playing aggressive and winning your lane in 100% of the games you play is also nonsense. There is always someone who plays better or positions better than you, or maybe on the same level but they're playing better this match. Passive play has to happen at times, you can't always run in headlong aggressively and win your lane. I don't aim for it, but Sapphire 2 pots means I'm alright if it happens. I've also played aggressively and gotten first blood opening as such.
I'm not saying this is the best or only way to play Ezreal. I simply put out that it was the way I play, and why I held my opinions, and then defended why it works for me. If you play Bruta first, fine, and the pros do, cool. I'm not the best, but I've not yet lost a game going Sapphire first into fast Sheen, so I think it's a pretty alright way to play. I have, however, lost plenty of DBlade into Bruta games. Is that the build or random happenstance? Maybe the latter, but I'll stick with what works for me.
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If it works for you, that's fine, keep using it. I just don't like it being recommended to other people when you can't reason it out properly.
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On October 12 2011 06:46 Juicyfruit wrote:
If it works for you, that's fine, keep using it. I just don't like it being recommended to other people when you can't reason it out properly.
Well... I guess my reasoning is that I don't generally get into sustained fights with my lane opponent, generally even in farming and poking back and forth when the opportunity arises. For this, I want my Q to hit like a truck whenever I land it, so I get Sheen. Since this is a public forum, I thought I would be able to state my opinion without harassment when I provide mostly logical reasoning :\
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United States47024 Posts
On October 12 2011 06:56 Requizen wrote:
Well... I guess my reasoning is that I don't generally get into sustained fights with my lane opponent, generally even in farming and poking back and forth when the opportunity arises. For this, I want my Q to hit like a truck whenever I land it, so I get Sheen. Since this is a public forum, I thought I would be able to state my opinion without harassment when I provide mostly logical reasoning :\
The thing is, you still haven't provided a compelling reason why you wouldn't get Brutalizer.
On October 12 2011 00:12 Requizen wrote:
I don't really like Brutalizer first on Ez. It's a good early/mid game item, but Ezreal really is more of a mid/late game champ, so it's very super situational to me. Like you said, CDR runes work nicely.
This isnt compelling because it's incorrect--Ezreal is very much an early-midgame focused champion. He gets outscaled late-game by pretty almost every other relevant AD carry. You have to push your early-midgame strength in order for Ezreal to be a compelling pick at all, because come late-game, Vayne/Kog/Trist straight up out-damage you, Cait is superior for sieging towers (similar poking power + superior creep clearing + traps + longer autoattack range), and Ashe has more utility.
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If you're gonna get Brutalizer, always go Brut->Sheen instead Sheen->Brut. However, I feel like Brutalizer first is an outdated build, Wriggles first or just straight up going for Triforce or BT is better IMO. In lane Brutalizer isn't really going to do much since so many people go for the fotm Wriggles. That 30 armor + life steal really nullifies an early Brutalizer's strengths. Unless you're coming out of the trades way ahead, you won't have the sustain to keep up (and also their pushing power will force you to last hit at tower all day). Because of this, I think ADs should focus more on reaching their lategame builds ASAP.
I think Ez is fine in the damage department and only falls off super late game (like 50+ minutes). I was surprised by the Chinese build (I think it was Wriggles->Triforce->LW->Whatever), it did a surprisingly large amount of damage all throughout the game and none of the Chinese Ez's did poorly. Both the EHome and WE Ez's were very strong and arguably did better than Chauster's Ez that tournament (of course Chauster only got one game to showcase his Ez so it could've been a fluke game).
I dunno... maybe it's another play-style issue but I've become much more of an auto-attacking Ez lately. I don't think Zerkers or IE are that bad on Ez as long as you have some life steal of some sort.
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just played my first game as ezreal. i was really underwelmed by his damage, even in the early game. it seems like all his shots require aiming but you arent rewarded by more damage or anything. he is also terrible at clearing out large creep waves and has no utility beyond a second flash ; /
what am i doing wrong? 
rhetorical question i know -_-
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I personally go doran->boots->brut->sheen for bot lane, and honestly I can say brut is much more useful early on than sheen since everything stat it gives just makes ezreal's already strong early game that much stronger.
I've gone sheen into a fast triforce before and it doesn't work as well as brut/sheen/BT. The only scenario where I can see building a fast triforce is if you build wriggles first otherwise the enemy AD will rape you 1v1 :/
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On October 12 2011 08:08 turdburgler wrote:just played my first game as ezreal. i was really underwelmed by his damage, even in the early game. it seems like all his shots require aiming but you arent rewarded by more damage or anything. he is also terrible at clearing out large creep waves and has no utility beyond a second flash ; / what am i doing wrong? rhetorical question i know -_-
He's an all skillshot skills man so every single one you need to aim, its what makes ez so fun and hard to play and master, first you must start with Q=>E=>W of course R when it on.
The play on him is get a D-blade go bot line and start farming, you can use Q for harras when the enemy AD is coming for a creep kill, your Q has a very long range and you can even zone champs with it.
I like to play an agresive ez in line so i run armor pen reds, armor yellows, cdr blues and armor pen quints, this way you have about 25armor pen wich means every single auto deals about 65 with doran and your Q is godlike 95-100 damage at lvl 1.
ez is all about getting a nice early game so you can destroy mid game and do well late game.
Use Q to start every fight, use W is theres a bunch of enemys and/or allys since you get haste bonus for allys and low the haste on enemys+some damage and use E to position/chase/scape tool is very important that you don't use E unless you know you will get a kill or can get away after, since ez is very squishy and if you have E on CD your pretty much dead.
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maybe its just because i was laning against vayne + soraka but it felt like she could just out damage me all game long, ult did nice damage but never enough to actually kill anyone. i dunno maybe i was just behind in farm all game long, it was a losing game anyway ; /
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Playing aggresive against a defensive soraka botlane means you can only really gain anything from it if your support is also aggressively geared, ie. alistar or taric. A gank might also get you a kill or a big enough advantage to outscale their botlane in the first teamfight.
There isn't a tactic or starter that'll magically work in every matchup or a one fits all build to go. You can't expect that to work every time. Simple examples would be going against taric/cait. Even if you can stay about even in cs, she'll simply start outpushing you due to you having poor creepclearing ability early on. That warrants rushing a wriggles early on as opposed to playing against someone like ashe where you can easily go for a quick BT/TF or simply brutalizer/sheen.
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Just a question, does the mana from sheen mean nothing in its consideration as a viable opening? You won't have a soraka every game in lane with you.
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one color of mana regen runes pretty standard on ez, which basically means minimal mana issues in lane. one of the few champs i still run mana regen on
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On October 12 2011 23:40 dignity wrote:
Just a question, does the mana from sheen mean nothing in its consideration as a viable opening? You won't have a soraka every game in lane with you.
If the item doesn`t provide enough benefit, then you can't justify sheen on the basis of mana alone. On top of proper mana conservation, 250 extra mana is not much of a deal breaker either way, as that amounts to little more than 2 mana potions per base trip and what sheen lacks over brutalizer opening is too severe to make it reasonable.
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Not to bring the discussion back, but I read a new featured guide on Solomid that doesn't recommend the Brutalizer, but rather DBlade, Boots, Wriggles, Sheen into late game items. It's been getting a lot of hits. Is it just because Wriggles is the new hotness for laning and doesn't leave a lot of money for Brutalizer?
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Wriggle solves a lot of ezreal's farming issues, so I'm not surprised it's been getting a lot of hits. It's also the best lifesteal item that isn't bloodthister and ezreal generally likes the stats.
I don't really know. I think wriggles is always a viable but situation item on any AD carry, depending on how much armor you'll need. If the enemy team has several AD sources including assassins, then wriggle probably not a bad idea to avoid being insta-gibbed by talon's AoE, for instance.
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You went on, before, about the benefits and strengths of Brutalizer as an aggressive item. So do you think Wriggles is the alternative for needing defensiveness in the early game?
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I think it's more match up dependant. If you're up against a team with a physical jungler, and laning against a hard physical damage champ starting clothe and 5 pots will give you a ton of time to farm before making that first trip back. If on that first trip back you think you're going to need wriggles get it if you're winning the lane feel free to go brutalizer and sheen.
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On October 13 2011 23:15 HereAndNow wrote:
You went on, before, about the benefits and strengths of Brutalizer as an aggressive item. So do you think Wriggles is the alternative for needing defensiveness in the early game?
I think straight up, ezreal needs to cap his CDR one way oranother, and brutalizer + CDR boots are item that I can't see being skipped.
That said, wriggles will give ezreal the sustain he needs in laning and some semblance of pushing power, and it's almost never a bad item because the stats are huge and it makes taking objectives so much easier. The damage output is just less than brut and I think if you take wriggles first, then you'll have to find another way of getting that last bit of CDR
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Forgive me if I'm wrong (didn't feel like doing a bunch of math myself >.<), but I think that even with CDRboots and Brutalizer, you're not CDR capped. Don't you need blue buff for full 40% cap? And in that vein, won't blue give you cap even without Brutalizer?
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CDR boots + bruta + blue elixir + masteries is capped CDR.
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Ah, I always forget about the elixirs
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Alright, I'm enough of an adult to admit when I'm wrong. Brutalizer opening is amazing when you play aggressive in lane. Going 2-0 in lane FB with first tower kill. Feels good man.
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...And having said that, I just watched Fnatic Lamia go DBlade > Sheen and dominate in IEM. I guess both work if you play right?
Edit:
Looking at it again, he rushed Triforce, so probably just because he went more of that hybrid route, also taking W pretty early on.
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On October 17 2011 15:13 Requizen wrote:
Looking at it again, he rushed Triforce, so probably just because he went more of that hybrid route, also taking W pretty early on.
Is that a viable build for normal games? Watching him max W over E and just be super aggressive with Trinity seemed pretty cool.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 17 2011 15:13 Requizen wrote:
...And having said that, I just watched Fnatic Lamia go DBlade > Sheen and dominate in IEM. I guess both work if you play right?
Edit:
Looking at it again, he rushed Triforce, so probably just because he went more of that hybrid route, also taking W pretty early on.
Personally, Lamia's AD play has never impressed me hugely. You'd have to do a lot of convincing to make me believe that fnatic's success was held up by Lamia's AD play and not xPeke/Shushei/Mellisan's stellar performances.
On October 17 2011 23:52 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 15:13 Requizen wrote:
Looking at it again, he rushed Triforce, so probably just because he went more of that hybrid route, also taking W pretty early on. Is that a viable build for normal games? Watching him max W over E and just be super aggressive with Trinity seemed pretty cool.
Max W over E seems wrong IMO. They gain the same damage per rank, E's CD scales while W's doesn't, and W's mana cost goes through the roof after a few ranks. Even if you're playing aggressive, it just seems better to max E (though having 1 rank W for passive stacks is always good).
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On October 17 2011 23:55 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 15:13 Requizen wrote:
...And having said that, I just watched Fnatic Lamia go DBlade > Sheen and dominate in IEM. I guess both work if you play right?
Edit:
Looking at it again, he rushed Triforce, so probably just because he went more of that hybrid route, also taking W pretty early on. Personally, Lamia's AD play has never impressed me hugely. You'd have to do a lot of convincing to make me believe that fnatic's success was held up by Lamia's AD play and not xPeke/Shushei/Mellisan's stellar performances.
I'm not saying it was all him, but going 11-0 in the finals of a major tournament and completely dominating your lane... not a small feat. He didn't win the game single handedly, but he contributed a lot.
Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 23:52 HereAndNow wrote:On October 17 2011 15:13 Requizen wrote:
Looking at it again, he rushed Triforce, so probably just because he went more of that hybrid route, also taking W pretty early on. Is that a viable build for normal games? Watching him max W over E and just be super aggressive with Trinity seemed pretty cool. Max W over E seems wrong IMO. They gain the same damage per rank, E's CD scales while W's doesn't, and W's mana cost goes through the roof after a few ranks. Even if you're playing aggressive, it just seems better to max E (though having 1 rank W for passive stacks is always good).
Yeah, I dunno if I'd max W over E... following most guides says to not even get one rank until 13 (when you can't get anything else), but I think getting it at 4, especially if you're going for this more hybrid build, might be nice.
That said, each rank adds an extra 50 damage and only 10 mana, which is pretty nice. Maybe not enough of a tradeoff for E's mobility, but I can maybe see some reasoning behind it if you really want to be able to trade pokes through minion waves.
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Well, common sense says you'd probably want to max E after Q. However, I think there's a good case for W > E as well.
E is strong, but it's not always reliable damage since you are using it for repositioning most of the time.
The buff/debuff from W is no joke. If you are getting trinity force, I can easily see why maxing W is stronger than E.
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maxing e almost halves your cd
maxing w only 2x's the effective aspd buff/nerf
half cd on a person with a flat cdr mechanic is godlay
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I agree about the damage, but I think it'd have to depend on lane opponent and general flow of the game, as that mobility that you get from E really saves you sometimes. 8 seconds off at max rank stacked with Q's CDR, it's quite nice for escaping.
I'll probably mess around with it a bunch. Like I said, it probably varies on a game-to-game basis.
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On October 18 2011 00:34 Navi wrote:
maxing e almost halves your cd
maxing w only 2x's the effective aspd buff/nerf
half cd on a person with a flat cdr mechanic is godlay
-shrug- you only need as many points in E as how often you need to actually blink though. I mean, I have never done anything other than maxing Q>E>W, and but I won't lie that I have found E can actually be up way more than you need it to be.
And to be fair, W's cooldown is innately always going to be lower than E's, even with max E, so in a way that synergizes with Ezreal's CDR mechanics just as well by keeping severa enemies permanently AS-debuffed the entire time while also dealing quite a lot of damage on top of that.
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That was my thought too. There are very few times that I thought that having E up 8 seconds earlier would save me, you rarely get to use it twice at max rank in a single fight as it is.
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then you're doing it wrong
ezreal doesn't e into 5 people and get instagibbed and boom 6 second fight
he kites and pokes and shit and chases when needed
and that can last for minutes at a time
i'd rather have an escape up even when "more than i need it to be" than have it not up when i need it
like wtf doesn't the same go for flash
clearly 21 utility and flash mastery are overrated
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On October 18 2011 01:24 Navi wrote:
clearly 21 utility and flash mastery are overrated
Don't most Ez players go 21-0-9? Like, all of them?
And I never E into a fight, that's suicide. Only E towards an enemy if you're chasing for a kill, otherwise save it for escape. Even at low levels and during a gank against me, I've never not had it up when I needed it.
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Kiting is just fine without E maxed if you have Trinity. Phage slow (procs on Q), move speed, health, all good. If you're already doing a good job of kiting, having E up more often won't make it easier anyway, it's really more of a "oh crap he's going to catch me run away" thing. If they're not anywhere near you, you shouldn't need E as is.
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On October 18 2011 01:24 Navi wrote:
then you're doing it wrong
ezreal doesn't e into 5 people and get instagibbed and boom 6 second fight
he kites and pokes and shit and chases when needed
and that can last for minutes at a time
i'd rather have an escape up even when "more than i need it to be" than have it not up when i need it
like wtf doesn't the same go for flash
clearly 21 utility and flash mastery are overrated
I don't play Ezreal and like I said, I'm still going to be maxing E > W the few times I do play him. That said, I think there's a little too much stock on how good maxing E is. W is another poke to itself and having high levels of it, while making you less mobile, will increase the amount of damage you actually do since you can't rely on E for damage on the right target, a majority of the time.
Don't people leave valkyrie on corki till last as well?
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United States47024 Posts
On October 18 2011 01:32 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 01:24 Navi wrote:
clearly 21 utility and flash mastery are overrated Don't most Ez players go 21-0-9? Like, all of them? And I never E into a fight, that's suicide. Only E towards an enemy if you're chasing for a kill, otherwise save it for escape. Even at low levels and during a gank against me, I've never not had it up when I needed it.
I believe Chauster goes 15-0-15.
On October 18 2011 01:42 Juicyfruit wrote:
Don't people leave valkyrie on corki till last as well?
Yes, but that's because the scaling on Gatling Gun's armor shred is retardedly good. 1st rank is 1 shred per tick for 3 seconds. 5th rank is 5 shred per tick for 5 seconds.
When the attack speed debuff on Essence Flux is 5 times better at rank 5 than rank 1, then we'll talk.
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On October 18 2011 01:24 Navi wrote:
then you're doing it wrong
ezreal doesn't e into 5 people and get instagibbed and boom 6 second fight
he kites and pokes and shit and chases when needed
and that can last for minutes at a time
i'd rather have an escape up even when "more than i need it to be" than have it not up when i need it
like wtf doesn't the same go for flash
clearly 21 utility and flash mastery are overrated
You go utility spec on Ez? I don't find that I need to E or Flash so much to warrant going full on utility. In a normal teamfight at most I'm using 2 E's along with my Flash/Exhaust. There are fewer and fewer champs that can actually be kited.
BTW I saw the discussion on CDR earlier. CDR isn't capped with Bruta/Boots/Masteries+Elixer if you're going offensive spec (38%), you need 2-3 CDR runes (3 flats or 2 per level) if you really want that 40%.
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cuz corki's e is actually useful and scaled incredibly with rank (the duration of the shredding cast increases with rank, apparently changing next patch) and generally has the mana pool to cast e when its needed
making that comparison is just silly, if w was a aoe armor shred (or even single target) that was %ad, im sure people would max it on ezreal as well
you don't always max jump skills, but if there are no better alternatives and the nuke is really significant in 1v1 or 2v2 skirmishes (especially on a person whose 1v1 ability is very strong during the levels he is maxing e due to the way mystic shot works) y not
that 21 util and flash mastery are just examples of getting cdr on flash, not to ezreal in particular
u can play him however u want, im done arguing about this cuz everything is extremely doable and up to playstyle
but the playstyle you have to adopt to cast a spell that has 2x mystic shot's mana cost at all ranks and does less damage if you don't rune for it is weird
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I've been getting it at level 4, delaying E a bit. Here's my thoughts:
- At low ranks, it does little to no damage unless you go that hybrid/rush TF build. Then it does... minimal but alright damage.
- The ASpd debuff/buff is pretty noticeable when dropping towers with teammates and when vsing auto champions.
- By playing smart, I never really feel like I'm screwed with the longer E CD. You can't really play as aggressively mid game and stupid over extend, but you're still strong.
- The mana use is kinda large, but again, if you do focus on W, you'll probably be TF rushing and getting Sheen for that little extra mana, so it's not a huge deal.
- Even by not leveling it and it only doing a minimal amount of damage, it actually gives you good lane control, psychologically. Once your opponents realize that they're not safe just standing behind the creep wave, they're more cautious about approaching you or going in for last hits. It doesn't really phase Caits, but Vayne, Kog, and Ashe all think twice about hanging around when you can poke them with no real repercussion.
As a random note, I just started noticing that Ezreal is one of very few champions who gets use out of EVERY stat on Trinity. I never realized how amazing this thing was on him, my new favorite build.
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I agree that trinity is the way to go on ez, but I find that getting it is the trouble. I've found opening boots>rageblade>sheen> thirster>finish TF is a really nice solid start. I know a lot of people swear by brutaliser, but I find that the rageblade scales better later on. It makes your whole combo hit harder when that's most crucial (late laning phase) as opposed to just your Q harass and the ASP/AP boost synergizes really nicely with his passive, making those QEQ pokes really sting since you get a couple more auto attacks off usually.
I've been toying with a low-cost ez build which gets a lot of the cheaper items as opposed to going straight for a big one like BT or IE. rageblade/brutaliser/sheen/malady for example. I dunno how viable it is, but it feels a lot stronger midgame and only becomes a problem in really long games when you want to sell off the brutaliser and malady for bigger items (you build sheen into TF obv)
That said, nothing wrong with either straight brutaliser or straight sheen openings.
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the problem with your rageblade/sheen/malady thingy is: your sheen and tf sheen procc is basically useless. You might aswell just get a bt then.
It scales with AD which your build doesnt give much (just brutalizer a lil bit)
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Sheen doesn't get anything from extra AD, it goes off base AD.
I still don't think Guinsoo's is a great item. You don't really need the AS passive on it, as you'll get AS from Trinity as well as your passive. The stats on it are great, but if you're going to go for an item that expensive, you want more from it. Just AD and AP won't make up for the fact that BT will give more AD and overall damage, and even Gunblade will probably be more useful because it provides that sustain that Ez overall lacks.
I really don't think Hybrid items are amazing on him in general. TF only is because of all the amazing things it brings outside of just damage: two awesome procs, health, mana, AS, move speed. If you're looking for just a damage item, BT, IE, and LW are better than Rageblade.
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rageblade gives some solid AD, and yes sheen scales off bonus AD(I think), but it still doubles your base damage. It's not useless, it's just not so good you can center your entire game plan around Qing people in the face like you do with standard AD ez. the upside of this build is that it makes your other abilities significantly nastier at the cost of a bit of Q power. It's still very much an AD carry style of play unlike true hybrid ez
that all said, since you build your brut and rageblade first, you aren't wearing a vanilla sheen for that early game where it helps you dominate with poke so much. it's as much there to give you some extra mana to sustain mid game as for the proc and to build into TF asap.
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Sheen is good, but it does not scale off bonus AD:
Unique: On cast, for 10 seconds, your next standard attack deals extra damage equal to 100% of your base attack damage. 2 second cooldown.
I get it because I rush to TF. If I'm going full AD (see our discussion a few pages back), it's not a good item, Bruta outdoes it.
Rageblade isn't a terrible item, it just lacks compared to most others. I play hybrid midgame with TF because TF brings a lot of utility, but full hybrid Ez doesn't bring as much damage as full AD Ez. You're sacrificing super-powerful Q and amazing autos for a stronger W (which doesn't scale as hard as Q) and E (which you're not going to use for damage unless you're chasing, at which point it's damage doesn't really matter anyway).
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I tried the discussion's style of rushing TF, and I just don't feel that it's doing enough damage. Even landing all my skillshots, my damage output just seems low. I like all the other stats on it (movespeed is fun, health is nice, and procs are cool), but as a damage dealer I just don't feel that I'm doing enough damage.
so was this the only build being used at IEM? I didn't see all the games, wondering if Bruta > BT builds are still viable.
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Honestly, just play Graves now. He's essentially the same thing, but much, much better.
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On October 21 2011 02:49 AwayFromLife wrote:
Honestly, just play Graves now. He's essentially the same thing, but much, much better.
Didn't know Graves had a 4 second CD poke that has 1000 range and only costs 50 mana.
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On October 21 2011 03:07 ArC_man wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 02:49 AwayFromLife wrote:
Honestly, just play Graves now. He's essentially the same thing, but much, much better. Didn't know Graves had a 4 second CD poke that has 1000 range and only costs 50 mana.
Who needs it when you have a 450 range dash and 750 range cone of fuck everything?
Graves' Q doesn't get blocked by minions and demolishes, Ezreal's Q gets blocked half the time (or more), is easier to dodge, and is single target only.
Graves has a great utility spell rather than Ez's W that does little damage and eats all the mana.
Ezreal's E is only slightly longer, cooldown only affected by Q. Graves' is reduced by autos and gives, essentially, Trist's Q buff that synergizes with itself to lower it's own CD faster.
Ults are too different to compare. Both are good, Ez's hits harder and is global, Graves' is easier to land and shorter base CD.
Graves' passive makes him tanky, which you need as a ranged dps.
The only thing Ez has on him is range, which isn't that strong anymore with every single champ having a gap closer.
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On October 21 2011 03:20 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 03:07 ArC_man wrote:On October 21 2011 02:49 AwayFromLife wrote:
Honestly, just play Graves now. He's essentially the same thing, but much, much better. Didn't know Graves had a 4 second CD poke that has 1000 range and only costs 50 mana. Who needs it when you have a 450 range dash and 750 range cone of fuck everything? Graves' Q doesn't get blocked by minions and demolishes, Ezreal's Q gets blocked half the time (or more), is easier to dodge, and is single target only. Graves has a great utility spell rather than Ez's W that does little damage and eats all the mana. Ezreal's E is only slightly longer, cooldown only affected by Q. Graves' is reduced by autos and gives, essentially, Trist's Q buff that synergizes with itself to lower it's own CD faster. Ults are too different to compare. Both are good, Ez's hits harder and is global, Graves' is easier to land and shorter base CD. Graves' passive makes him tanky, which you need as a ranged dps. The only thing Ez has on him is range, which isn't that strong anymore with every single champ having a gap closer.
lol I'm commenting at the fact you said Graves is "essentially the same thing, but much, much better". Then you just said that they really have nothing in common other than the fact that they're both AD carries.
People play Ezreal because they like him, ever since the big Ez nerfs people have played Ez because they like the character. Don't try to dissuade people with inaccurate arguments (Graves isn't anything similar to Ez in playstyle).
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On October 21 2011 03:34 ArC_man wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 03:20 AwayFromLife wrote:On October 21 2011 03:07 ArC_man wrote:On October 21 2011 02:49 AwayFromLife wrote:
Honestly, just play Graves now. He's essentially the same thing, but much, much better. Didn't know Graves had a 4 second CD poke that has 1000 range and only costs 50 mana. Who needs it when you have a 450 range dash and 750 range cone of fuck everything? Graves' Q doesn't get blocked by minions and demolishes, Ezreal's Q gets blocked half the time (or more), is easier to dodge, and is single target only. Graves has a great utility spell rather than Ez's W that does little damage and eats all the mana. Ezreal's E is only slightly longer, cooldown only affected by Q. Graves' is reduced by autos and gives, essentially, Trist's Q buff that synergizes with itself to lower it's own CD faster. Ults are too different to compare. Both are good, Ez's hits harder and is global, Graves' is easier to land and shorter base CD. Graves' passive makes him tanky, which you need as a ranged dps. The only thing Ez has on him is range, which isn't that strong anymore with every single champ having a gap closer. lol I'm commenting at the fact you said Graves is "essentially the same thing, but much, much better". Then you just said that they really have nothing in common other than the fact that they're both AD carries. People play Ezreal because they like him, ever since the big Ez nerfs people have played Ez because they like the character. Don't try to dissuade people with inaccurate arguments (Graves isn't anything similar to Ez in playstyle).
They really are. They both have:
- A ranged poke (Q/W and Q)
- An attack speed steroid (passive and E)
- A mobility spell that can be used as both escape and chase (E and E)
- And AoE ult skillshot that hits really hard
- Built in CDR reduction on at least one ability
The only difference in their skillsets is that Ez has the mostly useless attack speed debuff/buff from W and Graves gets Smokescreen, which is fucking awesome. Ez's Q and W are basically just rolled into Graves' Q for a skillshot that deals a fuckton of damage and goes through targets.
They both have playstyles that reward the player for spamming and using autos, and they both have skillshot abilities for burst. The actual differences are rather minor, and heavily in Graves' favor.
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On October 21 2011 03:20 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 03:07 ArC_man wrote:On October 21 2011 02:49 AwayFromLife wrote:
Honestly, just play Graves now. He's essentially the same thing, but much, much better. Didn't know Graves had a 4 second CD poke that has 1000 range and only costs 50 mana. Who needs it when you have a 450 range dash and 750 range cone of fuck everything? Graves' Q doesn't get blocked by minions and demolishes, Ezreal's Q gets blocked half the time (or more), is easier to dodge, and is single target only. Graves has a great utility spell rather than Ez's W that does little damage and eats all the mana. Ezreal's E is only slightly longer, cooldown only affected by Q. Graves' is reduced by autos and gives, essentially, Trist's Q buff that synergizes with itself to lower it's own CD faster. Ults are too different to compare. Both are good, Ez's hits harder and is global, Graves' is easier to land and shorter base CD. Graves' passive makes him tanky, which you need as a ranged dps. The only thing Ez has on him is range, which isn't that strong anymore with every single champ having a gap closer.
OLAF DOESN'T
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On October 21 2011 03:45 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 03:34 ArC_man wrote:On October 21 2011 03:20 AwayFromLife wrote:On October 21 2011 03:07 ArC_man wrote:On October 21 2011 02:49 AwayFromLife wrote:
Honestly, just play Graves now. He's essentially the same thing, but much, much better. Didn't know Graves had a 4 second CD poke that has 1000 range and only costs 50 mana. Who needs it when you have a 450 range dash and 750 range cone of fuck everything? Graves' Q doesn't get blocked by minions and demolishes, Ezreal's Q gets blocked half the time (or more), is easier to dodge, and is single target only. Graves has a great utility spell rather than Ez's W that does little damage and eats all the mana. Ezreal's E is only slightly longer, cooldown only affected by Q. Graves' is reduced by autos and gives, essentially, Trist's Q buff that synergizes with itself to lower it's own CD faster. Ults are too different to compare. Both are good, Ez's hits harder and is global, Graves' is easier to land and shorter base CD. Graves' passive makes him tanky, which you need as a ranged dps. The only thing Ez has on him is range, which isn't that strong anymore with every single champ having a gap closer. lol I'm commenting at the fact you said Graves is "essentially the same thing, but much, much better". Then you just said that they really have nothing in common other than the fact that they're both AD carries. People play Ezreal because they like him, ever since the big Ez nerfs people have played Ez because they like the character. Don't try to dissuade people with inaccurate arguments (Graves isn't anything similar to Ez in playstyle). They really are. They both have: - A ranged poke (Q/W and Q) - An attack speed steroid (passive and E) - A mobility spell that can be used as both escape and chase (E and E) - And AoE ult skillshot that hits really hard - Built in CDR reduction on at least one ability The only difference in their skillsets is that Ez has the mostly useless attack speed debuff/buff from W and Graves gets Smokescreen, which is fucking awesome. Ez's Q and W are basically just rolled into Graves' Q for a skillshot that deals a fuckton of damage and goes through targets. They both have playstyles that reward the player for spamming and using autos, and they both have skillshot abilities for burst. The actual differences are rather minor, and heavily in Graves' favor.
Think about how the two characters play. How do you play Ezreal? You consistently poke with Q from a range that only Cait/Kog can possibly match and once you know you can win a fight you go in for the burst kill.
Graves is more of a bruiser/AD carry since he has an incentive to keep auto-attacking in order to keep up stacks of his passive. Ez has no incentive to auto-attack someone unless he knows it's a fight he can win, he's purely a poke/burst AD carry.
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Oh man, I just take Ez mid anymore. If the enemy "follows the meta" and puts an AP carry there, Ez can crap all over almost all of them with poking power and better creep killing prowess. Unless they do assassin mid, he's crazy good there, with very few exceptions.
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I think Ez is one of the best AD carries, honestly. I love seeing one on my team, assuming they know how to play him. His harass is one of the best in the game, he's slippery with his E, and his R is amazing if coordinated. He seems to be one of the harder ones to play (all skillshots, short auto range, what not), but he can't really be stopped once he starts snowballing.
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On November 09 2011 05:23 Requizen wrote:
Oh man, I just take Ez mid anymore. If the enemy "follows the meta" and puts an AP carry there, Ez can crap all over almost all of them with poking power and better creep killing prowess. Unless they do assassin mid, he's crazy good there, with very few exceptions.
Can you explain to me your playstyle when going up vs an AP mid? I've always found it hard as I only feel stronger quite early, during which time they can hide in minions and play slightly more defensively to avoid being Q'd. Not long after this, their AOE begins to kick in and I find the wave pushed in my face constantly, making it hard to get anything done.
How do you get around this? Play hyper aggresively from level 1 and start clearing the wave right out of the gate to set up more early opportunities?
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That's pretty much it exactly. Early levels, they only rely on their autos for last hitting, of which yours are stronger by far (thanks to runes and what not). Zone them out with good positioning and Q and just push/last hit as well as you can. Once you hit 2 and have Q-E, you can put out, maybe not as good burst damage, but pretty good burst on them and then follow it up with strong autos.
Also remember your E is one of, if not the, best positioning tool in the game. It's a built in Flash, so don't be afraid to use it both offensively and defensively. I like getting W at 4 as well, so you can put some pressure on through the wave. Poke with Q constantly, it has a longer range than most spells they can throw at you.
Ez needs to psych out his opponent. You're strong early, but it starts to even out as levels go up. You need to be in their face and make them afraid from the get go. If they're scared, you have the definite advantage.
However, having said that, there are a few matchups that don't go in his favor. Xerath can outrange you, gets armor, and can hit you through the creepwave, for instance. There are others that are pretty good for him. Viegar, for instance, as you should never get stunned by him, and if you zone him out his Q won't get too out of control. Take it case by case, and don't be afraid to call for a lane switch.
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Got my ezreal groove back after a few games. 6-3-1, 9-3-10, 7-3-10 after going a lousy 3-3-3 lol. still, found a fairly decent build on him that i like so i'm happy
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Ez is my go-to ad carry. Been using him for a long time and he's by far the most fun carry imo. I went bot with Blitz the other day against Cait and Taric. Granted, Im stuck in 1300ish ELO, but we utterly destroyed them. Our lane was winnig like 10-1 after 20min, and my score by the end of the game was 13-0-14. The build I use tend to work pretty well. I get a BF sword, sheen, BC, Triforce and a BT with some defensive items inbetween if I need any.
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._.
Had to face Akali mid as Ezreal.
She dived me at level 3, got first blood, snowballed from there.
That is why you don't send Ezreal mid against Akali.
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On November 12 2011 00:25 57 Corvette wrote:
._.
Had to face Akali mid as Ezreal.
She dived me at level 3, got first blood, snowballed from there.
That is why you don't send Ezreal mid against Akali.
If Akali is beating your ass that hard pre 6, you're playing mid Ezreal horribly horribly wrong.
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On November 12 2011 00:25 57 Corvette wrote:
._.
Had to face Akali mid as Ezreal.
She dived me at level 3, got first blood, snowballed from there.
That is why you don't send Ezreal mid against Akali.
I don't see how Akali can win against Ezreal mid before lvl 6...
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Right now, i'm going double dorans triforce BT LW QSS BT or wriggles triforce etc. if i'm struggling also i'm 1650ish right now so i dunno lol. i just like this build better than getting something like bruta on him
On November 12 2011 00:25 57 Corvette wrote:
._.
Had to face Akali mid as Ezreal.
She dived me at level 3, got first blood, snowballed from there.
That is why you don't send Ezreal mid against Akali.
Yeah. definitely no. akali outharrasses ez and can burst him down so easily makes me sad
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I have on days and off days with him. Maybe it's lane enemy or team comp, but some games I demolish, some games I fail so hard.
On topic though, Akali out harasses ~80% of squishy champs, better to make someone tanky lane against her. You either need to harass her out or out sustain her. Ez can do neither.
I also have yet to try a Wriggle's opening on him, but the lane possibilities seem nice.
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@ level 6, sure, but pre 6... man, I just don't see how Ez loses pre 6. Akali should never be able to trigger her Qs, which makes her like, strictly worse than Pantheon in the matchup. And Ezreal was the only ranged carry that didn't get his shit pushed completely in by Pantheon. If you made Pantheon's Q hit weaker, took away his jump, and took away his passive, I just don't see how Ez loses. And as far as I can tell that's what the pre 6 Akali matchup should be like.
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On November 12 2011 00:35 Mogwai wrote:
@ level 6, sure, but pre 6... man, I just don't see how Ez loses pre 6. Akali should never be able to trigger her Qs, which makes her like, strictly worse than Pantheon in the matchup. And Ezreal was the only ranged carry that didn't get his shit pushed completely in by Pantheon. If you made Pantheon's Q hit weaker, took away his jump, and took away his passive, I just don't see how Ez loses. And as far as I can tell that's what the pre 6 Akali matchup should be like.
In that regard, it's basically like this (from my ELO Hell experience): Akali sits in/behind creep wave, last hitting and throwing Qs at you. You can't really retaliate without autoing or running around behind her creep wave, so you just try to farm and stay alive. Once you both hit 2, she'll Shroud and get free harass/last hits, forcing you away whenever it's up, or you lose around a health bar from Q + proc. You basically have to turn it into a farming game with your Q, until you both hit 6, then you're kinda fucked.
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Why aren't you autoattacking her? Akali destroys all ranged AD's except urgot after 6 but she should have to do it from a 20 cs deficit.
With a decent item advantage and good usage of exhaust you could even beat her at level 6 if she plays too aggressive.
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Her Q range is actually longer than your auto attacks, and once she gets Shroud (level 2), autos become useless. And if they're properly glyphed/runed, they'll start with boots and be faster than you, so getting that Q proc is easy for her. And of course, the obvious minion aggro.
That said, it's not... impossible to lane against her, but she is definately one of the most difficult for Ez or any AD carry to lane against.
Edit:
I'm sure in a straight fight, Ezreal could beat Akali if perfect kiting and landing all Qs, but that's pretty difficult when running through creep waves and she goes stealth. Like I said, possible, but not the easiest, and she definitely has an advantage given equal skill levels I'd say.
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No she doesn't have the advantage. At level 1 she's trading 1 unprocced Q and a couple of minion attacks for 2-3 ezreal autoattacks, unless she doesn't plan on farming, and if she tries to come up and proc her Q, mystic shot to the face. Proper shroud usage will only take Akali so far and it sucks vs Ezreal of all ranged carries since Q will still hit if she tries to zone you with it.
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Hm, I suppose I'm usually just too cautious to engage her knowing the burst she can put out. However, unless you do a Wriggle's opening, I'm fairly certain she can out sustain Ez with her spellvamp passive.
Not that I'm an expert on the matchup, while I love dominating mid in normals as Ez, once you get to ranked and people try to force in the meta, if I get to play Ez I'm generally bot and any Akali is usually top. So sad
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She's gonna be able to kill you if you aren't careful, but being careful is not the same as played scared :<
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On November 12 2011 00:56 Requizen wrote:
Her Q range is actually longer than your auto attacks, and once she gets Shroud (level 2), autos become useless. And if they're properly glyphed/runed, they'll start with boots and be faster than you, so getting that Q proc is easy for her. And of course, the obvious minion aggro.
That said, it's not... impossible to lane against her, but she is definately one of the most difficult for Ez or any AD carry to lane against.
Edit:
I'm sure in a straight fight, Ezreal could beat Akali if perfect kiting and landing all Qs, but that's pretty difficult when running through creep waves and she goes stealth. Like I said, possible, but not the easiest, and she definitely has an advantage given equal skill levels I'd say.
if you open boots and she opens boots, how the hell is she actually going to catch you? She needs to close 600 range over the distance of mid lane. She only has 20 movespeed on you and you have the fastest non-targeted blink other than flash in the whole game. I just don't get how this is how you see this working out.
Also, shroud is only 40% up time. Totally melodramatic to say it makes your autos useless.
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On November 12 2011 01:12 Juicyfruit wrote:
She's gonna be able to kill you if you aren't careful, but being careful is not the same as played scared :<
I'm always scared playing against assassins D:
But on a serious note, I started my LoL "career" with Cait (first champ I bought), so I'm still always wary of champs like Ez, Graves, and Vayne, where you need to get in so close to do any auto damage. I'm pretty good at landing all his skillshots and going for the kill, but early game managing space with autos is still iffy for me. Thanks for the advice!
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Thoughts on summoners / masteries post patch?
30/0/0 is my initial thought. I gave it a quick test and it did seem like my damage was noticeably higher.
Not so sure on summoners. Cleanse is really attractive, and surge is quite good too, but I'm not sure if it's worth trading for the utility of exhaust. Whether exhaust is still worth it post nerf / cleanse change will probably depend to a large extent on how popular cleanse becomes.
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The only way to lane against Akali is to be SUPER AGRESSIVE before lvl 6, if you shut her down before then (you have a lantern, she's 1/2 lvls behind) you have a shot of fighting her at close range, cause you'll be a little more tankier then her.
I've ruined my fair share of Akali's in my days and I can tell you that only the best of Akali's won't fuck up the first 5 lvl's. And even if you're equally leveled, you've still got a shot against her. When she's fed its a whole different thing though.
The Assassin's you should really be scared of are Talon and Irelia, they stick to you / silence you and you'll barely be able to retaliate without taking more damage then you deal. Irelia is easy to shut down early though.
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This guy is really annoying to play :\
He doesn't snowball like every other AD champion, he can get shut down really easily, and he doesn't scale that well into the late game. Even in games where I get TF, 2 BTs, and a LW, I'm still not a walking wrecking ball like Cait, Vayne, or Kog. I mean, the mobility and poke is nice, but that only really is super useful for running or laning, and he feels really weak elsewhere. Especially in teamfights, where you can't reliably land any skillshots and people see your ult coming and dodge it 90% of the time.
Maybe I'm just playing him wrong, but he doesn't seem that great compared to most of the other AD carries.
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I think you are playing him wrong ^^
The new utility masteries are soooo good for Ezreal, giving him maxxed out mana regen and extra mana, so good.
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What really? How do you spec in utility? It's the tree that I've maxed the least (once only) and I'm still not too familiar with it. How do you go about it?
here's a blank tree :D
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Oh... I thought when you said utility you meant 21 util. Nvm. Although that much mana regen in all sounds overkill
Why don't you get the mpen mastery?
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Because that 10% is barely noticeable when the only magic dmg you deal will be your E's and R's (I don't skill W till later on, and only use it for baron/dragon/towers)
More important to get the mana regen. And I actually still have mana issues, with that build.
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Have you considered taking deadliness and lethality instead of one point in butcher, 3 in vampirism and one in havoc?
It seems to me that you would get much much more out of those points instead, particularly since lethality is so stupidly strong right now. I -think- it's stronger even if you don't build triforce...speaking of which, what's your regular build?
Also, how do you run out of mana so hard? Are those flat mana regen or scaling?
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On November 17 2011 21:07 R04R wrote:
Oh... I thought when you said utility you meant 21 util. Nvm. Although that much mana regen in all sounds overkill
Why don't you get the mpen mastery?
ezreal is still the only non-caster champion i would ever run mana regen runes on. you can never have enough
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On November 18 2011 03:58 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 21:07 R04R wrote:
Oh... I thought when you said utility you meant 21 util. Nvm. Although that much mana regen in all sounds overkill
Why don't you get the mpen mastery? ezreal is still the only non-caster champion i would ever run mana regen runes on. you can never have enough
Oh come on, casters are the champs that need mana regen runes the least. Ranged ADs are the most mana starved champs in the game. Ez, Trist, Ashe, Cait all can blow their manapools in just a couple of spells.
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On November 18 2011 05:08 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 03:58 barbsq wrote:On November 17 2011 21:07 R04R wrote:
Oh... I thought when you said utility you meant 21 util. Nvm. Although that much mana regen in all sounds overkill
Why don't you get the mpen mastery? ezreal is still the only non-caster champion i would ever run mana regen runes on. you can never have enough Oh come on, casters are the champs that need mana regen runes the least. Ranged ADs are the most mana starved champs in the game. Ez, Trist, Ashe, Cait all can blow their manapools in just a couple of spells.
what, how do casters need mana regen the least. if i dont have a decent amount of mana regen either from blue, drings, mana pots or runes, staying in lane for an extended period of time (esp levels 2-8ish) becomes a pain. At least ranged ad can still shoot you and do dmg, but that's a bit more tough for ezreal since he is on the lower side of the aa spectrum (relative to other ranged champs), hence why i would be more willing to use mana regen to be able to keep up q's
unless you're telling me that you basically only use aa's in lane as a caster
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On November 17 2011 00:45 HereAndNow wrote:
This guy is really annoying to play :\
He doesn't snowball like every other AD champion, he can get shut down really easily, and he doesn't scale that well into the late game. Even in games where I get TF, 2 BTs, and a LW, I'm still not a walking wrecking ball like Cait, Vayne, or Kog. I mean, the mobility and poke is nice, but that only really is super useful for running or laning, and he feels really weak elsewhere. Especially in teamfights, where you can't reliably land any skillshots and people see your ult coming and dodge it 90% of the time.
Maybe I'm just playing him wrong, but he doesn't seem that great compared to most of the other AD carries.
ezreal isn't a champ you can just pick up and be good with after a few games. his skillshots require a lot of practice and your damage is going to be shit until your able to land 90% of them. But when you get to that point you will notice your damage is just as good if not better than all the other point-n-click carrys.
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On November 16 2011 14:17 Happy Frog wrote:
Thoughts on summoners / masteries post patch?
30/0/0 is my initial thought. I gave it a quick test and it did seem like my damage was noticeably higher.
Not so sure on summoners. Cleanse is really attractive, and surge is quite good too, but I'm not sure if it's worth trading for the utility of exhaust. Whether exhaust is still worth it post nerf / cleanse change will probably depend to a large extent on how popular cleanse becomes.
lol 30/0/0 is what i came up with too when i made my ez page
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On November 18 2011 05:40 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 05:08 spinesheath wrote:On November 18 2011 03:58 barbsq wrote:On November 17 2011 21:07 R04R wrote:
Oh... I thought when you said utility you meant 21 util. Nvm. Although that much mana regen in all sounds overkill
Why don't you get the mpen mastery? ezreal is still the only non-caster champion i would ever run mana regen runes on. you can never have enough Oh come on, casters are the champs that need mana regen runes the least. Ranged ADs are the most mana starved champs in the game. Ez, Trist, Ashe, Cait all can blow their manapools in just a couple of spells. what, how do casters need mana regen the least. if i dont have a decent amount of mana regen either from blue, drings, mana pots or runes, staying in lane for an extended period of time (esp levels 2-8ish) becomes a pain. At least ranged ad can still shoot you and do dmg, but that's a bit more tough for ezreal since he is on the lower side of the aa spectrum (relative to other ranged champs), hence why i would be more willing to use mana regen to be able to keep up q's unless you're telling me that you basically only use aa's in lane as a caster
Because, like you said, AP users get mana regen items (Doran or Catalyst) and get fed blue. They also have larger mana pools to begin with.
AD on the other hand have no mana regen, and unlike mid cannot push their lane with a couple spells to go back and buy. Their trip back to lane is also longer.
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On November 18 2011 06:16 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 05:40 barbsq wrote:On November 18 2011 05:08 spinesheath wrote:On November 18 2011 03:58 barbsq wrote:On November 17 2011 21:07 R04R wrote:
Oh... I thought when you said utility you meant 21 util. Nvm. Although that much mana regen in all sounds overkill
Why don't you get the mpen mastery? ezreal is still the only non-caster champion i would ever run mana regen runes on. you can never have enough Oh come on, casters are the champs that need mana regen runes the least. Ranged ADs are the most mana starved champs in the game. Ez, Trist, Ashe, Cait all can blow their manapools in just a couple of spells. what, how do casters need mana regen the least. if i dont have a decent amount of mana regen either from blue, drings, mana pots or runes, staying in lane for an extended period of time (esp levels 2-8ish) becomes a pain. At least ranged ad can still shoot you and do dmg, but that's a bit more tough for ezreal since he is on the lower side of the aa spectrum (relative to other ranged champs), hence why i would be more willing to use mana regen to be able to keep up q's unless you're telling me that you basically only use aa's in lane as a caster Because, like you said, AP users get mana regen items (Doran or Catalyst) and get fed blue. They also have larger mana pools to begin with. AD on the other hand have no mana regen, and unlike mid cannot push their lane with a couple spells to go back and buy. Their trip back to lane is also longer.
that wasn't the point of what i was saying tho, i wasn't saying that mana regen was a requirement for AP, its just something i would only really ever consider for an AP champ and ezreal. Most of the time, yes, i dont use mana regen on casters, but sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. For example, sometimes i like to do zhonya's rush on morgana, this involves going boots first -> chain vest or nlr -> zhonya's, At the levels where mana regen is most useful and when you're least likely to have mana regen items/blue are ~1-8 or so depending on the jungler. Another example is Karma, who i like to do abyssal first on. Anyways, TL:DR i think mana regen is something to consider, not a requirement.
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On November 18 2011 06:12 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 14:17 Happy Frog wrote:
Thoughts on summoners / masteries post patch?
30/0/0 is my initial thought. I gave it a quick test and it did seem like my damage was noticeably higher.
Not so sure on summoners. Cleanse is really attractive, and surge is quite good too, but I'm not sure if it's worth trading for the utility of exhaust. Whether exhaust is still worth it post nerf / cleanse change will probably depend to a large extent on how popular cleanse becomes. lol 30/0/0 is what i came up with too when i made my ez page
Yah, that is what I am going to do with Jax. Haven't had time to try Ez out again. Want my megaman skin.
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On November 18 2011 02:28 Lanzoma wrote:Have you considered taking deadliness and lethality instead of one point in butcher, 3 in vampirism and one in havoc? It seems to me that you would get much much more out of those points instead, particularly since lethality is so stupidly strong right now. I -think- it's stronger even if you don't build triforce...speaking of which, what's your regular build? Also, how do you run out of mana so hard? Are those flat mana regen or scaling?
Recently I've become a fan of consistant play, with a low amount of deaths. To obtain this you have to stop making high reward high risk dicisions and start playing to gain a lot of small rewards at a low risk, the amount of harass I do with my Q's and E's in lane requires me to have that much mana regen, also, the mana runes are scaling cause they make even with non-scaling runes quite fast, and even at lategame you will have mana isues, and even though you are the only AD carry that really needs a blue, the chances of getting one when you have a mana using AP caster in your team are quite low.
I deem critchance/damage "high risk" due to the fact that i preffer to keep my distance and using my superior range to my advantage, the only matchup I think about changing this is when I'm playing vs Urgot, when you do have to get in there to win.
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On November 18 2011 18:15 Therealdevil wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 02:28 Lanzoma wrote:Have you considered taking deadliness and lethality instead of one point in butcher, 3 in vampirism and one in havoc? It seems to me that you would get much much more out of those points instead, particularly since lethality is so stupidly strong right now. I -think- it's stronger even if you don't build triforce...speaking of which, what's your regular build? Also, how do you run out of mana so hard? Are those flat mana regen or scaling? Recently I've become a fan of consistant play, with a low amount of deaths. To obtain this you have to stop making high reward high risk dicisions and start playing to gain a lot of small rewards at a low risk, the amount of harass I do with my Q's and E's in lane requires me to have that much mana regen, also, the mana runes are scaling cause they make even with non-scaling runes quite fast, and even at lategame you will have mana isues, and even though you are the only AD carry that really needs a blue, the chances of getting one when you have a mana using AP caster in your team are quite low. I deem critchance/damage "high risk" due to the fact that i preffer to keep my distance and using my superior range to my advantage, the only matchup I think about changing this is when I'm playing vs Urgot, when you do have to get in there to win.
I don't know who you are, sir, but you most certainly are not Therealdevil. No high reward high risk decisions? This would never have happened when you played Kennen and I was still playing on EU.
If you want more than 21 offense on Ezreal, go 23/0/7. I definitely agree with TRD that the base mana + mana regen is way too good on Ezreal to omit it for some minor offensive stats.
Yes the extra base mana is actually REALLY good on many ADs.
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The need to become better at this game has become greater then the need to (lightning) rush in.
Might pick up Kennen again after all these buffs he's quite playable again.
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I just want to add fiddlesticks to the list of AP mids that you cannot lane against. His drain can out heal your harass and he can silence you when you try to auto attack. The only way to lane is to passive farm but if he is smart he just last hits standing close to the creep wave to that he can fear, drain and silence you(the silence stops you Eing away) when you try to last hit.
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On November 18 2011 18:15 Therealdevil wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 02:28 Lanzoma wrote:Have you considered taking deadliness and lethality instead of one point in butcher, 3 in vampirism and one in havoc? It seems to me that you would get much much more out of those points instead, particularly since lethality is so stupidly strong right now. I -think- it's stronger even if you don't build triforce...speaking of which, what's your regular build? Also, how do you run out of mana so hard? Are those flat mana regen or scaling? Recently I've become a fan of consistant play, with a low amount of deaths. To obtain this you have to stop making high reward high risk dicisions and start playing to gain a lot of small rewards at a low risk, the amount of harass I do with my Q's and E's in lane requires me to have that much mana regen, also, the mana runes are scaling cause they make even with non-scaling runes quite fast, and even at lategame you will have mana isues, and even though you are the only AD carry that really needs a blue, the chances of getting one when you have a mana using AP caster in your team are quite low. I deem critchance/damage "high risk" due to the fact that i preffer to keep my distance and using my superior range to my advantage, the only matchup I think about changing this is when I'm playing vs Urgot, when you do have to get in there to win.
Fair enough. For what it's worth, I decided to try your setup and I'm never going back. I'm used to playing very austere with my mana/hp, being selectively aggressive, but Ezreal really benefits SO much from having nearly unlimited mana that it's worth the loss in defensive runes (why trade when you can just force free damage?). Not to mention, I used to run oom in extended fights midgame and that just feel extremely awful. I can now ditch an early sheen and not feel like every single Q has to count or I'm screwed.
I find it hard to ditch lethality, though. I can't really think of many scenarios in which I'd rather have 3% lifesteal + some minor stats than 4%crit and 10%crit damage.
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Lantern > boots lvl 1 > sheen > phage > boots 2 > trinity > BT >BT>Lw/bt :3
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Triforce first? o.o
I'd really like to see a replay if you have one, I feel like there's something I'm missing here.
Edit: Wait, what are your starting items if boots go after wrigg? Cloth 3 + 1?
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Triforce first is pretty normal. It gives you mobility, damage, health, etc. With it, you become a fairly mobile skirmisher who can 1v1 and hit and run pretty well, which is good for that mid-game range when you get it. Then you get 2 BTs and start crushing people.
Start can be Boots 3 or Cloth 5, in my experience. Depends on your lane opponent.
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those are the masteries i run on ezreal, but i take improved recall over .5% movespeed lol seems more worth it, you kite well enough that ~1 MS isn't really gonna make a difference at all, while a 12.5% reduction in recall time will.
triforce first is good, but if you get pretty good early lead it's fine to go BT. gives you sustain and higher damage than triforce, you can snowball a lead better with it imo.
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Silly Lanz, you can't go Cloth 3 + 1
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United States47024 Posts
On November 20 2011 09:58 rigwarl wrote:Silly Lanz, you can't go Cloth 3 + 1
You can if you wait in base for 5 gold.
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I try to lane till i have lantern + boots the first time I go back, I mostly open with a doran's blade, sometimes cloth armor. Depending on how much you can spend it tends to be a good plan to grab cloth + boots or something like that when you go back the first time instead of rushing lantern.
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At the beginning of mlg I saw an Ezreal that was built
Wriggles > Triforce > Last whisper getting boots somewhere along the way
Is this optimal? And can we have a compilation of how different people/teams at MLG built their Ezreals?
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On November 21 2011 18:25 Bwaaaa wrote:
At the beginning of mlg I saw an Ezreal that was built
Wriggles > Triforce > Last whisper getting boots somewhere along the way
Is this optimal? And can we have a compilation of how different people/teams at MLG built their Ezreals?
This is just the new trend since World Elite's Ezreal player started it. (I believe it was IEM Guangzhou) On streams they joke around with the terms "north american ezreal" (with reference to blood thirster first).
Anywho, it is good early on vs lanes that push since ezreal can't do much dmg to minions so fast.
Wriggles is pretty awesome.
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It's been tried a lot, and tbh, it's good for the late game, but your early and mid game is too weak. Theoretically, it is an insanely good item on him, but when you apply it, you end up not doing enough damage early on. You just throw out a bunch of quick lefts with no right hook to follow up with. Urgot, and to some extent corki, are the only two that can pull it off for the duo lane. Urgot has a lot more base damage with his attacks and abilities, and still hits hard enough to be relevant for the mid game going manamune first. The same goes for corki, especially with his passive adding true damage. Ezreal needs to have some kinda pack to his punch, or a lot of sustain to be effective. Without any utility, he has to have something to keep himself alive, while still being able to contribute to the team. That is why the builds you see most are either triforce or wriggles first. Triforce gives you added mobility, some sustain, and damage, while wriggles provides a lot of sustain, vision, and some damage. Triforce also gives you 3 early/midgame timings with a sheen, phage, and the finished product. That is just how I feel in my games that I run manamune on him versus the other 2 items.
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Get mana runes instead.
No worries, be happy.
(mana per 5 lvl 18 blue's 'n yellow's I use, together with the mana masteries in utility ofc)
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I personally build Dorans-Dorans-Boots of Lucidity-Brutaliser-Triforce (starting Sheen or Phage depending on their team) and then whatever the match calls for. Having the Bruta-Lucidity Combo early-mid game makes him very powerfull in 1v1 due to his ability to spam, and gives you a much shorter CD on shift. It's all personal preference tho, and I think with Ez there are a lot of ways to go =)
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On November 25 2011 11:06 Gooey wrote:It's been tried a lot, and tbh, it's good for the late game, but your early and mid game is too weak. Theoretically, it is an insanely good item on him, but when you apply it, you end up not doing enough damage early on. You just throw out a bunch of quick lefts with no right hook to follow up with. Urgot, and to some extent corki, are the only two that can pull it off for the duo lane. Urgot has a lot more base damage with his attacks and abilities, and still hits hard enough to be relevant for the mid game going manamune first. The same goes for corki, especially with his passive adding true damage. Ezreal needs to have some kinda pack to his punch, or a lot of sustain to be effective. Without any utility, he has to have something to keep himself alive, while still being able to contribute to the team. That is why the builds you see most are either triforce or wriggles first. Triforce gives you added mobility, some sustain, and damage, while wriggles provides a lot of sustain, vision, and some damage. Triforce also gives you 3 early/midgame timings with a sheen, phage, and the finished product. That is just how I feel in my games that I run manamune on him versus the other 2 items.
I thought the big reason to go mana mune on Urgot was for the strength of spirit, and that you build tanky going into the mid late game so you don't get killed instantly if you ultimate some one channeling an ult. I could see urgot dropping manamune and just buying a cup for mana sustain against ap casters in the mid lane, and then getting a faster blood thirster or triforce while building him 9-21-0.
As for manamune on Ezreal. As long as you're not using q too much for last hitting and you're not pushing the lane you shouldn't be running oom too often. A fast sheen will increase your supply a good amount, as will running a few mana/5/level runes/ masteries. Basically Ezreal's damage from spells will stop increasing when you start to level w, and you're going to want to be ahead in the game item wise when that happens. If you're behind with a mid game champ like ez heading into the late game, you're going to need to fall into a support role who's only cc is the occational triforce proc and red buff if you've got it, making you a pretty shitty support to be quite honest. I just don't think the early mana mune is worth it as it just delays higher damaging items like sheen/bloodthirster/brutalizer or what ever else you were going to be buying.
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Ugh, I just feel like I run OOM so easily in longer engagements without the Tear. How much mana regen are you guy's running to sustain long poking sequences?
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I'll have to try it I guess, but devoting 18 runes to mana regen seems a little much. I suppose there aren't that many essential alternatives for Ezreal.
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Armor/MR is nice, but I really like the mana regen. Q spam like a boss with no downside. Scaling feels better as well, flats for things like that always kinda suck.
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I tried the setup 21-0-9 and even tho I tend to run oom when I want to push w/o using my ult or after teamfights involving long poking, I feel like it's fine. Also, starting with sapphire for fast sheen (I know a brutalizer first's better dps wise, but I try to harass with Q only in lane phase to make use of the range and avoid retaliation) gives something like 600 mana at level 1, so it's hard to run OOM if you don't spam everytime it's on cd.
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So basically, my common build for Ez is Brutalizer, Sheen, BT, TF and then LW (Boots somewhere in there, and I will add a phage instead of sheen if I feel like it). Lately, I started trying the whole Wriggle's --> TF --> LW (or BT). Is it possible to include a brutalizer in between those items. Do you think it's worth it? Also in late game, is it recommended to sell wriggle's and buy some other items that has more dmg ouput, for example's sake, say another BT?
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After IEM in China I started doing Dorans/boots+3/4 depending on matchup.
Into brutalizer, sheen TF, LW, BT. Q's really fucking hurt early game/ midgame with brutalizer and sheen and I've come to like teamcomps where I can get some blues more often a lot. Ridiculous amounts of Q spam is just so amazing if you're good with skillshots.
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I've tried out Wriggles -> TF Ez a bit lately. It's not bad if you need sustain (enemy support is a sustainer, yours isn't). Also, the proc helps a bit since you don't really have a clearing AoE other than your ult. And, of course, Dragon control/ward/etc.
It's nice, but I don't know if it goes over a Bruta as a first item. Might depend on enemy comp.
Also, I've been trying first item -> Sheen -> BFS -> TF for more auto damage early on. It's also not bad if you have the farm to cover it, but it really makes me miss the utility of TF earlier on.
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I really feel like Wriggles is a bad item on Ezreal; I'd much rather just sit on a plain scepter if I want sustain. The stats from Wriggles just really aren't that useful in a lot of his typical lane situations compared to just putting the 1100 toward your bruta and tf.
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Yeah, I kind of got that as well. Just a thought, do you ever get DBlades on him? 2 + the lifesteal passive might act as a poor man's Wriggle's on the cheap.
That said, for straight damage in a normal lane situation, Bruta -> TF is far superior heading into mid/late game.
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On December 14 2011 06:06 Craton wrote:
I really feel like Wriggles is a bad item on Ezreal; I'd much rather just sit on a plain scepter if I want sustain. The stats from Wriggles just really aren't that useful in a lot of his typical lane situations compared to just putting the 1100 toward your bruta and tf.
Wriggle's isn't a very good item on Ezreal, but I think you're giving it too much flak. the amount of Qs you can pump out for dragon really allows you to kill it ridiculously fast, and does provide a noticeable increase in damage during Barons. It still provides you with a ton of lane control as well, which is pretty important since your main job is to try and deny the enemy AD for as long as possible while hopefully your other teammates are able to do a lot of stuff with the jungler, and maybe even the support given how safe Ezreal is versus ganks.
I really just wish he didn't just roll over and die when he's against Vayne. She's so popular now...
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Has anyone considered/experimented with leveling W over E, or even over Q? It sounds odd but the attack speed debuff + much easier harassment through the creep wave could be beneficial.
Gains per level
Mystic Shot
Mana cost +5
Cooldown -0.5
Damage +20
Essence Flux
Mana cost +10
Cooldown +0
Damage +50
Buff/debuff +5%
Arcane Shift
Mana cost +0
Cooldown -2
Damage +50
It doesn't seem very clear cut between E and W for me, and even Q isn't completely ahead. I'm definetely going to experiment with running QEWWWRWQW and QEQWQRQW...
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My impression from playing AP Ezreal is that W is just too mana intensive in lane to be good for poking. It is useful though when you commit to a trade by jumping in, in which case it gives you an extra charge on your passive as well as the debuff.
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i thought the standard ezreal skilling was along the lines of r>q>w>e with a level or two in e early on, kus all you really get is reduced cooldown, which also comes with hitting q's, which actually makes the cd deceptively shorter.
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ez still too underpowered for me =(
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I first played ezreal as my main AD but stopped for a bit to try out other ADs. I feel the new heal summoner really contributed to making ez seem weak (I've seen more soraka supports making his q poke weaker through constant healing and giving the enemy AD carry a spamable AOE skill in contrast to your single target skill shot). Ezreal's burst just isn't strong enough in a dual lane to match that of Corkie, Sivir or Graves and its difficult to burn off enemy heal summoner in contrast to other AD champions.
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I'm starting to consider just a straight AD build. Like, no Sheen, no TF, just straight into BF items with maybe a Bruta or something. I keep looking at his kit. 1.0 AD scaling on Q and R, pretty good base AD and AD scaling (actually better than Cait or Trist), a free steroid, etc. You don't even need a Zeal or anything like that, since you have a 50% AS steroid for shooting stuff.
I keep trying to build him like an AD caster, but his autos with AD (and ability scaling) are fucking insane. What does late game Cait bring that he doesn't? Traps, and lower damage with only her passive to try and catch up.
Anyway, just spewing thoughts, I'll let you know how it goes.
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And a ton of range, Seriously I started Corki the other day and can't bring myself to play Ezreal over him if I want to win, he's so much better in every aspect :/
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You gain 20 more damage per point in E than you do in W, as well as 2 seconds off the CD per point. The only better thing W gives you is +5% on the attack speed debuff, but at a higher mana cost on a champ that's already mana hungry. You need to be using your E to get damage in the skirmish or you're probably going to lose the trade.
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I've been trying to do some sleuthing about this "Ezreal #1 in China" business I keep hearing about and I think I've found a pretty good lead.
Ehome TS, 2181 rating on NA, looks like he mains AD carries.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AfcHK.jpg)
His core build seems to be Zerkers (not sure when upgraded) Doran x2 > Wriggles > TF > IE
He only had one complete build I could see, adding a PD and a LW.
Not sure on runes and masteries but I'm going to try and stalk him for a bit and find out.
Looking forward to trying it out
Also, pretty impressive assuming he's playing with Chinese latency
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I remember Morello basically saying that the chinese send ezreal mid instead of bot a couple days back in the LoL forums. And we already know that works decently so maybe its not some super secret strat or build.
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Ez in a solo lane is actually really strong. I think one of his weaknesses in the duo lane meta is that he doesn't mesh as well with a support as a right click champ does, or Corki even does. Every time I get sent mid as Ez I end up winning lane with no problem, even if it's another AD in there.
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The meta is also different because all the Chinese servers are a few patches behind iirc and it's not necessarily the same as us at that same particular patch. Majority of their games finish before 30 minutes (with Ezreal in it anyway). Usually at that point, Ezreal shines best i.e. early to mid game since whereas carries like Graves and Kog outclass him late game.
I feel wriggles --> TF --> IE/LW is the most suitable build for Ezreal, and I have had huge success with it. Also I feel people put less emphasis on his autoattacks. Just because he has to spam his Q doesn't mean he shouldn't be autoattacking lol. With IE, I have no trouble when I am in close proximity in team fights.
Also, as Requizen stated, Ez mid is pretty good (If I get sent there, I go AD anyway LOL) and just bash them APs. Although against some, I have to play passive.
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JUNGLE EZREAL
WHAT SHOULD I RUN
My page right now is AD Quints & Marks, Armor Seals, MR/Lv Glyphs, and 21/9/0.
Would AS marks be better, since they speed your jungle ever so slightly but are less useful in a gank?
Would 21/0/9 work better even if I get low from red?
Wriggles -> Trinity --> IE/LW?
Wriggles -> Trinity --> BT?
Scepter --> BT?
When do you add in attack speed?
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i just bought Ezreal and he feels really weak :/
i hardly win any games ..
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On February 06 2012 01:27 Requizen wrote:
Ez in a solo lane is actually really strong. I think one of his weaknesses in the duo lane meta is that he doesn't mesh as well with a support as a right click champ does, or Corki even does. Every time I get sent mid as Ez I end up winning lane with no problem, even if it's another AD in there.
He does really well with Janna.
As Ezreal i hate playing with another support tho.
Feel like a waste indeed.
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yh, the point of botlane is sacrificing levels for safer farm, but ezreal doesn't do as well with gold as other carries but does more with levels
to be fair, though, I think Ez is the worst AD in the game at the moment, so maybe he's just too weak overall
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People say ez falls off late game because they only relay on Q spam and ult and ult doesn't do shit damage if you built straight up AD. If you carefully look at ez passive, it's actually promoting autoattack. So if you build him AD, you better build IE, LW, BT. This kind of build will allow him to solo a bruiser easily without even kiting. In team fights, his autoattack will hit really hard like 600-700 per crit.
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On February 06 2012 00:53 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
I remember Morello basically saying that the chinese send ezreal mid instead of bot a couple days back in the LoL forums. And we already know that works decently so maybe its not some super secret strat or build.
Presidency/Kriticalkill used to force ezreal mid when he was smurfing with me.
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I think I'm just gonna stop building TF for a while. It's a good item, but I actually find after a few games of it that straight AD carry and like an early Wriggles is good on him.
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yeah I've started building straight AD carry with 2/3 DB , IE, zeal, BT/LW and it feels really powerful. Your immediate burst is definitely lower than a TF->IE/BT build but only a few autos tip the scales.
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Recently I tried 2dblades into sheen then pure ad, I agree getting triforce is expensive but sheen is not and is still very good.
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The thing I hate the most is the fact that the ultimate just can't even clear a wave. It's just such a waste to know that you can defend a tower by ulting the creepwave, but you'll never be able to get more than 1 or 2 of the creep. I just wish they'd somehow change the ult so that it can actually clear a wave while building AD, because almost any other character can basically do the same with a non-ultimate aoe skill, which is just saddening.
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On February 20 2012 20:34 nojok wrote:
Recently I tried 2dblades into sheen then pure ad, I agree getting triforce is expensive but sheen is not and is still very good.
Eeh, I don't agree. If you're not building Sheen into something, it really scales off later on. Early on, it's great, you get a "free extra auto" from having it. Later, though, your base AD doesn't scale as well as AD items and if you're using that Sheen proc on Q, it can't crit (I don't know if Sheen proc can crit anyway). I think, but know that I'm not exactly an authority on the matter, that if you're not planning on getting TF (or Lichbane on other champs), Sheen is a waste that boosts your burst a bit during the midgame only to fall off quickly.
On another note, I'm up in the air about Zeal/PD on him. On one hand, of course they're great items that give Crit/AS/MS, so yeah, good. On the other hand, he has a built in Flash and AS buff, so I don't know if it's as necessary to buy them as it is on, like, Cait or Graves or whatever. I like having it on him, but I don't know if I should go BT-PD or BT-LW/IE-PD.
And yeah, full AD Ez is working so well for me. Maybe it's just playstyle, but I honestly just don't ever lose to TF Ezreals and I feel stronger against other AD laners than I did before. I still think he works better in a solo lane than a duo bot, but he works well with aggressive supports lately (Leona mostly).
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@requizen I am going like IE->zeal->BT/LW and THEN a PD instead of getting a PD immediately after IE. Maybe you can try that. You do need a PD for your third item if just because of crits later on but early focusing more on AD is better.
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On February 21 2012 06:49 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 20:34 nojok wrote:
Recently I tried 2dblades into sheen then pure ad, I agree getting triforce is expensive but sheen is not and is still very good. Eeh, I don't agree. If you're not building Sheen into something, it really scales off later on. Early on, it's great, you get a "free extra auto" from having it. Later, though, your base AD doesn't scale as well as AD items and if you're using that Sheen proc on Q, it can't crit (I don't know if Sheen proc can crit anyway). I think, but know that I'm not exactly an authority on the matter, that if you're not planning on getting TF (or Lichbane on other champs), Sheen is a waste that boosts your burst a bit during the midgame only to fall off quickly. On another note, I'm up in the air about Zeal/PD on him. On one hand, of course they're great items that give Crit/AS/MS, so yeah, good. On the other hand, he has a built in Flash and AS buff, so I don't know if it's as necessary to buy them as it is on, like, Cait or Graves or whatever. I like having it on him, but I don't know if I should go BT-PD or BT-LW/IE-PD. And yeah, full AD Ez is working so well for me. Maybe it's just playstyle, but I honestly just don't ever lose to TF Ezreals and I feel stronger against other AD laners than I did before. I still think he works better in a solo lane than a duo bot, but he works well with aggressive supports lately (Leona mostly).
It's more about getting a later triforce, sheen then IE BT or TF, it depends if you feel u need the extra ms and the slow or more lifesteal. It's maybe not optimal, I pick EZ when I have to and I prefer sololanes so i can adapt my ad carry to what they've picked and I pick him when they have lot of gap closers because his E is great. So I'm not expereienced EZ. I used to prefer Corki but I feel less team dependant to play ez.
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Buying Doran's Blade and Sheen, then selling them later is less of a loss than selling 3 Doran's Blades. It's not a big deal if you gotta sell a midgame item or two.
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Sure, I can see that. I guess it depends on how much I'm fighting mid-game. Sheen is good if you're just poking and exchanging as such, but I don't think it's necessary if you're in a passive lane or against someone who can shrug off the hits and ignore you.
As for getting TF late, I don't really like it. If you have an AD build (BT/IE/LW/PD in whatever grouping and order), you'll have MS/AS/Crit/AD in much higher numbers, so what you get from TF isn't huge. The 150% base AD proc isn't huge once there's a decent amount of armor on the field, plus you'll already have a bunch more just from AD items. If you really feel like you need the slow proc, just make sure you get Red. I mean, yeah, you'll never always have Red, but you can reliably have it for most fights.
TF is a mid game power item, the only people you get it late on are tanky bruisers who don't get any other damage items. I admit it's great if you're running around being aggressive and skirmishing mid-game, but later on for an AD carry, it's not something I find super necessary.
On a different note, I actually like Wriggle's on him lately, maybe with 1 DBlade or just boots. The proc helps his super slow clearing, and the lifesteal helps a bit in exchanges. Plus, you know, free ward. It's probably sub-optimal math-wise, but I feel like the utility and safety you get from it just makes it a good pick.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
I watched CLG vs Dignitas from the Crs Invitational, and saw qtpie get a Black Cleaver on Ezreal. Can someone explain to me why? I feel that the AS bonus from hitting skillshots was pretty solid already, and thus it would be much better to go BT or TF first.
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Can you tell me what items he had in the end (if you remember)? I didn't watch the Invitational.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
his final items were QSS, Zerk greaves, IE, BT, TF, and BC
He built his TF after the BC, and the BT after the TF. IE was finished last
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On February 26 2012 02:58 3 Lions wrote:
I watched CLG vs Dignitas from the Crs Invitational, and saw qtpie get a Black Cleaver on Ezreal. Can someone explain to me why? I feel that the AS bonus from hitting skillshots was pretty solid already, and thus it would be much better to go BT or TF first.
You can stack it really fast with q, and the armor redux is solid so maybe that's why.
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There's a timing window in which most characters that later build armour don't have it yet (especially gp5 junglers). Cleaver is just super good during that period which also coincides with what naturally is Ezreals and Corkis strongest point during the game.
I don't know exactly how much worse the math for BC is compared to LW after people get a significant amount of armour, but I guess it also depends on what kind of runes he was running (I suppose he used 16AD on Ez which would make it even worse than 25pen).
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If you're running APen Marks/Quints and have the 10% mastery your opponents must stack 143.6 Armor before LW becomes better than BC (not factoring in ramp up time). So there's a significant portion of the game where you're not really worse off for having BC, even against many tanks.
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Noob Question
Is the item build in the OP still a good choice?
I've been following it, and I do very well early game, going like in the last game going 5-0, and feel really strong. Then it goes downhill, and at like 20 minute mark I feel like I'm not doing very well any more. And then I end up at like 5-8 at the end, which doesn't sound bad but it's 5 kills in a row then 8 deaths in a row.
It may well be that I'm playing incorrectly, but I haven't had this issue with other champions. I just feel kinda weak.
But yeah, love this champion. Feels way more fun than others I've played, kind of more apm spammable too, feels "busier" than Malzahar and Kassadin which are the other two I'd played more of.
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On March 10 2012 08:33 Deadeight wrote:
Noob Question
Is the item build in the OP still a good choice?
I've been following it, and I do very well early game, going like in the last game going 5-0, and feel really strong. Then it goes downhill, and at like 20 minute mark I feel like I'm not doing very well any more. And then I end up at like 5-8 at the end, which doesn't sound bad but it's 5 kills in a row then 8 deaths in a row.
It may well be that I'm playing incorrectly, but I haven't had this issue with other champions. I just feel kinda weak.
But yeah, love this champion. Feels way more fun than others I've played, kind of more apm spammable too, feels "busier" than Malzahar and Kassadin which are the other two I'd played more of.
meh imo
Your exp sounds typical considering EZ is quite weak. He is very strong early and mid but after that he isn't that great. You have to build a lot of AD on him to make him do dps lategame. That or try to dominate early and mid, hope to get fed somewhat and try to end the game before everyone else catches up exp and gold wise
i honestly never really like trinity on him considering how expensive it is. the cost for the utility of TF to me doesnt seem that awesome.
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On March 10 2012 08:33 Deadeight wrote:
Noob Question
Is the item build in the OP still a good choice?
I've been following it, and I do very well early game, going like in the last game going 5-0, and feel really strong. Then it goes downhill, and at like 20 minute mark I feel like I'm not doing very well any more. And then I end up at like 5-8 at the end, which doesn't sound bad but it's 5 kills in a row then 8 deaths in a row.
It may well be that I'm playing incorrectly, but I haven't had this issue with other champions. I just feel kinda weak.
But yeah, love this champion. Feels way more fun than others I've played, kind of more apm spammable too, feels "busier" than Malzahar and Kassadin which are the other two I'd played more of.
Ez is good but suffers from the fact that corki exists who's basically just a better version of him.
The op is from back when ADs would solo mid. It can still work but few people get bruta on Ez anymore. Also most people get zerkers on him now not cdr boots. Common Ezreal builds include bt into trinity which is stronger midgame but weaker late. Other people build him standard ad with infinity/PD.
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On March 10 2012 08:42 heroyi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:33 Deadeight wrote:
Noob Question
Is the item build in the OP still a good choice?
I've been following it, and I do very well early game, going like in the last game going 5-0, and feel really strong. Then it goes downhill, and at like 20 minute mark I feel like I'm not doing very well any more. And then I end up at like 5-8 at the end, which doesn't sound bad but it's 5 kills in a row then 8 deaths in a row.
It may well be that I'm playing incorrectly, but I haven't had this issue with other champions. I just feel kinda weak.
But yeah, love this champion. Feels way more fun than others I've played, kind of more apm spammable too, feels "busier" than Malzahar and Kassadin which are the other two I'd played more of. meh imo Your exp sounds typical considering EZ is quite weak. He is very strong early and mid but after that he isn't that great. You have to build a lot of AD on him to make him do dps lategame. That or try to dominate early and mid, hope to get fed somewhat and try to end the game before everyone else catches up exp and gold wise i honestly never really like trinity on him considering how expensive it is. the cost for the utility of TF to me doesnt seem that awesome.
Ah ok. Well that's a little disappointing as I enjoyed him, or at least I enjoy him for the first half of the game.
Is there a similar, well balanced champion I could look into?
EDIT: @overt answered my question it seems, thanks.
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Ez is definitely fun and is completely viable. So if you like him play him. He isn't as easy or faceroll as other AD carries but if you're good with him you'll carry games at any level of play. Try building him standard AD with IE/PD/LW. It's a bit easier and you'll be just as strong as most other ADs.
But yeah corki really strong too if you're looking into other ADs.
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On March 10 2012 09:10 overt wrote:
Ez is definitely fun and is completely viable. So if you like him play him. He isn't as easy or faceroll as other AD carries but if you're good with him you'll carry games at any level of play. Try building him standard AD with IE/PD/LW. It's a bit easier and you'll be just as strong as most other ADs.
But yeah corki really strong too if you're looking into other ADs.
Yeah just looked at the IEM OP and Ezreal has been picked or banned 10 times (admittedly corki has been 21 times). But if it's good enough for someone at that level it's more than good enough for me, I'll just get better and build like you say.
Should I be volunteering for mid then? I always just tend to go bottom, I'd found mid quite hard especially vs champs like ahri, as I can't hit them with Q with minions in the way. At bottom/top you can always use bushes and manoeuvre well enough.
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I have a couple of Ezreal games on my own3d.tv channel. Figure I might as well post one in here if anyone wants to watch. I'd consider myself a decent Ezreal player.
Here's a 4v5 game :D
http://www.own3d.tv/video/499697/ShakeDrizzle__Ezreal_4v5___
edit: Maybe a lil too much apen lol. Should have gone IE instead of BC that game. O well hindsight.
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I've really started to like IE on ezreal. BT dmg is obv great for your Q but nothing beats critting someone's face off. I get wriggles for my lifesteal or just 1 vamp scepter if I'm feeling like a baws.
Dblade (boots if with non-heal support)
Boots (dblade if with non-heal support)
Wriggles
Sheen
Finish Triforce
IE
LW
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Quick question. I need another AP carry in my repertoire, and I've been considering AP Ez.
About how effective is he ATM?
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On April 29 2012 11:06 Praetorial wrote:
Quick question. I need another AP carry in my repertoire, and I've been considering AP Ez.
About how effective is he ATM?
not very
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On April 29 2012 11:06 Praetorial wrote:
Quick question. I need another AP carry in my repertoire, and I've been considering AP Ez.
About how effective is he ATM?
If you need another AP Carry in your repertoire, you should learn the following, in this order:
+ Show Spoiler +Morgana, Ryze, Ahri, Cassiopeia, Brand
Once you have these under your belt, the rest don't matter at much. I say this because these are your 'God Tier' AP Mids and knowing how to play these 5 champions can usually result in knowing how to counter any AP Mid/Jungler Combo you'll go against. Especially the Morgana, Ryze, Cassiopeia.
That being said, you should learn these because they are the most versatile, hardest to kill, and easiest to play. If you're having to ask which AP to learn, I'm assuming you're under 1500 Elo, so play only these 5 champions if you want to [i]win[i]. You'll have the highest success rate.
Now... for fun AP Mids... I'd have to suggest the following:
[spoiler]
- Ziggs - Spams spells & very harass based. One of the most APM intensive champions during laning phase w/ BB.
- Twisted Fate - He' svery active. Jumps around alot, APM intensive. You'll stay busy.
- Lux - It's really satisfying gettng a Baron steal with her Ultimtae. She's also very effective in lane with Blue Buff. She falls off VERY hard in the 40+ minute games, but that will rarely happen in the Sub-1600 Elo games because people don't know how to farm properly. She's also good at picking people off who are alone in the jungle with her full combo, then you can force an easy 4v5 teamfight.
- Heimerdinger - Despite what the masses will tell you, this guy is a powerhouse with the current meta. People like playing AP Mids who get KILLS EARLY(Ryze, Brand, Veigar). These champions do HORRIBLE against Heimerdiner. Their lanes will be pushed to their tower since they can't push creep waves out easily. As long as you ward both sides of river properly, you'll shut down their AP Mids. People have also been favoring running 2 AD's lately. If that's the case Heimer also does well because he can blind both of them during teamfights. Don't underestimate this guy if you know how to play him properly.
[/spoiler]
TL;DR - Ezrael should be one of the last AP's you learn if you want to win.
(Spoiler tags, how do they work?)
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On April 29 2012 11:06 Praetorial wrote:
Quick question. I need another AP carry in my repertoire, and I've been considering AP Ez.
About how effective is he ATM?
He's okish, not as good as most but not useless, just ask shakedrizzle.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 03 2012 05:20 Rainbow Cuddles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 11:06 Praetorial wrote:
Quick question. I need another AP carry in my repertoire, and I've been considering AP Ez.
About how effective is he ATM? If you need another AP Carry in your repertoire, you should learn the following, in this order: + Show Spoiler +Morgana, Ryze, Ahri, Cassiopeia, Brand Once you have these under your belt, the rest don't matter at much. I say this because these are your 'God Tier' AP Mids and knowing how to play these 5 champions can usually result in knowing how to counter any AP Mid/Jungler Combo you'll go against. Especially the Morgana, Ryze, Cassiopeia. That being said, you should learn these because they are the most versatile, hardest to kill, and easiest to play. If you're having to ask which AP to learn, I'm assuming you're under 1500 Elo, so play only these 5 champions if you want to win. You'll have the highest success rate.
Now... for fun AP Mids... I'd have to suggest the following:
[spoiler]
- Ziggs - Spams spells & very harass based. One of the most APM intensive champions during laning phase w/ BB.
- Twisted Fate - He' svery active. Jumps around alot, APM intensive. You'll stay busy.
- Lux - It's really satisfying gettng a Baron steal with her Ultimtae. She's also very effective in lane with Blue Buff. She falls off VERY hard in the 40+ minute games, but that will rarely happen in the Sub-1600 Elo games because people don't know how to farm properly. She's also good at picking people off who are alone in the jungle with her full combo, then you can force an easy 4v5 teamfight.
- Heimerdinger - Despite what the masses will tell you, this guy is a powerhouse with the current meta. People like playing AP Mids who get KILLS EARLY(Ryze, Brand, Veigar). These champions do HORRIBLE against Heimerdiner. Their lanes will be pushed to their tower since they can't push creep waves out easily. As long as you ward both sides of river properly, you'll shut down their AP Mids. People have also been favoring running 2 AD's lately. If that's the case Heimer also does well because he can blind both of them during teamfights. Don't underestimate this guy if you know how to play him properly.
[/spoiler]
TL;DR - Ezrael should be one of the last AP's you learn if you want to win.
(Spoiler tags, how do they work?)
I'm sorry, but calling any champion APM intensive in this game is a bit silly. I'm a bit late to the whole MOBA thing, and there hasn't been a single hero or champion that I've felt like I'm just too slow to play. You're also praising heimerdinger, so I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're genuinely new. Ryze, Brand, and Veigar can all outscale Heimer by just farming; they don't even need to kill him. There's also no way he can push out brand, and he can't push out a Veigar who maxes W first (Take ALL the wraiths!) without running both of you out of mana. He's probably more effective than AP ezreal, but you're giving him way too much credit besides that.
Morgana is highly overrated. She's VERY strong with how obnoxious black shield is, but she can't carry games unless your mid opponent has downs, and learning her is pointless because if you're at an elo where you don't know what is strong and what is not, then she's probably banned every game because people are still banning the same stuff they were 6 months ago. She gets banned because black shield is dumb as fuck, not because she's strong as 1200 elo players tend to think.
Ryze and Ahri ARE kings in solo queue; I can agree with that, and everyone knows how strong they are. Cassiopeia is also ridiculously strong, but there's a huge disparity in the amount of time you need to spend learning her to consistently do well every game compared to Ryze, Karthus, Mordekaiser, etc.
Brand is strong, but he's not played much because of how hard he falls off as soon as anyone builds any sort of MR.
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In response to the original question, building ezreal AP just feels like a waste. AP ez works, but, honestly, [i]I believe there's nothing in this game that's actually useless (besides evelynn). Riot talked about giving AP ezreal some buffs a while ago, so maybe he'll be a strong contender after that. Until then, building ezreal as anything other than AD will be suboptimal and highly disadvised unless you [i]really need to play something gimmicky.
If you want to play Ezreal mid, AD works just as fine. He's highly mobile, he can take full advantage of blue buff, and if you're lucky your lane opponent won't even have armor runes. Some people tend to call any sort of AD mids a cheesy play, but compared to talon and pantheon he's definitey a more solid choice in terms of safety. He doesn't have the burst or AoE that most mid lanes tend to bring to the table, which is why you don't really see it too often.
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I've started to get Black Cleaver first on Ez. So much fun, especially against Graves.or a Leona bot, and especially if I've got a good ganking jungler.
Boots 2HP 1Mana start
BC
Scepter
Sheen/Phage depending on if I need the slow
Lucidity Boots
Finish Triforce
PD
It does feel a bit gimmicky though, as I usually go either 12-3 or 4-6. Any thoughts?
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I love the shit out of black cleaver, but I've been doing something more like
Boots 3hp
3 dorans
AS boots
Black Cleaver (get BF sword before AS boots unless you're starved for money)
Phantom Dancer
The game usually ends before or soon after phantom dancer because black cleaver is just SO STRONK, but with this build I feel like ezreal is the best duelist of any AD carry until the late, late, late game. After the phantom dancer I'll usually go for a bloodthirster if I feel like fights are being drawn out and I need the sustain, or an infinity edge if I need the deeps and nothing but the deeps.
25% boots + 30% BC + 55% + PD + 50% 5 stacks of passive = 160% bonus attack speed. Your Q is basically another autoattack too if properly threaded. So yeah, you're just putting out 150-250 damage autos twice per second with a chance to crit, and 300 damage Q's between some of them. That's a lot of damage. (This is assuming you just have 3 doran/as boots/cleaver/PD which is the point where the other ad will have IE completed and either zeal or a finished PD)
I don't think that the vamp scepter is necessary, you have 12% lifesteal from the 3% mastery and 9% dorans blades. I feel like any ezreal builds involving triforce or CDR are gimmicky, but that's just my opinion and they're definitely usable. I strongly advise you to start trying to avoid buying them, though, if only to see how much of a crutch they can potentially be.
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I've been playing ezreal with the standard, dorans/boots opening farm up 1500 gold to get an inventory looking like boots1or2, 2xdorans, and vamp scepter. Then get either bf sword or sheen prioritizing bloodthirster if bf, or triforce if sheen depending on farm. finished build usually looks like boots, triforce, bt, pd, lw, ga/bv/qss
Hitting a q and getting a phage proc from it will allow you to secure kills that may have otherwise got away. Triforce shouldn't be overlooked.
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Well when I'm really trolling I go 3 BF sword lol. IE, BC, BT. Poppin Q for 500 is fun!
I don't think Triforce is a crutch on Ez for the following reasons:
- The slow from Phage really helps me play more aggressive, and with BC ez can Out-duel most other ADs (and some of the weaker junglers if you run exhaust like I do). The extra health (and scepter) means I can skip the dorans completely if I win my lane hard early enough to buy a BF on the first back.
- The Sheen procs add another Autoattack's worth of damage ever time you Q, and with Lucidity boots you're throwing a Q every time Sheen's proc CD is up. The Mana helps you stay in lane a little longer too if you aren't laning with soraka (which you should always be with Soraka or Cow).
- The only attack speed you really need is the Zeal at that stage thanks to Ez's passive. Going Zerks+PD is overkill because so much of your damage comes from Q, which isn't affected by AS.
Sometimes I skip PD altogether and build Zeke's Herald out of my scepter. Its a weird Item that gives me survivability, sustain, and CDR, and helps my team in midgame teamfights. It really works well to just make Ez the most dominant midgame ad carry, and carries over well into late-game when I start to fall off into more of a support role (keeping every enemy shredded to -45 armor, baiting with E, using W, and just Poke Poke Poke).
EDIT: You really don't need bloodthirster with Ezreal if you have Scepter+Sheen (and especially if you have Zekes), because you can just Poke you health back up since Q applies Lifesteal. Q range is so long there is no way for them to stop you.
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On March 10 2012 09:10 overt wrote:
Ez is definitely fun and is completely viable. So if you like him play him. He isn't as easy or faceroll as other AD carries but if you're good with him you'll carry games at any level of play. Try building him standard AD with IE/PD/LW. It's a bit easier and you'll be just as strong as most other ADs.
But yeah corki really strong too if you're looking into other ADs.
how is corki good compared to other AD? I have been wondering after watching OGN tournies and theres Corki every game and only a few with ezreal/graves
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On May 04 2012 03:19 justiceknight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:10 overt wrote:
Ez is definitely fun and is completely viable. So if you like him play him. He isn't as easy or faceroll as other AD carries but if you're good with him you'll carry games at any level of play. Try building him standard AD with IE/PD/LW. It's a bit easier and you'll be just as strong as most other ADs.
But yeah corki really strong too if you're looking into other ADs. how is corki good compared to other AD? I have been wondering after watching OGN tournies and theres Corki every game and only a few with ezreal/graves
Corki is IMO one of the stronger AD carrys with good positioning he melts everything, lol.
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I am trying to get an AD carry in my repertoire.... Ezreal is on sale for another 12 hours or so, so should I grab him? Currently I only own Tristana (never play her, I hate her animation), Ashe, and Caitlyn; I don't play them that often because I like to play AP mid (and that supports in soloQ are either brain-dead or non-existent), but I figured once I start playing ranked games seriously I might want to have a greater set of champions. So is Ezreal an even remotely good pick in ranked?
I vaguely remember Vayne was on sale a few weeks back. I truly regret not getting her back then.
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Ezreal is extremely good in solo queue imo because his early/mid-game is among the strongest and he snowballs extremely well in mid-game if you stomp your lane. He's also a very safe pick if your support happens to be shit, because of double dash (E+flash).
I also don't get why nobody picks him more often in tournaments especially with the hard focus on mid-game atm.
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On May 19 2012 08:38 Sponkz wrote:
Ezreal is extremely good in solo queue imo because his early/mid-game is among the strongest and he snowballs extremely well in mid-game if you stomp your lane. He's also a very safe pick if your support happens to be shit, because of double dash (E+flash).
I also don't get why nobody picks him more often in tournaments especially with the hard focus on mid-game atm.
Because he's difficult to play and pros resist learning the difficult to play champs unless that cham is stupidly OP. They dont want to spend the time learning him
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I actually forgot about genja. He's been playing him some recently :p
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After getting stomped playing as Ezreal on the bottom lane, I discovered that AP Ezreal is surprisingly fun - and viable, too. His E makes his laning phase in mid very strong.
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On May 25 2012 05:34 Sufficiency wrote:
After getting stomped playing as Ezreal on the bottom lane, I discovered that AP Ezreal is surprisingly fun - and viable, too. His E makes his laning phase in mid very strong.
I thought AP Ez maxed W to abuse damage through creeps.
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On May 19 2012 09:41 P-body wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 08:38 Sponkz wrote:
Ezreal is extremely good in solo queue imo because his early/mid-game is among the strongest and he snowballs extremely well in mid-game if you stomp your lane. He's also a very safe pick if your support happens to be shit, because of double dash (E+flash).
I also don't get why nobody picks him more often in tournaments especially with the hard focus on mid-game atm. Because he's difficult to play and pros resist learning the difficult to play champs unless that cham is stupidly OP. They dont want to spend the time learning him
wtf are you talking about, all the pros can play ezreal just fine from back when his w used to heal, he's just not as strong as other dps in certain regards and it's harder to fit him into a team as compared to say, graves or ashe or kogmaw
also corki is trash now, he suffers from the same problems as ezreal, weak range lategame and getting outbursted by newer dps early.
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On May 25 2012 07:36 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 09:41 P-body wrote:On May 19 2012 08:38 Sponkz wrote:
Ezreal is extremely good in solo queue imo because his early/mid-game is among the strongest and he snowballs extremely well in mid-game if you stomp your lane. He's also a very safe pick if your support happens to be shit, because of double dash (E+flash).
I also don't get why nobody picks him more often in tournaments especially with the hard focus on mid-game atm. Because he's difficult to play and pros resist learning the difficult to play champs unless that cham is stupidly OP. They dont want to spend the time learning him wtf are you talking about, all the pros can play ezreal just fine from back when his w used to heal, he's just not as strong as other dps in certain regards and it's harder to fit him into a team as compared to say, graves or ashe or kogmaw also corki is trash now, he suffers from the same problems as ezreal, weak range lategame and getting outbursted by newer dps early.
The introduction of graves really hurt imo. He does what they do in midgame but better, has a better lane phase, and a better late game with his AS steroid.
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As someone who plays Ezreal a lot, I found this article interesting:
http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/prant/20627-ezreal-which-skill-should-you-be-maxing
He claims that maxing W over Q on AD Ezreal is actually more potent, since you can harass with it through minions, it gains more base damage through leveling than Q, and the AS debuff reduces the amount of damage you take during trades.
I'm not sure I totally agree (the CDR from leveling Q and high mana costs of W still making me lean towards Q first), but it's an interesting idea. However, as someone who goes R>Q>E>W, I may consider R>Q>W>E if not R>W>Q>E after seeing the effectiveness of W.
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On June 08 2012 01:57 Zenithal wrote:As someone who plays Ezreal a lot, I found this article interesting: http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/prant/20627-ezreal-which-skill-should-you-be-maxingHe claims that maxing W over Q on AD Ezreal is actually more potent, since you can harass with it through minions, it gains more base damage through leveling than Q, and the AS debuff reduces the amount of damage you take during trades. I'm not sure I totally agree (the CDR from leveling Q and high mana costs of W still making me lean towards Q first), but it's an interesting idea. However, as someone who goes R>Q>E>W, I may consider R>Q>W>E if not R>W>Q>E after seeing the effectiveness of W.
Completely lane dependant. If you've got a soraka, w first no matter what. If their support is short range or the ad is not bursty early, w first. If their ad IS bursty early, get q first to poke from range
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On June 08 2012 01:57 Zenithal wrote:As someone who plays Ezreal a lot, I found this article interesting: http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/prant/20627-ezreal-which-skill-should-you-be-maxingHe claims that maxing W over Q on AD Ezreal is actually more potent, since you can harass with it through minions, it gains more base damage through leveling than Q, and the AS debuff reduces the amount of damage you take during trades. I'm not sure I totally agree (the CDR from leveling Q and high mana costs of W still making me lean towards Q first), but it's an interesting idea. However, as someone who goes R>Q>E>W, I may consider R>Q>W>E if not R>W>Q>E after seeing the effectiveness of W.
You go OOM if you don't have Soraka. If you do however, that shit is really really good, especially since people aren't used to avoiding W like they are used to juking Qs.
A 40% AS debuff can mean about 30% damage reduction on heros like Vayne too. For 5 whole seconds.
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Has anyone tried the maxing W first build yet? It's really hard to tell from just reading, I need like +10 games to decide if it's good or not.
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On June 26 2012 14:41 mel_ee wrote:
Has anyone tried the maxing W first build yet? It's really hard to tell from just reading, I need like +10 games to decide if it's good or not.
It's all I play. Hitting through creeps feels great. If your opponent is decent, they can avoid Qs but just standing in creeps and getting all the last hits they want. W can also hit multiple champs and buff you, and buff your partner or gank or whatever other champion if you line it up properly. All while doing comparable damage.
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On June 26 2012 22:38 Felnarion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 14:41 mel_ee wrote:
Has anyone tried the maxing W first build yet? It's really hard to tell from just reading, I need like +10 games to decide if it's good or not. It's all I play. Hitting through creeps feels great. If your opponent is decent, they can avoid Qs but just standing in creeps and getting all the last hits they want. W can also hit multiple champs and buff you, and buff your partner or gank or whatever other champion if you line it up properly. All while doing comparable damage.
Especially if you go sheen first.
I think I prefer my Q-focused Black Cleaver Ezreal though
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On May 25 2012 05:34 Sufficiency wrote:
After getting stomped playing as Ezreal on the bottom lane, I discovered that AP Ezreal is surprisingly fun - and viable, too. His E makes his laning phase in mid very strong.
AP Ezreal is really good once he gets to Lichbane+Deathcap. Problem is getting there. You simply cannot deal with someone pushing on AP Ezreal.
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On June 26 2012 22:38 Felnarion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 14:41 mel_ee wrote:
Has anyone tried the maxing W first build yet? It's really hard to tell from just reading, I need like +10 games to decide if it's good or not. It's all I play. Hitting through creeps feels great. If your opponent is decent, they can avoid Qs but just standing in creeps and getting all the last hits they want. W can also hit multiple champs and buff you, and buff your partner or gank or whatever other champion if you line it up properly. All while doing comparable damage.
what item build are you going for first?
for me I am trying the sheen --- > blood thirster --- > tri force
as for some of the games, I find that hitting more than 2 champs with W is well worth it.
a lot of players are caught off guard thinking i will naturally do my Q first so they hide behind a minion then the W happens and ohhh ya
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Even Q-first ezreal benefits a fair bit by opening any longer trades vs autoattack-heavy carries with his W, that attack speed debuff isn't fucking around.
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W is what makes ezreal viable
win trades, buff your entire team to kill towers in 1 creepwave, and mutilate bruisers and junglers in teamfights with the HUGE debuff.
i still don't believe in maxing it first (not my playstyle at all,) but i definitely max it before E.
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IMO maxing W is way better than maxing Q. I'd only max Q first if you're with someone like taric and are going to do a lot of blink -> melee bursting where they won't be able to dodge the Qs. If the lane is trade-y maxing W is far better, it's like having a free superpowered nunu.
(Without Soraka you just need to not use W for pure harrass and merely to crush every trading situation)
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How comes, ezreal is so super popular these days? Not that long ago he had fallen from grace. I don't mind becuse I really like playing him, he's such a fun champ.
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On August 22 2012 17:18 Argoth. wrote:
How comes, ezreal is so super popular these days? Not that long ago he had fallen from grace. I don't mind becuse I really like playing him, he's such a fun champ.
Maxing W wins trades, and people figured that out.
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On August 22 2012 17:39 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 17:18 Argoth. wrote:
How comes, ezreal is so super popular these days? Not that long ago he had fallen from grace. I don't mind becuse I really like playing him, he's such a fun champ. Maxing W wins trades, and people figured that out.
This. And that his E is absolutely broken in a teamfight.
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And Pulsefire. I love that skin and don't regret buying it, but goddamn it brought out a lot of shitty Ez players looking to justify their money.
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On June 27 2012 05:05 Shikyo wrote:
IMO maxing W is way better than maxing Q. I'd only max Q first if you're with someone like taric and are going to do a lot of blink -> melee bursting where they won't be able to dodge the Qs. If the lane is trade-y maxing W is far better, it's like having a free superpowered nunu.
(Without Soraka you just need to not use W for pure harrass and merely to crush every trading situation)
But W is also significantly more burst than Q... So even with Taric, where your support is setting up burst situations, W is still great.
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Something else to note is that Ezreal has been EXTREMELY CONSISTENTLY winning at 53% in ranked games for at least a month now. He is currently the ADC with the highest win rate (Compared to Graves around 50%, MF hovering around 51-53%, Corki/Ashe around 49%, and Vayne around 45-47%).
I think he might need a small nerf.
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Win rates aren't always the best thing to go off of.
It also depends on what you're balancing around. In solo queue, an aggressive bot lane often wins over a passive one because of how solo queue works. Ezreal is a great aggressive laner who works with nearly any support, so of course he's great there. Passive farmers like Kog, for instance, tend not to do as well, because of lack of warding, map awareness, and team play.
Ez is also very much suited for solo play because he doesn't really require a team around him. Again, a Kog with a team is much more dangerous than an Ez with one, I'd say, but a Kog with a bad team (can't peel, no CC, etc) is going to seem useless in comparison. Ez's kit - with burst, mobility, and range - is well suited to playing solo queue and succeeding. That doesn't make him broken.
He may be a bit on the strong side, I'll admit, but I don't think he's deserving of a nerf any time soon.
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On August 22 2012 17:39 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 17:18 Argoth. wrote:
How comes, ezreal is so super popular these days? Not that long ago he had fallen from grace. I don't mind becuse I really like playing him, he's such a fun champ. Maxing W wins trades, and people figured that out.
I think the main thing, that we were talking about here or in the GD one, was people realized you can right click and have a spell other than q for damage
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On August 23 2012 01:18 Requizen wrote:
Win rates aren't always the best thing to go off of.
It also depends on what you're balancing around. In solo queue, an aggressive bot lane often wins over a passive one because of how solo queue works. Ezreal is a great aggressive laner who works with nearly any support, so of course he's great there. Passive farmers like Kog, for instance, tend not to do as well, because of lack of warding, map awareness, and team play.
Ez is also very much suited for solo play because he doesn't really require a team around him. Again, a Kog with a team is much more dangerous than an Ez with one, I'd say, but a Kog with a bad team (can't peel, no CC, etc) is going to seem useless in comparison. Ez's kit - with burst, mobility, and range - is well suited to playing solo queue and succeeding. That doesn't make him broken.
He may be a bit on the strong side, I'll admit, but I don't think he's deserving of a nerf any time soon.
Ofc win % is not the only thing. It was an addendum to his W trading power and his blink.
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On August 23 2012 03:20 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 01:18 Requizen wrote:
Win rates aren't always the best thing to go off of.
It also depends on what you're balancing around. In solo queue, an aggressive bot lane often wins over a passive one because of how solo queue works. Ezreal is a great aggressive laner who works with nearly any support, so of course he's great there. Passive farmers like Kog, for instance, tend not to do as well, because of lack of warding, map awareness, and team play.
Ez is also very much suited for solo play because he doesn't really require a team around him. Again, a Kog with a team is much more dangerous than an Ez with one, I'd say, but a Kog with a bad team (can't peel, no CC, etc) is going to seem useless in comparison. Ez's kit - with burst, mobility, and range - is well suited to playing solo queue and succeeding. That doesn't make him broken.
He may be a bit on the strong side, I'll admit, but I don't think he's deserving of a nerf any time soon. Ofc win % is not the only thing. It was an addendum to his W trading power and his blink.
I just don't know what you can really do with W. If you nerf the AS slow too much, it becomes what everyone thought it was originally, a useless AP nuke that only is there to shoot through minions. It's really his big selling point right now, that he can duel every AD because of W. He's comparatively weak in teamfights when you look at Kog/Vayne/Ashe/etc. But that's just my opinion.
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On August 23 2012 03:23 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 03:20 Sufficiency wrote:On August 23 2012 01:18 Requizen wrote:
Win rates aren't always the best thing to go off of.
It also depends on what you're balancing around. In solo queue, an aggressive bot lane often wins over a passive one because of how solo queue works. Ezreal is a great aggressive laner who works with nearly any support, so of course he's great there. Passive farmers like Kog, for instance, tend not to do as well, because of lack of warding, map awareness, and team play.
Ez is also very much suited for solo play because he doesn't really require a team around him. Again, a Kog with a team is much more dangerous than an Ez with one, I'd say, but a Kog with a bad team (can't peel, no CC, etc) is going to seem useless in comparison. Ez's kit - with burst, mobility, and range - is well suited to playing solo queue and succeeding. That doesn't make him broken.
He may be a bit on the strong side, I'll admit, but I don't think he's deserving of a nerf any time soon. Ofc win % is not the only thing. It was an addendum to his W trading power and his blink. I just don't know what you can really do with W. If you nerf the AS slow too much, it becomes what everyone thought it was originally, a useless AP nuke that only is there to shoot through minions. It's really his big selling point right now, that he can duel every AD because of W. He's comparatively weak in teamfights when you look at Kog/Vayne/Ashe/etc. But that's just my opinion.
Put the mana cost back where it was before they randomly buffed it? Now that people realized that it isn't a garbage skill, they'll be more willing to pay more mana for it.
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On August 23 2012 03:23 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 03:20 Sufficiency wrote:On August 23 2012 01:18 Requizen wrote:
Win rates aren't always the best thing to go off of.
It also depends on what you're balancing around. In solo queue, an aggressive bot lane often wins over a passive one because of how solo queue works. Ezreal is a great aggressive laner who works with nearly any support, so of course he's great there. Passive farmers like Kog, for instance, tend not to do as well, because of lack of warding, map awareness, and team play.
Ez is also very much suited for solo play because he doesn't really require a team around him. Again, a Kog with a team is much more dangerous than an Ez with one, I'd say, but a Kog with a bad team (can't peel, no CC, etc) is going to seem useless in comparison. Ez's kit - with burst, mobility, and range - is well suited to playing solo queue and succeeding. That doesn't make him broken.
He may be a bit on the strong side, I'll admit, but I don't think he's deserving of a nerf any time soon. Ofc win % is not the only thing. It was an addendum to his W trading power and his blink. I just don't know what you can really do with W. If you nerf the AS slow too much, it becomes what everyone thought it was originally, a useless AP nuke that only is there to shoot through minions. It's really his big selling point right now, that he can duel every AD because of W. He's comparatively weak in teamfights when you look at Kog/Vayne/Ashe/etc. But that's just my opinion.
He's only weaker in teamfights under ideal situations for Kog/Ashe. Last night I beat an Ez in lane pretty handily as Kog (2 Kills, ~ 35 CS), but in teamfights he didn't need peels, so if my flash was down we lost. Also, people somehow think standing in R and W is a good idea in SoloQ.
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Can't seem to beat Ezreal in lane for the life of me...
Any tips for facing him (besides dodging shit)? I tend to do best with Corki, but if it's something like Ez/Taric I just can't dodge anything and get bullied out of lane all day.
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Play Cait. Everyone's forgotten about her.
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I personally like picking sivir against ezreal over caitlyn. Skillshot vs skillshot but you have a truck of a skillshot that'll do 1/3rd of his health early vs a few pinprick skillshots.
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Has Ezreal's E priority for champions over minions?
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On August 24 2012 20:29 Argoth. wrote:
Has Ezreal's E priority for champions over minions?
Nope. Nearest target. It would be so broken for AP ezreal if it was champion priority.
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On August 24 2012 16:53 Lmui wrote:
I personally like picking sivir against ezreal over caitlyn. Skillshot vs skillshot but you have a truck of a skillshot that'll do 1/3rd of his health early vs a few pinprick skillshots.
her skillshot is good but her ability to bait out Q/E for free mana is even better
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Do you still max W after the slight nerf ? I just completly suck with Ez it's quite frustrating, need tips (I'm at 1500 elo and usually play kog / vayne / graves / MF, or jungler)
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On September 04 2012 07:15 WhiteDog wrote:
Do you still max W after the slight nerf ? I just completly suck with Ez it's quite frustrating, need tips (I'm at 1500 elo and usually play kog / vayne / graves / MF, or jungler)
Yes.
Max rwqe, poke with w and q, harass harass harass, all in burst.
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On September 04 2012 07:15 WhiteDog wrote:
Do you still max W after the slight nerf ? I just completly suck with Ez it's quite frustrating, need tips (I'm at 1500 elo and usually play kog / vayne / graves / MF, or jungler)
They didn't nerf the strength of the W which was mostly in the Atk Spd slow. The fact an ADC has one is very strong and makes for much better trading. You do have to try harder to aim it and it may not pack as much of a punch, but it might be the difference of landing an extra set of harass before the all-in.
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So as of right now, what do you max? A buddy and I are in a bit of a debate. He says max Q, I say W because the AS buff is obviously really nice.
But what about after the W nerf? Still W?
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On October 26 2012 06:46 Dalguno wrote:
So as of right now, what do you max? A buddy and I are in a bit of a debate. He says max Q, I say W because the AS buff is obviously really nice.
But what about after the W nerf? Still W?
Not W anymore, except situationally. W's strength in lane was winning every trade because you removed all their AS and buffed your own. Now, it's primary use is a second nuke and using it to deal damage through the minion wave. Maybe if you're laning against someone who's trying to just sit behind the wave and farm, you can max W to constantly harass them while staying pretty safe yourself, but it's not the ultimate trading tool that it was beforehand.
That said, I could be wrong. W has more damage per level than Q, and Q's main power is the poking prowess on top of proc'ing Sheen/TF and AD scaling, none of which relies on levels. There may still be something to maxing W to take advantage of the damage it gets from levels, while holding off on Q because it gets more damage from items.
I think I'll try W max for a few more games to see if the damage is still worth taking, even without the AS debuff. If not, back to Q>E>W with one point in W by ~4-5.
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How do you guys build ezreal nowadays? I've been having a lot of success with mallet after IE, but then again I've gotten fed in my last four games.
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On February 24 2013 05:06 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
How do you guys build ezreal nowadays? I've been having a lot of success with mallet after IE, but then again I've gotten fed in my last four games.
bt/iceborn/health/arpen
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Boots/bloodthirster/shiv/iceborn gauntlet/Last Whisper/situational defensive item (or IE if you know you can forego defenses without getting squashed).
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On February 24 2013 06:38 zer0das wrote:
Boots/bloodthirster/shiv/iceborn gauntlet/Last Whisper/situational defensive item (or IE if you know you can forego defenses without getting squashed).
i honestly believe getting any atk speed items on ez is a waste. with enough cdr, you shoot ur mystic shot every 2 sec. you also gain alot of temp atk speed through ur passive. and you can just arcane shift away if you get caught
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On February 24 2013 07:29 Lightswarm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 06:38 zer0das wrote:
Boots/bloodthirster/shiv/iceborn gauntlet/Last Whisper/situational defensive item (or IE if you know you can forego defenses without getting squashed). i honestly believe getting any atk speed items on ez is a waste. with enough cdr, you shoot ur mystic shot every 2 sec. you also gain alot of temp atk speed through ur passive. and you can just arcane shift away if you get caught
Feels like you hit alot harder without an Atk speed item, esp if youre good at hitting your skillshots(which you should be at 5 stacks constantly when a teamfight starts if you hit your ult and use w though)
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Shiv isn't really for the attack speed, it's primarily for the chain lightning. Nearly every time you land a q on them, you hit multiple champions due to it. Really strong in mid-game teamfights.
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On February 24 2013 08:16 zer0das wrote:
Shiv isn't really for the attack speed, it's primarily for the chain lightning. Nearly every time you land a q on them, you hit multiple champions due to it. Really strong in mid-game teamfights.
ye, but with iceborn, as long as you land your q, you are hitting multiple targets and slowing them
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On February 24 2013 09:09 Lightswarm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 08:16 zer0das wrote:
Shiv isn't really for the attack speed, it's primarily for the chain lightning. Nearly every time you land a q on them, you hit multiple champions due to it. Really strong in mid-game teamfights. ye, but with iceborn, as long as you land your q, you are hitting multiple targets and slowing them
you can waveclear faster when you don't have ult up
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ive seen alot of pro go bt then lw.
But also in debate is IE then lw,
What u guys think for pure dps dmg?
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shiv first on ezreal?
or the new ruined king first on ezreal?
thoughts?
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On March 03 2013 17:03 .ImchEEzy wrote:
shiv first on ezreal?
or the new ruined king first on ezreal?
thoughts?
?
Nah. I wouldn't rush Static Shiv on Ezreal. Dont synergize well with his kit at all. Every time he lands spell he gets freee attack speed, so why would you rush attack speed? Attack speed is multiplicative with attack damage itself and crit chance, so no reason to just stack attack speed.
Just BT rush much stronger on ezreal. I'd even debate that even though new BotRK super strong, just plain old BT might be better considering the ration on Ez' Q,
Only champ I'd rush Static Shiv on would be like maybe Vayne or Kogmaw, and thats just because they have either huge free AD steroids, or % damage. EVen then, with current BotRK in game, just get BotRK first.
/shrug.
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So I've been playing a bit of ezreal every now and then and I've tried the following build: Dorans -> BotRK -> Boots 2 -> LW -> TriForce/IE -> IE/Triforce
I'm mainly concerned about the first 2 big items I build. Is this a decent mid game comp?
Another thing is, I played vs a Taric/Graves lane and I went LW first. Is that a good idea when against that comp or is BC or standard better?
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On March 03 2013 17:03 .ImchEEzy wrote:
shiv first on ezreal?
or the new ruined king first on ezreal?
thoughts?
No point in rushing shiv for Ezreal. Ezreal needs AD, especially for his q. Ezreal is more skill shot based then AA DPS in my opinion. Rushing BT gives sustain and a lot of AD for his Q. Botrk first isn't as good either. Once again, Ezreal needs the AD, not the attack speed or the passive on Botrk. More AD = better Q = better poke = dead opponents.
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both shiv and botrk gives better Q than BT
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I'd rather take BT than BotRK, BotRK is more for AA champs and Ez already has an AS steroid with his passive..
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Wx(best Ezreal) seems to be doing BT -> Shiv in almost every game with Ezreal.
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Where could I find Weixiao's VOD?
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Awesome, thanks for the translation.
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Serious question: is maxing E stronger than maxing Q first on ezreal?
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On April 11 2013 05:11 Juicyfruit wrote:
Serious question: is maxing E stronger than maxing Q first on ezreal?
If you are playing AP...
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On April 11 2013 05:44 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 05:11 Juicyfruit wrote:
Serious question: is maxing E stronger than maxing Q first on ezreal? If you are playing AP...
Even then it's very debatable. Q has a much lower cooldown and can apply lich bane on hit (and malady) to effectively increase its scaling, and the scaling just from base ad boosts its damage as well + Show Spoiler +(you can get 2-3 q off in the cooldown of max e. 2 q casts cost less mana, do 45 less base damage(5 per rank), have .35 less ap scaling, but have 2.0 ad scaling. That means to outdo the ad scaling off just your base ad (50.2-101.2 *2 q casts = ~100-200), you need ~157-450 ap (295 at lvl 9). If you buy a sheen, then it's nigh impossible to outstrip the damage on two cheaper and faster q's with e's ap scaling)
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On April 11 2013 06:09 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 05:44 sob3k wrote:On April 11 2013 05:11 Juicyfruit wrote:
Serious question: is maxing E stronger than maxing Q first on ezreal? If you are playing AP... Even then it's very debatable. Q has a much lower cooldown and can apply lich bane on hit (and malady) to effectively increase its scaling, and the scaling just from base ad boosts its damage as well + Show Spoiler +(you can get 2-3 q off in the cooldown of max e. 2 q casts cost less mana, do 45 less base damage(5 per rank), have .35 less ap scaling, but have 2.0 ad scaling. That means to outdo the ad scaling off just your base ad (50.2-101.2 *2 q casts = ~100-200), you need ~157-450 ap (295 at lvl 9). If you buy a sheen, then it's nigh impossible to outstrip the damage on two cheaper and faster q's with e's ap scaling) , so q will likely do more dps even going ap until late game (basically, ad, even your base, is worth so much more to your q than ap is to your e, that it's not worth it to raise e first). It can also easily be argued that W is better to raise first in an ap build for safe poke harass through minions, especially if not building lich bane early. E is ezreal's escape, using it for harass/damage is generally not a good idea unless you are certain that it's safe; it's got a long cd at first, is hard to aim in lane so it targets an enemy champ behind minions(it targets the closest enemy unit), puts you in range of counter harass, and leaves you vulnerable without an escape. AP builds usually aren't spectacular on ez anyway, though lich bane can be powerful on q.
I though he meant W, yeah I would max Q>E in an AP build too. the per level scaling on both is terrible, Q is slightly better.
AP ezreal is obscenely strong lategame if you can get him there, he just farms poorly and provides no utility until rylai
his Q is on like a 2.5 seconds CD with a .95 AP ratio (lichbane)
Essence flux .8 ap ratio on 5.5second CD base
Shift on .75 ap ratio on 7 second CD base
.9 ratio on ult, 48 second CD base base
...and his Q reduces all of them by a second every one you land. All good base damages, absolutely absurd ap ratios and damage output and completely impossible to catch when E is on a functional 4-5 second CD and procs full rylai
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On April 07 2013 19:45 Shikyo wrote:
Wx(best Ezreal) seems to be doing BT -> Shiv in almost every game with Ezreal.
Not a bad build, but the reason he goes SS is to have faster wave clear, which is suuuper important in the SEA meta, which puts heavy emphasis on waveclear and objective securing. The soloqueue 'meta' on NA (and likely EU, but I don't know that one for sure) has the lane phase extend out much longer - and suddenly, the wave clear from SS becomes a liability as you can no longer freeze the lane where you want, and are more prone to jungle ganks.
By far the best build I have with Ez is:
AD reds, Armor Yellows, MR/lvl blues, Lifesteal quints
19/0/11 masteries for the lifesteal in utility
Start Doran's blade, build second if necessary.
Rush trinity force by path of phage -> sheen -> TF (the upgrade only costs 3 so you should never be sitting on the zeal as well). Only get boots if you can't afford a Trinity component - at 10% MS on trinity, it actually gives you about 10 more MS than boots.
After TF, build infinity edge, then last whisper. The remaining two slots can be used for game relevant survivability items (usually QSS is one of them).
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I think no having waveclear on an AD carry is detrimental to your team because when you run off to farm a few waves mid-game your creepline isn't going to move forward much at all. My personal opinion but I prefer applying constant pressure rather than opt for safety. When the enemy team is 5-man pressuring another lane you're going to be pulled away from farming anyways.
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On April 17 2013 03:51 Juicyfruit wrote:
I think no having waveclear on an AD carry is detrimental to your team because when you run off to farm a few waves mid-game your creepline isn't going to move forward much at all. My personal opinion but I prefer applying constant pressure rather than opt for safety. When the enemy team is 5-man pressuring another lane you're going to be pulled away from farming anyways.
While SS far and away is the best waveclear item for ADC, it's not like you completely lack waveclear with a trinity rush. The 150% spellblade bonus lets you oneshot minions with Q, and once you start the IE buildpath the combination of oneshotting casters while AAing the rest with Ez's passive AS bonus is still really quick. And if you need to clear a wave with urgency, you can still ulti it. That said, if you utterly lack waveclear ability (like vayne), the SS is a lot more appealing.
The issue I have in general with BT builds, esp BT/SS, is that you're dedicating yourself to and your team to push their advantage immediately - which is perfectly fine if you're on a coordinated 5-man team (with good shotcalling), but in soloqueue it can turn into randomly throwing away a lead because your team doesn't react/group/pressure properly and you're left with subpar lategame items.
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sheen>boot>BT>ibg> IE/LW/Defense item
seems to be really solid on Ezreal. Spamming q with cd and good mana.
I prefer this over BT>ss
what do you guys think
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On April 17 2013 06:50 .ImchEEzy wrote:
sheen>boot>BT>ibg> IE/LW/Defense item
seems to be really solid on Ezreal. Spamming q with cd and good mana.
I prefer this over BT>ss
what do you guys think
It runs the issue on being low on damage, which is a problem with Ezreal regardless. Only works well if your team can make use of the utility while forgoing the damage.
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I generally build ezreal two ways, standard ADC with
boots+BF>BT>SS>LW>surviability>IE (I value the straight autoattack damage more)
If I'm going a sheen based build (I very rarely do it on AD carry ezreal) I generally prefer grabbing a lot of CDR to go with it, going (in no particular order)
cdr boots+cleaver+IBG(39% CDR with masteries) + LW, muramana, BT
It's excellent against teams with longish cd gap closers. Much better on a toplane ezreal than AD carry ezreal though since it takes so long for you to build up the items
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Anyone tried GRB on Ez? I could see a hybrid build on him working respectably well.
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On April 17 2013 10:03 Tooplark wrote:
Anyone tried GRB on Ez? I could see a hybrid build on him working respectably well.
The problem with GRB on ezreal is that it doesn't really get him much of what he wants. AP ez wants CDR>AP to continuously spam QWE while AD ezreals either want AD+crit+AS or AD+CDR+arpen. While efficient, it's very quickly outscaled by any other item ezreal could get in its place.
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Does anyone know what is up with the wave of Ezreals I see who rush spirit of the elder lizard? I see this happening across the elo spectrum.
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thanks for the translation! who's your Flash friend btw?
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Ezreal feels ridiculously weak to me lately. I've yet to lose to one in season 3, and everytime I play him I get tossed in the dumpster.
Should I try BT - Shiv for higher damage? It just feels like throughout the whole game I'm tickling them if I go Triforce.
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On April 17 2013 15:31 TheLastRaven wrote:
Does anyone know what is up with the wave of Ezreals I see who rush spirit of the elder lizard? I see this happening across the elo spectrum.
It's a sort of poke build. You go:
Dorans -> Tear -> Sheen -> Vamp -> Iceborn Gauntlet -> Lucidity Boots -> Elder Lizard -> Muramana -> LW -> BotRK
It's very fun to play.
Edit: Fixed build path
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On April 19 2013 10:59 olabaz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 15:31 TheLastRaven wrote:
Does anyone know what is up with the wave of Ezreals I see who rush spirit of the elder lizard? I see this happening across the elo spectrum. It's a sort of poke build. You go: Dorans -> Tear -> Sheen -> Vamp -> Iceborn Gauntlet -> Lucidity Boots -> Elder Lizard -> Muramana -> LW -> BotRK It's very fun to play. Edit: Fixed build path
I actually saw this build on stream yesterday and came here to learn more about it...
It seems so safe and fun to play, however you do lose dmg.
I think its very situational, you might want to go this build when you have quite a bit of dmg on your team already.
The idea is that you become this godly mobile kiter adc with fast E's and ~1sec Q's, also your range becomes just insane since you don't want to AA as much as usual .
P.S. Botrk makes no sense in this build, you will definitely want to go BT. Since the nerfs even more so...aaaaaa
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So, after seeing the 'new' ezreal build 3 times in the dig vs GGU game, what are the opinions on it? Which items do you build and in what order? Masteries? Runes? It looks really cool and i want to try it but don't know exactly how to build him. Also it seems to me that your lategame potential is absolutely zero if you use this build. Any opinions?
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On April 27 2013 23:41 Immortall wrote:
So, after seeing the 'new' ezreal build 3 times in the dig vs GGU game, what are the opinions on it? Which items do you build and in what order? Masteries? Runes? It looks really cool and i want to try it but don't know exactly how to build him. Also it seems to me that your lategame potential is absolutely zero if you use this build. Any opinions?
I love this build but it is a little situational. Only go this build if your top lane, or the rest of your team, is dealing a lot of damage. If top mainly has CC, then don't go this build.
My build is:
Dorans Blade -> Elder Lizard ->Tear -> Sheen -> Iceborn Gauntlet -> Lucidity Boots -> Muramana -> LW (good if everyone is stacking health/tanky)/BT(good for sustain)/Defense item if needed (aka feeding or enemy AP carry/ADC killing everyone)
And get a Vamp scepter anytime after Elder Lizard if you feel like you need sustain.
Runes are standard ADC runes except Lifesteal Quints. You need these to improve your sustain in lane. Always rush for Elder Lizard. If you feel you are needing more AD or get poked down in lane, get health pots and Elixir of Fortitude.
Late game potential seems lackluster, but if you use this build to it's full potential it won't be. After getting Tear, spam any of your abilities (usually Q and E) every 3 seconds to get that bonus mana. The bonus mana is essential to getting Muramana, which gives you extra physical damage and increases your lategame potential. If you don't know how to skillshot, then don't use this build at all. It relies on you landing your Q's.
Main point of the build:
This has been going on in the asian servers for a while. Basically, the build focuses on CDR, Poke, and Kiting. Rushing Spirit of the Lizard Elder gives a lot of good early game stats that you can abuse to push the lane, prevent the lane from being pushed, and gives you sustain. I think the usual build is to get a tear of the goddess afterwards and then sheen. Tear gives you mana and you need the bonus mana to fully utilize the muramana later for the end game. This is important since this build does not give as much AD initially compared to the standard AD. The IG really helps with poking and kiting for team fights and gives Ezreal CC and CDR. With this build, you want to use your Q a loooot. At the full build, it'll be Q --> auto --> Q. It's just that fast. One thing that I don't like about this build is the lack of tenacity and the difference in AD with the normal ADC build. When you can, get Elixir of Fortitude since it gives you health and some extra AD.
Look at some of this guy's past games to see how he plays (might take some time to search though):
http://www.twitch.tv/never_loses
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Thanks for the explanation! I've tried the build a few times (without LS quints tho, i'm poor) and i really like it. It's really bad if you're behind tho. I like to go lizard -> vamp -> sheen -> iceborn or when fed tear before
Then after that manamune and lw and cdr boots somewhere in there. It's really cool, strong and fun to play and i recommend it to anyone who likes ezreal 
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It's called the Bebe build from what I've seen around Youtube, named after TPA Bebe.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
In Korea they are just calling it the "blue ezreal" build, since the core items are all items with a blue-background. (Lucidity boots, Elder Lizard, Muramana, Iceborn Gauntlet, LW). It does do less burst-dmg than a straight up BT/LW build, but the real strength is in the true dmg proc from the elder lizard during mid game... it burns like a mother fucker when u get hit by 2-3 Q's, and makes it really safe for ez to farm. Plus when u try to farm from a far with ult in minion waves and you leave like a sliver of health left on them, the burn will often kill them off for you.
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I would say the strength is more that ezreal is incredible slippery with a insanly low cooldown arcane shift
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Not to mention you can trueshot barrage every 30 seconds basically :D
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When you should build blue Ezreal:
-Your team is running a poke comp. (Jayce/Lux/Nid etc.)
-Your team already has good damage and you do not expect them to peel for you (Kha'zix top, Karthus mid, Jungle Zed etc.)
-The enemy team has a AD Assassin-heavy or dive comp (Kha Zix/Zed/Talon mid, J4 jungle)
When you should NOT go blue:
-You have a "protect the adc" comp that already provides plenty of protection against diving threats and is relying on you to dish out damage. (Shen top, Orianna mid, Nautilus jungle, Alistar support)
-You are going up against a AP-heavy team with no divers against which you don't need kiting and the armor you bought with your Iceborn Gauntlet is wasted. (Rumble top, Lux mid, Amumu/Sejuani/Nautilus jungle)
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On May 18 2013 08:15 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
When you should build blue Ezreal:
-Your team is running a poke comp. (Jayce/Lux/Nid etc.)
-Your team already has good damage and you do not expect them to peel for you (Kha'zix top, Karthus mid, Jungle Zed etc.)
-The enemy team has a AD Assassin-heavy or dive comp (Kha Zix/Zed/Talon mid, J4 jungle)
When you should NOT go blue:
-You have a "protect the adc" comp that already provides plenty of protection against diving threats and is relying on you to dish out damage. (Shen top, Orianna mid, Nautilus jungle, Alistar support)
-You are going up against a AP-heavy team with no divers against which you don't need kiting and the armor you bought with your Iceborn Gauntlet is wasted. (Rumble top, Lux mid, Amumu/Sejuani/Nautilus jungle)
In your 2 examples for not going blue you just shouldn't be picking ezreal period. If your team is relying on you to do damage you need someone with higher DPS like vayne/kog/trist. If they don't have divers then you don't need ezreal's self-reliability and can go for a higher DPS option.
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On May 18 2013 13:18 LazyFailKid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 08:15 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
When you should build blue Ezreal:
-Your team is running a poke comp. (Jayce/Lux/Nid etc.)
-Your team already has good damage and you do not expect them to peel for you (Kha'zix top, Karthus mid, Jungle Zed etc.)
-The enemy team has a AD Assassin-heavy or dive comp (Kha Zix/Zed/Talon mid, J4 jungle)
When you should NOT go blue:
-You have a "protect the adc" comp that already provides plenty of protection against diving threats and is relying on you to dish out damage. (Shen top, Orianna mid, Nautilus jungle, Alistar support)
-You are going up against a AP-heavy team with no divers against which you don't need kiting and the armor you bought with your Iceborn Gauntlet is wasted. (Rumble top, Lux mid, Amumu/Sejuani/Nautilus jungle)
In your 2 examples for not going blue you just shouldn't be picking ezreal period. If your team is relying on you to do damage you need someone with higher DPS like vayne/kog/trist. If they don't have divers then you don't need ezreal's self-reliability and can go for a higher DPS option.
I thought the deciding factor was whether or not your team can hold down the game long enough for you to get items.
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On May 18 2013 13:18 LazyFailKid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2013 08:15 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
When you should build blue Ezreal:
-Your team is running a poke comp. (Jayce/Lux/Nid etc.)
-Your team already has good damage and you do not expect them to peel for you (Kha'zix top, Karthus mid, Jungle Zed etc.)
-The enemy team has a AD Assassin-heavy or dive comp (Kha Zix/Zed/Talon mid, J4 jungle)
When you should NOT go blue:
-You have a "protect the adc" comp that already provides plenty of protection against diving threats and is relying on you to dish out damage. (Shen top, Orianna mid, Nautilus jungle, Alistar support)
-You are going up against a AP-heavy team with no divers against which you don't need kiting and the armor you bought with your Iceborn Gauntlet is wasted. (Rumble top, Lux mid, Amumu/Sejuani/Nautilus jungle)
In your 2 examples for not going blue you just shouldn't be picking ezreal period. If your team is relying on you to do damage you need someone with higher DPS like vayne/kog/trist. If they don't have divers then you don't need ezreal's self-reliability and can go for a higher DPS option. Honestly I feel like you're underestimating Ezreal's damage. If you're the ONLY threat on your team, your teamcomp sucks even if you're a hypercarry.
Ezreal has a quite a bit of midgame damage and if he goes closer to standard ADC builds (IE-PD/Triforce-LW-BORK/BT) his damage output is quite high even late.
- You have a +50% AS boost that you can keep up, plus an "extra autoattack" pretty constantly,
- A lot of poke (regardless of build),
- Pretty solid dueling even against high range carries.like Kog or Trist if you get the jump on them (literally).
- Your mid/late game burst is actually one of the highest among ADCs (Losing only to like, Graves and Sivir)
- Good teamfight (MF beats you here, whatever.) Trueshot is particularly good here because it basically stacks your passive instantly while dealing a considerable amount of upfront damage. Then you just keep up 50% AS. And give allies +AS. You're unlikely to get bruiser'd down, even if the enemy team is stupidly dive-heavy.
I'd almost definitely pick Ezreal against something like Rumble Lux. That's a lot of ranged instakill power that I want to be able to easily dodge. Going as a low range (vayne) or more immobile (Varus, MF) sounds really scary in those situations.
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damn blue ezreal is not a joke
Kite all day every day. Champions with gap closers couldnt keep up with me which I felt was awesome. The only problem I had , in which I believe this build to be worthless against, was Morgana and Yi. Other than that I felt like this build is the way to go to make him a hard carry in solo q.
His dps is tremendous as its sustaining assuming you can land your skillshots. Late game full build is not a joke and does not fall off noticeably. The utility from this build makes him extremely valuable in teamfights especially since he can create a soft aoe cc. Honestly I would almost recommend playing him blue exclusively except in cases where you fall behind.
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It's a good counter to the heavy AD teams as well because you end up with like 152 armor or something from IBG and that makes it pretty hard to burst you with physical damage.
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On June 03 2013 10:45 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
It's a good counter to the heavy AD teams as well because you end up with like 152 armor or something from IBG and that makes it pretty hard to burst you with physical damage.
Yea i noticed that too which was a very nice surprise. In the end you can make him much tankier, which will make him a godlike with the kite, once you trade away the elder item for something although I have no idea what would make a good substitute.
off topic:
No idea what the build path is. I like to finish the elder first as teh passive and stats is OP for the mid game but I find him lackluster without his cd and IBG. imo he feels weak without those three items (lucidity, IBG, elder). Once I get those combined with Tear and LW I feel like a god just kiting all day except again maybe against a good sensible yi
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On June 04 2013 00:57 heroyi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 10:45 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
It's a good counter to the heavy AD teams as well because you end up with like 152 armor or something from IBG and that makes it pretty hard to burst you with physical damage. Yea i noticed that too which was a very nice surprise. In the end you can make him much tankier, which will make him a godlike with the kite, once you trade away the elder item for something although I have no idea what would make a good substitute. off topic: No idea what the build path is. I like to finish the elder first as teh passive and stats is OP for the mid game but I find him lackluster without his cd and IBG. imo he feels weak without those three items (lucidity, IBG, elder). Once I get those combined with Tear and LW I feel like a god just kiting all day except again maybe against a good sensible yi
there are a few variants of the build
- dorans
- long swords, spirit stone (in this order) -> elder lizard
then it branches
even or winning?)
- tear immedately
- fit in a vamp when you can
- cdr shoes (ideally in one buy, get a mana crystal or the longsword for your vamp if you die and don't have 1k)
- sheen + glacial (either order depending on need) -> iceborn
- last whisper
- upgrade tear to manamune when near full or after LW
- 6th item botrk, upgrade your vamp to cutlass at the same time as you sell dorans if you want to keep your total lifesteal and AD about the same
losing severely?)
- bloodthirster
- cdr shoes
- glacial, sheen (in that order) -> iceborn
- /ff
the reason you skip the manamune is because it will never get enough charge to be worth it before the game snowballs if you are losing badly. if you look at probuilds you generally only see this variant in games that end up surrender at 20 games where the guy playing ezreal lost. trying to tear at all when the game has gotten out of control doesn't work because its a long term investment and you need damage now and not later
the thing about blue ez is there really isnt anything you can swap elder lizard out for, because the burn damage procs off iceborn gauntlet's slowing field. the only possible candidate to keep your CDR at 40% would be a black cleaver but it seems like the synergy between elder and iceborn is just so good that going to cleaver doesnt even improve your damage, really the only way you can up your damage if the game gets to 60 min is to bank up so much gold you can sell all your shit for a normal 6 item adc build in one buy and even then it is questionable if the range tradeoff is worth the extra damage vs the sorts of comps you want to play blue ez against to begin with
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I've been toying around with a 'American Ezreal' build (as the items all have a blue, red, or white color motif) that is basically a fusion of the normal (aka Red) Ezreal adc build and the new Blue Ezreal build out of Korea.
The core idea behind it is that there's 2-3 major components out of each build (Red Ez wants Bloodthirster and either Infinity Edge or Phantom Dancer, Blue Ez wants Elder Lizard, Muramana, and Iceborn Gauntlet), so why not just do that and faceroll everyone you see?
Honestly, I've yet to figure out what the item sequencing is, if it's even viable, it's strengths/weaknesses, etc. My gut feeling is that you need to start with Boots + potions for sustainability in lane, go into Berserker Greaves for better/faster CS, then get Elder Lizard. Afterwards, go BT -> Muramana -> Iceborn Gauntlet -> IE or Dancer. I also feel like this build is very glass cannon-y, and requires a ton of gold (current math says you need almost 11.5k just for all the items, not including pots or other purchases), which means your CS has to be near 100% in lane, which is pretty unlikely for non-pros.
I guess another option couple be replacing Gauntlet with Phage/Frozen Mallet, for a bit of HP/survivability in lategame.
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On June 04 2013 15:38 Kinie wrote:
I've been toying around with a 'American Ezreal' build (as the items all have a blue, red, or white color motif) that is basically a fusion of the normal (aka Red) Ezreal adc build and the new Blue Ezreal build out of Korea.
The core idea behind it is that there's 2-3 major components out of each build (Red Ez wants Bloodthirster and either Infinity Edge or Phantom Dancer, Blue Ez wants Elder Lizard, Muramana, and Iceborn Gauntlet), so why not just do that and faceroll everyone you see?
Honestly, I've yet to figure out what the item sequencing is, if it's even viable, it's strengths/weaknesses, etc. My gut feeling is that you need to start with Boots + potions for sustainability in lane, go into Berserker Greaves for better/faster CS, then get Elder Lizard. Afterwards, go BT -> Muramana -> Iceborn Gauntlet -> IE or Dancer. I also feel like this build is very glass cannon-y, and requires a ton of gold (current math says you need almost 11.5k just for all the items, not including pots or other purchases), which means your CS has to be near 100% in lane, which is pretty unlikely for non-pros.
I guess another option couple be replacing Gauntlet with Phage/Frozen Mallet, for a bit of HP/survivability in lategame.
Eh. Probably better to do:
1. Blue Build > Sell SOTEL when you are rich for IE/BT + Blue pot/buff for 40% cdr
The reasoning behind your build is kinda weird I think. The strengths of Blue Ez and "red" (more likely just ADC Ez) are a bit incompatible. One being poke, the other AA.
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Just do the Doublelift variation and get Thirster before finishing manamune
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I just do regular Ezreal, except I rush a Lizard in lane.
Doranx2->Lizard->Vamp Scepter->IE->BT.
Figure already have huge attackspeed steroid, but want both crit scaling and lifesteal asap. Best of all worlds.
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On June 05 2013 09:14 iCanada wrote:
I just do regular Ezreal, except I rush a Lizard in lane.
Doranx2->Lizard->Vamp Scepter->IE->BT.
Figure already have huge attackspeed steroid, but want both crit scaling and lifesteal asap. Best of all worlds.
yeah but that defeats the whole point of the build
the point of the build is the one two punch of the iceborn aoe applying elder lizard and cdr not only being more effective the more of it you get but also being an exploitable stat on ezreal with his flat 1 sec cdr reduction when he hits Q
if you are going Elder IE BT first off your LW is going to be outrageously late and second off you are going to have to auto people a lot with this build and if you are just sitting there autoing people then elder lizard's proc is not very good and it just becomes a sustain item
if you want to do a blue ez build where you still auto a lot, then do doublelift's variant, where he went BT first then got his tear and iceborn
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On June 04 2013 15:38 Kinie wrote:
I've been toying around with a 'American Ezreal' build (as the items all have a blue, red, or white color motif) that is basically a fusion of the normal (aka Red) Ezreal adc build and the new Blue Ezreal build out of Korea.
The core idea behind it is that there's 2-3 major components out of each build (Red Ez wants Bloodthirster and either Infinity Edge or Phantom Dancer, Blue Ez wants Elder Lizard, Muramana, and Iceborn Gauntlet), so why not just do that and faceroll everyone you see?
Honestly, I've yet to figure out what the item sequencing is, if it's even viable, it's strengths/weaknesses, etc. My gut feeling is that you need to start with Boots + potions for sustainability in lane, go into Berserker Greaves for better/faster CS, then get Elder Lizard. Afterwards, go BT -> Muramana -> Iceborn Gauntlet -> IE or Dancer. I also feel like this build is very glass cannon-y, and requires a ton of gold (current math says you need almost 11.5k just for all the items, not including pots or other purchases), which means your CS has to be near 100% in lane, which is pretty unlikely for non-pros.
I guess another option couple be replacing Gauntlet with Phage/Frozen Mallet, for a bit of HP/survivability in lategame.
Where's your Last Whisper.
I think BT Triforce could potentially return as a super high damage poke that doesn't suck at autoing as much as blue ez. Or anything that subs in Triforce for IBG in search of damage at the cost of utility. It's only a loss of 10% CDR, which you can make up in multiple ways: Brutalizer (up there with elder lizard in powerful early buys - almost as much damage for 700 less gold) or Blue Buff are the ones that come to mind.
I'm actually rather surprised how little we see Brutalizer on these poke-based ezreal builds. Muramana even synergizes very effectively with Black Cleaver (The muramana proc applies its own stack, seperate from the Q or Auto that provided it)
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On June 05 2013 14:58 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 15:38 Kinie wrote:
I've been toying around with a 'American Ezreal' build (as the items all have a blue, red, or white color motif) that is basically a fusion of the normal (aka Red) Ezreal adc build and the new Blue Ezreal build out of Korea.
The core idea behind it is that there's 2-3 major components out of each build (Red Ez wants Bloodthirster and either Infinity Edge or Phantom Dancer, Blue Ez wants Elder Lizard, Muramana, and Iceborn Gauntlet), so why not just do that and faceroll everyone you see?
Honestly, I've yet to figure out what the item sequencing is, if it's even viable, it's strengths/weaknesses, etc. My gut feeling is that you need to start with Boots + potions for sustainability in lane, go into Berserker Greaves for better/faster CS, then get Elder Lizard. Afterwards, go BT -> Muramana -> Iceborn Gauntlet -> IE or Dancer. I also feel like this build is very glass cannon-y, and requires a ton of gold (current math says you need almost 11.5k just for all the items, not including pots or other purchases), which means your CS has to be near 100% in lane, which is pretty unlikely for non-pros.
I guess another option couple be replacing Gauntlet with Phage/Frozen Mallet, for a bit of HP/survivability in lategame. Where's your Last Whisper. I think BT Triforce could potentially return as a super high damage poke that doesn't suck at autoing as much as blue ez. Or anything that subs in Triforce for IBG in search of damage at the cost of utility. It's only a loss of 10% CDR, which you can make up in multiple ways: Brutalizer (up there with elder lizard in powerful early buys - almost as much damage for 700 less gold) or Blue Buff are the ones that come to mind. I'm actually rather surprised how little we see Brutalizer on these poke-based ezreal builds. Muramana even synergizes very effectively with Black Cleaver (The muramana proc applies its own stack, seperate from the Q or Auto that provided it) i tried brutalizer once
like i said in my previous post its the interaction between iceborn and elder which is the main thing that makes this build so broken, and you need an awful lot of physical damage slamming on a target for the armor shred to match the true damage burn, and losing the huge midgame mana regen spike elder provides really hurts
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I've been wondering, what if you replace the LW with an IE for blue ez? Would the crits make up for the armor pen?
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On June 05 2013 15:12 RavenLoud wrote:
I've been wondering, what if you replace the LW with an IE for blue ez? Would the crits make up for the armor pen?
No, cus you cant Crit Q, and never really get to auto, and dont have outside crit chance.
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On June 05 2013 14:58 sylverfyre wrote:
Where's your Last Whisper.
I think BT Triforce could potentially return as a super high damage poke that doesn't suck at autoing as much as blue ez. Or anything that subs in Triforce for IBG in search of damage at the cost of utility. It's only a loss of 10% CDR, which you can make up in multiple ways: Brutalizer (up there with elder lizard in powerful early buys - almost as much damage for 700 less gold) or Blue Buff are the ones that come to mind.
I'm actually rather surprised how little we see Brutalizer on these poke-based ezreal builds. Muramana even synergizes very effectively with Black Cleaver (The muramana proc applies its own stack, seperate from the Q or Auto that provided it)
Last Whisper can be the 6th item I guess, so you'll have a bit less overall AD but be able to shred people to bits in a few seconds.
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On June 05 2013 16:09 Kinie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 14:58 sylverfyre wrote:
Where's your Last Whisper.
I think BT Triforce could potentially return as a super high damage poke that doesn't suck at autoing as much as blue ez. Or anything that subs in Triforce for IBG in search of damage at the cost of utility. It's only a loss of 10% CDR, which you can make up in multiple ways: Brutalizer (up there with elder lizard in powerful early buys - almost as much damage for 700 less gold) or Blue Buff are the ones that come to mind.
I'm actually rather surprised how little we see Brutalizer on these poke-based ezreal builds. Muramana even synergizes very effectively with Black Cleaver (The muramana proc applies its own stack, seperate from the Q or Auto that provided it) Last Whisper can be the 6th item I guess, so you'll have a bit less overall AD but be able to shred people to bits in a few seconds.
i asked someone whos legit diamond when to get last whisper and the answer is "always 3rd/4th, only 4th if you need defenses for some reason"
the breakpoint at which the item is cost effective is when something has 100 armor and almost every single champion reaches 100 armor naturally by level 18
at low levels you can tell someone who mains adc from someone who was forced to fill for it by whether or not they get LW together quickly or if they build 3 phantom dancers instead
the only time you can ever skip LW, is if you're so absolutely retardedly snowballed that you really just want to go push to end the game at or before 20 min - for example yesterday i played a game where i happened to be an 11/1 caitlyn at around 12 min and i backed with like ~4k gold and already had ie zeal vamp, so i just said to myself "this game is silly im just getting a fuckin bloodthirster", then proceeded to immediately push mid for the win. but i only did that because i was like lvl 15 when most of the people on the other team were still 9-11, in a normal paced game you never want to do that, i'd use that gold to finish PD and get LW
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On June 05 2013 16:09 Kinie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 14:58 sylverfyre wrote:
Where's your Last Whisper.
I think BT Triforce could potentially return as a super high damage poke that doesn't suck at autoing as much as blue ez. Or anything that subs in Triforce for IBG in search of damage at the cost of utility. It's only a loss of 10% CDR, which you can make up in multiple ways: Brutalizer (up there with elder lizard in powerful early buys - almost as much damage for 700 less gold) or Blue Buff are the ones that come to mind.
I'm actually rather surprised how little we see Brutalizer on these poke-based ezreal builds. Muramana even synergizes very effectively with Black Cleaver (The muramana proc applies its own stack, seperate from the Q or Auto that provided it) Last Whisper can be the 6th item I guess, so you'll have a bit less overall AD but be able to shred people to bits in a few seconds.
Last whisper is one of the most powerful damage items in the game, any build that can't fit it in until 6 items is mathematically bad. Even 0-defense-item carries end up with enough armor (due to armor scaling from levelups.)
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Do people play him AP or AD in dominion? I've not done AP much, but I always see so many... reckon it's just best to swap based on what team needs? :o
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Do it live on Dominion, the items are different and so are the power timings
AP Ezreal is a lot more viable because of this I think, you'll almost never get a fully stacked muramana on Dominion but IBG is still pretty strong and you basically weigh what you need (armor and slow proc vs hilarious lichbane burst)
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I'm definitely digging Trinity Force on Ezreal. The movement speed give him the kiting power that he's already known for. I'd say it's better than gauntlet unless you really need the armor or you're against a team full of AD Assassins. You are strong right in the beginning and don't have to wait for 3 items to do damage. You can also proc the speed bonus on creep and monsters. Also much better at tower sieging than Blue Ez because of the stronger sheen proc and higher ASPD.
My current build is: 1. Doran's Blade 2. Sheen 3. Zeal 4. Complete TF + Tear 5. Bloodthirster or Last Whisper (depends on how much armor you're up against) 6. Ionian boots 7. Muramana 8. Frozen Mallet (optional)
Complete build is: TF/BT/LW/Ionian/Muramana/Defensive item of your choice.'
Masteries: 23/7/0 or 23/4/3. Remember, TF gives crit so put points into Lethality and frenzy. I personally go 7 defense because manamune should solve all mana problem. If you don't plan on building manamune then perhaps you would want the 3 utility.
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When you get a tear you want it early so you can stack it fast. After a TF is not early at all. Then you get Ionian boots which makes me think you're going for an on-hit spam Q build like Blue Ez which makes me wonder why you're getting TF in the first place and spending money on crit chance.
If you're going TF you're definitely going to want an IE somewhere and are probably not going to need a tear or ionian boots.
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On August 27 2013 05:22 olabaz wrote:
When you get a tear you want it early so you can stack it fast. After a TF is not early at all. Then you get Ionian boots which makes me think you're going for an on-hit spam Q build like Blue Ez which makes me wonder why you're getting TF in the first place and spending money on crit chance.
If you're going TF you're definitely going to want an IE somewhere and are probably not going to need a tear or ionian boots.
Ezreal is not a pure autoattack carry regardless of how you build him. His autoattack doesn't have any on-hit bonus like Kog'Maw, Vayne, Cait, Varus, MF, Twitch. If he is then you wouldn't even be building TF, you'd be building IE or BOTRK. You can pretend that he is but then you are not maximizing his strength. Why even play Ezreal then? Given the choice of 20% ASPD from Berserker and 15% CDR from Ionian, the latter is much better with Ez's skillset. More Q = More CDR + More ASPD + More sheen procs + More movement speed. You are going to get more damage from CDR than a measly 20% aspd. As for Tears, it's optional, but Muramana + BT gives the most AD out of any 2 item combinations which is great for his Q and Ult. The proc from Muramana works on both his Q and his autos so that's far more useful than just extra crits from autoattacks gained from IE.
And you can always start tear first, but I prefer having a strong early game with TF components.
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Exactly, if you don't care about crits why get a TF which has a crit component. Crit scales with AD and AS neither of which you get from CDR boots Muramana.
I tried a lot of variations for ezreal but you don't find yourself auto attacking that often with 40% cdr
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On August 27 2013 07:55 olabaz wrote:
Exactly, if you don't care about crits why get a TF which has a crit component. Crit scales with AD and AS neither of which you get from CDR boots Muramana
Because there comes a point when a item gives so much stats for its cost that you might consider building it even if it does not optimally synergize with the kit. TF gives 4.5k+ golds of stats for 3.6k and while Ezreal doesn't need crit, it certainly doesn't hurt for him to have it. I've outlined several reasons why TF could better than Iceborn Gauntlet and none of those included crits. The crit is just a bonus.
Why do people build Void Staff on Ryze? It doesn't give Mana, CDR, or Movement Speed, his three most important stats. Because they understand that they still need mpen even they have to pay for the AP that doesn't scale as well as it does with other AP champs. Building a champion isn't confined to ONE or THE OTHER. Just because I don't want to build an absolute AD Caster doesn't mean I should build completely contrary to the champion's playstyle.
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On August 27 2013 03:53 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
I'm definitely digging Trinity Force on Ezreal. The movement speed give him the kiting power that he's already known for. I'd say it's better than gauntlet unless you really need the armor or you're against a team full of AD Assassins. You are strong right in the beginning and don't have to wait for 3 items to do damage. You can also proc the speed bonus on creep and monsters. Also much better at tower sieging than Blue Ez because of the stronger sheen proc and higher ASPD.
My current build is: 1. Doran's Blade 2. Sheen 3. Zeal 4. Complete TF + Tear 5. Bloodthirster or Last Whisper (depends on how much armor you're up against) 6. Ionian boots 7. Muramana 8. Frozen Mallet (optional)
Complete build is: TF/BT/LW/Ionian/Muramana/Defensive item of your choice.'
Masteries: 23/7/0 or 23/4/3. Remember, TF gives crit so put points into Lethality and frenzy. I personally go 7 defense because manamune should solve all mana problem. If you don't plan on building manamune then perhaps you would want the 3 utility.
At that point, wouldn't Tear take till the 40ish minute mark to charge?
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On August 27 2013 08:15 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 03:53 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
I'm definitely digging Trinity Force on Ezreal. The movement speed give him the kiting power that he's already known for. I'd say it's better than gauntlet unless you really need the armor or you're against a team full of AD Assassins. You are strong right in the beginning and don't have to wait for 3 items to do damage. You can also proc the speed bonus on creep and monsters. Also much better at tower sieging than Blue Ez because of the stronger sheen proc and higher ASPD.
My current build is: 1. Doran's Blade 2. Sheen 3. Zeal 4. Complete TF + Tear 5. Bloodthirster or Last Whisper (depends on how much armor you're up against) 6. Ionian boots 7. Muramana 8. Frozen Mallet (optional)
Complete build is: TF/BT/LW/Ionian/Muramana/Defensive item of your choice.'
Masteries: 23/7/0 or 23/4/3. Remember, TF gives crit so put points into Lethality and frenzy. I personally go 7 defense because manamune should solve all mana problem. If you don't plan on building manamune then perhaps you would want the 3 utility. At that point, wouldn't Tear take till the 40ish minute mark to charge?
You're right. I should probably just complete the manamune and go for LW next so I get the AD bonus and faster charging. Again, you can choose to start tear in exchange for a weaker laning phase or just abandon tear altogether. I personally like having a muramana because it's just a lot of damage and works with both Q and auto.
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I'm not saying TF is a bad item I'm saying your build is bad. It is half way in between two builds and accomplishes neither of them well enough to opt for it. If you want to build TF build him like corki -> IE/LW/BT/TF/AS Boots and if you want to build Tear/CDR build him like blue ez -> Muramana/Gauntlet/LW/BotRK/CDR Boots. But 1/2 and 1/2 is cutting corners on both and not what you want to be doing.
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On August 27 2013 08:27 olabaz wrote:
I'm not saying TF is a bad item I'm saying your build is bad. It is half way in between two builds and accomplishes neither of them well enough to opt for it. If you want to build TF build him like corki -> IE/LW/BT/TF/AS Boots and if you want to build Tear/CDR build him like blue ez -> Muramana/Gauntlet/LW/BotRK/CDR Boots. But 1/2 and 1/2 is cutting corners on both and not what you want to be doing.
TF first, without IE, is entirely valid. It's strongest early due to the proc multiplying your base damage, and just because you're not building pure crit doesn't mean you can't use the crit.
However, I think you're getting Tear too late for it to be meaningful. Sheen/TF already gives you a reasonable mana pool, so look for other ways to supplement it.
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On August 27 2013 08:58 Tooplark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 08:27 olabaz wrote:
I'm not saying TF is a bad item I'm saying your build is bad. It is half way in between two builds and accomplishes neither of them well enough to opt for it. If you want to build TF build him like corki -> IE/LW/BT/TF/AS Boots and if you want to build Tear/CDR build him like blue ez -> Muramana/Gauntlet/LW/BotRK/CDR Boots. But 1/2 and 1/2 is cutting corners on both and not what you want to be doing. TF first, without IE, is entirely valid. It's strongest early due to the proc multiplying your base damage, and just because you're not building pure crit doesn't mean you can't use the crit. However, I think you're getting Tear too late for it to be meaningful. Sheen/TF already gives you a reasonable mana pool, so look for other ways to supplement it.
I think he was giving a list here and not the order. Zerkers last would be a bit silly.
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On August 27 2013 08:20 AsianEcksDragon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 08:15 Gahlo wrote:On August 27 2013 03:53 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
I'm definitely digging Trinity Force on Ezreal. The movement speed give him the kiting power that he's already known for. I'd say it's better than gauntlet unless you really need the armor or you're against a team full of AD Assassins. You are strong right in the beginning and don't have to wait for 3 items to do damage. You can also proc the speed bonus on creep and monsters. Also much better at tower sieging than Blue Ez because of the stronger sheen proc and higher ASPD.
My current build is: 1. Doran's Blade 2. Sheen 3. Zeal 4. Complete TF + Tear 5. Bloodthirster or Last Whisper (depends on how much armor you're up against) 6. Ionian boots 7. Muramana 8. Frozen Mallet (optional)
Complete build is: TF/BT/LW/Ionian/Muramana/Defensive item of your choice.'
Masteries: 23/7/0 or 23/4/3. Remember, TF gives crit so put points into Lethality and frenzy. I personally go 7 defense because manamune should solve all mana problem. If you don't plan on building manamune then perhaps you would want the 3 utility. At that point, wouldn't Tear take till the 40ish minute mark to charge? You're right. I should probably just complete the manamune and go for LW next so I get the AD bonus and faster charging. Again, you can choose to start tear in exchange for a weaker laning phase or just abandon tear altogether. I personally like having a muramana because it's just a lot of damage and works with both Q and auto.
Sheen Manamune seems like a reasonable early items - you won't hit like a wet noodle in lane if you get sheen before tear, you can still squeeze in a brutalizer if you want to. The manamune passive will keep you relevant for a while, and youll probably be finishing up Triforce around the same time that your Manamune transforms for one hell of a power spike.
I would get Phage earlier in the Triforce buildup though, it seems like a really good early purchase now. It's not quite doran-efficiency, but it's close, and is giving you a lot of movespeed during lane (during which point your trades are not heavily based on AS/Crit - especially if you have low AD still.)
I don't really see why a poke-oriented Ezreal build ("Blue ezreal") is required to go gauntlet over Triforce. Gauntlet is committing to having a low damage high util build. It's a LOT of money for NOT a lot of damage. Switching it to a Triforce still gives you a heavy poke oriented build, exchanging the utility of gauntlet for (wait for it) Tons of Damage.
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So I've started picking up Ez again, now that people won't rage at my for not doing blue. I know NOTHING about his lane phase. Who should I be agressive/careful against? How much harassing should I try to do?
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Just a reminder, you should still be building IBG against heavy AD teamcomps
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On September 09 2013 16:57 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Just a reminder, you should still be building IBG against heavy AD teamcomps
IBG against heavy AD, or kitable teams. Some teams will get absolutely destroyed by a blue ez simply due to the inability to put damage onto the ez, even if they can go through the other 4 members of your team.
Also IMO, full defensive item if the enemy comp warrants blue build & can't burst you is unnecessary. Just go full dps because they aren't going to be touching you.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:48 sylverfyre wrote:
I don't really see why a poke-oriented Ezreal build ("Blue ezreal") is required to go gauntlet over Triforce. Gauntlet is committing to having a low damage high util build. It's a LOT of money for NOT a lot of damage. Switching it to a Triforce still gives you a heavy poke oriented build, exchanging the utility of gauntlet for (wait for it) Tons of Damage.
Because Triforce's power development doesn't fit the build.
Triforce as a late damage item is mediocre, because it gives a little bit of everything and a largely flat damage component through the proc that scales with neither crit nor AS. The strength of Triforce is abusing it's powerful single item timing to snowball the game. A later, softer, Triforce timing is simply not as strong, and at the point where you're sitting on parts and delaying your Triforce, it's not as compelling. It's even arguable that post-Muramana, the Triforce timing is weak enough that you may as well be picking up a straight damage item that actually scales better into the lategame like BT or LW if you want damage.
With a Sheen->Manamune->Triforce build, you are sitting on an essentially flat power curve until your Muramana + Triforce timing. With a straight Triforce, you are going to use the Triforce timing to snowball kills/towers/objectives into your next major damage item (LW, BT, or IE depending on the game).
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On September 09 2013 17:14 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2013 16:57 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Just a reminder, you should still be building IBG against heavy AD teamcomps IBG against heavy AD, or kitable teams. Some teams will get absolutely destroyed by a blue ez simply due to the inability to put damage onto the ez, even if they can go through the other 4 members of your team. Also IMO, full defensive item if the enemy comp warrants blue build & can't burst you is unnecessary. Just go full dps because they aren't going to be touching you.
IBG is definitely better against melee ADs that likes to dive the ADC. It's pretty much a free kill if they dive in and get kited. Trinity Force is better in laning and against other comps.
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I've just been building Triforce-LW-BT, and basically killing everyone so fast that it doesnt matter if I kite them, they're dead after the first shift anyway. I seriously think this build is completely overpowered, and the one game I lost with it was a 3v5. It will be nerfed 100%
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I've been trying AP Ez mid and I've been getting mixed results. Usually laning sucks but the late game is ok.
Pros:
- Short CD ult you can use to attempt a snipe, harass a target with no sustain, or push a wave if absolutely necessary.
- Ult has a large hitbox
- Great escape
- Great late game damage scaling with high AP ratios
- Lichbane Q poke is one of the best AP poke abilities because of how easy it is to land, its range, low mana cost, medium damage, and short cooldowns.
Cons:
- Can't push (except by using ult)
- No sustain so easily pushed out of lane
- All skillshots. No one hits all their skills but as you get better, I'm sure you'll waste less mana and hit more. I currently use smartcast on easy targets like minions and cc'd targets and shift cast whenever I'm shooting at far targets.
- Hard to burst people down unless you've already ulted because your ult is delayed and can be flashed. Other mids can however burst you down. If they're low enough you can definitely E,W,Q, ignite into them though.
- Squishy, if you get hit but Vi's Q,E,R combo, you just die. Which means you often have to save E and not go aggressive.
- Can't harass people behind creeps except with W which if you max first, reduces your pushing power and csing ability further.
- No CC. If your team lacks CC then there'll be many situations another mid could've helped get a kill.
- If you do manage to chunk someone with your ult to get them into kill range, they'll often just heal up with pots or fountain instead of giving you the opportunity to kill them. And they can push the wave faster than you.
- His laning is horrible. Another mid, eg. Lux can push waves and harass you with something like E, chunking you down until you're low enough. You'll have to cs under tower or tank minions. Then once you're low enough they can try to burst you down with no risk of enough retaliation since your QWE won't be enough to kill them, and since your E isn't targeted and your Q gets blocked by creeps, they tend to get the jump on you. I legitimately think you should max Q and get barrier on Ez just to survive lane. I've tried laning against Swain, Lux, Ahri, and Kat and the experience is always the same.
- Lichbane is vital on him. I tried ibg once and a third of my damage to champs was physical as opposed to normally something like 10-15%. I think that means that most of your damage comes from Q's and specifically the sheen effects on Q.
- Nashors pushes faster but the poke damage on lichbane lets you trim waves from a distance more easily and harass people in the mid game. The damage to mana ratio is better.
- Vision control is vital. It helps you not get caught in bad fights where you insta die since you're squishy. It also helps you snipe targets with your ult.
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I used to play AP ez, I tried it again recently. Same weak laning phase, but now with the change to lichbane your lategame is not that great either. I think its just bad now. In the past you would just output stupid amounts of damage, I carried games ridiculously. Now it just feels pretty similar to many other lategame AP's, and that laning is just so bad its not worth it at all.
We went from
1.0 AP,
to
50+.75AP
to
.75baseAD+.5AP.
Huge huge nerfs to AP ez scaling.
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On February 26 2015 04:42 sob3k wrote:
I used to play AP ez, I tried it again recently. Same weak laning phase, but now with the change to lichbane your lategame is not that great either. I think its just bad now. In the past you would just output stupid amounts of damage, I carried games ridiculously. Now it just feels pretty similar to many other lategame AP's, and that laning is just so bad its not worth it at all.
We went from
1.0 AP,
to
50+.75AP
to
.75baseAD+.5AP.
Huge huge nerfs to AP ez scaling.
Couldn't gunblade be a viable first item on him?
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On February 26 2015 04:42 sob3k wrote:
I used to play AP ez, I tried it again recently. Same weak laning phase, but now with the change to lichbane your lategame is not that great either. I think its just bad now. In the past you would just output stupid amounts of damage, I carried games ridiculously. Now it just feels pretty similar to many other lategame AP's, and that laning is just so bad its not worth it at all.
We went from
1.0 AP,
to
50+.75AP
to
.75baseAD+.5AP.
Huge huge nerfs to AP ez scaling.
Yeah, I was reading about old lichbane in this thread, and back then Pr0skier would miss like 6/10 mystic shots in his montages and still get triple kills. The new lichbane definitely makes ap Ez probably not as op looking.
Thanks.
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On February 26 2015 05:17 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 04:42 sob3k wrote:
I used to play AP ez, I tried it again recently. Same weak laning phase, but now with the change to lichbane your lategame is not that great either. I think its just bad now. In the past you would just output stupid amounts of damage, I carried games ridiculously. Now it just feels pretty similar to many other lategame AP's, and that laning is just so bad its not worth it at all.
We went from
1.0 AP,
to
50+.75AP
to
.75baseAD+.5AP.
Huge huge nerfs to AP ez scaling. Couldn't gunblade be a viable first item on him?
I mean, uhh no
No triforce or lich proc, spellvamp doesn't apply on Q, reduced spellvamp on W that doesn't hit creeps. It gives him nothing he wants. The sustain is mostly worthless because his tiny hp either gets 100-0ed or doesn't get caught. the active is kind of cool but no way is it outdamaging even sheen.
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On February 26 2015 06:02 sob3k wrote:
Also you said no CC, lategame I really like Rylais on him if you are going to do AP. Its a very nice slow, nearly permanent if you chain Q's.
Ez Q doesn't apply Rylais.
Does not apply spell effects.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ezreal
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you're right, I've built it on him several times...lol thats kind of sad. How could I not notice that....
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EPT
