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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 08 2011 12:08 Juicyfruit wrote: Having at least 1 point in W is important for getting your passive stacked up. For small skirmishes, sure. In teamfights you're going to instantly pick up 5 stacks off ulti, and you're hardly going to drop stacks in the middle of a fight. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On September 08 2011 11:50 Requizen wrote: Man Ez is fun. I dunno about viability, but there's nothing like landing Q + R + Autos, then E'ing onto someone and finishing them off. Skillshots: holy crap. Yeah, I've been playing mostly Ashe since I started playing about two weeks ago, and Ezreal is just so much more fun than her. | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
Another interesting thought I had was that it might be interesting to try for a hitproc build on ez. Do your normal TF opening but then instead of going normal AD/AP build a wit's end and malady. Since q applies on hit effects it still scales with these two (giving a total of an extra 62 magic damage) and along with ez's incredible passive steroid gives you a whole lot of attack speed. (something like 195% at 5 stacks). This also makes your TF proc more reliably. I imagine this would be a good build if your team is AD heavy and you predict the enemies will build armor, since your bonus AD is mostly magic, and you shred magic resist. Kind of combines the sustain of an AD ez with the burst of an AP ez. I wanna give that a shot now  | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Auto Attacks: Ez is faster, Cait is longer ranged. Cait can get Zeal and PD to make up speed, Ez can't make up range. Q: Skillshot poke. Ez does a bit more damage and is longer, Cait's can go through things and has a much wider range. I feel hers is more useful in situations and easier to land, and she doesn't suffer as much when she misses with it. W: Ez's has it's use in teamfights, but not much else. Cait's can be used for mini-wards, zoning, and saving lives while running. E: Mini-flash for both. Both do damage. Ez's can reduce the CD, so I guess his is better? R: Ez's has a much longer range and can hit lots of targets. However, you can dodge it. With Cait's, you just pray someone gets in the way, because it's guaranteed to land. Overall, I think Caitlyn is much stronger and just as fun, which kind of feels like a pity in some regards :/ | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On September 08 2011 13:37 Requizen wrote: Having said that though, I think that he's a bit bland because, in most respects, anything he can do Cait can do as well, but better. Auto Attacks: Ez is faster, Cait is longer ranged. Cait can get Zeal and PD to make up speed, Ez can't make up range. Q: Skillshot poke. Ez does a bit more damage and is longer, Cait's can go through things and has a much wider range. I feel hers is more useful in situations and easier to land, and she doesn't suffer as much when she misses with it. W: Ez's has it's use in teamfights, but not much else. Cait's can be used for mini-wards, zoning, and saving lives while running. E: Mini-flash for both. Both do damage. Ez's can reduce the CD, so I guess his is better? R: Ez's has a much longer range and can hit lots of targets. However, you can dodge it. With Cait's, you just pray someone gets in the way, because it's guaranteed to land. Overall, I think Caitlyn is much stronger and just as fun, which kind of feels like a pity in some regards :/ most of this is either debatable or true, except for q. cait suffers 100% more than ez if she misses, not only is mana cost higher, but the cd is much greater. ez is expected to miss some q's and it's considered no big deal, on the other hand ur a fknoob if u miss a cait q | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
Also Caitlyn's q becomes less useful as her autoattack gets better and the game goes on longer because she has to wind up (especially in teamfights, where using it at the wrong time is pretty suicidal). Ezreal never really has this problem, and his q applies on hit effects. Also from a fun perspective, I think Ezreal is more enjoyable to play. There's only so much pleasure that can be gained from autoattacking all day long (and its not like either of Cait's escape mechanisms are hard to use either). Caitlyn is probably the least engaging ranged AD to play, even if she is quite good. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On September 08 2011 14:26 zer0das wrote: Ezreal's ult is way better than Cait's. Way too easy to block that sucker. Ezreal's just rips through the entire team and it isn't especially hard to hit if you're close (although it loses damage with more targets :/). In general, Ezreal can be an absolute prick in pretty much any circumstance. Also Caitlyn's q becomes less useful as her autoattack gets better and the game goes on longer because she has to wind up (especially in teamfights, where using it at the wrong time is pretty suicidal). Ezreal never really has this problem, and his q applies on hit effects. Also from a fun perspective, I think Ezreal is more enjoyable to play. There's only so much pleasure that can be gained from autoattacking all day long (and its not like either of Cait's escape mechanisms are hard to use either). Caitlyn is probably the least engaging ranged AD to play, even if she is quite good. Like I said though, Cait's R is guaranteed to hit at least something 100% of the time (unless it dies midflight or something). With Ez's, they can move out of the way without you knowing or you can even just completely whiff it. I think they're both fun. Ez is much more involved, need to keep using your abilities 100% of the time. However, I feel Cait is more tactical. You need to control the area with Q, her huge auto range, and traps. You need to know when to use her abilities, where to place traps in a fight, and how to place yourself to get a constant stream of shots off, and hopefully ramp up Headshot on someone. I guess it's a matter of opinion. I quite enjoy both, but probably won't get Ez once the free week is over. If you want to see a true "sit back and Auto" champ, I've got Tristana. She's cool too (backdooring towers all day err day), but not nearly as engaging as either of the other two. I have limited experience with Caitlyn, but I find that Caitlyn becomes really underwhelming the longer the game goes. She's really strong early to mid, but her skills seem to become really weak in the lategame and she just becomes an auto-attacker. I find that Ezreal is different in that all of his skills continue to have around the same usefulness throughout the whole game, whereas Ashe starts off rather weak but becomes stronger as the game goes on. That's mostly true. Cait isn't as great endgame as Ashe, but she feels way stronger than Ez in my opinion. her auto attacking is amazingly strong with good farm and building, and is what makes her amazing in late game scenarios. You keep enemies at super long range and tear them to shreds. Working with a good tank/tanky dps makes your life so easy. Then again, that's how most ranged AD carries play. Ashe, Tristana, Caitlyn, Sivir, Teemo, Vayne... Corki and Ezreal really play more like mages than AD, in that they rely heavily on abilities rather than mostly AA. So it really is a gameplay style choice, in that if you enjoy that bursty AP style, you'll probably like Ez and Corki more than the "traditional" ranged ADs. | ||
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GranDim
Canada1214 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
Ez has more mobility than cait. Ez can 1n1 most ranged carries, mostly due to the nature of his builds (bruta!) and his trollolol burst. (Also how can you dare saying Caits ult is stronger, trollolol. Also Ez can snipe minionwaves. Never forget the GP ulti factor.) Cait is safer to play for newbs, that's actually all she has over ez. Oh, also Taric/Cait is more imba than Taric/Ez Also, for ezreal builds: 2 Dblades, Brutalizer, Sheen, Serkers, BT, Triforce -> LW/Banshees/Another BT ez #1. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On September 08 2011 14:35 koreasilver wrote: I have limited experience with Caitlyn, but I find that Caitlyn becomes really underwhelming the longer the game goes. She's really strong early to mid, but her skills seem to become really weak in the lategame and she just becomes an auto-attacker. I find that Ezreal is different in that all of his skills continue to have around the same usefulness throughout the whole game, whereas Ashe starts off rather weak but becomes stronger as the game goes on. She's amazing at being an autoattacker tho with such range. Build cait with IE > PD > LW/another DP and she deal way more damage than ez will ever do. :/ | ||
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Therealdevil
Netherlands1021 Posts
On September 08 2011 13:37 Requizen wrote: Having said that though, I think that he's a bit bland because, in most respects, anything he can do Cait can do as well, but better. Auto Attacks: Ez is faster, Cait is longer ranged. Cait can get Zeal and PD to make up speed, Ez can't make up range. Q: Skillshot poke. Ez does a bit more damage and is longer, Cait's can go through things and has a much wider range. I feel hers is more useful in situations and easier to land, and she doesn't suffer as much when she misses with it. W: Ez's has it's use in teamfights, but not much else. Cait's can be used for mini-wards, zoning, and saving lives while running. E: Mini-flash for both. Both do damage. Ez's can reduce the CD, so I guess his is better? R: Ez's has a much longer range and can hit lots of targets. However, you can dodge it. With Cait's, you just pray someone gets in the way, because it's guaranteed to land. Overall, I think Caitlyn is much stronger and just as fun, which kind of feels like a pity in some regards :/ Ezreal's Q is 10x stronger then Cait's, it reduces the cooldown of everything, a unique and very strong ability. Not to mention it adds red/trinity slows to people at a incredible range, and deals more dmg. The slight aoe Cait has isn't worth that much. Ezreal's W is shit, trap is better. Ezreal's E is 10x better then Caitlyn's E due to the fact that its ALOT faster, easier to dodge stuff with it (ashe arrow) and its cooldown is lower and can be reduced for an even greater amount. It can also be usedt o jump over big pieces of wood/jungler/rocks whereas Cait can only do it to small bits. Ezreal's R fills up his passive so easily it makes it more valuable to him than cait's ulti is to her. The only reason Ezreal isn't played as much is because hes not a 'dumb' autoattacker, and loses some of his momentum lategame due to this fact. I'm gonna start playing him though, he seems powerfull in my last few games. :3 | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
The only reason Ezreal isn't played as much is because hes not a 'dumb' autoattacker, and loses some of his momentum lategame due to this fact. I'm pretty sure that's not why most pros don't play him. Trist, Cait and Ashe have better laning phases and just as good or better team fighting skills later in the game. Yeah his ult can hit everyone, but after that it's much harder to hit who you want with Q consistently in a team fight. He can do very well, but we'd see him more in pro games if he was better. He was only used in one game at MLG at all. | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
Hmm, IMO (coming from someone who does not play ranged AD, granted), Cait is right now unbelievably strong and places a lot of her foot down on how this category plays out, especially due to the nature of bot lane AD FOTM. Her range simply makes it so many heroes are not really as viable in match, like Vayne (that range difference brutalizes her). If you see the Cait thread you'll get a bit of discussion about laners vs farmers there. To that end most players have gravitated toward ranged AD heroes that are consistently strong in lane, and have a certain set of range/farming capabilities. This unfortunately knocks out stuff like MF (who gets beat around and has issues farming) and to an extent Vayne (although she's still beloved for Taric Vayne). Trist is favored although surprisingly underplayed because she has a lot of tools that make her very strong from start to finish - two escape mechanisms at level 6, or a double nuke at level 6. She farms extremely quickly, and has always been one of the most potent DPS heroes due to Q. She also gains gigantic range by the end of the game. Ashe is favored because ECA is ridiculous and it's still fairly difficult to lose lanes outright with her, thanks to the defensive nature of Volley. Ezreal is... in a bit of a strange spot. His viability has certainly increased since support heroes can no longer shut him down completely, but his harassing power is still greatly weakened by good players (who can dodge/stand behind creep), which makes it that much more difficult for him to maintain lane presence against heroes with better range. He's also a burst combo hero, which means any sort of disable shuts him down and stunts his combo, which unfortunately leaves him vulnerable. In essence he's got sort of the same issue as Corki, who's at base another very strong (even arguably higher DPS potential) hero than most of the favored ranged AD these days, but simply struggles due to the design not being perfectly cut out for bot lane and such. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
the reason trist isn't as popular imo is that the optimum skillbuild (as far as i've seen) is r>q>e>w with 1 in w at lvl 1, which is a bit contrary to how one would skill her in a solo lane (with variations on how much w and e are skilled, but q is almost always taken at like lvl 8 or later). q and e really maximize your safe farming and the two are good at outputting pretty decent dmg without being in dangerzone with w. Typically, i still end up seeing solo lane skillbuilds on trist where they're leveling w first when, lets face it, you're not really going to ever use it to harass. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
The reason Cait stops using skills late game is because her passive and damage output with auto attack become so effective that she stops needing anything else but ult and her escape. | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
Edit: On September 08 2011 22:05 barbsq wrote: that actually sums up what i've thought about corki and ezreal in bot lane pretty well. they're monster solo laners and 1v1'ers in lane, but aren't as strong in 2v2 situations somehow. the reason trist isn't as popular imo is that the optimum skillbuild (as far as i've seen) is r>q>e>w with 1 in w at lvl 1, which is a bit contrary to how one would skill her in a solo lane (with variations on how much w and e are skilled, but q is almost always taken at like lvl 8 or later). q and e really maximize your safe farming and the two are good at outputting pretty decent dmg without being in dangerzone with w. Typically, i still end up seeing solo lane skillbuilds on trist where they're leveling w first when, lets face it, you're not really going to ever use it to harass. Bizarro, but I tended to use it when given favorable support matchup to bash Cait :p | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On September 08 2011 22:05 barbsq wrote: that actually sums up what i've thought about corki and ezreal in bot lane pretty well. they're monster solo laners and 1v1'ers in lane, but aren't as strong in 2v2 situations somehow. the reason trist isn't as popular imo is that the optimum skillbuild (as far as i've seen) is r>q>e>w with 1 in w at lvl 1, which is a bit contrary to how one would skill her in a solo lane (with variations on how much w and e are skilled, but q is almost always taken at like lvl 8 or later). q and e really maximize your safe farming and the two are good at outputting pretty decent dmg without being in dangerzone with w. Typically, i still end up seeing solo lane skillbuilds on trist where they're leveling w first when, lets face it, you're not really going to ever use it to harass. I feel like you should still always level w because A) e pushes the wave, which is bad B) you always want w maxed because there's going to be that teamfight where you can quadra with it C) if you need q to farm you have bigger issues than your skill order. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Yeah, Cait's damage is probably straight up one of the lower ones for AD carries, but she can zone and kite like a monster if played right. Her strength in 1v1 isn't her ability to burst down the enemy, but to never be hit and land more autos than anyone else. To put it in WoW terms (because I'm a nerd), her "target dummy dps" is lower, but she's more practical. Ez has the burst, and when given a chance to line it up can do great, terrible terrible damage with it. However, those times are few and far between thanks to his short AA range and Q getting blocked a lot. For others, Trist has the same range strengths as Cait, but better AA, and slightly worse zoning. I feel they're about even. Corki's R get's blocked as often as Ez's Q, but the AoE on it means that's not always detrimental. Ashe's damage doesn't really matter since she can CC like a crazy person. As to this: that actually sums up what i've thought about corki and ezreal in bot lane pretty well. they're monster solo laners and 1v1'ers in lane, but aren't as strong in 2v2 situations somehow. the reason trist isn't as popular imo is that the optimum skillbuild (as far as i've seen) is r>q>e>w with 1 in w at lvl 1, which is a bit contrary to how one would skill her in a solo lane (with variations on how much w and e are skilled, but q is almost always taken at like lvl 8 or later). q and e really maximize your safe farming and the two are good at outputting pretty decent dmg without being in dangerzone with w. Typically, i still end up seeing solo lane skillbuilds on trist where they're leveling w first when, lets face it, you're not really going to ever use it to harass. Corki and Ez don't get as much out of having a support as any of the other AD carries. Having Taric or Alistar in front of Kog or Trist means they have a meat shield for their range. Other supports (Janna for example) give them much better escape options and provide the CC they lack. For Corki and Ezreal, they have a short range, so they don't get as much out of a meatshield. Plus, their skillshots require them to be constantly moving around creeps, so they're more likely to get separated than Cait (Q goes through targets), Trist (AA only and E/R are targeted), or Ashe (Volley dominates lanes for the most part). And they have really good escapes, so they don't really need help in that area. | ||
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