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United States47024 Posts
On September 09 2011 09:28 brobear wrote:
Whenever I start at the either buff camps, my hp goes too low and I burn too many pots for it to be fast and effective... (and clearing blue without smite is impossible? I don't know how you manage that lol)
So I start at minigolems and do the buffs at level 3 with JitB level 2.
I then get level 4 after clearing rest of re-spawned jungles and gank at that timing.
I like having the buffs last longer on me while i'm running around ganking, but maybe that's not the most efficient way?
I'm new to jungling but I thought I had a pretty decent route, since it works out well for me...
Stack the boxes right on top of where the buff monster spawns, make sure that after the fear the monster aggros to a box, and not you, and likewise use another box once your initial ones pop to stop some damage on you. If done correctly, the boxes should all aggro to the buff monster, and not to the small lizards.
The buff monster should die extremely quickly even without smite, and you should take very little damage on the camp. If you're starting Red, this means you can use your Smite to hit 2 off the big wraith (the Red camp doesn't inherently give enough XP to hit 2 like the Blue camp does), which allows you to perform a level 2 red gank while the laners are still level 1.
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On September 09 2011 09:42 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:28 brobear wrote:
Whenever I start at the either buff camps, my hp goes too low and I burn too many pots for it to be fast and effective... (and clearing blue without smite is impossible? I don't know how you manage that lol)
So I start at minigolems and do the buffs at level 3 with JitB level 2.
I then get level 4 after clearing rest of re-spawned jungles and gank at that timing.
I like having the buffs last longer on me while i'm running around ganking, but maybe that's not the most efficient way?
I'm new to jungling but I thought I had a pretty decent route, since it works out well for me... Stack the boxes right on top of where the buff monster spawns, make sure that after the fear the monster aggros to a box, and not you, and likewise use another box once your initial ones pop to stop some damage on you. If done correctly, the boxes should all aggro to the buff monster, and not to the small lizards. The buff monster should die extremely quickly even without smite, and you should take very little damage on the camp. If you're starting Red, this means you can use your Smite to hit 2 off the big wraith (the Red camp doesn't inherently give enough XP to hit 2 like the Blue camp does), which allows you to perform a level 2 red gank while the laners are still level 1.
Okay thanks a lot I'll try it...
Sorry for the bad *advice* i was trying to give before lol I deleted it
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On September 09 2011 09:42 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:28 brobear wrote:
Whenever I start at the either buff camps, my hp goes too low and I burn too many pots for it to be fast and effective... (and clearing blue without smite is impossible? I don't know how you manage that lol)
So I start at minigolems and do the buffs at level 3 with JitB level 2.
I then get level 4 after clearing rest of re-spawned jungles and gank at that timing.
I like having the buffs last longer on me while i'm running around ganking, but maybe that's not the most efficient way?
I'm new to jungling but I thought I had a pretty decent route, since it works out well for me... Stack the boxes right on top of where the buff monster spawns, make sure that after the fear the monster aggros to a box, and not you, and likewise use another box once your initial ones pop to stop some damage on you. If done correctly, the boxes should all aggro to the buff monster, and not to the small lizards. The buff monster should die extremely quickly even without smite, and you should take very little damage on the camp. If you're starting Red, this means you can use your Smite to hit 2 off the big wraith (the Red camp doesn't inherently give enough XP to hit 2 like the Blue camp does), which allows you to perform a level 2 red gank while the laners are still level 1.
I thought the red lizard route was 2 JitBs at double golems, 2 on the red buff, smite big wraith, 3rd at red buff, kill double golems, level up decive, 4th at red buff take down red buff and go gank. That's the one i've been using and it works pretty well.
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Thats insanely mana heavy. Just level up Shiv for added damage and dodge. This allows you to then gank after getting red or doing whatever the hell you want. Be unpredictable.
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On September 10 2011 02:20 Sabin010 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:42 TheYango wrote:On September 09 2011 09:28 brobear wrote:
Whenever I start at the either buff camps, my hp goes too low and I burn too many pots for it to be fast and effective... (and clearing blue without smite is impossible? I don't know how you manage that lol)
So I start at minigolems and do the buffs at level 3 with JitB level 2.
I then get level 4 after clearing rest of re-spawned jungles and gank at that timing.
I like having the buffs last longer on me while i'm running around ganking, but maybe that's not the most efficient way?
I'm new to jungling but I thought I had a pretty decent route, since it works out well for me... Stack the boxes right on top of where the buff monster spawns, make sure that after the fear the monster aggros to a box, and not you, and likewise use another box once your initial ones pop to stop some damage on you. If done correctly, the boxes should all aggro to the buff monster, and not to the small lizards. The buff monster should die extremely quickly even without smite, and you should take very little damage on the camp. If you're starting Red, this means you can use your Smite to hit 2 off the big wraith (the Red camp doesn't inherently give enough XP to hit 2 like the Blue camp does), which allows you to perform a level 2 red gank while the laners are still level 1. I thought the red lizard route was 2 JitBs at double golems, 2 on the red buff, smite big wraith, 3rd at red buff, kill double golems, level up decive, 4th at red buff take down red buff and go gank. That's the one i've been using and it works pretty well.
I've also seen people start that way and go do golem instead of ganking right away. You take 2 shiv poison at level 2 and deceive at 3. If you do it right you should be able to catch the other jungler at wraiths (depending who you're jungling against).
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On September 09 2011 09:42 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:28 brobear wrote:
Whenever I start at the either buff camps, my hp goes too low and I burn too many pots for it to be fast and effective... (and clearing blue without smite is impossible? I don't know how you manage that lol)
So I start at minigolems and do the buffs at level 3 with JitB level 2.
I then get level 4 after clearing rest of re-spawned jungles and gank at that timing.
I like having the buffs last longer on me while i'm running around ganking, but maybe that's not the most efficient way?
I'm new to jungling but I thought I had a pretty decent route, since it works out well for me... Stack the boxes right on top of where the buff monster spawns, make sure that after the fear the monster aggros to a box, and not you, and likewise use another box once your initial ones pop to stop some damage on you. If done correctly, the boxes should all aggro to the buff monster, and not to the small lizards. The buff monster should die extremely quickly even without smite, and you should take very little damage on the camp. If you're starting Red, this means you can use your Smite to hit 2 off the big wraith (the Red camp doesn't inherently give enough XP to hit 2 like the Blue camp does), which allows you to perform a level 2 red gank while the laners are still level 1.
Yeah this... doesn't work anymore because Shaco's JitB targets random mobs. They don't target the closest in range target anymore.
Because of this, it's so much more efficient to do small golems --> wraiths --> wolves --> blue --> respawn wraiths & small golems --> red --> level 4 gank.
I honestly think you should give it a try before you talk about it.
"even without smite" just tells me you've never tried this. Recently.
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err they do - if you actually do what he just said. They will JUST attack the buff monster. Its like you haven't even tried it out.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 10 2011 17:53 brobear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:42 TheYango wrote:On September 09 2011 09:28 brobear wrote:
Whenever I start at the either buff camps, my hp goes too low and I burn too many pots for it to be fast and effective... (and clearing blue without smite is impossible? I don't know how you manage that lol)
So I start at minigolems and do the buffs at level 3 with JitB level 2.
I then get level 4 after clearing rest of re-spawned jungles and gank at that timing.
I like having the buffs last longer on me while i'm running around ganking, but maybe that's not the most efficient way?
I'm new to jungling but I thought I had a pretty decent route, since it works out well for me... Stack the boxes right on top of where the buff monster spawns, make sure that after the fear the monster aggros to a box, and not you, and likewise use another box once your initial ones pop to stop some damage on you. If done correctly, the boxes should all aggro to the buff monster, and not to the small lizards. The buff monster should die extremely quickly even without smite, and you should take very little damage on the camp. If you're starting Red, this means you can use your Smite to hit 2 off the big wraith (the Red camp doesn't inherently give enough XP to hit 2 like the Blue camp does), which allows you to perform a level 2 red gank while the laners are still level 1. Yeah this... doesn't work anymore because Shaco's JitB targets random mobs. They don't target the closest in range target anymore. Because of this, it's so much more efficient to do small golems --> wraiths --> wolves --> blue --> respawn wraiths & small golems --> red --> level 4 gank. I honestly think you should give it a try before you talk about it. "even without smite" just tells me you've never tried this. Recently.
Actually, I did this just yesterday.
Box targeting isn't exactly random. It still targets the closest creep in range--it just no longer swaps targets when a different one enters range. This still means that if you place the boxes EXACTLY where the buff monster spawns, they will all aggro the buff.
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On September 10 2011 20:02 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 17:53 brobear wrote:On September 09 2011 09:42 TheYango wrote:On September 09 2011 09:28 brobear wrote:
Whenever I start at the either buff camps, my hp goes too low and I burn too many pots for it to be fast and effective... (and clearing blue without smite is impossible? I don't know how you manage that lol)
So I start at minigolems and do the buffs at level 3 with JitB level 2.
I then get level 4 after clearing rest of re-spawned jungles and gank at that timing.
I like having the buffs last longer on me while i'm running around ganking, but maybe that's not the most efficient way?
I'm new to jungling but I thought I had a pretty decent route, since it works out well for me... Stack the boxes right on top of where the buff monster spawns, make sure that after the fear the monster aggros to a box, and not you, and likewise use another box once your initial ones pop to stop some damage on you. If done correctly, the boxes should all aggro to the buff monster, and not to the small lizards. The buff monster should die extremely quickly even without smite, and you should take very little damage on the camp. If you're starting Red, this means you can use your Smite to hit 2 off the big wraith (the Red camp doesn't inherently give enough XP to hit 2 like the Blue camp does), which allows you to perform a level 2 red gank while the laners are still level 1. Yeah this... doesn't work anymore because Shaco's JitB targets random mobs. They don't target the closest in range target anymore. Because of this, it's so much more efficient to do small golems --> wraiths --> wolves --> blue --> respawn wraiths & small golems --> red --> level 4 gank. I honestly think you should give it a try before you talk about it. "even without smite" just tells me you've never tried this. Recently. Actually, I did this just yesterday. Box targeting isn't exactly random. It still targets the closest creep in range--it just no longer swaps targets when a different one enters range. This still means that if you place the boxes EXACTLY where the buff monster spawns, they will all aggro the buff.
but if you put two boxes away from a spawn and drag them there, the first box will always target the closest range one (if you put one) but the second will not.
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Caller's AP Support Shaco Guide
Playing AP support Shaco does two things: piss off your team from the beginning, and then piss off the enemy team after the game starts. It's awesome.
Pick Shaco, go Flash/Ignite, call support.
Watch as team rages at you for not taking CV. Just say "Don't worry bro we got this." If you are lucky, somebody else will take CV for you.
Start the game. Open AmpTome + 1 HP Pot. Make as if you're going to head down middle land, but go bot. Drop a Box in the bush away from your side, and then run back to the bush on your side and face your base. Whenever your box CD is up, put a box as close as you can to the other box (make sure it's as close to the wall as you can get it) and then run back to your bush and face your base.
When you see the enemy creeps, walk out of your bush and drop a box in the river bush, near the edge. Chances are the enemy support champion will proceed to walk into your boxes and die;, or at least burn a flash, and then die. Don't be afraid to burn ignite. Then once the enemy support is either dead or b, throw boxes in their bush (don't stack them, just keep them in weird places.
You can now harass the enemy ranged DPS with near impunity. Make sure if you B you do it in weird places. If you want to get from one bush to the other without drawing attention, just decieve into the other bush and set up boxes. You want boxes along the perimeter of bottom lane, both in the bushes and in the river area. Then you can back and go off and bother their jungler or something. I dunno. Just put box traps in bushes and gib people.
In teamfights, deploy boxes along your path of anticipated retreat. Each box is an AOE fear and does a lot of damage if ignored. You will likely need to get an oracles after the enemy support bugs out after having been box'd three or four times and starts warding all of their own bushes. This is good, because those are wards that aren't on your side, which makes it hard for them to harass your jungler/team. If you anticipate advancing, throw boxes in the enemy's expected path of retreat. Just put boxes in random places.
As for items, after a DFG, you can pretty much build whatever the fuck you want.
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your kung fu is weak caller. get back to me when you have mastered ap shaco mid.
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I present to you; probally the most unpredictable shcao route yet
Start longsword +1 potion, 21/0/9 masteries, armpen reds, AS quints and blues, armor reds
put all your boxes at the red buff, smite the big wraith after you've killed the red you got 5 (!) different things to do
Skillorder:
WQWE if you got firstblood or just need to farm
WQEW if you didn't get firstblood but still need to gank
then
R>W>E>Q
Smite Ignite
after red choose either route:
1; gank the other guy at blue buff / wolves. I recommend this when you're smurfing or stomping bad people, or all in all characters who will get low after blue buff. (Note; I advice against doing this against people who's likely to go wolves - wraiths - golems such as nocturne or skarner)
Best case scenario: You kill both the enemy jungler and foolish mid lane who came to help and likely facechecked you in a bush and found a shaco with double buffs (this has happend often to me). After here, go whereever the fuck you want. Worst case scenario: you feed jungler and or mid and give red buff up, likely scenario: you kill their jungler (or burn their summoner) and escape their fierce mid and top lane by usng ninja skills (read: deceive)
2: Go gank mid lane, you usually dont kill this guy unless he is overextending by alot but you usually burn his flash and what not, but it's ok, hopefully you didn't waste ignite so you can go farm ur own jungle if you got low, go counterjungle if it seem's like agood idea or just stick around and hope the fool underestimates your hunger for firstbloods.
3. Gank sidelanes, top or bot depending if you're on the blue or purple team. After that do the same follow up to midlane.
4. Farm your jungle, usually dont do this cus then you'd be better off with spreading out your boxes to small golems etc.. the regi route yknow..
5. Get the rest of your wolves /wraiths and go roam the shit out of their side of the map.
WHen you go back priotize these items first
1. wriggles (if you can get it in one, happily do so, it's worth delaying boots)
2. boots
3. cloth armor / vamp scepter - depends
4. madreds razor's (you rather want the vamp scepter + cloth than razor's only).
WHne you have wriggles, get your boots of mobillity followed by a brutalizer if you can afford it fast (read: you're getting fed) if not, then build up a triforce or a wit's end if they have alot of MR.
Then basically build whatever you need, LW for anti armor, Cleaver if they have no armor, IE if you want a PD as well, GA if you need tankiness (GA revive + instant deceive is the best!).
Split bush, gank like a baws
be a baws.
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I wish I knew how to play AP Shaco properly. I can never seem to set up that perfect 4-5 box-bush insta-gank. I much prefer AD/jungler...not that Shaco leaves much room for error to begin with, but AD leaves more room for error I suppose since you can always clear for xp/levels.
On October 26 2011 21:50 Iplaythings wrote:
I present to you; probally the most unpredictable shcao route yet
Start longsword +1 potion, 21/0/9 masteries, armpen reds, AS quints and blues, armor reds
put all your boxes at the red buff, smite the big wraith after you've killed the red you got 5 (!) different things to do
Skillorder:
WQWE if you got firstblood or just need to farm
WQEW if you didn't get firstblood but still need to gank
then
R>W>E>Q
Smite Ignite
after red choose either route:
1; gank the other guy at blue buff / wolves. I recommend this when you're smurfing or stomping bad people, or all in all characters who will get low after blue buff. (Note; I advice against doing this against people who's likely to go wolves - wraiths - golems such as nocturne or skarner)
Best case scenario: You kill both the enemy jungler and foolish mid lane who came to help and likely facechecked you in a bush and found a shaco with double buffs (this has happend often to me). After here, go whereever the fuck you want. Worst case scenario: you feed jungler and or mid and give red buff up, likely scenario: you kill their jungler (or burn their summoner) and escape their fierce mid and top lane by usng ninja skills (read: deceive)
2: Go gank mid lane, you usually dont kill this guy unless he is overextending by alot but you usually burn his flash and what not, but it's ok, hopefully you didn't waste ignite so you can go farm ur own jungle if you got low, go counterjungle if it seem's like agood idea or just stick around and hope the fool underestimates your hunger for firstbloods.
3. Gank sidelanes, top or bot depending if you're on the blue or purple team. After that do the same follow up to midlane.
4. Farm your jungle, usually dont do this cus then you'd be better off with spreading out your boxes to small golems etc.. the regi route yknow..
5. Get the rest of your wolves /wraiths and go roam the shit out of their side of the map.
WHen you go back priotize these items first
1. wriggles (if you can get it in one, happily do so, it's worth delaying boots)
2. boots
3. cloth armor / vamp scepter - depends
4. madreds razor's (you rather want the vamp scepter + cloth than razor's only).
WHne you have wriggles, get your boots of mobillity followed by a brutalizer if you can afford it fast (read: you're getting fed) if not, then build up a triforce or a wit's end if they have alot of MR.
Then basically build whatever you need, LW for anti armor, Cleaver if they have no armor, IE if you want a PD as well, GA if you need tankiness (GA revive + instant deceive is the best!).
Split bush, gank like a baws
be a baws.
Pretty much copied from the most recent high-rated Shaco guide on SoloMid? Not a fan of this guide personally. The beginning is standard Red -->gank jungle route (gank at either 2 or 3, take your pick), nothing special, and then after it goes a little wonky with the Triforce....I still much prefer the on-hit items for damage/pushing like Wit's End or Cleaver into defence. Triforce just doesn't seem as useful on a character wiwth insane mobility and mid/high cooldowns. Bruta is a good call though.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On October 26 2011 16:43 Caller wrote:
Caller's AP Support Shaco Guide
Playing AP support Shaco does two things: piss off your team from the beginning, and then piss off the enemy team after the game starts. It's awesome.
Pick Shaco, go Flash/Ignite, call support.
Watch as team rages at you for not taking CV. Just say "Don't worry bro we got this." If you are lucky, somebody else will take CV for you.
Start the game. Open AmpTome + 1 HP Pot. Make as if you're going to head down middle land, but go bot. Drop a Box in the bush away from your side, and then run back to the bush on your side and face your base. Whenever your box CD is up, put a box as close as you can to the other box (make sure it's as close to the wall as you can get it) and then run back to your bush and face your base.
When you see the enemy creeps, walk out of your bush and drop a box in the river bush, near the edge. Chances are the enemy support champion will proceed to walk into your boxes and die;, or at least burn a flash, and then die. Don't be afraid to burn ignite. Then once the enemy support is either dead or b, throw boxes in their bush (don't stack them, just keep them in weird places.
You can now harass the enemy ranged DPS with near impunity. Make sure if you B you do it in weird places. If you want to get from one bush to the other without drawing attention, just decieve into the other bush and set up boxes. You want boxes along the perimeter of bottom lane, both in the bushes and in the river area. Then you can back and go off and bother their jungler or something. I dunno. Just put box traps in bushes and gib people.
In teamfights, deploy boxes along your path of anticipated retreat. Each box is an AOE fear and does a lot of damage if ignored. You will likely need to get an oracles after the enemy support bugs out after having been box'd three or four times and starts warding all of their own bushes. This is good, because those are wards that aren't on your side, which makes it hard for them to harass your jungler/team. If you anticipate advancing, throw boxes in the enemy's expected path of retreat. Just put boxes in random places.
As for items, after a DFG, you can pretty much build whatever the fuck you want.
Just tried this in ranked, and it's legit. Team raged at picks, enemy raged in game.
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BRAVE JUNGLE ROUTE
this focuses on a VERY strong and fast lvl 3 gank mid right when mid turns 3 or even BEFORE mid gets 3. you are guaranteed to burn their flash and make them have to back (or feed fb if you fail horribly)
21/0/9 jungle setup, I prefer taking +4dmg to minions and +10% on crit compared to cdr and mrpen since you'll crit out of decieve.
Smite+flash/ghost/exhaust/ignite I prefer ghost but its up to you.
arpen quints, flat ad reds, flat armor, mr/lvl
Tell your support to save CV and have it ready at 1:30.
Ask your mid to be aggressive lvl 1-2 and exchange as much dmg as possible.
You start at blue so beg your team to protect your boxes, otherwise your jungle will be fucked if you get your boxes popped.
5pot armorcloth start, buy armor from GA in recommended items and pots per clicking on buy instead of doubleclicking. Its really important to be fast and start setting up boxes.
I run to blue through mid and place boxes from outside (you should arrive and place your first box at ~0:30) so I can stay in the bush on your side of the river and see incoming ganks.
Stack boxes right where golem will spawn.
After placing 4 boxes (should be shortly before 1:30) start running to your opponents wraiths and ask for a CV there.
a) Someone camps their wraith
-> Just run back to your wolves, wait for them to spawn, give the big one a hit from behind and smite it, run to blue and do it. You should find yourself with nearly full hp and bluebuff, no need to use a pot before doing your littles wolves. Just continue regular from here.
b) Wraith undefended
-> Jackpot. Smite the big one (they spawn at 1:40) from max range and run to your blue. Finish blue, lvl e, get wolves. You should have lost ~100hp by now. Run to your wraiths and use a pot.
When you arrive at your wraiths your smite should be either off cd or close to depending on how much luck you have had with boxes/crits etc. Smite the big wraith WHOOPS LVL 3 get decieve and gank mid asap.
This should hit right when mid gets 3 or sometimes if some denying happened even before both hit 3. You have to attack from behind (20% more dmg thx) out of decieve and put a Jitb asap between your enemy and their tpwer. This way they HAVE to burn flash to escape, if they try to just run back they'll get feared and DIE.
Tell your mid beforehand if you think you are going for the kill or just to burn their flash. Your burst consist of Crit+40%dmg+20%dmg by attacking from behind, lvl 1 Shiv and maybe another autoattack. This is about 150-300dmg. (A LOT).
If your mid has a stun and Flash/Ignite its really hard to not get a kill.
After you ganked mid run to the river towards your enemies wraiths.
Use a pot if you were damaged, and keep running to their Lizard.
Assuming they started at Blue (like pretty much all junglers at lower lvls)
they should be either at Lizard or Twin Golems.
If they are at Lizard decieve and go for the kill. They will be low and you will win.
If Lizard is still there decieve from the wall behind the Twin Golems to the other side and kill them.
They will be there with half-low life 80% of the time.
If they somehow managed to escape either from the gank at Lizard or Twin Golems (like flashed over a wall to the tower) start putting Jitb in the brush at Lizard (if you killed them do it anyways, stealing their Red is the best feeling ever)
When you have 3-4 Jitb there pull the Lizard inside and finish with Smite.
Yeah so far so much. May update with some other counterjungling techniques soon.
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Anyone ever try atmogs shaco?
how is it?
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On October 27 2011 02:01 Alay wrote:
Anyone ever try atmogs shaco?
how is it?
Don't do it.
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United States37500 Posts
Atmogs works on any champion. Problem is getting enough farm to do so.
Shaco is not a good farmer.
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On October 27 2011 02:01 Alay wrote:
Anyone ever try atmogs shaco?
how is it?
done metagolem shaco a few times, only do it if you are fed as hell and can afford it cause shaco can't farm well
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Anyone tried doing the Dragon at level 1 Shaco 'route'?
I'm 3 runes short of being able to do it, so I can't actually try it in a real game, but seems like it could be pretty funny/useful to give your team dragon at 2:40.
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EPT
