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Sorry if this turns out to be a noob question.
But usually in every game with Shen I open with just Ruby Crystal since I feel Doran's Shield does not do much after early game, and I can be one step closer to either HoG or Aegis which seem efficient to me. And I play rather a defensive style with Shen but I still annoy the hell of the enemy champs when I see the opportunity.
I understand that buying Ruby Crystal as an opening item can really gimp on Shen if I want to be aggressive, but is Doran's Shield that much better than Ruby Crystal for early game?
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United States47024 Posts
On November 09 2010 08:27 DragonSharp wrote:
Sorry if this turns out to be a noob question.
But usually in every game with Shen I open with just ruby crystal since I feel doran's shield does not do much after early game, and I can be one step closer to either HoG or Aegis which seem efficient to me. And I play rather a defensive style with Shen but I still annoy the hell of the enemy champs when I see the opportunity.
I understand that buying ruby crystal as an opening item can really gimp on Shen if I want to be aggressive, but is doran's shield that much better than ruby crystal for early game?
The problem with Ruby Crystal is that while it starts you off with more HP, you don't have enough to start with a potion, and you don't get Doran's Shield's HP regeneration, so if you get in a bad scuffle at low levels and get to low HP, its harder to stay in lane and regenerate it, particularly since you don't have the luxury of Strength of Spirit like mana users do.
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On November 09 2010 08:35 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 08:27 DragonSharp wrote:
Sorry if this turns out to be a noob question.
But usually in every game with Shen I open with just ruby crystal since I feel doran's shield does not do much after early game, and I can be one step closer to either HoG or Aegis which seem efficient to me. And I play rather a defensive style with Shen but I still annoy the hell of the enemy champs when I see the opportunity.
I understand that buying ruby crystal as an opening item can really gimp on Shen if I want to be aggressive, but is doran's shield that much better than ruby crystal for early game? The problem with Ruby Crystal is that while it starts you off with more HP, you don't have enough to start with a potion, and you don't get Doran's Shield's HP regeneration, so if you get in a bad scuffle at low levels and get to low HP, its harder to stay in lane and regenerate it, particularly since you don't have the luxury of Strength of Spirit like mana users do.
I pretty much agree with those several issues with Ruby Crystal. But unless what if you were doing well or decent enough in lane with it? I think it would be better for getting the next item fast, but I would be wrong if I'm facing someone like Morde or Vlad. Then I would consider buying doran's shield.
So basically what I'm seeing right now it is better off to be safe in lane with doran's shield, right?
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United States37500 Posts
It's not better safe with Doran's Shield. It's Ruby Crystal is so bad at laning. You have zero form of HP regen. If you even attempt to last hit, you will take some sort of harassment hits or pokes since you are melee. Considering Shen almost always lanes bottom, the chances of you facing an enemy champion with some kind of poke spell is very high. You're not going to be able to farm at all.
Doran's shield provides you with HP, armor and HP regen. Not to mention you can get a hp pot out of it too.
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Out of curiosity, how is opening Regrowth?
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On November 09 2010 09:06 Southlight wrote:
Out of curiosity, how is opening Regrowth?
The problem with opening Regrowth, IMO, is that if you go 9/0/21 (no Veteran's Scars), take movement quints (no HP quints) and also take an initial item with no HP on it, you're going to show up on your lane with like 440 HP, which is the base health of the champion plus 9 HP from HP/level seals... that's starting to feel a little too squishy ^^;
Doran's Shield is a good enough item you'll probably want to keep it for most of the game, anyway- especially considering its shitty resale value (50% compared to 70% for non-Doran's items).
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United States37500 Posts
Uh, opposite spectrum of taking Ruby Crystal? Instead of HP and no HP Regen, now you have HP Regen but no HP, huk.
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I dunno, when an Ashe showed up 1v1 against me on Kassadin with Regrowth I first laughed, then turned to dismay as he completely shrugged off all of my harass. I guess the dynamics are different in a 2v2 lane because of the heightened burst, but...
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On November 09 2010 09:30 Southlight wrote:
I dunno, when an Ashe showed up 1v1 against me on Kassadin with Regrowth I first laughed, then turned to dismay as he completely shrugged off all of my harass. I guess the dynamics are different in a 2v2 lane because of the heightened burst, but...
I really like Regrowth first on some champions, Ashe among them. It's just, I feel a little safer vs. burst when I at least have some HP quints to fall back on... :p
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On November 09 2010 08:27 DragonSharp wrote:
Sorry if this turns out to be a noob question.
But usually in every game with Shen I open with just Ruby Crystal since I feel Doran's Shield does not do much after early game, and I can be one step closer to either HoG or Aegis which seem efficient to me. And I play rather a defensive style with Shen but I still annoy the hell of the enemy champs when I see the opportunity.
I understand that buying Ruby Crystal as an opening item can really gimp on Shen if I want to be aggressive, but is Doran's Shield that much better than Ruby Crystal for early game?
Doran's Shield + health pot is non-negotiable. It's hands down the best item shen can open with.
Okay so he has hp problems, open Health Gem right? Wrong. Never open health gem, are you crazy? Do you think vorpal blades give you enough regen that you don't need any passive regen? You realize you can't use strength of spirit so you're gimped in that regard right? Gosh you're dumb.
Can you get away with it? Yes, against terrible lanes that can't harass or burst... like soraka rammus lane. Yes, if you're leagues ahead of your opponents (which is impossible to guess, when you buy the items). Yes, if you don't plan on getting last hits at all.
Is it worth it? Even in the situations where you won't DIE because of ruby gem, doran's shield will let you threaten the opponents instead of playing passively. Is saving 300 gold really worth it? No.
On November 09 2010 09:06 Southlight wrote:
Out of curiosity, how is opening Regrowth?
Unless you have a REALLY specific reason to do so (some sort of MS hungry anti-mage build or a superfast warmog... both of which sound like terrible ideas), you will direly miss the 120 hp and 8 armor that doran's gives you. Shen's got decent regen from vorpal, combined with decent regen from doran's and he's set on regen. Better to have that buffer 120 HP than always be at full health but unable to engage because burst destroys you. Especially considering how much armor pen ranged champs run, the 8 from Doran's is amazing at level 1.
also i'll pretty up the guide and add pics and skills and shit tomorrow or something, ty for feedback and approval errybawdy
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I'm pretty much got the message after neo nail it down, so no need to piggyback it.  I was just confused why Ruby Crystal wasn't optional as an opening item since I have been doing it for the past few months.
Aside from that, your guide is pretty helpful, so keep up the good work. 
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I think this idea of starting off ruby crystal was made when shen was relased. It was a time, when leviatan used to give 2 stacks for assists.
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Thanks a bunch for this guide... decided to try out Shen and managed to win a 4v5 first game.
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Dorans items are about 2/3rd more Gold efficient per stat than about anything else. If you had unlimited inventory space no one would buy anything else.
Being "behind" for the next big item isn´t a real issue since Dorans help you land SO much better.
Also there are no key items on Shen that he NEEDS and that improve his performance significantly (like Banshees on Nunu or Rod of Ages on Singed).
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I just tried the sunfireless approach in an IH and it made a big difference I think. The much faster Aegis and Randuins were there to turn the tide in several teamfights. I ended up getting a few funfires as 5th/6th items because I couldn't think of anything else to buy.
Right now I'm running 9/0/21, tele/ghost, mpen/mresplvl/mresplvl/ms (I don't have hp yellows).
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I understand the reasons for opening with D-shield, but I just never felt the need for it. True I'm not a high level player and maybe I will change my mind in the future, but at least for now I prefer a ruby. I'll get a shield if I'm gonna 1v2. It's not hard to last hit with vorpal, ki strike close minions and you do have a shield (which I get an early point on and a second time at lvl 8). You have 850 hp so you can still be aggressive, skill shots can be dodged and most non skill shot pokes I can think of are relatively close range, so you can taunt and with the help of your lane mate come out ahead (maybe even kill them), shen is just that strong early game. And as bad of a heal as vorpal blade is it's still a heal + if you have teleport which I do I just see no reason for D-shield.
Idk. I am trying to think of a lane that would have that much of scary poke power and not be super squishy, so they don't get completely zoned out.
Anyway like I said I'm not high level, hope you don't mind my 2 cents. :D
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On November 13 2010 21:21 sashkata wrote:
I understand the reasons for opening with D-shield, but I just never felt the need for it. True I'm not a high level player and maybe I will change my mind in the future, but at least for now I prefer a ruby. I'll get a shield if I'm gonna 1v2. It's not hard to last hit with vorpal, ki strike close minions and you do have a shield (which I get an early point on and a second time at lvl 8). You have 850 hp so you can still be aggressive, skill shots can be dodged and most non skill shot pokes I can think of are relatively close range, so you can taunt and with the help of your lane mate come out ahead (maybe even kill them), shen is just that strong early game. And as bad of a heal as vorpal blade is it's still a heal + if you have teleport which I do I just see no reason for D-shield.
Idk. I am trying to think of a lane that would have that much of scary poke power and not be super squishy, so they don't get completely zoned out.
Anyway like I said I'm not high level, hope you don't mind my 2 cents. :D
Close range pokes are quite a problem. Most of them have greater range than vorpal, and they certainly have greater range than Shen's attack. Certainly, you can run up, vorpal, shield, whack a creep, but in all probability you'll take more than the 40/80 you recover. Ranged heroes can just autoattack that away, heroes with stuns are even worse, and heroes with nukes will shove you out as well. Furthermore, if you're playing against people who you CAN boss around in lane with Ruby, if you take Doran's Shield you will boss them around SO MUCH HARDER. When Shen does his dash-vorpal-kistrike combo he IS going to take damage, and if you get early points in shield he's not going to do as much damage/won't taunt as long. Furthermore, the energy system setup makes taking multiple skills much less useful. The standard D-shield max-taunt-and-vorpal is standard because it's better against tough lanes AND easy ones.
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Without dshield, shen is going to get his butt raped in a 2v2 lane. Going ruby crystal means that your opponent can trade hits with you and win the war of attrition, because they have a pot to fall back on while you have nothing. If you decide not to fight back, then you just got zoned.
My shen item build: Boots, heart of gold, boots 2, then banshees if they're magic heavy, randuins otherwise. After that, Warmogs, and then Atmas.
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Can I get some info on Jungle Shen? I know it's not ideal... but more often than not i find that my team has no jungler, so I figure it would be a useful thing to learn.
Looking for:
-Runes
-Masteries
-Starting item, and subsequent items after B
-Jungling route
Thanks.
Edit: got info from chat (thanks guys).
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EPT
