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Sam94
3 Posts
What does everyone think about lurkers as of now in LOTV? Personally i think they are a bit too strong because of there 9 range. Unless you have skytoss in an engagment with lurkers you are not going to win a fight because they just completely destroy ground units. What do you guys think? Thanks | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
id be fine with adept hp being nerfed and lurkers also being nerfed (it takes a long long time and a lot of gas to get lurks though) | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3372 Posts
It does have a lot of health though and feels really hard to snipe. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
The unit's power will depend a lot on the metagame. The lurker den is so high up the techtree that in a pressure oriented meta the unit might not see a lot of play, despite its strenght. But mass lurker might just be over the top as well and force players into skybuilds ZvZ and ZvP. | ||
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Insidioussc2
Germany96 Posts
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
On September 28 2015 20:37 Insidioussc2 wrote: The only possible nerf I think might be suitable is lowering the speed the spikes travel. Currently it is very difficult to micro against them, units like stalker should be able to kite around lonesome lurker What I don't like about the spikes is that they don't really "travel," but rather after a certain time, they damage everything in the spikes' line at the same time. So a unit close to the Lurker is damaged at the same time as a unit 6 spaces away. This is kind of counter-intuitive and does not fit well with the animation. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On September 28 2015 20:44 Sholip wrote: What I don't like about the spikes is that they don't really "travel," but rather after a certain time, they damage everything in the spikes' line at the same time. So a unit close to the Lurker is damaged at the same time as a unit 6 spaces away. This is kind of counter-intuitive and does not fit well with the animation. If it really works that way, then that is a bug that should be fixed. | ||
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Beliskner
111 Posts
The need to keep the damage high so you literally can't walk across them and kill them. But I'm with the others, they don't seem able to be microd against, or at least as soon as you see spikes or hear the sound your army receives a lot of damage, you need at least a decent warning that they're there, or the ability to dodge around spikes in low numbers. | ||
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Sam94
3 Posts
Also a problem I've faced on ladder is when I'm caught out of position with lurkers the game is 99% over because i cannot engage the lurker without losing my whole army and teching to air by that time isn't possible. My question is that are we now just going to see zvp become a sky toss fest because if so this is going to be a boring matchup or can blizzard do something to help fix/adjust the unit slightly so that ground can also work vs the lurker? | ||
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
On September 28 2015 22:17 Sam94 wrote: Yeah i agree with everyone is saying. The problem i believe (my own opinion) is that ZVP meta at the moment is usually ground fights which make for good action personally. However when lurkers come out it seems like ground armies are literally worthless because as we all agree lurkers just kill them at an extremely fast rate. Going sky toss every time vs a zerg in a macro game seems quite boring and annoying to play. Also a problem I've faced on ladder is when I'm caught out of position with lurkers the game is 99% over because i cannot engage the lurker without losing my whole army and teching to air by that time isn't possible. My question is that are we now just going to see zvp become a sky toss fest because if so this is going to be a boring matchup or can blizzard do something to help fix/adjust the unit slightly so that ground can also work vs the lurker? Against lurkers you can: - Abuse the lack of mobility (similar to the way you used to play against swarm host). Use the cheaper recall and adepts. - Use flanking forces to engage (chargelot plus archons from behind the zerg army... quite easy to do in maps such terraform). - Disruptor. It's a cheap unit (150/150), 3 supply. You can have between between 5 and 10 in your main army. You don't need to go air against lurkers, but you can't just amove into a lurker army. | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
But also, there isn't much you can do right now when a whole bunch of Lurkers just walk up to you and burrow. Especially since they outrage all Protoss ground units right now. There's nothing on the ground that can fight them. Also because they're invisible you need an observer but the Hydras are able to kill the obs and you're kind of forced into lurker range to defend it. I think Lurker range needs to come down to 7 or 8, not 9 as it is now. It's just too good offensively. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On September 28 2015 22:45 Tiaraju9 wrote: Against lurkers you can: - Abuse the lack of mobility (similar to the way you used to play against swarm host). Use the cheaper recall and adepts. - Use flanking forces to engage (chargelot plus archons from behind the zerg army... quite easy to do in maps such terraform). - Disruptor. It's a cheap unit (150/150), 3 supply. You can have between between 5 and 10 in your main army. You don't need to go air against lurkers, but you can't just amove into a lurker army. Disagree, everything just MELTS if you attack into Lurkers. You NEED a lot of disruptors (produced from the Robo.. not easy to get 5 out) or air units.... | ||
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Magnifico
1958 Posts
On September 28 2015 22:55 DinoMight wrote: Disagree, everything just MELTS if you attack into Lurkers. You NEED a lot of disruptors (produced from the Robo.. not easy to get 5 out) or air units.... If the zerg have lurkers burrowed and hydra/roach well positioned you are not supposed to attack into it. And I believe that against ground zerg play (lurkers/ultras) we need two robos with 3 bases. You could be underestimating the power of disruptors. Zerg off creep can't split. The tricky part of lurker armies is when you are playing from behind economically (say, because your adept harass got shut down). You need resources to flank/harass and tech. On September 28 2015 22:48 B-royal wrote: The visual and aural aspect of lurkers are awful. Give the spines a proper sound and animation as in brood war. I think this would go a long way already. Rifkin was saying that he talked with Blizzard's sound designers about this and they agreed that the lurker sound needs a rework. We can expect at least new sound soon (TM). | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
Also, didn't they buff Colossus range back to 9? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 28 2015 22:55 DinoMight wrote: Disagree, everything just MELTS if you attack into Lurkers. You NEED a lot of disruptors (produced from the Robo.. not easy to get 5 out) or air units.... I think the core question is whether Protoss can play like in HotS with a very strong 3-base (or 2-base) pressure build. Because in that scenario the zerg plainly shouldn't get into more than a handfull of lurkers and that rather late just like in HotS where the Zerg has to stay roach/hydra for a long time due to not being able to afford higher tech while defending. More than ever with how they are redesigning Protoss around stronger early game units and a cheaper splash-alternative to the colossus. In that scenario the lurker count should rise pretty slowly and the Protoss should be able to have some robo-tech units out before the first lurkers are done. If that isn't the case and zerg can just mass a bunch of lurkers then I think Protoss indeed has a problem because they don't really have a camper-unit like the liberator or siege tank that can stop the lurker from running up and most of their units are too slow to disengage properly. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5420 Posts
Disruptors work pretty well against them too, from what I've seen on fenner/Stephano's streams. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On September 28 2015 23:14 Tiaraju9 wrote: If the zerg have lurkers burrowed and hydra/roach well positioned you are not supposed to attack into it. And I believe that against ground zerg play (lurkers/ultras) we need two robos with 3 bases. You could be underestimating the power of disruptors. Zerg off creep can't split. The tricky part of lurker armies is when you are playing from behind economically (say, because your adept harass got shut down). You need resources to flank/harass and tech. Rifkin was saying that he talked with Blizzard's sound designers about this and they agreed that the lurker sound needs a rework. We can expect at least new sound soon (TM). I'm not talking about attacking them though. I'm talking about them coming to my 3rd, containing me, and slowly leap frogging their lurkers and sieging me. At that point I NEED to break the contain because my main is running out of minerals. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
"What are zoning units?" for 100 please. I face plenty of opponents who have no trouble microing against lurkers, and actually I see most high level players/streamers underusing lurkers because they feel like people can outmicro them too easily. It's funny how different views can be sometimes. | ||
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