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wrj
219 Posts
On September 24 2015 14:53 ROOTFayth wrote: you should really be annoying as hell though vs a protoss who's going full skytoss, you can't just let him take expands, otherwise you are kind of asking for a loss You are but the point is 200 supply skytoss is not winnable and its a problem | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
you can always ask Vibe for guidance, he doesn't mind skytoss at all | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
Fungal stun interceptors, then throw some corrosive bile on group of interceptors : Interceptors have 40/40 hp, and fungal + corrosive bile do 30+60 dmg, so 1 corrosive bile can kill a fungaled interceptor. Probably need some spores too protect your ravager + infestator, but worth testing imo. Ofc old shool, mass spores + abduct must work too. | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
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wrj
219 Posts
On September 24 2015 19:27 Tyrhanius wrote: Must be hard to do, but on the paper a infestor + ravager must kill this : Fungal stun interceptors, then throw some corrosive bile on group of interceptors : Interceptors have 40/40 hp, and fungal + corrosive bile do 30+60 dmg, so 1 corrosive bile can kill a fungaled interceptor. Probably need some spores too protect your ravager + infestator, but worth testing imo. Ofc old shool, mass spores + abduct must work too. I tried using infestor on some games but the thing is its really about luck,1 fungel can get 10 interceptor and 1 2 interceptors since they move on a random way and its not ez to expect their move so really infestor is not the way(their low hp dont help also) and ravegr is a nice pickup if you are going for some kind of very early attack when carrier are still on low numbers but on the late game raveger simply dont provide the answer unless they will release carrier attack ranage to something like 7-8 and then it may be possible | ||
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
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kiLen
Finland97 Posts
On September 24 2015 14:53 ROOTFayth wrote: you should really be annoying as hell though vs a protoss who's going full skytoss, you can't just let him take expands, otherwise you are kind of asking for a loss I heard this was a popular opinion in the later stages of WOL. Just don't let them get there. I really thought the community had atleast gotten some knowledge about the game and what is good for it. | ||
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wrj
219 Posts
On September 24 2015 21:28 FLuE wrote: If you go mass Ravs(like a ton of them) can you just pepper the sky and hit and run? Or do they simply just end up dying before you can get enough shots off? I always end up being less cost efficient but maybe some pros can do it, and also let be honest here,13 ranage raveger is way too much and its 90% will be nerfed to something like 11 range and then i am not sure ravager will work well | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On September 24 2015 21:51 wrj wrote: I always end up being less cost efficient but maybe some pros can do it, and also let be honest here,13 ranage raveger is way too much and its 90% will be nerfed to something like 11 range and then i am not sure ravager will work well I'm opposed to long range zerg by principle anyway. Zerg should be the melee race overrunning the opponent according to my world view, not this long range chipping away from a screen kind of business. | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
Three time remax would be nice too if it worked. Maybe. | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
1. Research melee/carapace upgrades. Begin making a ton of spores around the map, creating a split-map. 2. Mass counterattacks with 3/3 cracklings to deny bases and destroy infrastructure. They actually trade very efficiently with cannons. You want a few vipers to abduct the enemy army into your spore line so they can't end the game. While, you're stalling, get a huge bank and finish all your upgrades. 3. You want to bank a ton of resources. Stephano knows that, since the player has invested so much into a strong air army, their ground army is weak, therefore they have no way to do any real damage vs ultralisks. Ultralisks with max upgrades just cannot be killed by the air army. He also makes a ton of vipers and corruptors. From what I saw, he had 6-7 ultras, 10-12 vipers and the rest corruptors (with double upgrades of course.) 4. He engages. The protoss should have little bank and ways to replenish his army if he loses, but the zerg should be able to replenish his like 2-3 times. In the fight, he leads with the super-massive ultralisks to chase the templar away. He has a ton of overseers aswel so he assures that they die. Then, when they are far enough away, he runs in with the corruptors and vipers. He places all his energy in parasitic bombs and the corruptors do the rest. The parasitic bombs soften up the air and demolish voidrays, which naturally demolish corruptors. This works because the zerg has so much aoe, and the protoss' storms are chased away and killed by the ultralisks. If the templar moved forward into the ultras to storm/feedback, he would move back Very convincing victory. If the protoss just did an all-in push into the spores, he could easily abduct them all in and have 3/3 cracklings demolish the remainder of the protoss' base. I suppose if the protoss is going for an early voidray push, you could just make hydras. | ||
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crazedrat
272 Posts
On September 25 2015 08:48 DilemaH wrote: So I just watched stephano face a mass air player and destroy him. Heres what he did: 1. Research melee/carapace upgrades. Begin making a ton of spores around the map, creating a split-map. 2. Mass counterattacks with 3/3 cracklings to deny bases and destroy infrastructure. They actually trade very efficiently with cannons. You want a few vipers to abduct the enemy army into your spore line so they can't end the game. While, you're stalling, get a huge bank and finish all your upgrades. 3. You want to bank a ton of resources. Stephano knows that, since the player has invested so much into a strong air army, their ground army is weak, therefore they have no way to do any real damage vs ultralisks. Ultralisks with max upgrades just cannot be killed by the air army. He also makes a ton of vipers and corruptors. From what I saw, he had 6-7 ultras, 10-12 vipers and the rest corruptors (with double upgrades of course.) 4. He engages. The protoss should have little bank and ways to replenish his army if he loses, but the zerg should be able to replenish his like 2-3 times. In the fight, he leads with the super-massive ultralisks to chase the templar away. He has a ton of overseers aswel so he assures that they die. Then, when they are far enough away, he runs in with the corruptors and vipers. He places all his energy in parasitic bombs and the corruptors do the rest. The parasitic bombs soften up the air and demolish voidrays, which naturally demolish corruptors. This works because the zerg has so much aoe, and the protoss' storms are chased away and killed by the ultralisks. If the templar moved forward into the ultras to storm/feedback, he would move back Very convincing victory. If the protoss just did an all-in push into the spores, he could easily abduct them all in and have 3/3 cracklings demolish the remainder of the protoss' base. I suppose if the protoss is going for an early voidray push, you could just make hydras. If he destroys the toss with zerglings and takes so many bases, that's a win. I'm just looking ahead and I see this as a problem in the meta. If I'm being honest I also just don't enjoy the playstyle. It's very passive and the fight is odd. Anyway, the crackling solution isnt gona work on every map; it actually relies on the toss screwing up positionally (it puts the strain on them, certainly on maps like ruins, etc.); but there will be many games which reach ultra late game without toss being severely crippled. Moonlight cracklings don't work. It doesn't work all that great on Bridgehead either, or on Orbital. But yes this ultra / corruptor / viper is the army comp which Zerg shoots for at the moment. It's not really a magic bullet. Also, if you have 10-12 ultras... that's a ton of Ultras. About 70 food, you have about 60 food left for corruptors and vipers. I usually get 4 ultras. Did the toss have a ground / air comp in this game? Or was he basically all air? Maybe this is a purely base killing comp. Did he fight the toss outside his base? Pretty expensive to use that much money on ultras and throw away alot of your air like that. Sounds like not a typical game and stephano had mass cash which probably is not realistic for a good game. | ||
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DilemaH
Canada402 Posts
On September 25 2015 11:19 crazedrat wrote: If he destroys the toss with zerglings and takes so many bases, that's a win. I'm just looking ahead and I see this as a problem in the meta. If I'm being honest I also just don't enjoy the playstyle. It's very passive and the fight is odd. Anyway, the crackling solution isnt gona work on every map; it actually relies on the toss screwing up positionally (it puts the strain on them, certainly on maps like ruins, etc.); but there will be many games which reach ultra late game without toss being severely crippled. Moonlight cracklings don't work. It doesn't work all that great on Bridgehead either, or on Orbital. But yes this ultra / corruptor / viper is the army comp which Zerg shoots for at the moment. It's not really a magic bullet. Also, if you have 10-12 ultras... that's a ton of Ultras. About 70 food, you have about 60 food left for corruptors and vipers. I usually get 4 ultras. Did the toss have a ground / air comp in this game? Or was he basically all air? Maybe this is a purely base killing comp. Did he fight the toss outside his base? Pretty expensive to use that much money on ultras and throw away alot of your air like that. Sounds like not a typical game and stephano had mass cash which probably is not realistic for a good game. Probably. It was really passive. He has 6-7 ultras, probably 6. But yeah, zerg has to wait a while to get that army. But zerg can certainly backstab if they move out. Its pretty damn hard for a carrier player to get their 5th up and running. I do think carriers are entirely beatable after watching stephano's stream for a bit, but you have to play super passive and lame. He was entirely air + some archons/HTs | ||
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Raguel
Iceland22 Posts
The game is new so people will get alot better then they were with time. it just like in the beginning of hots when everyone was complaining about how strong tempest and high templar was. | ||
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Snooper23
5 Posts
If it's midgame, you need to play defense turtle with infestor / mass spores and mix in some hydras. When you have enough money banked, you sack your army on an expansion and re-max with 40 corruptors and as many vipers as you can. Offense: Parasitic bomb with target fire corruptors works well offensively. If you get up to 50 corruptors (you can also spore trick), take 25 in two separate control groups (they can still one shot a carrier). Put your vipers in a third. Move in and target fire the carriers with the two different groups, killing two at a time. Use vipers for Parastic Bomb on whatever you see clumped up. Defense: Use the hydra/infestor/ravager defense for the early to mid game, until you get the corruptor / viper mix. Fungal interceptors as they go over your spores. Fireball the carriers (target 1 or 2 and spam in one spot. Splitting up your fireballs for an AoE isn't effective here, as you need to hit 9 balls to kill 1 carrier. If you wiff, you wiff) Once you get Corruptor/Viper mix, yoink in the Carriers to spores + corruptors. This way you can save your vipers, transfuse with queens if possible. When army is depleted, go in for the offensive kill after consuming more energy. | ||
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wrj
219 Posts
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wrj
219 Posts
after 50 games vs late air toss i used all the tips that were given here and won late toss air,damn finally (*My macro was awful on this game i think) http://sc2rep.ru/show.php?id=16666 Would like to hear tips for next game so please watch it | ||
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XlorD
Germany16 Posts
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91matt
United Kingdom147 Posts
On October 01 2015 06:06 XlorD wrote: Basically you have to punish his fast tech with attacking midgame quickly before he gets more than 2-3 carriers. Problem is the PO, cuz it denies everything in this game Yep its completely broken protoss has basically infinite PO now, its impossible to do any pressure. | ||
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