EPTIt always was countered by Vikings. What's the problem with this in LotV?
TvP - how to deal with carriers? - Page 2
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1613 Posts
It always was countered by Vikings. What's the problem with this in LotV? | ||
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doihy
668 Posts
On July 29 2015 17:46 Jenia6109 wrote: How a LotV Carrier became much better that HotS Carrier? It always was countered by Vikings. What's the problem with this in LotV? Less resources + carrier ability. Carrier ability allows carrier inteceptor to attack when the carriers aren't there. There for the carriers arent in danger of being sniped and can do continuous damage. The protoss player trades minerals (interceptors) and keeps hit and running. On top of that they can build some tempests as well. | ||
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BiiG-Fr
Canada109 Posts
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Aquila-
516 Posts
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
Carrier's ability is irrelevant. How is it a problem if the protoss player throws interceptors at you? Carriers alone can't beat a bio army. You need splash damage as well. You should be able to destroy all his interceptors immediately which is extremely expensive for your opponent. I seem to lose against carriers no matter how far ahead I am in a game. I'll have 3/3 ups on bio, +3 attack on vehicles, and still lose against ~ 0/1 carriers with marines, thors, widow mines, and vikings (obviously target firing carriers). If the situation you are describing is accurate and not exaggerated due to rage, the only answer is that you were waaay behind in army supply, or you forgot very basic micro like activating simpack / burrowing your mines. How a LotV Carrier became much better that HotS Carrier? It always was countered by Vikings. What's the problem with this in LotV? Vikings aren't good against carriers, especially if combined with storms. It can only work as a timing if you surprise your opponent when he still has a small amount of carriers (which is much harder in lotv because carriers build faster). Thors are better but they aren't great either. The only other counter to carriers are BCs (spam yamato and win), but they are pretty hard to get and you need to commit to mech upgrades. So definitely the best answer is to go marine/medivac/widow mines and attack. Source: played carriers a lot vs terran both in hots and lotv. Quit playing it after the widow mine buff which allowed them to oneshot interceptors with splash damage made carriers become a joke (I tried again in lotv hoping the new buffs changed something but nope, mines still turn interceptors into a firework). | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
1 shot off a WM is very likely to kill 3-5 interceptors, which is quite equal cost-wise. | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On July 30 2015 01:31 JCoto wrote: From what I've seen, it's all about MassWM, with either Bio, Viking or Cyclone support. But MASS WM, with up to 30 mines at least. 1 shot off a WM is very likely to kill 3-5 interceptors, which is quite equal cost-wise. 30 widow mines is a waste. 10 widow mines shooting already kills 80%+ of the interceptors. It doesn't even depend on the carrier count because of how splash damage works. | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
widow mine is ok, but has the same problem vs storm. Widow mines really dont kill interceptors that reliably. Its supposed to be an incredibly strong lategame composition, and the mistake is 100% before the opponent has mass carrier. You need to be active, and if you see low base carrier (iE. 3 base carrier) then you can take 5 bases relatively easily, and just flood WM - liberator - vikings - bcs later. If its super endgame, and youre both on unlimited amounts or recources (more or less), im sure liberators massed will do better than anything. | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
interceptors are fairly expensive (more so since you will likely run out of minerals quicker in Lotv) For endgame compositions, 12 carriers will cost 2500 minerals and 6 will cost 1250 each time they fully have to replenish interceptors. Release interceptors practically destroys them all after 43 seconds of timed life. | ||
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owlman
France58 Posts
carrier cost 350/250 6 pop (+100 mineral to get full interceptors) and take 90 seconds to build --- vs --- liberator cost 150/150 3 pop take 60 sec to build and can be reactored. WM rape interceptors aswell, 10-15 is a good number. Honnestly you shouldn't die to carrier as a terran | ||
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DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
21 x 3-3-3 Carrier 1 Mothership , Army value 12500, 6800 vs 3-3 28x liberator 22 x vikings. Army value 8000 6000 terran won with 5000 4000 left. Within the first volley of shots, the interceptor count went from 170 to 40 | ||
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Sogetsu
514 Posts
On July 30 2015 03:37 weikor wrote: after doing some testing, i can guarantee you that mass liberator is the answer to carrier. The interceptors die within a matter of seconds, the DPS drops quickly and you easily win 21 x 3-3-3 Carrier 1 Mothership , Army value 12500, 6800 vs 3-3 28x liberator 22 x vikings. Army value 8000 6000 terran won with 5000 4000 left. Within the first volley of shots, the interceptor count went from 170 to 40 Wow nice! And Libs can then go on AG Mode, as well Vikings down to ground if needed, interesting | ||
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Aquila-
516 Posts
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owlman
France58 Posts
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TT1
Canada10045 Posts
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
On July 30 2015 05:53 Aquila- wrote: So I correct myself, mass widow mine doesnt work either. There are cannons and you cant actually kill the carriers themselves. Tried liberators but he had archons on the ground that splashed the liberators. All the theory crafters here should try to play a higher level game, imo carriers are way too strong and too easy to get. What do you mean for higher level game? You don't care about killing the carriers when the protoss player is starved out and can't build anything because all his minerals are being thrown into interceptors. And again mass widow mine is stupid. Bio+ mines is the way to go, much cheaper than anything else, once your opponent is out of interceptors you can kill the carriers very easily with stimpacked marines. | ||
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
On July 30 2015 03:37 weikor wrote: after doing some testing, i can guarantee you that mass liberator is the answer to carrier. The interceptors die within a matter of seconds, the DPS drops quickly and you easily win 21 x 3-3-3 Carrier 1 Mothership , Army value 12500, 6800 vs 3-3 28x liberator 22 x vikings. Army value 8000 6000 terran won with 5000 4000 left. Within the first volley of shots, the interceptor count went from 170 to 40 Exactly what I thought last page... I experienced this first hand, wasn't just talking out of my ass haha Thanks for testing! | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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i)awn
United States189 Posts
Looking at the rest of this thread, seems the liberator will make sure we will never see the carrier vs Terran, just like in HotS and WoL  | ||
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