EPTI don't think a single change has effected me this much in all of SC2 lol.
Liberator in TVZ : is it imba? - Page 25
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
I don't think a single change has effected me this much in all of SC2 lol. | ||
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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
On September 15 2015 08:24 GGzerG wrote: 13 Range Ravager is NOT the answer for SIEGE TANKS & Liberators, Do you think you can just mass a bunch of 13 range Ravagers, and take out a tank line / liberator line with ease? Please do post replays of this happening, thanks. That's right, you can't even get vision to shoot since terran has air control, and when you do have vision, you won't kill a single siege tank before taking damage as well. That if the player is bad, because a good one will just micro his siege tanks with mediavacs. In late game, when you get parasitic bomb and get air control, they just build turrets to prevent you from getting vision. Killing turrets covered by tanks with corrosive bile is too slow to be effective and force all your corruptors, vipers and ravagers to stay together sieging the terran, leaving him free to harass with hellbats, siege tank drops and liberators, and take you apart. | ||
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MapleLeafSirup
Germany950 Posts
The unit is ofc great vs ground units, but it is also great vs mutas. They are not supposed to be great vs mutas. It is one of those units that is just "great vs everything" - at least in the early/mid game. And such units suck design-wise. For me, this unit is absolutely needless. The role of zoning out units is already being played by tanks and mines. The role of splash vs air is already being played by thors and mines.The role of harassing is already being played by countless other units. There is just no room for this unit in the game. Too bad they are forced to add new units because, well, it is an expansion after all. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
The unit is ofc great vs ground units, but it is also great vs mutas. They are not supposed to be great vs mutas. They beat phoenix and void rays too if they get past fairly small numbers Take a look at 0:45. That's 4 liberators (600/600) against 9 void rays (2250/1450). You also need 6 stargate void ray to match unit count with a terran who has 3 reactor starports making liberators Terrans dropping 2 extra starports (to go to 3) and then producing 18 liberators in literally 2 minutes and 9 seconds in actual games is fucked up for any race to respond to, i can't imagine it getting past beta. It just feels like a joke (even if that many libs are not a particularly great thing to do strategically) | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1094 Posts
Whats cool about the liberator, it can snipe Larvae. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
Liberator can stay as it is. Its weak against Toss Liberator is strong vs toss at the moment @master-pro level | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On September 15 2015 17:52 Cyro wrote: They beat phoenix and void rays too if they get past fairly small numbers Take a look at 0:45. That's 4 liberators (600/600) against 9 void rays (2250/1450). You also need 6 stargate void ray to match unit count with a terran who has 3 reactor starports making liberators https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=45&v=kJaQILPIvt0 Terrans dropping 2 extra starports (to go to 3) and then producing 18 liberators in literally 2 minutes and 9 seconds in actual games is fucked up for any race to respond to, i can't imagine it getting past beta. It just feels like a joke (even if that many libs are not a particularly great thing to do strategically) And how many refineries do you need to support that ? One refinery produces ~121 gas/minute(~242 per base). You want to produce units worth 1800 gas in 2 minutes... Do the math. Not including the 3 starports with reactors... | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On September 15 2015 18:18 Pr0wler wrote: And how many refineries do you need to support that ? One refinery produces ~121 gas/minute(~242 per base). You want to produce 1800 gas worth of units in 2 minutes... Do the math. Not including the 3 starports with reactors... 900-1800 gas isn't much to ask of a terran who's on 3 CC's for the last 5 minutes building bio with no need for vikings or more than a few medivacs. ~3-7 min third is fairly standard. You don't need 18 (which would need 2k gas banked to produce straight out) - i don't even think 18 libs is good strategically - but people actually do that shit on ladder. Starports are cheaper than Stargates when it comes to building X strength army in Y time. This is not even the main balance problem with libs, it's just like "wtf i can't believe this is actually in the game" because even if it had a tech lab requirement it'd be a really good unit. It's twice as hard to build a banshee squad and why would you want to? Liberators are better units. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On September 15 2015 18:21 Cyro wrote: 900-1800 gas isn't much to ask of a terran who's on 3 CC's for the last 5 minutes building bio with no need for vikings or more than a few medivacs. ~3-7 min third is fairly standard. You don't need 18 (which would need 2k gas banked to produce straight out) - i don't even think 18 libs is good strategically - but people actually do that shit on ladder. Starports are cheaper than Stargates when it comes to building X strength army in Y time. This is not even the main balance problem with libs, it's just like "wtf i can't believe this is actually in the game" because even if it had a tech lab requirement it'd be a really good unit. It's twice as hard to build a banshee squad and why would you want to? Liberators are better units. I agree that they should require tech-lab, but just that. There is no need to nerf them to the ground, just because they seem quite strong in the beta. And I don't agree that banshees are worse units. They are just different. The banshee is stronger vs ground , is the better harass and more mobile unit AND can go invisible... So yeah, both have advantages. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
The banshee is stronger vs ground , is the better harass that's both subjective and map dependant | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
Just like the statement "Liberators are better units" | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
There's a reason they're used regularly yet i have not seen a banshee or colossus in my entire time in the LOTV beta. Well, multiple reasons really | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2655 Posts
On September 15 2015 17:52 Cyro wrote: They beat phoenix and void rays too if they get past fairly small numbers Take a look at 0:45. That's 4 liberators (600/600) against 9 void rays (2250/1450). You also need 6 stargate void ray to match unit count with a terran who has 3 reactor starports making liberators https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=45&v=kJaQILPIvt0 Terrans dropping 2 extra starports (to go to 3) and then producing 18 liberators in literally 2 minutes and 9 seconds in actual games is fucked up for any race to respond to, i can't imagine it getting past beta. It just feels like a joke (even if that many libs are not a particularly great thing to do strategically) 4 liberators don't defeat 9 voidrays ingame, liberators barely do any damage to non-light units unless they are super clumped, other wise units like corruptors, void rays and vikings do short work of liberators. | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On September 15 2015 21:24 Lexender wrote: 4 liberators don't defeat 9 voidrays ingame, liberators barely do any damage to non-light units unless they are super clumped, other wise units like corruptors, void rays and vikings do short work of liberators. How are you going to compare 9 voidrays to 4 liberators? 1 voidray costs 100 more mineral and 2 more supply than 1 liberator. Good one. | ||
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
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SCguineapig
Netherlands289 Posts
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AdrianHealeyy
114 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On September 15 2015 21:24 Lexender wrote: 4 liberators don't defeat 9 voidrays ingame, liberators barely do any damage to non-light units unless they are super clumped, other wise units like corruptors, void rays and vikings do short work of liberators. I linked the video to show the splash radius | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On September 16 2015 06:04 Cyro wrote: I linked the video to show the splash radius I mean, that was a LotV demo video release by Blizz, right? In the VR scenario they were focusing a command center with Liberators clearly in range, taking pot-shots. It is still a nice display of the radius though, but not exactly representative of VR's utility versus Liberators (though I don't think VRs are really intended to fight Libs very well). Zerg and Protoss will start needed to do split micro to maximize the utility of their AA Air Units versus the Liberator in AA Mode. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2655 Posts
On September 16 2015 06:04 Cyro wrote: I linked the video to show the splash radius But it doesn't really, the demo video has liberators stats exagerated, I'm not here defending the liberator or anything, I think is pretty IMBA too, I'm just saying that if you are making an argument you should at least use actual gameplay to prove it and not a video that doesn't shows the liberators real stats | ||
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