EPTThere is probly a 3rd one out there? mabye new shen? I'm not sure but it just seems rather silly to me to keep nerfing everything that goes even(tham) or slightly advantaged (poppy) and call her balanced.
[Patch 6.2] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 18
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
There is probly a 3rd one out there? mabye new shen? I'm not sure but it just seems rather silly to me to keep nerfing everything that goes even(tham) or slightly advantaged (poppy) and call her balanced. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On February 10 2016 04:35 Slusher wrote: I mean I only find Fiora problematic because the two tanks you can lane vs Fiora got nerfed to the point that they can't deal with her. There is probly a 3rd one out there? mabye new shen? I'm not sure but it just seems rather silly to me to keep nerfing everything that goes even(tham) or slightly advantaged (poppy) and call her balanced. Fiora's issue is that her time to kill is static regardless of her opponent's stats, meaning the only real way to beat her if you can't have a faster TTK is to run barrier instead of flash/tp, which defeats many utility based characters strengths. Vayne's design has a similar flaw. except in vaynes case, she's in a lane against many people with faster TTK AND it's a dual lane, so there are multiple people to deal with, which makes her much better balanced. Remember how stupid vayne was as a jungler with devourer when it first came out? it sped up her TTK by a huge margin and threw her out of whack. Top lane is really isolated so that same design choice has a much harder time balancing itself out, like vayne is. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I feel like 100 would have been a lot more reasonable (makes you buy like BC + Hex to get old damage) I mean her old damage is really good, but it's actually not even that good when you are carrying 4 ad items on a melee to reach that number. | ||
Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
I think in the old passive you could get 8-12 spells depending on level of passive They actually put the Xin change in >_> cant wait for Warlord TF+IE Xin | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On February 10 2016 04:53 Slusher wrote: The ratio change on Poppy's Q is bonus ad to boot, so you need to build 200 ad to get the old damage. I feel like 100 would have been a lot more reasonable (makes you buy like BC + Hex to get old damage) I mean her old damage is really good, but it's actually not even that good when you are carrying 4 ad items on a melee to reach that number. Poppy's almost one-comboing squishies off of her base damage (and Gauntlet). Are you sure you want it to get potentially buffed? x) It should be lower at higher levels to be reasonable, imo. 12% max HP just scales too well on a spammable cooldown. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I also don't see how that is possibly a buff, even if you made the breakpoint 100 bonus ad as I suggested you would have to be equally squishy yourself to do more damage than currently. even with my suggested nerf you are forcing her to buy two less defensive items than she currently does to hit the old damage. THe actual nerf hitting live tomorrow would require you to buy 200 AD to "almost one comboing" I dunno to be honest I think she's probly still ok most of the time, but I think a more measured nerf would have been reasonable. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On February 10 2016 05:12 PrinceXizor wrote: If they wanted to hit poppy early, they should have just made her shield bounce more in the middle of her and her opponent, similar nerf they did to zac. as it is now, poppy knows where her shield is going to land almost exactly every throw and can make sure its impossible to stop every time. if its riskier to do that she won't be nearly as strong early. that wouldn't change much, most of the time the shield is a bait anyway where the person who runs for it gets out traded, it usually bounces pretty far from poppy unless you use the auto return feature. I mean it would make it worse but not to a large margin. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On February 10 2016 05:14 Slusher wrote: that wouldn't change much, most of the time the shield is a bait anyway where the person who runs for it gets out traded, it usually bounces pretty far from poppy unless you use the auto return feature. I mean it would make it worse but not to a large margin. It's a lot less of a bait if it's bouncing near where they want to be anyway. It's not a huge nerf no, but poppys actually pretty alright, she just needs to beat less people in lane, and thats a way to do it without potentially making her cross the number horizon. Also you are manipulating the shield wrong if it's bouncing far away when you don't mean for it to. it's actually pretty predictable. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On February 10 2016 05:21 Slusher wrote: well to be clear I think these nerfs are reasonable, they just aren't what I would do, and they are problematic when considering Fiora as is. the problem from them comes from what happens when poppy still does her job and people complain about it. then the next patch they take down her numbers even more, and then everyone stops playing her until 6.7. She honestly is super reliant on being a damage threat, because her CC is all not great. she has a lot of it, but it's all less than a nomal ability of its type. her stun pushes the target away without a very good flash or flank, her Q slow is a tiny little area, her ult knock up makes people untargetable. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
And Vi had the same nerf as Poppy (200 bonus AD to reach pre-nerf damage on fully charged Q) and she ate a couple others behind that and still showed up from time to time. She was also a product of the meta, as an all-in jungler with a burst that tapers off hard if she doesn't build AD and no real defensive steroid apart from her shield (read: of course it's good, but she can't defend as well as a tank). Poppy, on the other hand, is a splitpusher, a lane bully, a decent support, great initiation and peeling, can build full tank and still solo squishies at most points in the game (Nautilus ate a couple of harsh W nerfs that hurt his clear because at level 9 he was able to do between half and 2/3rd of a glass cannon's health with his combo, and fell off right after). She's not gonna die from this, on the contrary the real impactful nerf for her is her ult. Can't just snap cast it for a makeshift pulverize.  | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
the changes to her ult + E making it imposssible to double combo people seem reasonable, like I"m not complaining about those changes not because they don't matter, but becasue they were too good and they got nerfed a little, Q on the other hand requires a completely unreasonable build for a melee to achive damage that was only high becasue it came from a full tank. again, not how I would have gone about it, but not garbage can either. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On February 10 2016 05:31 Alaric wrote: Jax wins a bunch of games now. He kills people fast, just not as fast as the permabanned champions, but he's not banned himself, so... And Vi had the same nerf as Poppy (200 bonus AD to reach pre-nerf damage on fully charged Q) and she ate a couple others behind that and still showed up from time to time. She was also a product of the meta, as an all-in jungler with a burst that tapers off hard if she doesn't build AD and no real defensive steroid apart from her shield (read: of course it's good, but she can't defend as well as a tank). Poppy, on the other hand, is a splitpusher, a lane bully, a decent support, great initiation and peeling, can build full tank and still solo squishies at most points in the game (Nautilus ate a couple of harsh W nerfs that hurt his clear because at level 9 he was able to do between half and 2/3rd of a glass cannon's health with his combo, and fell off right after). She's not gonna die from this, on the contrary the real impactful nerf for her is her ult. Can't just snap cast it for a makeshift pulverize. Her winrate is currently lower than Trundle Fiora Pantheon and Graves. all of which are bigger issues design-wise. she could very well drop off from play from this, unless the slight buff to her clear ( 12 +.1 bonus AD + 1.2% max hp ) more damage to minions, lets her play it safer in lanes, I don't actually know if that amount will let her one shot waves at an important break point, i'd have to look at it after the patch. They used "counterplay" as a reason because she could psuedo lock someone down, if they don't have flash and she burns flash and her ult, while making it easier for alistar to do the same when he's one of the strongest supports in the game. If her matchups are affected enough by the nerf, like she already had a few even matchups that could snowball against her, now those are losing matchups, and there are enough you can't ban em out. Not much reason to play her when you can just run trundle instead for a control pick. I can't see her beating Gangplank, darius, Fiora, Rumble, Trundle, or pantheon now anymore. There was a lot they could touch besides her damage and cc. reducing stubborn to a fault, or making her shield a lot harder to use in lane would already affect her laning enough she'd be a lot weaker. I think when you have a champion good at two(or 1) things, you touch what they are weak at, rather than what they are strong at, otherwise they fall below a point where they just won't be as good as an alternative at what they are good at, and then you just swap the pick out and don't look back. Like Ryze, they gutted his strength (unloading a ton of spells with his passive), instead of hitting him where is he is weak (casting a lot of spells needs mana, increase his mana costs), and his early laning is weak (hit his base stats). instead they ensured people will not play ryze unless his numbers are broken. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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suicideyear
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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