EPTPreseason 2016 Changes - Page 21
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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101toss
3232 Posts
On November 05 2015 02:33 Ketara wrote: I would be willing to guess that it's possible to detect that kind of behavior and ban it. Not that I'm saying it won't happen. But I think it won't be the problem you think it is. In any case, Lyte said in that post that 4 man queues in normals tend to be more toxic than they'd like, and they're going to monitor those especially carefully. The more I think about the multi stacked queues thing the more I like it. Yes there will probably be a non zero advantage to queueing with a group. But it might be very small, and having more groups in ranked might be fun and make ranked a less toxic experience for everyone. Oh yeah there's no argument that this will be great for people who have friends who play this game; the only people getting shafted are solo q players who refuse to group up. Also in terms of detection, you'd think it'd be easy to detect deranking, but there are variables that can be used to mask it. Also, if riot can't solve disco nunu without outright removing clarity/cv... | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
I've played a lot of solo normal queues and there have been a lot of times where I was sort of sure that I was with a 4-man but it was hard to tell because the game played basically like normal. I've also played a lot of 4-man stacks and we always invite the 5th to Discord and are generally positive playing with the guy. In addition, as long as Plenty Of People Are Playing The Game, there shouldn't really be a noticeable affect in how you do ranked games because in the bulk of the playerbase area the queue groups should match up pretty easily eliminating any persistent biases in how they adjust for elo inflation. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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crimethinking
Vietnam765 Posts
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Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
The changes makes a ton of sense on the whole having fun and teamgame aspect, but they do kinda make it harder for rank to be about skill. Then again, your ability to find and work with people can also be considered a skill, and at the end of the day winning is what really matters right? Its interesting to think about what soloq is really measuring now. I guess we can call it ranked queue instead of soloq. Its not going to measure you 'solo' abilities as much anymore. The more I type about it the more it makes sense that they would try to measure more of your team skill rather than your pure solo skill. I guess I rather have a more arbitrary team system that measures teams better than a tighter solo system that measures something that shouldn't apply as much. | ||
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crimethinking
Vietnam765 Posts
On November 05 2015 03:01 Kaneh wrote: Its interesting to think about what soloq is really measuring now. I guess we can call it ranked queue instead of soloq. Its not going to measure you 'solo' abilities as much anymore. I feel like Riot is trying to make solo queue some kind of "jack-of-all-trades" situation, in which you have fun, measure your skill, and work with other people at the same time. Sadly, this world is not perfect, and trying to make a system good at everything tends to end in a system that is good at nothing. Riot seems to have a severe case of Reality Distortion Field. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I actually think it lends a lot of creedence to the people saying making these changes w/o voice chat is silly. Even if you aren't toxic (which obviously I think I'm not LOL) that person gets buttfucked by your skype call. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 05 2015 02:49 Zess wrote: I'm not sure 4-mans will be as toxic as you think, even if Doctor Lyte, Riot Ph.D mentions that they're more toxic than the baseline. I've played a lot of solo normal queues and there have been a lot of times where I was sort of sure that I was with a 4-man but it was hard to tell because the game played basically like normal. I've also played a lot of 4-man stacks and we always invite the 5th to Discord and are generally positive playing with the guy. In addition, as long as Plenty Of People Are Playing The Game, there shouldn't really be a noticeable affect in how you do ranked games because in the bulk of the playerbase area the queue groups should match up pretty easily eliminating any persistent biases in how they adjust for elo inflation. IMO, implementing multi-player queue without ingame voice chat is a Manchurian candidate for exposing more toxicity on the part of Riot. Its really the most plausible explanation because they routinely never allow for changes that may have the slightest risk of increasing expectations (aka potential legitimate criticisms to levy on teammates) of players towards others, and now they implement a system that massively increases scrutiny on one or two players in a game? Highly suspect. | ||
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Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
On November 05 2015 03:03 crimethinking wrote: I feel like Riot is trying to make solo queue some kind of "jack-of-all-trades" situation, in which you have fun, measure your skill, and work with other people at the same time. Sadly, this world is not perfect, and trying to make a system good at everything tends to end in a system that is good at nothing. Riot seems to have a severe case of Reality Distortion Field. I think they're not making a system good at everything. They very clearly aren't making a good system for solo players. They are clearly making it worse, lyte even admits as much that the problems are marginally worse for 3 and noticeably worse with 4. Its more is the tradeoff of 'solo' worth the gain in 'team'. Riot thinks their data and tests show that is it, and honestly I trust them on this. At the very least they're trying to improve something that admittedly worked but wasn't perfect, and that's a good direction worthy of support, even if there are some failures along the way. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
They need something optional you can invite people to in champ select. Like Curse Voice but supported. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 05 2015 03:40 Caiada wrote: Never liked the idea of in-client voice chat; the problems are obvious. It'll be mandatory and people will bitch at you if you decide hey I'll listen to some music or have a chill game of LoL without randos yelling. It's different in CS:GO because it's much quicker and much much much less casual. So what about DotA, where in-client voice works just fine and is widely used but also not mandatory? | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
And it turned out that the community didn't give one shit about all of that and instead preferred to bitch about a scenario (4 friends of equal rank queuing up for ranked together, and then you getting queued into that group, and then that group deciding to be toxic towards you after they all get their preferred role/champ) that maybe happens less than 5% of the time. Sometimes I wonder about the psychological toll of working for a year to make all these huge improvements, only to get massively shit on for some small stupid inconsequential thing. It's like a pussy-whipped guy spending five hours making Valentine's Day dinner for his girlfriend only to get screamed at because he used the wrong silverware or something. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
The only thing I can think of is "why can you only pick 2 roles or fill instead of 3/4 roles?". | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
People who'd gush all over "free skins" even if it was -EV or something, or barely brought anything, but just for the idea of it? There are plenty of these, ensuring Riot positive feedback (positive as in favourable, not "good"). Same with how when you're somewhat decent at the game, but not a pro, you're often getting shafted by the balance decisions and soloQ because a lot of the players don't touch ranked at all (or past their placements), and amongst those who do over half are Silver or Bronze. That's a vocal minority, one that kinda regularly gets shat on, but still a minority. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
If it was literally 20% chance at each role I'd be so down but that's just not how these things end up working | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
And it's the same people who just repeatedly post over and over again. It's the boy who cried Kindred: if you complain about literally anything and everything, nonstop, any legitimate criticism is just lost in a sea of bitching. It makes looking for any interesting discussion (how will the new champ select change solo queue? are we going to have better pick/ban phases if bans are distributed? are priority picks really that important in solo queue? did assist gold overly encourage teamfight comps, and will it lead to a change in the meta?) pointless because we'd all rather shit on Riot. (Still better than /r/hearthstone or /r/starcraft though.) | ||
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