EPT
maybe ill play my first normal game in years, i'd like to play it.[Patch 5.16] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 5
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Please use the gameplay patch discussion thread for discussing item builds, champion kits, and other things related to gameplay. Please use this thread for discussion other things related to the game, such as the number of bans in ranked soloq, ranked teams, and competitive; speculation on game design and champion builds; toxicity in soloq; competitive integrity and sandbox mode; or how 739 is a robot designed to do nothing but Liquibet. We have a few other setups we might consider experimenting with and nothing is set in stone. Feel free to discuss in Website Feedback. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
maybe ill play my first normal game in years, i'd like to play it. | ||
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JJMC
Portugal83 Posts
![[image loading]](http://snag.gy/ribwW.jpg) 62.77% winrate. Second best is Ahri with 56.64% winrate. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On August 21 2015 01:54 justiceknight wrote: I dunno why I cant carry hard as viktor or theres a specific teamcomp for him to pwn? 1) Because they nerfed the shit out of him. Minus 25 to 30 AP at 15 or so vs 5.15 Viktor. Potentially more earlier. You now must upgrade to the third tier of augments in order to get a decent final marginal value from the items which delays your ability to get other strong items. So realistically you're hitting your core items 1000 gold later and until you get there you're 400-600 gold in deficit from where you were. He is now super dependent on levels since his augment has zero base stats. Not sure what this means regarding what to buy if you get ahead[if you're buying augments at low level you get basically nothing for them besides the ability upgrade]. 2) he is very dependent on ally/enemy team comp and smart team fighting in order to be effective. Good ally team comps involve overlapping zone control (Ekko jungle, Graves AD). Good front line tanks (Viktor doesn't have good ways to get to the back line unless their back line is in laser range through the enemy front line, so Viktor tends to want to kill their front line first which means he needs a stronger front line), Kite(fade away lasers have better chance of hitting enemy back liners if enemy is coming towards you), and Braum because Braum's E negates one of Viktor's primary weaknesses. On the other side Viktor is very susceptible to being zoned by poke and/or (sometimes) kite comps. Especially non blockable poke. So he is weak against long range zone control mids like Ori and long range damage threats like mid Kog and Xerath, especially if they have hard wave clear and this is true regardless of whether or not he beats them in lane. Bad enemy team comps involve Braum and anything that can tank harder than your front line can. Kite comps can beat him because if he is running at them he will not be able to laser well into the back line due to travel time. Also watch out for enemy ADC's much stronger lategame than yours for the same reason as you wanting to have a stronger tank. Against Poke comps he needs to get a good engage and have someone kill or block/prevent the enemy poke from hitting him. Against Kite comps he needs good zone control to hold objectives and make the kite team come to him (which he can do with his wave clear and zone control). For a good example of what not to do watch game 2 of TSM vs TL's semi-final match; Fenix buys incorrectly [no cap and no void staff against 200 MR front line despite being way ahead] and the team in general is moving the wrong way in team fights. This turns an easy win for them into an embarrassing loss. TL:DR Viktor was just nerfed really hard and Viktor needs smart team play in order to be effective. On August 20 2015 12:32 obesechicken13 wrote: So do you build Zeke's on someone like Malzahar? Still kinda feel like Zekes is OP and I should but old habits die hard. Zekes is very strong on him i think. Especially as you tend to peel more as teamfights go on than combo burst an enemy.. On August 20 2015 12:42 Caiada wrote: I dunno why you'd ever go any of the juggernaut items on her. Possibly Sterak's if you go for Tforce, but I don't value Tforce on her that much so that base AD goes towards nothing. Titanic is worse than Ravenous in 100% of scenarios because Q procs her lifesteal and she scales massively off AD. DMP maybe as a late pickup? But you don't really need the slow or movespeed for engaging. Anything those items add for her could easily be replaced by just playing better. Obligatory ad for gameplay discussion thread: http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-strategy/492928-patch-516-im-the-juggernaut-patch-discussion Fiora is a bruiser now so the new Juggernaut items(at least the bruisery ones) on here are basically perfect for her. She needs the HP/Armor/MR in order to not just explode as she hits enemies. Previously she could get lots of AD and then Ult and abuse the invincibility frames. But she can't do that anymore so she wants bonus AD and tank items. Her guaranteed crit means she doesn't really need crit items. Her bonus true damage means she doesn't really need pen items. Just AD and living. Hybrid damage/tank items are really efficient and two new hybrid damage/tank items just got added into the game. BT/Hydra/BotRK, Maw, Titanic, Deadman's, seems like a really strong combination on her. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Don't buy Titanic, it's worse than Ravenous in every way for her because you're spamming Q and an AA reset. Don't buy Sterak's because she does not scale with base AD except if you get a (bad) Tforce. Q and passive are her main sources of damage. Both are bonus AD. And all that's left is DMP which I said is probably decent. She's not a bruiser. She does not have the base damage to play as a bruiser. She already had plenty of great items that get her just tanky enough to function if you use ult properly. Hydra/Cleaver is core and is a lot of base health, you can probably get DMP after if absolutely necessary, usually go BT/Maw though. The ult is honestly the only reason she is good. It's absolutely insane if you use it properly. On August 21 2015 03:06 JJMC wrote: 62.77% winrate. Second best is Ahri with 56.64% winrate. My bad, my stats weren't refreshed for some reason. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On August 21 2015 03:17 Caiada wrote: Please never buy BotRK on Fiora Don't buy Titanic, it's worse than Ravenous in every way for her because you're spamming Q and an AA reset. Don't buy Sterak's because she does not scale with base AD except if you get a (bad) Tforce. And all that's left is DMP which I said is probably decent. She's not a bruiser. She does not have the base damage to play as a bruiser. 1) She is a bruiser. She has no invulnerability (well her W but only allows small outplays in teamfights/skirmishes, not like her old ult, Yi's Q, Trynds' ult etc) with which to reliably get off damage. She absolutely must have tank stats or will have to massively outplay her opponents. 2) I didn't suggest she buy any items that DON'T have raw Bonus AD on them except DMP. Lots of AD in fact. (ok except botrk, only 25 AD there but she does want some life steal, and the on-hit effect is powerful, and her Q applies on-hit effects). Maw has 60, BC has 40, Titanic has 50. Those three, DMP, Boots, and a lifesteal item provide between 175 and 230 bonus AD while also making you survive long enough to actually hit weak points. 3) Q applies on-hit effects so Titanic actually works pretty well with it as does BotRK (which will do more single target damage than Ravenous). Titanic does more damage per attack than Ravenous Hydra at 2000 Max HP. It does more damage on a Q at 2350 Max HP. If we assume that Fiora has no other source of HP* the first occurs at level 14 and the second at level 17. Though its worth noting that they're so close at 13/16 its not really worth quibbling about it. It has an active attack reset and so doesn't lose anything to the Ravenous active. The only downside is no lifesteal but that is why i suggested building a lifesteal item *which we shouldn't because we want her to build DMP and BC as reasonably efficient tank/dps items and she might have other sources like runes/masteries. edit: Forgot to mention, the auto attack reset on Titanic is much better than the one on Ravenous for single target. Since the attack has bonus damage of 40+10% max health to all targets this will be AA+240 to 380 damage or so depending on items. Ravenous will deal AA damage only and the AA will only do 25 damage more than Titanics. So you're some 215 to 355 damage behind! | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
BotRK compared to BT is 55 less AD, 8% less lifesteal, less health because of the BT shield. In exchange, you get the active and the passive and 300 gold. She has no problem chasing in most cases, especially if you're also going DMP and get Alacrity, so the active is mostly some extra damage. Both the active and passive damage have to be worth 55 AD and ~300 +/- whatever 8% lifesteal gives you. Maybe the math is there, I haven't done it. But I don't see it. Other than those two, well, we're basically suggesting the same build. Tiamat item->Cleaver->Lifesteal->Maw/DMP in whichever order. The issue is just the silly bruiser classification, which, eh, I could go either way on. It's too generic to define anything helpful at this point, with melee carries very likely becoming an actual thing. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
On August 21 2015 03:31 Ansibled wrote: Skarner 63% rework first day nice patch. My observation of him in a game he was losing really badly was that somehow he was stupidly tanky, hard to run away and did great damage (then again, he built TF out of the jungle, his team was cancer). That ultimate has always been considered super powerful, it was just the champion around it that got butchered. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On August 21 2015 04:10 DarkCore wrote: My observation of him in a game he was losing really badly was that somehow he was stupidly tanky, hard to run away and did great damage (then again, he built TF out of the jungle, his team was cancer). That ultimate has always been considered super powerful, it was just the champion around it that got butchered. Tforce out of the jungle makes sense. Q is on like a 0 second cooldown. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On August 21 2015 05:25 Caiada wrote: 138 base AD at 18 now. It'd be criminal not to go Tforce/Sterak's. With both he has 172.5 base AD = 345 damage per triforce proc. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On August 21 2015 05:29 Goumindong wrote: With both he has 172.5 base AD = 345 damage per triforce proc. 414 if Sterak's triggers. Meanwhile Mega Gnar is sitting on 144 base AD :p | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On August 21 2015 05:50 Alaric wrote: Skarner always had very high base AD though. Bunch of tanks do. Alistar, Blitzcrank, Maokai, etc. there's a reason Triforce was built on Maokai in s1. I don't think it was ever this high. nvm. he only gained .3 per level. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On August 21 2015 06:17 obesechicken13 wrote: So you guys remember Atmogs and Fratmas? (Atmas + Warmogs, Atmas + FMallet)? What are we going to name combos like Steraks and Triforce? Steraksforce? Meta Golem 2.0 | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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