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On August 21 2015 08:17 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:On August 21 2015 08:09 Nos- wrote:
you guys think adc will ever get some kind of change? I feel so underwhelming playing the role Frankly i am not sure they should be played on this patch though i don't know who else can duo lane effectively. On August 21 2015 08:12 nafta wrote:
Probably in the preseason some item changes.Don't think just changing numbers on champs can make a healthier adc pool.Also need more kalista nerfs. I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Just need to give sivir the mana cost on e back so she isn't so safe in lane vs everything.Now with bruisers being so good she is even stronger same with kalista/vayne and peel the kog comps.
I think that Kalista/Vayne may be ok. But juggermaw won't work if the enemy team just like double juggernaut runs at you and murders you with Deadman's Plate
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On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 08:09 Nos- wrote:
you guys think adc will ever get some kind of change? I feel so underwhelming playing the role Frankly i am not sure they should be played on this patch though i don't know who else can duo lane effectively. Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 08:12 nafta wrote:
Probably in the preseason some item changes.Don't think just changing numbers on champs can make a healthier adc pool.Also need more kalista nerfs. I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches.
Sivir was nerfed in 5.15. No reason for back to back nerfs while also (possibly) reshuffling the jungle/top meta.
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Kali also has nerfs on 5.17 PBE.
Armor nerfing is still good for ADCs as a whole, and movespeed-based bruisers who stack health are the dream for guys like Vayne/Twitch and probably Lucian. Most ADCs were 'bad' because of the prevalence of tank/tank/mage who can one-shot you or is Azir/the jungler who is possibly another tank or else Elise or Nid who wreck you. If this patch shifts that, which is looking likely, people will probably reconsider ADC options.
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I really want to play League on S3 patch again.
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I dont quite get why ADCs whine so much right when the 3 big armor items got nerfed while MR became cheaper.
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On August 21 2015 09:22 Redox wrote:
I dont quite get why ADCs whine so much right when the 3 big armor items got nerfed while MR became cheaper.
Cuz it is the only carry role that is team dependant.Is it a good reason?Can't really say.
This is also the reason vayne is the most popular ad.
Also when anyone gets fed generally the first thing they do is fuck the enemy ad.So you feel like you get shit on more often than others on average.
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cuz its riots privileged role, if they arent most important role by far, cant 1v5 and do most dmg every game they are useless and require massive buffs
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On August 21 2015 09:22 Redox wrote:
I dont quite get why ADCs whine so much right when the 3 big armor items got nerfed while MR became cheaper.
Part of your sentence explains the rest. ADCs whine so much. Bout it.
I would agree that meta didn't allow them to completely take over a game without getting fed or until a bit later than previously. Beyond that, ADC still wreck towers and still wreck team fights with peel and positioning.
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Chiming in on the Skarner train as well. I don't know how anyone looked him and thought it was going to be balanced. You can't contest any areas where he has his buff. Also his clear is super fast thanks to the buffs around his blue/red circles.
I don't think I lost any game where I picked Skarner today.
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On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches.
Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands.
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On August 21 2015 12:16 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands.
uhh no that is not true. Viktor and Azir while the higher picked champions for LPL/LCK are not picked nearly as much as Sivir was. And the only reason Kalista isn't crowding out other ADs is because Kalista is banned in every game.
In season 5 Summer Sivir was the second most picked champion in the game behind reksai. (Then gragas)
It's about the same distance behind Sivir and Corki (who sucked) that ADs start showing up the mid laners start showing up in droves. And there are lots of them. Behind Sivir is basically no one, vayne, Lucian, Kog, and jinx all have a decent number of games but not compared to the drove of mid laners there. Behind them there is a hilariously huge gap to Ashe and Graves.
As I figure it it looks like Sivir was picked in over half of all games played. Kalista was banned in nearly 70% (and picked in all the rest. She was picked or banned in 97% of all games.
Indeed Viktor is only the third highest mid ban priority for Season 5. Behind Azir (twice as many bans) and LeBlanc (about the same bans). So it's not like Viktor and Asir had massive pick+ban percentage. There are four mid laners before you get to the next ADC after corki and Sivir. After than you run into mid laners are twice the density as ADs
So uhh no. Viktor was not crowding out a bunch of mid laners. As fas as I can tell mid lane had the most diversity in season 5 except for maybe top lane. But it's close between them. Jungle has had the least. Then AD then support.
AD also had, by far, the largest gap in win rate between the top champions and second tier.
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On August 21 2015 12:59 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 12:16 Gahlo wrote:On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands. uhh no that is not true. Viktor and Azir while the higher picked champions for LPL/LCK are not picked nearly as much as Sivir was. And the only reason Kalista isn't crowding out other ADs is because Kalista is banned in every game. In season 5 Summer Sivir was the second most picked champion in the game behind reksai. (Then gragas) It's about the same distance behind Sivir and Corki (who sucked) that ADs start showing up the mid laners start showing up in droves. And there are lots of them. Behind Sivir is basically no one, vayne, Lucian, Kog, and jinx all have a decent number of games but not compared to the drove of mid laners there. Behind them there is a hilariously huge gap to Ashe and Graves. As I figure it it looks like Sivir was picked in over half of all games played. Kalista was banned in nearly 70% (and picked in all the rest. She was picked or banned in 97% of all games. Indeed Viktor is only the third highest mid ban priority for Season 5. Behind Azir (twice as many bans) and LeBlanc (about the same bans). So it's not like Viktor and Asir had massive pick+ban percentage. There are four mid laners before you get to the next ADC after corki and Sivir. After than you run into mid laners are twice the density as ADs So uhh no. Viktor was not crowding out a bunch of mid laners. As fas as I can tell mid lane had the most diversity in season 5 except for maybe top lane. But it's close between them. Jungle has had the least. Then AD then support. AD also had, by far, the largest gap in win rate between the top champions and second tier.
And thus, that season-long pick/ban and winrates are meaningless is revealed.
Particularly when commenting on balance in the modern patch cycle.
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On August 21 2015 12:59 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 12:16 Gahlo wrote:On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands. uhh no that is not true. Viktor and Azir while the higher picked champions for LPL/LCK are not picked nearly as much as Sivir was. And the only reason Kalista isn't crowding out other ADs is because Kalista is banned in every game. In season 5 Summer Sivir was the second most picked champion in the game behind reksai. (Then gragas) It's about the same distance behind Sivir and Corki (who sucked) that ADs start showing up the mid laners start showing up in droves. And there are lots of them. Behind Sivir is basically no one, vayne, Lucian, Kog, and jinx all have a decent number of games but not compared to the drove of mid laners there. Behind them there is a hilariously huge gap to Ashe and Graves. As I figure it it looks like Sivir was picked in over half of all games played. Kalista was banned in nearly 70% (and picked in all the rest. She was picked or banned in 97% of all games. Indeed Viktor is only the third highest mid ban priority for Season 5. Behind Azir (twice as many bans) and LeBlanc (about the same bans). So it's not like Viktor and Asir had massive pick+ban percentage. There are four mid laners before you get to the next ADC after corki and Sivir. After than you run into mid laners are twice the density as ADs So uhh no. Viktor was not crowding out a bunch of mid laners. As fas as I can tell mid lane had the most diversity in season 5 except for maybe top lane. But it's close between them. Jungle has had the least. Then AD then support. AD also had, by far, the largest gap in win rate between the top champions and second tier.
Azir and Viktor stop picks in other lanes from being picked far harder than any impact Sivir and Kalista does. And if we're looking at pick rate, go look up how Sivir hasn't even been picked or banned in LCK playoffs. In competant league, Viktor is absolutely crowding out picks. Teams that wanted to pick a low wave clear champion like Ezreal or Kassadin had to ban out Viktor is risk getting their shit pushed in all lane. But then again Viktor's bad so I guess that doesn't matter.
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Ahh yes the "evidence that contradicts my hypothesis is wrong" defense.
Edit: I think that Viktor has been picked and banned less as the season progressed but I am not sure. I know the current power mid pick for professional is/was TF (who I think was banned basically all of the playoffs)
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On August 21 2015 13:12 Goumindong wrote:
Ahh yes the "evidence that contradicts my hypothesis is wrong" defense.
You can't possibly expect me to take a winrate as a valid statistic when a bunch of bad mids in NA take him to the stellar score of something like 5-20+. That has a far bigger baring on his winrate than the early adoption by SKT and KOO. You're delusional.
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On August 21 2015 13:09 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 12:59 Goumindong wrote:On August 21 2015 12:16 Gahlo wrote:On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands. uhh no that is not true. Viktor and Azir while the higher picked champions for LPL/LCK are not picked nearly as much as Sivir was. And the only reason Kalista isn't crowding out other ADs is because Kalista is banned in every game. In season 5 Summer Sivir was the second most picked champion in the game behind reksai. (Then gragas) It's about the same distance behind Sivir and Corki (who sucked) that ADs start showing up the mid laners start showing up in droves. And there are lots of them. Behind Sivir is basically no one, vayne, Lucian, Kog, and jinx all have a decent number of games but not compared to the drove of mid laners there. Behind them there is a hilariously huge gap to Ashe and Graves. As I figure it it looks like Sivir was picked in over half of all games played. Kalista was banned in nearly 70% (and picked in all the rest. She was picked or banned in 97% of all games. Indeed Viktor is only the third highest mid ban priority for Season 5. Behind Azir (twice as many bans) and LeBlanc (about the same bans). So it's not like Viktor and Asir had massive pick+ban percentage. There are four mid laners before you get to the next ADC after corki and Sivir. After than you run into mid laners are twice the density as ADs So uhh no. Viktor was not crowding out a bunch of mid laners. As fas as I can tell mid lane had the most diversity in season 5 except for maybe top lane. But it's close between them. Jungle has had the least. Then AD then support. AD also had, by far, the largest gap in win rate between the top champions and second tier. Azir and Viktor stop picks in other lanes from being picked far harder than any impact Sivir and Kalista does. And if we're looking at pick rate, go look up how Sivir hasn't even been picked or banned in LCK playoffs. In competant league, Viktor is absolutely crowding out picks. Teams that wanted to pick a low wave clear champion like Ezreal or Kassadin had to ban out Viktor is risk getting their shit pushed in all lane. But then again Viktor's bad so I guess that doesn't matter.
Teams that wanted to pick a low wave clear mid like Kassadin or Ezreal had to ban out lulu, TF, Azir, Viktor, orianna, and varus.
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On August 21 2015 13:15 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 13:12 Goumindong wrote:
Ahh yes the "evidence that contradicts my hypothesis is wrong" defense. You can't possibly expect me to take a winrate as a valid statistic when a bunch of bad mids in NA take him to the stellar score of something like 5-20+. That has a far bigger baring on his winrate than the early adoption by SKT and KOO. You're delusional.
He didn't goddamn win in Korea or China either! Good fucking christ how many goddamn times. Edit: Summer numbers not using numbers for prior splits. LPL summer 2015 = 48% win rate. LCK SUMMER 2015 = 47%. Iirc these numbers go up slightly in playoffs where he did well I am just too lazy to add those numbers in
For you Viktor does poorly and it's the players fault (though sometimes it is. TL butchered his play vs TSM). Viktor does good and it's all the champion! No wonder your analysis is shit.
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What do you get low priority queue for? That isn't just "has once received a dodge penalty of 20 minutes" right?
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I got it once I want to say 4 or 5 months ago for leaving when I was having a lot of tech issues. Separate from the dodge penalty.
If somebody could explain why people who get chat restricted should get ranked rewards, I'd like to hear it. The argument is probably pretty funny.
When every single vocal analyst I can think of thinks Viktor is a fantastic, borderline oppressive pick... maybe he is a fantastic, borderline oppressive pick.
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EPT
