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On August 21 2015 16:15 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 15:49 DarkCore wrote:On August 21 2015 15:34 cLutZ wrote:
Never been chat restricted. Still think the system is idiotic. Still doesn't punish actual things that affect my gameplay. Also prefer to be carried by an angry flamer than to be dragged down by a polite crapper. I hate those players: they believe that because they're carrying they're entitled to belittling their team, meaning everyone else feels like shit and plays worse, so that they seem to be carrying even more. I report people who boast at the cost of their team on a regular basis. Being carried is nice, but honestly I'd rather lose than have fed Riven say 'GG, carried this loser team, EZ'. Even better is when you're winning as a team and someone still thinks it's all because of them. Lets say you hate those players. Do you honestly hate them more than the intentional champ select trolls which Riot has continued to not deal with?
Did you know you can dislike people verbally being assholes AND champ select trolls? It not choose one or the other ffs. It just happens to be that banning for chatlogs as opposed to figuring out who had 'priority' on mid is much, much, easier.
The sense of entitlement of the people whining in that reddit thread is amazing. All those ppl threatening to go play Dota instead. it'll be hilarious when they find themselve in dota's low prioriy queue and not getting drops or able to play anything bull all random.
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On August 21 2015 16:44 SHr3DD3r wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 14:27 GrandInquisitor wrote:On August 21 2015 14:25 SHr3DD3r wrote:
Except that the chat restriction system is retarded and not 100% fool proof. Found the chat restricted player! Except I am not. g g no re. bb
From what random people post as 'unfairly punished' and the lyte smite threads, the system is very accurate. You can also appeal to riot support, but again, the vast majority of appeals are baseless. They vetted a huge number of reports to tune the system before turning on full automation. Its not like they just threw up some machine that banned you if you were reported x times.
Then again Riot could also be a giant conspiracy machine, covering up and falsifying numbers. /s
ahhh i didn't edit the post properly =/
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On August 21 2015 14:11 Caiada wrote:If somebody could explain why people who get chat restricted should get ranked rewards, I'd like to hear it. The argument is probably pretty funny.
Ranked should be a skill contest, not a popularity one. Pretty simple.
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On August 21 2015 17:00 JJMC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 14:11 Caiada wrote:If somebody could explain why people who get chat restricted should get ranked rewards, I'd like to hear it. The argument is probably pretty funny. Ranked should be a skill contest, not a popularity one. Pretty simple.
So to equate this to a not-internet situation. It would be like playing in some tournament, then you start cussing out your opponent, do some shit like splash water over them, then argue that you shouldn't be disqualified because the tournament is a skill contest, not who's nice to their opponent.
Sportsmanship is a thing. A big thing actually, in most games. For some reason when its being applied on the internet all these people come out with some very strange reasons why sportsmanship doesn't matter.
This whole disconnect between interactions with people online versus offline is ridiculous. In any offline scenario, most of these people would be way beyond what's needed to be banned from participating in any competitive scene. They won't even be able to play, let alone get rewarded for their skill.
I hope they follow through with this. If all the people threatening to quit actually do it would probably improve the community so much. Too bad they just pretending and probably won't.
Can someone help me stop double posting. I'm apparantly retarded when it comes to hitting the correct buttons -_-
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On August 21 2015 17:30 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 17:00 JJMC wrote:On August 21 2015 14:11 Caiada wrote:If somebody could explain why people who get chat restricted should get ranked rewards, I'd like to hear it. The argument is probably pretty funny. Ranked should be a skill contest, not a popularity one. Pretty simple. So to equate this to a not-internet situation. It would be like playing in some tournament, then you start cussing out your opponent, do some shit like splash water over them, then argue that you shouldn't be disqualified because the tournament is a skill contest, not who's nice to their opponent. This whole disconnect between interactions with people online versus offline is ridiculous. In any offline scenario, most of these people would be way beyond what's needed to be banned from participating in any competitive scene. They won't even be able to play, let alone get rewarded for their skill. I hope they follow through with this. If all the people threatening to quit actually do it would probably improve the community so much. Too bad they just pretending and probably won't.
Indeed, common human decency is the best reason to ban chat-restricted players from getting season rewards.
I don't think people who tell you to go kill yourself or get cancer should be rewarded with anything.If he were playing in any face-to-face game or sport, he'd be told to never come back.
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I could not care less about borders (decayed from platinum V with points to gold for inactivity) and I have never been punished in LoL so I don't really think one can come at me and throw some ad hominem argument like "haha, dis guy is restricted xDD". But the atmosphere that Doctor Lyte is creating for this game is suffocating.
LoL is supposed to be a social game too, right ? Not that I have a desperate need for social interaction, but part of the interest of playing with other players is that you get to talk to other people. If you're not playing a solo game you've got to be interested in that part, to some extent. Some people will be to your taste, others not, but that's not even the main point.
The heavy report/punishment system created by Doctor Lyte makes it impossible to have an actual interaction with people on LoL, and that's what I hate about it. Every time a new "punishment" is added, the atmosphere gets heavier. This time around it's people caring about their shiny borders (yet a new category of people, which means even more people) that will be forced to "behave" and won't be able to speak as they like. And every time punishments get heavier or affect a greater portion of the playerbase, the game's chat becomes even more fake.
The idea is that everyone should behave and be nice to each other. Great. I mean why not, even though that kind of world doesn't particularly interest me and to be honest I'm not sure if it interests a lot of people. But whatever.
What does it mean when someone is being nice to you, or even refraining from shouting at you, out of pure constraint, because he has in his mind the possibility of a punishment ? I don't enjoy these fake ass golden masks that Lyte wants everyone to wear. It means absolutely nothing if you're nice to me in League of Legends, because I can't tell if that's because of a genuine intention or because the report system turned you into a comedian or a monkey. I don't respect your silence towards me when I'm feeding either, because it could mean that you actually have self control, or just that you're a scared creature.
Genuine interaction between people is getting killed by Doctor Lyte's artificial behavior system and I find that very saddening. I'd rather have someone be mad at me if it comes from the heart and I recognize an actual person. But apparently people in this thread are in joy as they see that the punishment system gets heavier with every week that passes.
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That equation seems bad as hell. It would be the same as people going to play football, being forced to get random teammates, and when one just decides to score in your own goal you can't do shit to stop it. Even worse, cause you can't even physically block it or prevent it either in the game.
It would be like expecting no arguing, swearing, if you had to play a team game with random people, who might just fuck you over cause of lols.
And don't tell me that isn't allowed either, because I've seen people argue in class and call each other out, and handling it decently.
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On August 21 2015 14:16 Harem wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 13:09 Gahlo wrote:On August 21 2015 12:59 Goumindong wrote:On August 21 2015 12:16 Gahlo wrote:On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands. uhh no that is not true. Viktor and Azir while the higher picked champions for LPL/LCK are not picked nearly as much as Sivir was. And the only reason Kalista isn't crowding out other ADs is because Kalista is banned in every game. In season 5 Summer Sivir was the second most picked champion in the game behind reksai. (Then gragas) It's about the same distance behind Sivir and Corki (who sucked) that ADs start showing up the mid laners start showing up in droves. And there are lots of them. Behind Sivir is basically no one, vayne, Lucian, Kog, and jinx all have a decent number of games but not compared to the drove of mid laners there. Behind them there is a hilariously huge gap to Ashe and Graves. As I figure it it looks like Sivir was picked in over half of all games played. Kalista was banned in nearly 70% (and picked in all the rest. She was picked or banned in 97% of all games. Indeed Viktor is only the third highest mid ban priority for Season 5. Behind Azir (twice as many bans) and LeBlanc (about the same bans). So it's not like Viktor and Asir had massive pick+ban percentage. There are four mid laners before you get to the next ADC after corki and Sivir. After than you run into mid laners are twice the density as ADs So uhh no. Viktor was not crowding out a bunch of mid laners. As fas as I can tell mid lane had the most diversity in season 5 except for maybe top lane. But it's close between them. Jungle has had the least. Then AD then support. AD also had, by far, the largest gap in win rate between the top champions and second tier. Azir and Viktor stop picks in other lanes from being picked far harder than any impact Sivir and Kalista does. And if we're looking at pick rate, go look up how Sivir hasn't even been picked or banned in LCK playoffs. In competant league, Viktor is absolutely crowding out picks. Teams that wanted to pick a low wave clear champion like Ezreal or Kassadin had to ban out Viktor is risk getting their shit pushed in all lane. But then again Viktor's bad so I guess that doesn't matter. China really liked counterpicking Viktor with Kass though
Makes me curious, a bit. In my experience Kassadin beats Viktor mostly because you can't kill him (E dodgeable if you don't cast on him, W won't be able to stun him, he can stay out of R after the initial cast, and his passive + Q shield reduces the damage further and increases the value of his potions), so he can wear you down. It's about surviving the early levels (where his aa damage will be a higher % of your trades, giving him the edge).
On the other hand it's true that Vikto's lategame was made better vs Kass in the rework in the form of absurdly backloaded Q's aa damage, which is reliable too, but that shouldn't be enough to 1v1 him.
And yeah, Viktor's waveclear is strong because pretty much instant once he reached level 9, but he's far from the only one who can shove a bad clear champ in if that's the reason for him preventing picks.
You could say that Kalista prevents a whole slew of immobile and/or skillshot based champions too, for example, and it would be truer (the following marksman on the list would be Vayne I guess?).
While we're on the topic of Viktor, I'll admit I was partially wrong. At level 7 I was able to one-shot the caster minions with the augment and an amp tome. So his clear is reduced in that you have to be able to farm well enough that you won't miss item buys thresholds if you want to keep nuking the wave. I can't say how much though since I got a kill+assist and my next buy was a NLR so I was pretty safe on the AP front.
Re: bitching marksmen and carrying.
They can't 1v5 unless fed because that's not how their power spikes work, and they tend to need more farm than others for a similar result / a higher minimum amount of farm.
That's not on ranged AD carries in general, though, but more on the design of marksmen I'd say. Most of them have kits tuned around auto-attacking in mind, and generally building crit to take advantage of that. They also lack burst and/or their steroids emphasise dps (Caitlyn, MF, etc.) so they aren't as good as champions able to nuke a squishy then have enough juice left to fight (like some bruisers do... or shit like Azir and Riven).
Corki, Ezreal, Graves, Lucian have more burst in the midgame (some because their kits pair well with triforce), but not to the level of a bruiser, to make up for having more follow-up dps. But maybe if we could have a ranged champion with a kit clearly focused toward a midgame peak, and not relying so much on crit to deal damage, then he'd be able to be stronger at the 1-2 items marks, then fall off if he didn't get fed. That could be Graves' thing between his burst combo and his passive, but he still has to build AS and crit or he doesn't just fall off, he becomes near-useless later on.
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On August 21 2015 17:50 Maluk wrote:
The heavy report/punishment system created by Doctor Lyte makes it impossible to have an actual interaction with people on LoL, and that's what I hate about it.
This is the kind of argument where I always stop agreeing. The punishment system is much more lenient than people who got punished like to claim. I think it is really easy to not be punished, you just have to act like a somewhat normal person.
Riot will always see the exact percentage of people being infracted or that of people being close to it. If the system got too strict and the number of punished players got too high they could immediatey notice that and adjust the system accordingly.
What would be really interesting of course is if we knew the exact percentage of players being chat restricted or otherwise punished. This says it is 1%, although the post is somewhat older. To be in the worst 1% of the League population (who is supposedly full of antisocial assholes) you have to behave rather unusual. To avoid being in there should really not be too hard and still allow to "have an actual interaction with people on LoL".
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But there's no reason to assume the league population is full of antisocial assholes, and off those you can cut off the ones that don't even play PVP, and off those you can again cut off those who go 3vs3, dominion, arams, normal, draft, teambuilder, and then is it still only 1%?
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You can punish 1% of players and create an atmosphere that affects people who are playing in general. In my example the one that is bothered by the system (me) is not included in the "1%" of punished players.
Also, Riot explicitly stated that "gg easy" could warrant a ban if used regularly, and in Europe there were far more than 1% of people saying gg easy. In fact pretty much 50% of my games used to end with a "gg easy" from one side or another, including ironic "gg easy" from the losing team. Since Riot made this statement though, gg easy more or less disappeared, losing team included since it is an "automatically detected offence".
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The system is never going to work anyway, you just replace insults with sarcasm. Riot really need to stop caring what people say, it's absurd.
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On August 21 2015 16:15 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 15:49 DarkCore wrote:On August 21 2015 15:34 cLutZ wrote:
Never been chat restricted. Still think the system is idiotic. Still doesn't punish actual things that affect my gameplay. Also prefer to be carried by an angry flamer than to be dragged down by a polite crapper. I hate those players: they believe that because they're carrying they're entitled to belittling their team, meaning everyone else feels like shit and plays worse, so that they seem to be carrying even more. I report people who boast at the cost of their team on a regular basis. Being carried is nice, but honestly I'd rather lose than have fed Riven say 'GG, carried this loser team, EZ'. Even better is when you're winning as a team and someone still thinks it's all because of them. Lets say you hate those players. Do you honestly hate them more than the intentional champ select trolls which Riot has continued to not deal with?
I just had a mild case in my last game (last pick second ADC, took all my cs. We won though, absolute stomp) lol. Your first comment didn't address trolls, I differentiate those from flamers. I just play the game through, either try hard if it's possible, or just play the game brain dead without caring. After the game it's a straight report. If someone dodges, I wait a minute before queuing.
Doesn't Riot have a system that detects players who frequently have people dodging them? Although knowing Riot, it probably doesn't work... Those trolls are rarer than flamers though, I just take them as a fact of life.
The system is never going to work anyway, you just replace insults with sarcasm. Riot really need to stop caring what people say, it's absurd.
Riot needs the tribunal again, screw the automated system outside of word filter. Reward people for accuracy, not number of cases completed, and you're done. As for Lyte's no tolerance policy, it's so absurd it won't achieve anything.
League is a competitive game, even if you want to play for fun the game it doesn't mean others in the game are the same. People will always get hot headed and flame. Trolling is a bit different, it's childish imo, but you can't cleanse the game and make it PG6+
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On August 21 2015 18:50 Ansibled wrote:
The system is never going to work anyway, you just replace insults with sarcasm. Riot really need to stop caring what people say, it's absurd.
That will never happen sadly since there is an automated system.It can't detect sarcasm lol.
How I see the whine "Oh no riot are going to take away my tiara....They ruined my sweet 16  "
Also seems kind of stupid to punish the people who "reformed" and there were actually people like the guy who got restricted for flaming himself.
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On August 21 2015 17:30 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 17:00 JJMC wrote:On August 21 2015 14:11 Caiada wrote:If somebody could explain why people who get chat restricted should get ranked rewards, I'd like to hear it. The argument is probably pretty funny. Ranked should be a skill contest, not a popularity one. Pretty simple. So to equate this to a not-internet situation. It would be like playing in some tournament, then you start cussing out your opponent, do some shit like splash water over them, then argue that you shouldn't be disqualified because the tournament is a skill contest, not who's nice to their opponent. Sportsmanship is a thing. A big thing actually, in most games. For some reason when its being applied on the internet all these people come out with some very strange reasons why sportsmanship doesn't matter. This whole disconnect between interactions with people online versus offline is ridiculous. In any offline scenario, most of these people would be way beyond what's needed to be banned from participating in any competitive scene. They won't even be able to play, let alone get rewarded for their skill. I hope they follow through with this. If all the people threatening to quit actually do it would probably improve the community so much. Too bad they just pretending and probably won't. Can someone help me stop double posting. I'm apparantly retarded when it comes to hitting the correct buttons -_-
I'm not really sure what types of sports you are playing but if you do something illegal on the pitch you'll be carded(warned) or removed(red) from the game. It typically won't effect your season unless you playing at a pro/semi-pro level where it may make you lose out on next game. Swearing at your opponent is pretty normal too. As long as you aren't being racist or going overboard calling someone "a fucking idiot" is pretty normal in all sports I've played. Hell in high school cricket guys would sit there insulting you quietly while you trying to bat to psych you out. Then after the game we would shake hands and have a laugh because we were mature enough to understand that what happens in the game doesn't reflect how we are outside of the game.
Honestly hearing LoL people talk about sports analogies to justify this whiney crybaby "toxicity" bullcrap makes me wonder how many sports they actually played. If this was real life you would have to grow some thicker skin to handle actually playing.
It's also kind of hilarious how much schadenfreude is going on now. I wonder how so many people will think if they got a low priority for something out of their control or a short chat restriction because they had a bad day. Really all the people basking in this decision are more "toxic" than the toxic people.
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On August 21 2015 20:46 Numy wrote:Honestly hearing LoL people talk about sports analogies to justify this whiney crybaby "toxicity" bullcrap makes me wonder how many sports they actually played. If this was real life you would have to grow some thicker skin to handle actually playing.
Stupid part is that you used to have to grow a thicker skin in other games too, like, where did the victim, can't find the mute button mentality come from?
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I mean I'm all for guys that go overboard flaming getting punished that's never been an issue but it seems like people want anything that could be perceived in a negative light to be punished. I personally think flaming or calling people dumb doesn't help you win anyway. That doesn't mean someone calling something dumb I did dumb deserves punishment or is somehow "toxic". We aren't all little snowflakes, human interaction is always going to have some bothersome elements that you just have to deal with. In a competitive game/sports/event that's going to be a little bit worse as peoples emotions are heightened, one just has to accept there is going to be some small strife regardless of what you try to do.
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If they want to make a nice person ranking system, sure, why not? But don't take away from the skill rank, because of something that has 0 to do with skill.
That's like saying a pro football player isn't that great cause he says racist stuff off the field. Does that decrease his skill level? The f?
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EPT
