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On August 06 2015 03:41 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2015 03:34 Numy wrote:On August 06 2015 03:29 GrandInquisitor wrote:
That Sandbox paragraph is fascinating. I love it because it is guaranteed to stir up drama. It's a totally different approach towards the idea of "being good at League of Legends", one that is explicitly and unashamedly focused at people who do NOT read Reddit or TeamLiquid. It's a shame that it'll just get meme-ified like COMPETITIVE INTEGRITY BOYZ, because there's a good discussion to be had here about the barriers to entry.
Does it scare people off, the idea that there's a practice mode in the game to focus on particular skills? We all say no, because we're here on TeamLiquid, but what about the rest of the 67 million players, many of whom aren't in ranked? How many will see that being released and quit the game because they don't want to feel like they have to practice that stuff? Games have had sandbox type modes since before 1998. "Casual" people just don't even know what it is or care about it. Hell I just gave an example of Call of Duty, the biggest fking casual shooter around having it and no one is scared off. It's such a horseshit argument. It's the same strawman fearmongering you see politicians use to get votes. Create an imaginary enemy/problem to a relatively simple thing in order to get people afraid of this imaginary enemy/problem that just doesn't exist so you keep them under your control without ever doing anything. See, I love the drama this stirs up. Announcing no plans to implement a sandbox mode = literally 1984 Is it not inconceivable that people want to play for fun and not take the game seriously? I just wanna play beer pong, but everyone else in my frat is constantly practicing and so I feel like if I want to play with them I gotta take it as seriously as they do. I don't mind playing to get better but I don't want to spend my time honing skills in a non-drinking environment. So maybe I go play something else instead. To clarify: in no way is this my philosophy. I would play the shit out of the sandbox mode (and would be looking up and practicing optimal beer pong cup arrangements). But I would not be surprised if a lot of people think this way. I mean, I can't imagine people not playing ranked, and yet most of the people that I have met in real life that also happen to play League never play ranked.
I don't even see how this is a stance. We have years of games with these tools that even fall under the same genre as League that has never ever had this issue. So how exactly is this now a thing? Where this fear come from? It seems to me that it's merely manufactured as an excuse to not implement. People who don' care about being competitive just don't care about practice modes. That's what hundreds of years of sports and competitions have proven. Yet now all of a sudden those people would be so afraid of practice that they will quit their casual fun?
I get you are just playing devils advocate here but I don't even see how there's a secondary stance. It's merely bullshit.
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If you'd like some more RiToLogic, Pwyff made this comment on Reddit.
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/jqynV/3e216d3422.png)
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So basically "people are dicks and this will just give them other ways to abuse you".Well before a while they didn't want to add champs with abilities that can fuck your team like bard ult but there are 2 already.Hopefully they stop being retards.And here I thought sandbox mode didn't exist because of shitty code restrictions.
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It makes no sense, people already tell you to go uninstall and I imagine that's worse than being told to go play Sandbox/Normal.
Also probably more likely to be told to drink bleach or kill yourself anyway : )
This is probably closer to the truth.
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Gilgamesh has nothing on Riot's arrogance. Why can't they just say "we don't want to do it" or "we can't do it" instead of this. It looks so much worse.
It's not even a "sandbox mode". It's just enabling "cheats" in custom games. That's it. Calling it a "sandbox mode" make it seem like something completely new.
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im not playing devils advocate here. i would never use a sandbox mode in a multiplayer game. i like that they wont let nerds spend hours in it to get a leg up for no reason other then them having time to waste.
as i said its there convoluted explanation thats funny
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Sandbox mode should be less effort than the new HUD, by a lot.
If they really want to get new players they need to eliminate runes and give players a champion free for every level 1-30.
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The worst thing is I want to say I am surprised but I am really not.This is the same company that tried to forbid league pros from streaming other games.
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"We have a platonic idea of what the community should be and don't want introduce anything that would potentially make our game's community different from this idea."
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Wait then he says "sandbox mode vs other training methods". That makes no sense. If their whole stance is that by putting in anything that could be used for training purposes they creating a requirement to use said methods than by adding in other methods of training that isn't sandbox they are going against that.
I swear Riot employees are either completely stoned or believe they are Gods.
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Riot's stance on the whole 'sandbox mode' is very weak, and if they want eSports to be taken seriously and have League remain a competitive game, they need to allow for a way to practice various things (flashing over walls, item builds, etc.) without requiring a team to set up a specific set of circumstances and spend 30+ minutes just to get to where they want to practice to begin with (like mid or late game team fighting). Traditional sports allow (hell, encourage) practicing various things (free throws in basketball, strategies and formations in American Football, pitches in baseball, etc.) because they want their players to be in as good a form as they can possibly be, assuming no health issues arise from the practices (ie., injuries).
CS:GO, SC2, Dota 2 (to a lesser extent), and Hearthstone (to a small extent) all have some sort of way to practice various mechanics/movements, test out new ideas, and refine old strategies.
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I've literally used custom games as a sandbox to practice wall jumps, CSing, jungle routes etc.
We have a sandbox mode, it just isn't fully featured.
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United States23745 Posts
Talk about bad PR. Riot would have been better off just saying "nah, we aren't gonna do sandbox mode just because."
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There's idiots at every company.
You can use the same argument against replays. You don't want people poring over replays to improve. But if that's a feature the people want maybe you should've think of yourself as the god that gets to ignore them and decide otherwise.
Game's too buggy, architecture is shit, and Riot moves at a snail's pace so replays aren't implemented. And people are already practicing shit in customs wasting time, why not give a custom mode?
You think Sandbox mode will affect the worst of the worst players? They probably won't even use it. There's no change in your expectation of a player.
If you enjoy sandbox mode who the fuck is to say that's the wrong way to enjoy the game?
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On August 06 2015 04:44 Seuss wrote:
I've literally used custom games as a sandbox to practice wall jumps, CSing, jungle routes etc.
We have a sandbox mode, it just isn't fully featured.
Yeah, Dota 2 has custom games too, and they have chat commands to allow for various testing of items or builds or skilling points so you have an idea of how to play a new hero.
If League implemented that (chat commands/cheat codes) it'd probably be all that a team would need/want.
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Hey guys, looking for some feedback here. Based on my observations, and specific complaints from users, it seems that GD has two camps of players - those primarily concerned with discussing gameplay under the new patch, and those concerned with general discussion of League (game design, balance philosophy, the current discussion about sandbox mode) and just use the patch thread for it.
We're thinking of splitting this into two threads, one each patch in the strategy section with the actual patch notes for patch / gameplay discussion, and one generic game-related GD that gets refreshed each patch just for the sake of cutting down on a giant monolithic GD thread like LiquidDota used(?) to have(has?).
Poll: Thoughts?I wouldn't like that (31) 74% I would like that (8) 19% I would like that but don't think it will work (2) 5% I wouldn't like that but think it will work (1) 2% My opinion is way too nuanced to put in one of the general buckets (0) 0% 42 total votes Your vote: Thoughts? (Vote): I would like that
(Vote): I wouldn't like that
(Vote): I would like that but don't think it will work
(Vote): I wouldn't like that but think it will work
(Vote): My opinion is way too nuanced to put in one of the general buckets
So as not to derail this thread away from the current discussion about sandbox mode, please put comments in website feedback.
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On August 06 2015 04:00 VayneAuthority wrote:
im not playing devils advocate here. i would never use a sandbox mode in a multiplayer game. i like that they wont let nerds spend hours in it to get a leg up for no reason other then them having time to waste.
as i said its there convoluted explanation thats funny
Grinding games isn't any different in that regard. It doesn't matter what tools you give or don't give the nerds, the nerds will be better than you because they will spend more time on the game. If they do some of the most annoying parts of that by themselves in a custom game, who cares? The end result is exactly the same. It's not like training mode can possibly replace actually playing the game or help people do crazy technical combos no one else can because League doesn't have crazy technical combos (compared to the fighting games Riot is using to justify their opinion).
Even if you don't have a training mode there's a lot of places where "nerds" can and do grind mechanics. Nidalee jumps, fizz pole tricks, azir q->e tricks, ward placement, last hitting, and learning to jungle are just a few I can name off the top of my head (I've heard mention of people going into custom games to practice each of them and done most of these myself). So what exactly is the harm in adding high cooldown abilities to this list?
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On August 06 2015 03:29 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Does it scare people off, the idea that there's a practice mode in the game to focus on particular skills? We all say no, because we're here on TeamLiquid, but what about the rest of the 67 million players, many of whom aren't in ranked? How many will see that being released and quit the game because they don't want to feel like they have to practice that stuff?
ur joking right?? u want a game to be balanced around the lowest common denominator?? theres a reason theres a matchmaking system in the game, ranked or unranked, theres still a matchmaking system. and it will sort those who take the game seriously, to those who play more casually
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EPT
