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On August 20 2015 01:02 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2015 16:47 cLutZ wrote:On August 19 2015 13:54 obesechicken13 wrote:On August 19 2015 13:29 cLutZ wrote:
General question: isn't % ar/Mr reduction equally effective no matter the target? No, never. If you want %increase in damage then it's better to reduce armor on high armor targets. A 50% decrease in armor on a 100 armor target means you do (100+100)/(100+50)=33% more damage A 50% decrease in armor on a 50 armor target means you do (100+50)/(100+25)=20% more damage If you're talking about flat damage, then in the first case you're removing more armor than the second case which means a larger damage difference. Eg. going from 100 damage to 133 damage is 33 damage increase on the first target. (you did 200 physical damage before resists). Going from 133 damage to 160 damage is 27 damage increase on the second target. (you did 200 physical damage before resists) Here is actually the scenario: Alpha has 100 AD and 30% Arp Beta has 100 AD and 0% Arp Gamma has 10000 HP and 50 Armor Delta has 10000 HP and 500 Armor Does it matter which attacker attacks which defender? Please explain. Edit. Updated because no one actually has 0 armor. Yeah it matters. Let's say Alpha attacks Delta and Beta attacks Gamma, the correct option by my intuition. Higher arp vs higher armor. 10000/(100*(100/(100+500*(1-.3)))) = t1 for attacking gamma = 450s assuming 1 aspd. 10000/(100*(100/(100+50*(1-0)))) = t2 = 150s assuming 1 aspd So After 150s Beta has finished attacking Gamma, and can help kill Delta. After 150s, Alpha has dealth 33333 damage to Delta, leaving 6667 life remaining. 6667/(100*(100/(100+500*(1-.3)))+100*(100/(100+500*(1-0))))=t3 the time for both combined to finish delta = 171 seconds The total time here is 171+150 for 321 seconds. The other way around 10000/(100*(100/(100+500*(1-0)))) = t1 for attacking gamma = 600s assuming 1 aspd. 10000/(100*(100/(100+50*(1-.3)))) = t2 time attacking delta = 135s After 135s delta is dead and gama is at (600-135)/600*10000=7750 life 7750/(100/(100*(100+500*(1-.3)))+100*(100/(100+500*(1-0))))=t3 = 199s 135+199=334s You shave off 13 seconds in the first scenario.
Checked ur math, it looks good. Its because of the armor calculation formula. Still, only a 4% difference, so its kind of silly to say its significantly better against tanks.
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On August 20 2015 03:22 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 01:02 obesechicken13 wrote:On August 19 2015 16:47 cLutZ wrote:On August 19 2015 13:54 obesechicken13 wrote:On August 19 2015 13:29 cLutZ wrote:
General question: isn't % ar/Mr reduction equally effective no matter the target? No, never. If you want %increase in damage then it's better to reduce armor on high armor targets. A 50% decrease in armor on a 100 armor target means you do (100+100)/(100+50)=33% more damage A 50% decrease in armor on a 50 armor target means you do (100+50)/(100+25)=20% more damage If you're talking about flat damage, then in the first case you're removing more armor than the second case which means a larger damage difference. Eg. going from 100 damage to 133 damage is 33 damage increase on the first target. (you did 200 physical damage before resists). Going from 133 damage to 160 damage is 27 damage increase on the second target. (you did 200 physical damage before resists) Here is actually the scenario: Alpha has 100 AD and 30% Arp Beta has 100 AD and 0% Arp Gamma has 10000 HP and 50 Armor Delta has 10000 HP and 500 Armor Does it matter which attacker attacks which defender? Please explain. Edit. Updated because no one actually has 0 armor. Yeah it matters. Let's say Alpha attacks Delta and Beta attacks Gamma, the correct option by my intuition. Higher arp vs higher armor. 10000/(100*(100/(100+500*(1-.3)))) = t1 for attacking gamma = 450s assuming 1 aspd. 10000/(100*(100/(100+50*(1-0)))) = t2 = 150s assuming 1 aspd So After 150s Beta has finished attacking Gamma, and can help kill Delta. After 150s, Alpha has dealth 33333 damage to Delta, leaving 6667 life remaining. 6667/(100*(100/(100+500*(1-.3)))+100*(100/(100+500*(1-0))))=t3 the time for both combined to finish delta = 171 seconds The total time here is 171+150 for 321 seconds. The other way around 10000/(100*(100/(100+500*(1-0)))) = t1 for attacking gamma = 600s assuming 1 aspd. 10000/(100*(100/(100+50*(1-.3)))) = t2 time attacking delta = 135s After 135s delta is dead and gama is at (600-135)/600*10000=7750 life 7750/(100/(100*(100+500*(1-.3)))+100*(100/(100+500*(1-0))))=t3 = 199s 135+199=334s You shave off 13 seconds in the first scenario. Checked ur math, it looks good. Its because of the armor calculation formula. Still, only a 4% difference, so its kind of silly to say its significantly better against tanks.
4% overall, but the difference in time to kill a tank is significantly higher without the armor pen.
Even if you're only getting small differences between LW and components of another offensive item, the differences exist.
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as an aside I'm really pleasantly surprised with how fast two camping caught on at least at my normal mmr, it's really fast and easy and makes top lane a lot safer (and gives you a nice lead when they don't do it). Almost every game when I ask to two camp the jungler is not only aware of the strat but is totally down, I hope this continues.
I remember back when I first started playing how long it took for leashing wolf camp at 1:40 to catch on of course I was pretty bad back then so my mmr was probably a lot lower.
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What is two camping? Is that double jungling for two camps?
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top lane does first two camps with jungler, does all the tanking so jungler can save pots, thus helping his clear, top laner takes all of the small minions so he can tp to top level 2 with dorans + 5 pots or flask + cloth
because you have two people doing damage it takes roughly the same time as the old solo 1 camp + tp so you don't really miss any more cs than the old strat
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On August 20 2015 03:15 Caiada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 02:29 Slusher wrote:
I dunno I don't think ghostblade is underrated at all, people buy it all the time on heros it's good on, to imply it being underrated would mean you think people should try it in new builds, which what I've seen so far you are just saying kog?
I don't think I like it at all on Kog, tri/bork build is already a compromise to make him come online earlier, I feel like adding another midgame item to his build would just be taking down his 6 item damage another notch, and I don't think I'd be willing to trade out either of those two items for it. My idea behind Kog would only work as a 5th item in Juggermaw scenarios against comps that can't CC you for long enough to justify QSS, in which case you'd replace PD with it. So, something like Tri/BotrK/LW/IE/GB. The theory is that you're a lot stronger with the combo of W and GB active and PD with Zeke's up wastes 15% crit. Even then, it's marginally better at best and you'll usually want QSS or even Maw, so more of a curiosity than something to consider often. If W CD was short enough for you to regularly get 2 per fight, it might be more interesting to reduce downtime. I don't think Juggermaw fights usually last that long though.
I always thought GB was for the burst power it gives, and it combines nicely with the mobility of certain champs (Twitch stealth, Vayne passive). Kog does have a very real downtime on his W, but he still deals nice damage without it (Q passive with BotRK), it's just his range and lack of mobility. Personally I would never sacrifice PD, relying on Zeke's doesn't sound like a good idea. But if I were to do so, I would replace it with Zephyr, and not Ghostblade. That would still give you 80% crit with Zeke's, which in the long term damage of a fight isn't that far from 100% crit (although RNGesus might still hate you). And your AS is almost capped.
GB just doesn't seem a very good late game investment unless you're somehow finding yourself in the position to kill squishies every fight. A double crit with Sheen, ArPen and Kog W could probably three shot or get very close to it. And Kog isn't really the champion best to do that with.
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On August 20 2015 03:42 Slusher wrote:
top lane does first two camps with jungler, does all the tanking so jungler can save pots, thus helping his clear, top laner takes all of the small minions so he can tp to top level 2 with dorans + 5 pots or flask + cloth
because you have two people doing damage it takes roughly the same time as the old solo 1 camp + tp so you don't really miss any more cs than the old strat
I'm playing in high silver/low gold elo ranges and I still have games where people don't even leash.
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Nobody should ever buy Zephyr. Fuck that item is horrible. If you ever need that Tenacity, you should have QSS. If you need a boot replacement, buy a PD. It fits nowhere.
On LW/Void: That's kinda always been the balancing issue with them. Void on a champ with good base is an efficient use of 2500 gold against every target. Same reason I highly value Liandry's now that it's so efficient.
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On August 20 2015 03:33 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 03:22 cLutZ wrote:On August 20 2015 01:02 obesechicken13 wrote:On August 19 2015 16:47 cLutZ wrote:On August 19 2015 13:54 obesechicken13 wrote:On August 19 2015 13:29 cLutZ wrote:
General question: isn't % ar/Mr reduction equally effective no matter the target? No, never. If you want %increase in damage then it's better to reduce armor on high armor targets. A 50% decrease in armor on a 100 armor target means you do (100+100)/(100+50)=33% more damage A 50% decrease in armor on a 50 armor target means you do (100+50)/(100+25)=20% more damage If you're talking about flat damage, then in the first case you're removing more armor than the second case which means a larger damage difference. Eg. going from 100 damage to 133 damage is 33 damage increase on the first target. (you did 200 physical damage before resists). Going from 133 damage to 160 damage is 27 damage increase on the second target. (you did 200 physical damage before resists) Here is actually the scenario: Alpha has 100 AD and 30% Arp Beta has 100 AD and 0% Arp Gamma has 10000 HP and 50 Armor Delta has 10000 HP and 500 Armor Does it matter which attacker attacks which defender? Please explain. Edit. Updated because no one actually has 0 armor. Yeah it matters. Let's say Alpha attacks Delta and Beta attacks Gamma, the correct option by my intuition. Higher arp vs higher armor. 10000/(100*(100/(100+500*(1-.3)))) = t1 for attacking gamma = 450s assuming 1 aspd. 10000/(100*(100/(100+50*(1-0)))) = t2 = 150s assuming 1 aspd So After 150s Beta has finished attacking Gamma, and can help kill Delta. After 150s, Alpha has dealth 33333 damage to Delta, leaving 6667 life remaining. 6667/(100*(100/(100+500*(1-.3)))+100*(100/(100+500*(1-0))))=t3 the time for both combined to finish delta = 171 seconds The total time here is 171+150 for 321 seconds. The other way around 10000/(100*(100/(100+500*(1-0)))) = t1 for attacking gamma = 600s assuming 1 aspd. 10000/(100*(100/(100+50*(1-.3)))) = t2 time attacking delta = 135s After 135s delta is dead and gama is at (600-135)/600*10000=7750 life 7750/(100/(100*(100+500*(1-.3)))+100*(100/(100+500*(1-0))))=t3 = 199s 135+199=334s You shave off 13 seconds in the first scenario. Checked ur math, it looks good. Its because of the armor calculation formula. Still, only a 4% difference, so its kind of silly to say its significantly better against tanks. 4% overall, but the difference in time to kill a tank is significantly higher without the armor pen. Even if you're only getting small differences between LW and components of another offensive item, the differences exist.
Well my point was simply that LW/Void are actually just very good DPS items in general even if the other team isn't stacking resists, which seems to still be true.
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This (5.16) is the first patch that I just hate with my whole body and soul. What were they thinking.
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that double tap minion buff is so subtle yet so nice oh my
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Garen's W:
STACK ATTACK Passively, Killing units permanently grants 0.2 Armor and Magic Resist (1 for kills on Champions, Large Monsters and Epic Monsters), up to a maximum of 10/15/20/25/30
Didn't they change it on PBE so that you could always reach 30 without the need to level the skill more than once? They talked about it, and the wiki says the PBE's this way. Did they forget about it or changed it again? That's 25 minion kills per level, you won't really be farming late game.
Yeah for Skarner the text says they lower his MS but the changes don't mention that stat. They dun goofed with the notes.
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So basically they just nerfed Garen's earlygame and didn't buff his lategame? This seems sketchy at best for a champ that was already definitely not meta.
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Why buff Kassadin? Who thinks of these things?
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Darius Q still looks too weak, I feel like he'll get mauled by melee champions with the hilt doing like 50 damage and not applying a bleed stack
bloodrage sounded interesting in the reveal but he practically needs it to do his 5.15 damage...
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Shifting more power into Viktor lategame. Seems fine to me. Mana stuff probably persuades him to pick up Morello more often?
Darius is the only one of the reworks I care about, and it seems... good? I think his passive blood rage thing is possibly too good if he abuses low targets and DMP works out. Losing some early bullying is unfortunate. It's really very easy to hit with the blade, but the lower early damage still makes it worse. The heal is nice and all, but it was nice being able to flat kill idiots who disrespected my damage.
Mermaid buffs \o/
Still think Sterak's is a fascinating item that could get a lot of play. DMP is just a Randuin replacement in function, honestly. Titanic is fun for Darius, other guys who will use the waveclear and health Hydra did not formerly offer. I don't think Warmog's was good before; it's still not good.
250 gold off banner cost means it really should be in every game no matter the support. Early Aegis -> Zeke's -> Banner will be good.
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On August 20 2015 04:05 Alaric wrote:Garen's W: Show nested quote +STACK ATTACK Passively, Killing units permanently grants 0.2 Armor and Magic Resist (1 for kills on Champions, Large Monsters and Epic Monsters), up to a maximum of 10/15/20/25/30 Didn't they change it on PBE so that you could always reach 30 without the need to level the skill more than once? They talked about it, and the wiki says the PBE's this way. Did they forget about it or changed it again? That's 25 minion kills per level, you won't really be farming late game. Yeah for Skarner the text says they lower his MS but the changes don't mention that stat. They dun goofed with the notes.
If I'm remembering correctly from when I messed around the PBE you're capped by rank but keep earning stacks that apply once you rank up.
It's been a while since I was on the PBE so this may not be the case.
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hahaha this next patch seems like a shit show. They buffed a few of my champs though so whatever. Interested in trying the new skarner of the 4, seems viable as long as devourer is a thing. The on demand stun on E is gonna make his pre 6 way better at least. I actually have a pretty good build in mind for new skarner.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 20 2015 04:10 cLutZ wrote:
Why buff Kassadin? Who thinks of these things?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7O9txOB.png)
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EPT
