|
On July 21 2015 12:21 Amarok wrote:
Riot just changes everything. They don't have some crusade against splitpushing they just want things to be different at different points in time. They buffed the hell out of Teleport which is the splitpushing summoner and the last two things that happened to Jax were buffs. They also nerfed laneswaps (supposedly the counter to splitpushing) by making turrets more resilient to early pushes and at various times have nerfed everything in the game from poke to wombo to sieging to ADC damage to sustain. There's no overarching conspiracy against any one type of play, only change.
Split-pushing has consistently been nerfed at the beginning of every season. It's not always direct, but it's always there. T2/3 turret changes, homeguard introduction, increased importance to baron/dragon, increased local/decreased global turret gold, decreased value of inhibitors, Righteous Glory, Homeguard + Teleport combination. I'd also argue that champion balance is largely in a direction that discourages split-pushing, but even without that, it's pretty clear Riot's been trying to stamp it out as a strategy until very recently.
And the buff to teleport is most definitely a nerf to split-pushing. Teleport is MUCH better for the defender than the attacker--the attacker is free to leave whenever he wants. The defender can only leave when he gets the lane pushed out or he knows the attacker isn't going to be there (because he teleported to the teamfight).
Edit: The nerf to Lichbane was also pretty big, although that's one of the few that I think was incidental and not targeted.
|
On July 21 2015 14:37 Nos- wrote:
tahm kench grey health is so frustrating
Team: brb, we have to burn through this guy's 8k health.
|
On July 21 2015 21:37 Gahlo wrote:Team: brb, we have to burn through this guy's 8k health.
Who needs a passive revive when you can't die amirite
|
On July 21 2015 23:07 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 21:37 Gahlo wrote:On July 21 2015 14:37 Nos- wrote:
tahm kench grey health is so frustrating Team: brb, we have to burn through this guy's 8k health. Who needs a passive revive when you can't die amirite
Brb, buying GA anyway. Gotta get that resists/shield synergy goin.
|
In attempt to optimize my lane phase, I was doing some calculations on what is best on Rengar vs AP lane, flat health, flat Armor or flat MR seals (Glyphs are CDR, I don't compromise here). So even though MR seals are secondary, I wanted to check how it will work out.
I used the formula: Effective Health = Health*(100+Resists [Armor or MR])/100, I also calculated for Doran Blade (+70 health) and Long Sword starts
Unfortunately, I deleted the exact results, however, what I got showed that Flat Health Seals provide between 30 and 90 more effective health for the 1st few levels, both against AD or AP opponent.
The formula will show similar results for other champs below 100 MR or Armor and because we only talk about optimization at lvls 1-6, it means that everyone who aims for flat seals, should go for health seals, including junglers and adcs. Perhaps some junglers that plan to build tanky will benefit more from flat armor runes, since, the formula graph changes at 100 armor, but still either my calculations miss something important or people should just use flat health seals every time, when they go for flat runes and not scaling.
|
Today I read people saying that riot hates split pushing, prompted by riot giving big buffs to a champion designed to be a split pusher.
|
On July 21 2015 23:07 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 21:37 Gahlo wrote:On July 21 2015 14:37 Nos- wrote:
tahm kench grey health is so frustrating Team: brb, we have to burn through this guy's 8k health. Who needs a passive revive when you can't die amirite
In a way, I see Tahm's grey health like Nasus Q. It seems intimidating on paper, but without a reliable method of delivery (no gaoclosers, etc) you will just get kited and die.
Although I do admit Thornmail is kind of funny on him.
|
On July 22 2015 00:29 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 23:07 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 21 2015 21:37 Gahlo wrote:On July 21 2015 14:37 Nos- wrote:
tahm kench grey health is so frustrating Team: brb, we have to burn through this guy's 8k health. Who needs a passive revive when you can't die amirite In a way, I see Tahm's grey health like Nasus Q. It seems intimidating on paper, but without a reliable method of delivery (no gaoclosers, etc) you will just get kited and die. Although I do admit Thornmail is kind of funny on him.
I see him as a nice tanky top for a poke type comp that just wants to disengage.
|
I really dislike his new passive though. new E basically gives no reason to ever go tanky gangplank again and pretty much the only viable build is damage. so why would they say hes hit and run then give him this passive that only works with melee AA...
sounds like he will dumpster low damage tanks top though. true damage...high armor pen...heal...even true damage on his ult if you want.
|
On July 22 2015 00:33 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 00:29 Sufficiency wrote:On July 21 2015 23:07 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 21 2015 21:37 Gahlo wrote:On July 21 2015 14:37 Nos- wrote:
tahm kench grey health is so frustrating Team: brb, we have to burn through this guy's 8k health. Who needs a passive revive when you can't die amirite In a way, I see Tahm's grey health like Nasus Q. It seems intimidating on paper, but without a reliable method of delivery (no gaoclosers, etc) you will just get kited and die. Although I do admit Thornmail is kind of funny on him. I see him as a nice tanky top for a poke type comp that just wants to disengage.
Except he does no damage as a top laner. Not to mention his awful laning phase...
|
On July 22 2015 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote:
I really dislike his new passive though. new E basically gives no reason to ever go tanky gangplank again and pretty much the only viable build is damage. so why would they say hes hit and run then give him this passive that only works with melee AA...
sounds like he will dumpster low damage tanks top though. true damage...high armor pen...heal...even true damage on his ult if you want.
It doesn't matter. He will be a splitpusher. A small dash of survivability is good enough.
|
On July 21 2015 23:49 M2 wrote:
In attempt to optimize my lane phase, I was doing some calculations on what is best on Rengar vs AP lane, flat health, flat Armor or flat MR seals (Glyphs are CDR, I don't compromise here). So even though MR seals are secondary, I wanted to check how it will work out.
I used the formula: Effective Health = Health*(100+Resists [Armor or MR])/100, I also calculated for Doran Blade (+70 health) and Long Sword starts
Unfortunately, I deleted the exact results, however, what I got showed that Flat Health Seals provide between 30 and 90 more effective health for the 1st few levels, both against AD or AP opponent.
The formula will show similar results for other champs below 100 MR or Armor and because we only talk about optimization at lvls 1-6, it means that everyone who aims for flat seals, should go for health seals, including junglers and adcs. Perhaps some junglers that plan to build tanky will benefit more from flat armor runes, since, the formula graph changes at 100 armor, but still either my calculations miss something important or people should just use flat health seals every time, when they go for flat runes and not scaling.
If you're just looking at Health and Resists, then the numbers do seem to favor Flat Health. However, you need to factor in sustain, regen, and potions into the mix as well.
This is especially the case for junglers who, in addition to natural regen and potions, get 7-10 health per second in combat, up to 30 health from finishing off a big creep, and additional health from Red buff (both the buff itself and smiting the camp).
|
On July 22 2015 00:42 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote:
I really dislike his new passive though. new E basically gives no reason to ever go tanky gangplank again and pretty much the only viable build is damage. so why would they say hes hit and run then give him this passive that only works with melee AA...
sounds like he will dumpster low damage tanks top though. true damage...high armor pen...heal...even true damage on his ult if you want. It doesn't matter. He will be a splitpusher. A small dash of survivability is good enough.
yea its just funny how they could change his passive to that and define his bruiser role or change e and define his hit and run. instead they make it so he has zero identity again ^^
|
I think you're taking too narrow a view regarding his passive. Yeah it's not 100% perfect for hit and run, but it still adds a lot and solidifies his laning phase. The whole "identity" thing is a red herring.
|
im just talking from experience. I've played gangplank since before ranked even existed. after laning (and only vs a melee character at that) there is like a 2% chance I will ever use this passive. you parley/barrel and run and thats the end of that. if you go into melee range vs anything worth harassing chances are they will just kill you unless way ahead.
|
How the fuck does E mean you should never go tanky?
On July 22 2015 01:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
im just talking from experience. I've played gangplank since before ranked even existed. after laning (and only vs a melee character at that) there is like a 2% chance I will ever use this passive. you parley/barrel and run and thats the end of that. if you go into melee range vs anything worth harassing chances are they will just kill you unless way ahead.
Again, how in the fuck?
Let's see. E is an 40-80% slow, penetrates more than half of armor. Passive is 30-200 true damage, that you can use at least twice in a trade. W is a heal as big as it ever was in low-health situations. And is a free cleanse.
How in the fuck is someone going to kill you unless you've fucked up every trade or got poked down by playing a ranged matchup poorly?
|
On July 22 2015 01:29 Caiada wrote:How the fuck does E mean you should never go tanky? Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 01:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
im just talking from experience. I've played gangplank since before ranked even existed. after laning (and only vs a melee character at that) there is like a 2% chance I will ever use this passive. you parley/barrel and run and thats the end of that. if you go into melee range vs anything worth harassing chances are they will just kill you unless way ahead. Again, how in the fuck? Let's see. E is an 80% slow, penetrates more than half of armor. Passive is 20-200 true damage, that you can use at least twice in a trade. W is a heal as big as it ever was. How in the fuck is someone going to kill you unless you've fucked up every trade or got poked down by some ranged bullshit?
It's the 500-range-Lucian-GG syndrome.
|
The best thing about new gp is there are gonna be alot of montages of tf/ie/shiv gp waiting in bushes with a train of kegs to bop people.
|
On July 22 2015 01:29 Caiada wrote:How the fuck does E mean you should never go tanky? Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 01:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
im just talking from experience. I've played gangplank since before ranked even existed. after laning (and only vs a melee character at that) there is like a 2% chance I will ever use this passive. you parley/barrel and run and thats the end of that. if you go into melee range vs anything worth harassing chances are they will just kill you unless way ahead. Again, how in the fuck? Let's see. E is an 40-80% slow, penetrates more than half of armor. Passive is 30-200 true damage, that you can use at least twice in a trade. W is a heal as big as it ever was in low-health situations. And is a free cleanse. How in the fuck is someone going to kill you unless you've fucked up every trade or got poked down by playing a ranged matchup poorly?
because you arent putting it into relative terms and getting upset over nothing. teamwide AD buff > damaging ability for incentive to go tank, I don't see how thats a difficult concept
|
On July 22 2015 01:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
im just talking from experience. I've played gangplank since before ranked even existed. after laning (and only vs a melee character at that) there is like a 2% chance I will ever use this passive. you parley/barrel and run and thats the end of that. if you go into melee range vs anything worth harassing chances are they will just kill you unless way ahead.
Sure, you won't get to apply the new passive at range, but you're trading a 7% slow and 63 magic damage DoT at level 18 for a 30% speed boost. For the purposes of hit and run, and most everything else, the latter is far more useful than the former.
On July 22 2015 01:47 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 01:29 Caiada wrote:How the fuck does E mean you should never go tanky? On July 22 2015 01:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
im just talking from experience. I've played gangplank since before ranked even existed. after laning (and only vs a melee character at that) there is like a 2% chance I will ever use this passive. you parley/barrel and run and thats the end of that. if you go into melee range vs anything worth harassing chances are they will just kill you unless way ahead. Again, how in the fuck? Let's see. E is an 40-80% slow, penetrates more than half of armor. Passive is 30-200 true damage, that you can use at least twice in a trade. W is a heal as big as it ever was in low-health situations. And is a free cleanse. How in the fuck is someone going to kill you unless you've fucked up every trade or got poked down by playing a ranged matchup poorly? because you arent putting it into relative terms and getting upset over nothing. teamwide AD buff > damaging ability for incentive to go tank, I don't see how thats a difficult concept
Zone control > Teamwide AD Buff.
You get more than just damage from barrels, an 80% slow is a big deal. We're talking Teemo Shroom levels of disruption and control.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
