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[Patch 5.13] Tahm Kench General Discussion - Page 39

Forum Index > LoL General
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Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
July 21 2015 17:27 GMT
#761
new gp has potential but I really do wish they would have changed his passive completely if this is the final result. not being able to proc it with Parrlay really tilts me.
Carrilord has arrived.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
July 21 2015 17:32 GMT
#762
200 + 120% Bonus AD True Damage wouldn't be balanced if it could proc off Parrrley. It might not even be balanced as is.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
July 21 2015 17:36 GMT
#763
On July 22 2015 02:23 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2015 01:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
im just talking from experience. I've played gangplank since before ranked even existed. after laning (and only vs a melee character at that) there is like a 2% chance I will ever use this passive. you parley/barrel and run and thats the end of that. if you go into melee range vs anything worth harassing chances are they will just kill you unless way ahead.


Sure, you won't get to apply the new passive at range, but you're trading a 7% slow and 63 magic damage DoT at level 18 for a 30% speed boost. For the purposes of hit and run, and most everything else, the latter is far more useful than the former.

Show nested quote +
On July 22 2015 01:47 VayneAuthority wrote:
On July 22 2015 01:29 Caiada wrote:
How the fuck does E mean you should never go tanky?

On July 22 2015 01:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
im just talking from experience. I've played gangplank since before ranked even existed. after laning (and only vs a melee character at that) there is like a 2% chance I will ever use this passive. you parley/barrel and run and thats the end of that. if you go into melee range vs anything worth harassing chances are they will just kill you unless way ahead.


Again, how in the fuck?

Let's see. E is an 40-80% slow, penetrates more than half of armor. Passive is 30-200 true damage, that you can use at least twice in a trade. W is a heal as big as it ever was in low-health situations. And is a free cleanse.

How in the fuck is someone going to kill you unless you've fucked up every trade or got poked down by playing a ranged matchup poorly?


because you arent putting it into relative terms and getting upset over nothing. teamwide AD buff > damaging ability for incentive to go tank, I don't see how thats a difficult concept


Zone control > Teamwide AD Buff.

You get more than just damage from barrels, an 80% slow is a big deal. We're talking Teemo Shroom levels of disruption and control.


lol im not arguing about which E is better. you make infinite better use of your E by going damage over tank. I'm talking about the incentive to build tank. there never is if your trying to optomize your character here.
I come in for the scraps
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-21 17:46:57
July 21 2015 17:43 GMT
#764
On July 22 2015 02:32 Seuss wrote:
200 + 120% Bonus AD True Damage wouldn't be balanced if it could proc off Parrrley. It might not even be balanced as is.


not about balance I'm tilted because my cheese is moved.

I wonder what the final version of the new warrior looks like, I'm tempted to try it on Riven seeing as she's on of the few melee who can go full ad items and not struggle to land damage, stacking it with GP passive also sounds hilarious, but it might be harder to realize the damage.
Carrilord has arrived.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
July 21 2015 17:48 GMT
#765
On July 22 2015 02:36 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2015 02:23 Seuss wrote:
On July 22 2015 01:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
im just talking from experience. I've played gangplank since before ranked even existed. after laning (and only vs a melee character at that) there is like a 2% chance I will ever use this passive. you parley/barrel and run and thats the end of that. if you go into melee range vs anything worth harassing chances are they will just kill you unless way ahead.


Sure, you won't get to apply the new passive at range, but you're trading a 7% slow and 63 magic damage DoT at level 18 for a 30% speed boost. For the purposes of hit and run, and most everything else, the latter is far more useful than the former.

On July 22 2015 01:47 VayneAuthority wrote:
On July 22 2015 01:29 Caiada wrote:
How the fuck does E mean you should never go tanky?

On July 22 2015 01:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
im just talking from experience. I've played gangplank since before ranked even existed. after laning (and only vs a melee character at that) there is like a 2% chance I will ever use this passive. you parley/barrel and run and thats the end of that. if you go into melee range vs anything worth harassing chances are they will just kill you unless way ahead.


Again, how in the fuck?

Let's see. E is an 40-80% slow, penetrates more than half of armor. Passive is 30-200 true damage, that you can use at least twice in a trade. W is a heal as big as it ever was in low-health situations. And is a free cleanse.

How in the fuck is someone going to kill you unless you've fucked up every trade or got poked down by playing a ranged matchup poorly?


because you arent putting it into relative terms and getting upset over nothing. teamwide AD buff > damaging ability for incentive to go tank, I don't see how thats a difficult concept


Zone control > Teamwide AD Buff.

You get more than just damage from barrels, an 80% slow is a big deal. We're talking Teemo Shroom levels of disruption and control.


lol im not arguing about which E is better. you make infinite better use of your E by going damage over tank. I'm talking about the incentive to build tank. there never is if your trying to optomize your character here.


I'm not arguing over which E is better either. I'm pointing out that an 80% AoE slow that refreshes a 200+ damage true damage passive is something that strongly supports building tank, moreso than the teamwide AD buff you brought up as Gangplank's previous incentive to build tank. New Gangplank's barrels, plus his passive, let him go either way.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-21 18:04:59
July 21 2015 18:02 GMT
#766
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/champion-update/champion-update-fiora

Weird ult.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-21 18:16:27
July 21 2015 18:05 GMT
#767
% armour penetration, a flat amount of aditional damage, and heavy cc are all reasons meaning he can function as a tank.

The ArPen means that LW doesn't give him as much damage as it could, for one, which is one less "required" item to go tank. It also means he can duke it out with both tanks and squishies.
The added damage makes his base extremely good, and again reduces the impact of your itemisation (less so with crit since it's a multiplier of the base attack, but 200 means the AD ratio doesn't weight all that much in the end, especially if you only take into account the additional AD he'd get from items).

I could see the reasoning for "full tank" vs "damage", but since he'd build at least one damage item, and probably Triforce over Hydra since E now provides the splash, the fact that Spellblade uses base AD again diminishes the importance of itemisation-based AD compared to his base stats and stuff such as crit and the spell's/attack's base damage.

These are also numbers that can be tuned, obviously. Without the additional damage to champions, "damage" GP suddenly becomes more interesting.


Wtf is that Fiora passive (that's rhetorical, I understood it, but still). Also they don't show if it's directional based on the map (eg. she came from the left) or the champion (the weak spot was in front of Lux).
The video for Lunge doesn't make it clear whether she moves to attack the target after her dash, or whether the area is simply her aa range from her "landing" point.
W looks good, but the design on E "can't crit, then will crit" is... urgh, why? It feels pointless and inelegant.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-21 18:11:58
July 21 2015 18:11 GMT
#768
On July 22 2015 03:02 Ansibled wrote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/champion-update/champion-update-fiora

Weird ult.


Her whole kit just makes no sense. It's like someone came up with that "weak spots" thing then they decided to base her whole champ on this minigame thing. That isn't Fiora and that isn't how you do good design riot :<. Gar I know it's early and she could be really strong but I just feel they completely fucked it up.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
July 21 2015 18:14 GMT
#769
Well at least Riposte is what it always should have been.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
July 21 2015 18:17 GMT
#770
I love how her Q is changed to a skillshot lol, they just can't help themselves.
Carrilord has arrived.
Caiada
Profile Joined January 2015
United States3052 Posts
July 21 2015 18:19 GMT
#771
From one of the most boring assassin kits in the game to near-Vayne levels of silly duelist potential. This actually makes me kind of want to play Fiora.

Q/W/E at least are all infinitely cooler. Only thing I'm iffy on is the strange heal on her ult. Why a heal?
XDG Mata
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 21 2015 18:20 GMT
#772
Why the fuck is there that heal on her ult? I get the whole "you can be useful even if you fight the enemy frontline/help peeling" and "non-damage contribution", but where does a goddamn heal fit thematically? ._.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
July 21 2015 18:21 GMT
#773
I'm guessing they just realized how absolutely horrible she would be in teamfights as trying to randomly hit people in a certain direction is hardly easy in a chaotic teamfight so they threw in some random "aoe" on it but realized a stun or slow may be too powerful.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 21 2015 18:21 GMT
#774
This weak spot thing looks like they still haven't gotten the memo on melee autos during teamfights.
Freeeeeeedom
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
July 21 2015 18:28 GMT
#775
Well lunge may make it reasonably easy to hit weak spots even in teamfights.

Although tbh while I think the new q and w are nice, the e and ult seem like a stupid design. Why the duck does her ult heal...why can't it give increased aspd or expose all weak spots on enemies in the aoe or something. The heal seems dumb.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 21 2015 18:34 GMT
#776
That's because you're beating your overkilled horse here rather than on reddit.

The thing with the whole ability is that:
  • %maxHP true damage destroys tanks, so she's not just an assassin for squishies, and can help her allies kill a frontline/diver super fast.
  • %maxHP true damage is also "target agnostic" as Riot pointed out already, so even when she's behind her ult is "guaranteed" damage is she can hit it (and even if she uses what little farm she got on survivability to hit all 4 points she's going to deal at least moderate damage), while also reducing her very high snowball potential (as I don't think they'd put a decent ratio on it). She's less binary and it opens up her itemisation.
  • The healing being a ground-targeted zone means that allies (especially ranged, the guys who tend to get dived) can stand in it. If an enemy dives and gets hit, it's harder for him to kill his targets as they'll get healed. It also makes chasing harder depending on numbers, because even if the rest of the enemy team catches up, they won't want to fight in a non-interruptible Janna ult.
  • When she dives, she doesn't have to "kill the damage threat then clean up or die" after her ults wears off like before. If she gets the heal, she lives longer, and the zone helps even if she has to chase a bit (or walks back toward her team). Again, if she's behind but plays it correctly, she can survive going in. Of course W helps that too.


From a design stand-point, it's coherent, although I'm not a fan of it.
But thematically speaking, what does that have to do with Fiora?

Her E is straigth-up ugly too.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
July 21 2015 18:41 GMT
#777
I dont understand the heal thing on Fiora's ulti but k. Anything better than current Fiora.
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
July 21 2015 18:45 GMT
#778
I think she looks really really cool.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
July 21 2015 18:55 GMT
#779
Riposte sounds fun but looks like it will end up being really abusive.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-21 18:59:31
July 21 2015 18:58 GMT
#780
One thing that hasn't been brought up is now much RNG the weak spot mechanic is subject to. If it appears at a random angle, the actual effectiveness/practicality of a weak spot can be heavily dependent on where it appears.

This is doubly so given the near-instantaneous turning speed of champions in LoL, which means there's much higher dependence on where the weak spot appeared and where the enemy chooses to face than on your own character's actual movement. For example, if the weak spot appears at the front of the enemy's model, they cannot fight you without letting you hit the weak spot; if it appears at their back, you basically have to run straight through them and ignore them to actually ever hit it.
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