EPTOn June 05 2015 06:46 Frolossus wrote:
isn't it easier to get s+ in premade because of the bonus points?
isn't it easier to get s+ in premade because of the bonus points?
Pretty sure bonus points are a separate bonus from actual ranking points.
[Patch 5.10] Ekko General Discussion - Page 31
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Pretty sure bonus points are a separate bonus from actual ranking points. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Mensol
14536 Posts
I blame Huni. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35145 Posts
On June 05 2015 06:46 Goumindong wrote: By win rate that seems to be Ashe, Jinx, Sivir, Vayne(then MF/Draven). Only one of which is seen as a "playmaking ADC". Ashe and Sivir can playmake with engages, but that isn't typically what people refer to when they say playmanking. And vayne is probably so high in win rate not because of playmaking but because games are going a lot longer with tier 2 shields and the tank preference makes tank busters good. I am not sure this is the right advise. IE, LW, PD, BotRK does do more damage than BT, but i think that the survivability is better with BT, and once you have BT you're wasting a lot on the lifesteal portion of BotRK compared to more crit with a second PD or more survivability with scimitar. I think that the biggest issues with builds are 1) Not deciding on a specific timing and playing to that timing. 2) Delaying attack speed too long (the level scaling changes did a lot to move idea AS timing a lot earlier) [additionally getting shiv instead of PD] 3) over-valuing IE. We saw in the Ashe DPS example that BT-Pick-PD is about the same if not higher DPS than IE->Zeal. And while crit itself has a lower effect on DPS for Ashe than other AD's its not so much to change the calculus. I am guessing that the survivability of BT or the damage and kite on PD might mean the itemization order is pretty wrong on almost everyone. Like everyone else. Coin is great in a losing matchup. It allows you to play a bit more forward and eat damage for your ADC which you otherwise would not be able to do and still maintain high gold income. Its "total sustain lane fight power" is unmatched by the other support items. Its weakness is in immediate power, knife can allow you to proc it early a few times and use the HP advantage to keep the other support/AD out of lane. But neither is "optimal" on janna. It depends on what the lane is like. If the issue as an ADC is that you die before being able to get the damage out, the logical next step is to try to put out more damage in exchange for defensiveness that isn't helping you anyway. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Scimitar isn't really that great for survivability or damage for the cost unless you require the active, hence why a lot of ADCs are giving Maw a try in soloq. Maw is 600g less for more MR and similar amounts/possibly more AD, along with the 400 health shield. People are tunnel-visioning on their 4th and 5th item choices a lot and it's killing them vs ultra-lategame tanks. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
EDIT: Too many typos, too little time. I give up, come at me any grammar officers. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35145 Posts
On June 05 2015 09:31 Jek wrote: Ok, it's now official FotM is the most stupid item in the game. Just had a game where our top, jungle and I had it and made the adc immortal - who needs peel when you have a million EHP. Dont even want to know how big a total shield she had considering we had two lockets too. Rito pls. And it will continue being dumb until people stop calling you a troll for building it on a non-support. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On June 05 2015 10:01 IMoperator wrote: what's with the new trend of people taking no mr on their AP rune pages now? ive seen a bunch of streamers do it lately, are they all just copying faker or something? For a very long time (since they changed them) using scaling CDR/scaling AP blues has been the high risk/high reward choice for AP mid laners. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
League of skillshots don't need MR if you don't get hit. I get hit, so I take MR blues. Plus I haven't updated any of my rune pages in years, except a couple of jungle ones. I honestly think it doesn't matter that much. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
That and his W is essentially old Veigar E, just easier to land and lacking a cutout in the middle. With a 600 Damage shield. You cannot trade with him when his W is up because then he just laughs in your face and chunks you for 40% and laughs because of the shield. Even if you catch him without the W up, he presses E, dodges your skill shot, and then proceeds to all in you. What an awesome champion. Whenever he isn't banned its freelo for days. Huge lane bully, good wave clear, hard CC, big burst damage, big sustained damage... His only weakness is that he is melee. I don't even think he is particularly difficult to play. He is Akali with Ahri Q, Veigar stun, and R at level 2. Quit banning this champion, I want to climb. :D | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
I dunno about your opinions. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On June 05 2015 14:08 Caiada wrote: Old Veigar's E was instant, point-and-click, and had ~880 range if you knew how to land the edge. I dunno about your opinions. So hard to see in a team fight it doesn't matter. Especially in the river or the jungle. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 05 2015 08:16 Gahlo wrote: If the issue as an ADC is that you die before being able to get the damage out, the logical next step is to try to put out more damage in exchange for defensiveness that isn't helping you anyway. There are two ways to go if you're not surviving. 1) more burst. 2) more defensiveness. Items with high consistent damage like botrk aren't that great here since they don't keep you alive or give you burst. IE only gives you burst if you're lucky. Even with the lifesteal on the prof the lifesteal on BT is a lot stronger. Double lifesteal however is bad; buy red pots instead and work towards an actual good item timing. Edit: well that is a bit too simple. Double lifesteal can be OK if you go back with enough to one buy the item. But generally you have to build it and a long sword plus a red pot is 35 AD and 10% physical vamp for 800 or so gold. The same price as a vamp scepter. And since you already have lifesteal the vamp isn't doing you much good for farming sustain so just get the damn rage pot and be a lot stronger when it's necessary. Then you can build whatever the proper dps item ought to be. On June 05 2015 10:03 Velocirapture wrote: For a very long time (since they changed them) using scaling CDR/scaling AP blues has been the high risk/high reward choice for AP mid laners. More specifically the CDR or AP let's you hit essential wave clear timings faster which lets you accelerate your items regardless of what the other guy is doing even if your behind. | ||
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thejuju
United States413 Posts
On June 05 2015 14:30 Goumindong wrote: There are two ways to go if you're not surviving. 1) more burst. 2) more defensiveness. Items with high consistent damage like botrk aren't that great here since they don't keep you alive or give you burst. IE only gives you burst if you're lucky. Even with the lifesteal on the prof the lifesteal on BT is a lot stronger. Double lifesteal however is bad; buy red pots instead and work towards an actual good item timing. Edit: well that is a bit too simple. Double lifesteal can be OK if you go back with enough to one buy the item. But generally you have to build it and a long sword plus a red pot is 35 AD and 10% physical vamp for 800 or so gold. The same price as a vamp scepter. And since you already have lifesteal the vamp isn't doing you much good for farming sustain so just get the damn rage pot and be a lot stronger when it's necessary. Then you can build whatever the proper dps item ought to be. More specifically the CDR or AP let's you hit essential wave clear timings faster which lets you accelerate your items regardless of what the other guy is doing even if your behind. Double lifesteal is perfectly legit on adcs where you can extend teamfights for a long time. Most of the time though you dont want to sacrifice the huge 2 item spike that is IE + PD/SS. But on like a vayne? Going double lifesteal for more survivability can be favorable against certain comps. I wouldn't do it if I was ahead, but where defense is necessary and qss doesn't help i sometimes will get bt and botrk. Sure I don't three shot squishies, but I can extend fights for so long that sometimes it ends up worth it. In general though crit is king on ads. A single crit on a priority target can completely swing a game in your favor | ||
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Vanka
China1336 Posts
On June 05 2015 14:53 thejuju wrote: Double lifesteal is perfectly legit on adcs where you can extend teamfights for a long time. Most of the time though you dont want to sacrifice the huge 2 item spike that is IE + PD/SS. But on like a vayne? Going double lifesteal for more survivability can be favorable against certain comps. I wouldn't do it if I was ahead, but where defense is necessary and qss doesn't help i sometimes will get bt and botrk. Sure I don't three shot squishies, but I can extend fights for so long that sometimes it ends up worth it. In general though crit is king on ads. A single crit on a priority target can completely swing a game in your favor I was under the impression he was talking about 5 offensive items, not rushing double life steal. Like going ie pd lw bt bortk instead of a defensive item. In other news, the chinese server apparently hasn't discovered ap kog is a viable pick. I feel like I should be abusing this in solo queue, but mid lane is probably my worst role, and laning against solo queue leblanc, annie, zed, talon, fizz etc... | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
They do similar dps, but rage pot has better scaling due to the crit, and better lifesteal due to physical vamp, a better build path due to zeal and the ability to get the rage pot whenever, better kite due to move speed/AS and no minion blocking, and scales better into the lategame due to crit. Similar question pops up when considering BT after a botrk. Rage pot and LW and starting a defensive item just trounces it for much cheaper with a better build in. Or BF and a rage pot allowing you to go for IE or a better mixed defensive item like big hexdrinker. Edit: I feel like you should almost always go whisper second after botrk if you get botrk first. That or Yomuus. You have no AD so crit is almost worthless. You have no crit so IE passive still sucks. You've got AS and Physical on hit and a physical active and so pen is your next logical buy. Plus is cheap to accentuate your one item/two item timing. Then you can get PD and then IE. Edit: lategame you have the same conundrum if you already have BT. You almost always do something else better with any other option besides botrk. If you have botrk however things aren't quite so simple as the shield on BT makes it very effective regardless of your prior itemization (even if it's potentially not the highest dps item). Super late game you should always be selling your botrk for the holy 5 ADC items of IE,PD,LW,BT, (one of PD, Ghostblade, Scimitar, maw) | ||
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