EPTOn June 05 2015 15:13 Vanka wrote:
I was under the impression he was talking about 5 offensive items, not rushing double life steal. Like going ie pd lw bt bortk instead of a defensive item.
In other news, the chinese server apparently hasn't discovered ap kog is a viable pick. I feel like I should be abusing this in solo queue, but mid lane is probably my worst role, and laning against solo queue leblanc, annie, zed, talon, fizz etc...
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On June 05 2015 14:53 thejuju wrote:
Double lifesteal is perfectly legit on adcs where you can extend teamfights for a long time. Most of the time though you dont want to sacrifice the huge 2 item spike that is IE + PD/SS.
But on like a vayne? Going double lifesteal for more survivability can be favorable against certain comps. I wouldn't do it if I was ahead, but where defense is necessary and qss doesn't help i sometimes will get bt and botrk. Sure I don't three shot squishies, but I can extend fights for so long that sometimes it ends up worth it.
In general though crit is king on ads. A single crit on a priority target can completely swing a game in your favor
On June 05 2015 14:30 Goumindong wrote:
There are two ways to go if you're not surviving.
1) more burst.
2) more defensiveness.
Items with high consistent damage like botrk aren't that great here since they don't keep you alive or give you burst. IE only gives you burst if you're lucky. Even with the lifesteal on the prof the lifesteal on BT is a lot stronger.
Double lifesteal however is bad; buy red pots instead and work towards an actual good item timing.
Edit: well that is a bit too simple. Double lifesteal can be OK if you go back with enough to one buy the item. But generally you have to build it and a long sword plus a red pot is 35 AD and 10% physical vamp for 800 or so gold. The same price as a vamp scepter. And since you already have lifesteal the vamp isn't doing you much good for farming sustain so just get the damn rage pot and be a lot stronger when it's necessary. Then you can build whatever the proper dps item ought to be.
More specifically the CDR or AP let's you hit essential wave clear timings faster which lets you accelerate your items regardless of what the other guy is doing even if your behind.
On June 05 2015 08:16 Gahlo wrote:
If the issue as an ADC is that you die before being able to get the damage out, the logical next step is to try to put out more damage in exchange for defensiveness that isn't helping you anyway.
On June 05 2015 06:46 Goumindong wrote:
By win rate that seems to be Ashe, Jinx, Sivir, Vayne(then MF/Draven). Only one of which is seen as a "playmaking ADC".
Ashe and Sivir can playmake with engages, but that isn't typically what people refer to when they say playmanking. And vayne is probably so high in win rate not because of playmaking but because games are going a lot longer with tier 2 shields and the tank preference makes tank busters good.
I am not sure this is the right advise.
IE, LW, PD, BotRK does do more damage than BT, but i think that the survivability is better with BT, and once you have BT you're wasting a lot on the lifesteal portion of BotRK compared to more crit with a second PD or more survivability with scimitar.
I think that the biggest issues with builds are
1) Not deciding on a specific timing and playing to that timing.
2) Delaying attack speed too long (the level scaling changes did a lot to move idea AS timing a lot earlier) [additionally getting shiv instead of PD]
3) over-valuing IE. We saw in the Ashe DPS example that BT-Pick-PD is about the same if not higher DPS than IE->Zeal. And while crit itself has a lower effect on DPS for Ashe than other AD's its not so much to change the calculus. I am guessing that the survivability of BT or the damage and kite on PD might mean the itemization order is pretty wrong on almost everyone.
Like everyone else. Coin is great in a losing matchup. It allows you to play a bit more forward and eat damage for your ADC which you otherwise would not be able to do and still maintain high gold income. Its "total sustain lane fight power" is unmatched by the other support items.
Its weakness is in immediate power, knife can allow you to proc it early a few times and use the HP advantage to keep the other support/AD out of lane.
But neither is "optimal" on janna. It depends on what the lane is like.
On June 05 2015 02:18 Gahlo wrote:
Or play ADC that are capable of making the plays.
On June 05 2015 02:17 Goumindong wrote:
Maybe. Maybe the solution to ADC is to stop trying to make big plays.
On June 04 2015 20:28 IMoperator wrote:
yeah but there's no denying that adc is the most team-reliant role. it's a lot easier to help your team and carry games by getting fed as mid/top/jungle than it is as adc. even if you're fed you still need your team to peel for you and shit
On June 04 2015 18:44 JimmiC wrote:
Maybe u can't 1v5 but ADCs still carry a ton of games. saying anything else is pretty much qqing.
Maybe u can't 1v5 but ADCs still carry a ton of games. saying anything else is pretty much qqing.
yeah but there's no denying that adc is the most team-reliant role. it's a lot easier to help your team and carry games by getting fed as mid/top/jungle than it is as adc. even if you're fed you still need your team to peel for you and shit
Maybe. Maybe the solution to ADC is to stop trying to make big plays.
Or play ADC that are capable of making the plays.
By win rate that seems to be Ashe, Jinx, Sivir, Vayne(then MF/Draven). Only one of which is seen as a "playmaking ADC".
Ashe and Sivir can playmake with engages, but that isn't typically what people refer to when they say playmanking. And vayne is probably so high in win rate not because of playmaking but because games are going a lot longer with tier 2 shields and the tank preference makes tank busters good.
On June 04 2015 14:15 Gahlo wrote:
Don't be afraid to force BotRK on a non-ideal ADC. Your champions theoretical peak doesn't mean shit when it can't throw out enough damage.
On June 04 2015 13:57 RagequitBM wrote:
Was wondering how other ADC mains have been doing in solo queue lately. Ever since cinderhulk my winrate plummeted from around 80% to 40%. Feels like I have zero impact in every game that I fail to go 6 - 0 in lane. Is this just me being inconsistent?
Was wondering how other ADC mains have been doing in solo queue lately. Ever since cinderhulk my winrate plummeted from around 80% to 40%. Feels like I have zero impact in every game that I fail to go 6 - 0 in lane. Is this just me being inconsistent?
Don't be afraid to force BotRK on a non-ideal ADC. Your champions theoretical peak doesn't mean shit when it can't throw out enough damage.
I am not sure this is the right advise.
IE, LW, PD, BotRK does do more damage than BT, but i think that the survivability is better with BT, and once you have BT you're wasting a lot on the lifesteal portion of BotRK compared to more crit with a second PD or more survivability with scimitar.
I think that the biggest issues with builds are
1) Not deciding on a specific timing and playing to that timing.
2) Delaying attack speed too long (the level scaling changes did a lot to move idea AS timing a lot earlier) [additionally getting shiv instead of PD]
3) over-valuing IE. We saw in the Ashe DPS example that BT-Pick-PD is about the same if not higher DPS than IE->Zeal. And while crit itself has a lower effect on DPS for Ashe than other AD's its not so much to change the calculus. I am guessing that the survivability of BT or the damage and kite on PD might mean the itemization order is pretty wrong on almost everyone.
On June 05 2015 05:23 sob3k wrote:
Im pretty sure coin is optimal on janna, spelltheif is really crappy on her.
Im pretty sure coin is optimal on janna, spelltheif is really crappy on her.
Like everyone else. Coin is great in a losing matchup. It allows you to play a bit more forward and eat damage for your ADC which you otherwise would not be able to do and still maintain high gold income. Its "total sustain lane fight power" is unmatched by the other support items.
Its weakness is in immediate power, knife can allow you to proc it early a few times and use the HP advantage to keep the other support/AD out of lane.
But neither is "optimal" on janna. It depends on what the lane is like.
If the issue as an ADC is that you die before being able to get the damage out, the logical next step is to try to put out more damage in exchange for defensiveness that isn't helping you anyway.
There are two ways to go if you're not surviving.
1) more burst.
2) more defensiveness.
Items with high consistent damage like botrk aren't that great here since they don't keep you alive or give you burst. IE only gives you burst if you're lucky. Even with the lifesteal on the prof the lifesteal on BT is a lot stronger.
Double lifesteal however is bad; buy red pots instead and work towards an actual good item timing.
Edit: well that is a bit too simple. Double lifesteal can be OK if you go back with enough to one buy the item. But generally you have to build it and a long sword plus a red pot is 35 AD and 10% physical vamp for 800 or so gold. The same price as a vamp scepter. And since you already have lifesteal the vamp isn't doing you much good for farming sustain so just get the damn rage pot and be a lot stronger when it's necessary. Then you can build whatever the proper dps item ought to be.
On June 05 2015 10:03 Velocirapture wrote:
For a very long time (since they changed them) using scaling CDR/scaling AP blues has been the high risk/high reward choice for AP mid laners.
On June 05 2015 10:01 IMoperator wrote:
what's with the new trend of people taking no mr on their AP rune pages now? ive seen a bunch of streamers do it lately, are they all just copying faker or something?
what's with the new trend of people taking no mr on their AP rune pages now? ive seen a bunch of streamers do it lately, are they all just copying faker or something?
For a very long time (since they changed them) using scaling CDR/scaling AP blues has been the high risk/high reward choice for AP mid laners.
More specifically the CDR or AP let's you hit essential wave clear timings faster which lets you accelerate your items regardless of what the other guy is doing even if your behind.
Double lifesteal is perfectly legit on adcs where you can extend teamfights for a long time. Most of the time though you dont want to sacrifice the huge 2 item spike that is IE + PD/SS.
But on like a vayne? Going double lifesteal for more survivability can be favorable against certain comps. I wouldn't do it if I was ahead, but where defense is necessary and qss doesn't help i sometimes will get bt and botrk. Sure I don't three shot squishies, but I can extend fights for so long that sometimes it ends up worth it.
In general though crit is king on ads. A single crit on a priority target can completely swing a game in your favor
I was under the impression he was talking about 5 offensive items, not rushing double life steal. Like going ie pd lw bt bortk instead of a defensive item.
In other news, the chinese server apparently hasn't discovered ap kog is a viable pick. I feel like I should be abusing this in solo queue, but mid lane is probably my worst role, and laning against solo queue leblanc, annie, zed, talon, fizz etc...
Considering how dive happy china is, pretty sure picking ap kog is just asking to be dove.
