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On April 30 2015 12:46 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 12:44 Ketara wrote:
How is it not intuitive?
1 - Her attacks apply a debuff that slows
2 - She can't crit
3 - Her attacks do bonus damage to debuffed targets
That's pretty easy to understand.
In fact, it's basically Gangplanks passive + can't crit. it's not as simple as "does not crit", it removes a key component in what all champions do based on their auto, and is replaced by another crit scaling mechanism.
No, it really is that simple.
It has complicated numbers. It's okay for numbers to be complicated. The players who care about numbers will do said numbers and figure them out, and the players who don't care about numbers will wait until the players who do care figure it out and then copy them. None of that figuring will happen inside of an actual game, so it's not detracting from gameplay whatsoever and can safely be complicated.
It's also not the first champion in the game with mechanics that fuck with crit.
The first one was probably pre rework Ashe (ha!)
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On April 30 2015 12:50 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 12:46 wei2coolman wrote:On April 30 2015 12:44 Ketara wrote:
How is it not intuitive?
1 - Her attacks apply a debuff that slows
2 - She can't crit
3 - Her attacks do bonus damage to debuffed targets
That's pretty easy to understand.
In fact, it's basically Gangplanks passive + can't crit. it's not as simple as "does not crit", it removes a key component in what all champions do based on their auto, and is replaced by another crit scaling mechanism. No, it really is that simple. It has complicated numbers. It's okay for numbers to be complicated. The players who care about numbers will do said numbers and figure them out, and the players who don't care about numbers will wait until the players who do care figure it out and then copy them. None of that figuring will happen inside of an actual game, so it's not detracting from gameplay whatsoever and can safely be complicated.
that's partially why i'm okay with it, but it does start moving in the stupid tower mechanics design we currently have.
I bet you could ask every single player in d1+ about how do towers work explicitly, and no one would get it right, because there's like 10 different things going on regarding the towers.
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On April 30 2015 12:50 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 12:46 wei2coolman wrote:On April 30 2015 12:44 Ketara wrote:
How is it not intuitive?
1 - Her attacks apply a debuff that slows
2 - She can't crit
3 - Her attacks do bonus damage to debuffed targets
That's pretty easy to understand.
In fact, it's basically Gangplanks passive + can't crit. it's not as simple as "does not crit", it removes a key component in what all champions do based on their auto, and is replaced by another crit scaling mechanism. No, it really is that simple. It has complicated numbers. It's okay for numbers to be complicated. The players who care about numbers will do said numbers and figure them out, and the players who don't care about numbers will wait until the players who do care figure it out and then copy them. None of that figuring will happen inside of an actual game, so it's not detracting from gameplay whatsoever and can safely be complicated.It's also not the first champion in the game with mechanics that fuck with crit. The first one was probably pre rework Ashe (ha!)
This right here is one of my pet peeves with the League community. I used to see thread after thread on reddit about people wanting adaptive tooltips. Shit like clear #s for Mundos passive and ult, which they just put in. Like, when is that information really relevant in an in game scenario? When does knowing if 60% of your health behind 2220 or 2225 have any applicable use in game?
On April 30 2015 12:53 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 12:50 Ketara wrote:On April 30 2015 12:46 wei2coolman wrote:On April 30 2015 12:44 Ketara wrote:
How is it not intuitive?
1 - Her attacks apply a debuff that slows
2 - She can't crit
3 - Her attacks do bonus damage to debuffed targets
That's pretty easy to understand.
In fact, it's basically Gangplanks passive + can't crit. it's not as simple as "does not crit", it removes a key component in what all champions do based on their auto, and is replaced by another crit scaling mechanism. No, it really is that simple. It has complicated numbers. It's okay for numbers to be complicated. The players who care about numbers will do said numbers and figure them out, and the players who don't care about numbers will wait until the players who do care figure it out and then copy them. None of that figuring will happen inside of an actual game, so it's not detracting from gameplay whatsoever and can safely be complicated. that's partially why i'm okay with it, but it does start moving in the stupid tower mechanics design we currently have. I bet you could ask every single player in d1+ about how do towers work explicitly, and no one would get it right, because there's like 10 different things going on regarding the towers.
People are also really bad at grasping the game in general. There is blatant info in front of their faces with towers' items literally giving you most, if not all, of their nuance but I wouldn't be surprised if most people don't know towers even have these "items."
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On April 30 2015 12:36 chalice wrote:
on Miss Fortune an Essence Reaver + Black Cleaver cheap two item timing for grouping with your team once you have your level 11 ult seems decent.
she's obviously great at applying BC stacks while an early ~40% cdr puts a maxed Q at like a 2s cooldown and your ult is up for every teamfight. having only 3s of downtime in between E slows is also helpful since it's basically the only kiting tool you have.
the only other ADC i can see it not sucking on is Lucian because of how much he benefits from the CDR and his double-tap passive and the Culling probably do a good job of applying stacks.
lol, why would you buy essence reaver on MF? That two item timing would deal basically no damage compared to a normal build , so I hope you have some serious AD mid and top or that armor shred is worthless.
Plus a two item timing for percent armor shred is pretty weak, there wont be enough armor for it to make much of a difference. Lategame you just totally gimped yourself because you have no multiplicative scaling and turned your ADC into some kind of awful bruiser.
and cheap? 3200g and 3000gold is cheap?
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Honestly, if anything the way this new Ashe crit works is more or less the way crit should work for everyone.
I'd be happy to dip into some koolaid theory that this is Riot trying to test something that they may later do for everyone.
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I like the new black cleaver changes for tank item depth
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On April 30 2015 13:14 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 12:36 chalice wrote:
on Miss Fortune an Essence Reaver + Black Cleaver cheap two item timing for grouping with your team once you have your level 11 ult seems decent.
she's obviously great at applying BC stacks while an early ~40% cdr puts a maxed Q at like a 2s cooldown and your ult is up for every teamfight. having only 3s of downtime in between E slows is also helpful since it's basically the only kiting tool you have.
the only other ADC i can see it not sucking on is Lucian because of how much he benefits from the CDR and his double-tap passive and the Culling probably do a good job of applying stacks. lol, why would you buy essence reaver on MF? That two item timing would deal basically no damage compared to a normal build , so I hope you have some serious AD mid and top or that armor shred is worthless. Plus a two item timing for percent armor shred is pretty weak, there wont be enough armor for it to make much of a difference. Lategame you just totally gimped yourself because you have no multiplicative scaling and turned your ADC into some kind of awful bruiser. and cheap? 3200g and 3000gold is cheap?
i got the idea for rushing Essence Reaver from some guy who is diamond on the Korean server and only plays Miss Fortune (www.op.gg) and it felt pretty nice when i tried it. she can definitely use the mana regen and it's the least expensive 80ad item.
i guess technically 6200g isn't particularly cheap, but with the 10% lifesteal, mana regen, 30% CDR, phage passive, and 400hp; i think you get a lot of cost-efficient midgame utility to go with 120ad and the armor shred to bring some punch to your ultimates. obviously buying a Black Cleaver when there aren't any other significant AD damage sources on your team isn't a good idea.
i'm not sure why you think filling two item slots with AD, sustain, and percent armor reduction precludes you from itemizing for crit later on.
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On April 30 2015 00:57 Gahlo wrote:Riot has made statements in the past that they don't ninja nerf/buff anything, so I doubt it's intended.
I just had a game where Blitzkrank grabs passed through Morgana's shield. Unless it is some kind of bug it seems like we have some major ninja nerf.
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On April 30 2015 14:37 Embir wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 00:57 Gahlo wrote:Riot has made statements in the past that they don't ninja nerf/buff anything, so I doubt it's intended. I just had a game where Blitzkrank grabs passed through Morgana's shield. Unless it is some kind of bug it seems like we have some major ninja nerf.
Apparently Riot's already come out and said that it isn't intended and will be fixed.
Time to crumple the tinfoil hats.
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I think it's pretty obvious that Riot's moving in a direction to remove crit. Along with Ashe's passive you have Kalista's rend mechanic and build path usually avoiding crit. Then you have Tristana who's a complete disaster of a champ but follows a rather similar "auto a target with E more to build up more damage" mechanic.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 30 2015 15:39 Sonnington wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that Riot's moving in a direction to remove crit. Along with Ashe's passive you have Kalista's rend mechanic and build path usually avoiding crit. Then you have Tristana who's a complete disaster of a champ but follows a rather similar "auto a target with E more to build up more damage" mechanic.
The hell is that Tristana circlejerk.
Clearly, you preferred previous Tristana, where whole gameplay was 'survive fourty minutes without losing too much and auto-win'.
But no, once she finally requires some skill and brains to play, she's 'disaster of a champ'.
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On April 30 2015 15:53 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 15:39 Sonnington wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that Riot's moving in a direction to remove crit. Along with Ashe's passive you have Kalista's rend mechanic and build path usually avoiding crit. Then you have Tristana who's a complete disaster of a champ but follows a rather similar "auto a target with E more to build up more damage" mechanic. The hell is that Tristana circlejerk. Clearly, you preferred previous Tristana, where whole gameplay was 'survive fourty minutes without losing too much and auto-win'. But no, once she finally requires some skill and brains to play, she's 'disaster of a champ'.
What? She's no harder to play than before, just with a more standardized power curve.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On April 30 2015 15:56 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 15:53 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On April 30 2015 15:39 Sonnington wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that Riot's moving in a direction to remove crit. Along with Ashe's passive you have Kalista's rend mechanic and build path usually avoiding crit. Then you have Tristana who's a complete disaster of a champ but follows a rather similar "auto a target with E more to build up more damage" mechanic. The hell is that Tristana circlejerk. Clearly, you preferred previous Tristana, where whole gameplay was 'survive fourty minutes without losing too much and auto-win'. But no, once she finally requires some skill and brains to play, she's 'disaster of a champ'. What? She's no harder to play than before, just with a more standardized power curve.
She actually requires hitting people in first ten minutes now and not watching them die.
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Did poro toss do true damage? Because dash/mark feels kind of dumb to me, but I never played when they had poro toss was around so I don't know how it compares.
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On April 30 2015 16:10 zer0das wrote:
Did poro toss do true damage? Because dash/mark feels kind of dumb to me, but I never played when they had poro toss was around so I don't know how it compares.
yeah it did
the damage is pretty insignificant
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On April 30 2015 16:09 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 15:56 cLutZ wrote:On April 30 2015 15:53 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On April 30 2015 15:39 Sonnington wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that Riot's moving in a direction to remove crit. Along with Ashe's passive you have Kalista's rend mechanic and build path usually avoiding crit. Then you have Tristana who's a complete disaster of a champ but follows a rather similar "auto a target with E more to build up more damage" mechanic. The hell is that Tristana circlejerk. Clearly, you preferred previous Tristana, where whole gameplay was 'survive fourty minutes without losing too much and auto-win'. But no, once she finally requires some skill and brains to play, she's 'disaster of a champ'. What? She's no harder to play than before, just with a more standardized power curve. She actually requires hitting people in first ten minutes now and not watching them die.
That makes...no sense?
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I wouldn't really call 200 true damage on a 20 second cooldown at level 18 insignificant. Compared to dashing 2 screens maybe...
Ryze feels awful now. If anyone is in your face you can't hit priority targets with q. The shield on his passive feels really out of place, it is almost never up when it would matter. His cooldowns are incredibly long without the old passive and the supercharging feels forced. E's damage on bounces is miniscule (this one is big- a fully farmed Ryze could do so much AOE damage with his E, now its just meh).
Also all of his animations feel like garbage. Probably one of the worst reworks I've played. His old kit had a clear design, the new one is all over the damn place. They're probably going to reduce the number of stacks required to supercharge him, because its way too difficult to make much use of it as is.
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On April 30 2015 13:42 Ketara wrote:
Honestly, if anything the way this new Ashe crit works is more or less the way crit should work for everyone.
I'd be happy to dip into some koolaid theory that this is Riot trying to test something that they may later do for everyone.
It's like people don't read posts.
3rd time in the thread, some red posted one or two weeks ago about how they don't want to remove crits because despite the RNG effect they like the visceral feeling of these big numbers with different animations and font, etc. and they like the idea of fishing for crits in lane or during poke to try and capitalise on, along with the you-never-know chance that the enemy with Zerks, IE and Zeal doesn't crit once while you, behind, crit thrice in a row with only IE and win the fight, letting you catch up a bit.
On April 30 2015 15:53 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 15:39 Sonnington wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that Riot's moving in a direction to remove crit. Along with Ashe's passive you have Kalista's rend mechanic and build path usually avoiding crit. Then you have Tristana who's a complete disaster of a champ but follows a rather similar "auto a target with E more to build up more damage" mechanic. The hell is that Tristana circlejerk. Clearly, you preferred previous Tristana, where whole gameplay was 'survive fourty minutes without losing too much and auto-win'. But no, once she finally requires some skill and brains to play, she's 'disaster of a champ'.
She's super clunky, the casting animation on E also means you have to get closer than you'd want to, to cast it and start autoing instead of running after the guy if he's moving away from you. I already wasn't too much a fan of old Trist because of her lack of reach till later levels, but now it feels like unless the enemy team wants to initiate on mine and we have a frontline they can't pass I can't really use my E.
On April 30 2015 16:09 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 15:56 cLutZ wrote:On April 30 2015 15:53 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On April 30 2015 15:39 Sonnington wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that Riot's moving in a direction to remove crit. Along with Ashe's passive you have Kalista's rend mechanic and build path usually avoiding crit. Then you have Tristana who's a complete disaster of a champ but follows a rather similar "auto a target with E more to build up more damage" mechanic. The hell is that Tristana circlejerk. Clearly, you preferred previous Tristana, where whole gameplay was 'survive fourty minutes without losing too much and auto-win'. But no, once she finally requires some skill and brains to play, she's 'disaster of a champ'. What? She's no harder to play than before, just with a more standardized power curve. She actually requires hitting people in first ten minutes now and not watching them die.
Sure, the level 2 and 6 power spikes didn't exist for old Trist. She wasn't one of the most dangerous champions for an early all-in (but Alistar isn't too popular now).
She can still hit people now, and she's actually stronger in her good cases if she actually commits to an all-in with E and W. Thing is she has to all-in to trade now, pretty much not doing anything otherwise.
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On April 30 2015 17:38 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 13:42 Ketara wrote:
Honestly, if anything the way this new Ashe crit works is more or less the way crit should work for everyone.
I'd be happy to dip into some koolaid theory that this is Riot trying to test something that they may later do for everyone. It's like people don't read posts. 3rd time in the thread, some red posted one or two weeks ago about how they don't want to remove crits because despite the RNG effect they like the visceral feeling of these big numbers with different animations and font, etc. and they like the idea of fishing for crits in lane or during poke to try and capitalise on, along with the you-never-know chance that the enemy with Zerks, IE and Zeal doesn't crit once while you, behind, crit thrice in a row with only IE and win the fight, letting you catch up a bit.
Damn they are even stupider than I thought.You know what is fun in a competetive game?Completely random factors that you can't control  .Next time when zed crits me 2 times with his ghostblade after I qss his ult I should be happy and not annoyed.
Never liked trist a very stupid champion and now she just feels meh compared to any of the good ads.
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On April 30 2015 15:53 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 15:39 Sonnington wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that Riot's moving in a direction to remove crit. Along with Ashe's passive you have Kalista's rend mechanic and build path usually avoiding crit. Then you have Tristana who's a complete disaster of a champ but follows a rather similar "auto a target with E more to build up more damage" mechanic. The hell is that Tristana circlejerk. Clearly, you preferred previous Tristana, where whole gameplay was 'survive fourty minutes without losing too much and auto-win'. But no, once she finally requires some skill and brains to play, she's 'disaster of a champ'.
Tristana has problems. I find her very clunky to use since she has much lower AS. Because of this it's harder to CS and kite properly. In that clunktactular cast time of her E, most enemy ADCs can just throw burst at her and walk away without letting her stack against them with her autos. Her E does low base damage and actually low stack damage unless she has bonus AD which means it's easy for her to lose trades. So she's basically shit early, mediocre/good mid, and mediocre/shit late.
In any event, her E mechanic is similar to Rend and Ashe's new passive. Focus AA an enemy to stack much more damages.
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EPT
