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Starting mana crystal on ryze is pretty terrible, his ratio's are not that great, especially early game.
200mana is 5 damage on Q.
Dorans 15ap is 8.25, plus 60hp, and the mana regen. Dorans will regen 200 mana in like 3 minutes unless you literally cannot cs.
given that his early game is so fucking bad already, I would say its better to go the dorans. Then grab the catalyst first back.
Ryzes mana ratios in general are not that great, its more of a side bonus than a primary scaling.
For example, a fully charged tear only adds 30 damage to his max rank Q (his best practical mana scaling). That 30 damage is equivalent to 55AP, which only costs like 1100 gold. Tear costs 720 and takes a long long time to stack.
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On April 29 2015 11:21 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 09:58 OhTwoMise wrote:
These Ashe changes make me very sad. I've always felt she was one of the better champions in the game in terms of design. She's got a ton of legacy design features that are slowly being phased out of the game, so I supposed I shouldn't be too optimistic, particularly given Tristana just followed a pretty similar trajectory and wound up in a much less interesting place if not an outright worse one.
What's even more baffling to me is that she seems to be doing very well in terms of pick- and winrate at all levels below pro. And I can't imagine this update solves any of her problems on the pro scene, which as far as I can tell are primarily related to Crucible. But what aspects of her kit actually got removed? Her old passive which was completely nonexistant past lvl 1 brush cheese. She now has the slow permanently. Volley is a bit different but has basically the same functionality. E vision is still there. R is identical. So the only "legacy feature" that she lost was the gold generation....which was 600 gold at 200cs...basically a completely worthless noob trap.
You're conflating power level and good design. They aren't necessarily related. I think the changes are probably going to wind up being a net gain or neutral for most Ashe players, the exception being those that are heavily volley-centric (which I am). But that's not what my complaint is about. They're systematically designing balance tools out of their game. The easiest and most-often talked about example is mana costs, which this re-work has in spades. They're also making Hawkshot a true one-point-wonder, which it wasn't before. This is a kind of small change since it was so close, but I'd still call it bad design.
The crit mechanic is unnecessarily complicated. I don't have a problem with complexity in general, but only if it has meaning. There are a lot of places where added complexity opens up new design space or changes balance. But it's just obfuscation here. The only reason I can see for a change like this is to reduce the variance of crit, except Riot's already stated that they're okay with that variance because players find the big numbers viscerally satisfying. So again, I'd call this bad design, although I don't think it's as bad as the mana or Volley changes because it doesn't really have an impact on the game. It's just needless and silly.
Volley is the big one, though. First, I think you're underselling the Volley nerf by a LOT. Volley is everything to Ashe. Waveclear, poke, DPS, disengage, teamfight control. And it's getting substantially worse at all of those things. The ideal scenario is the same. The problem is that the strength of Volley is the combination of its versatility and its reliability. Ideal case Volleys will be unchanged, but that's not why Volley was strong. Ideal case Volley actually looks pretty crappy compared to the ideal case for almost any other nuke. What makes Volley so strong is that you can reliably get very good value out of it.
Volley exists in basically unique design space right now. I can't think of any other long-range, reliable, low cooldown AoE damage in League. Which is probably why they're nerfing it. But Volley is pretty much the dream on a design level right now. It manages to occupy a powerful and unique niche without being overpowered. Without even being oppressive in the majority of cases. And they're looking not just to change the way Ashe functions with this change, but to remove that niche from the game entirely. And in a game like League with as many interactions as it has, removing any niche from the game entirely is removing a future balance tool.
So my grievance here isn't that I think the new Ashe will necessarily be less powerful. It's that I think they're both taking good design and making it worse and reducing the number of options and playstyles in the game in general. This isn't unique to the Ashe rework specifically, but I think it's by far the least justifiable instance. Regardless of my feelings on, say, Nidalee or Karma, I can see why Riot would feel that change was necessary, but by pretty much any meaningful metric, Ashe is in a good place right now.
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On April 30 2015 08:55 sob3k wrote:
Starting mana crystal on ryze is pretty terrible, his ratio's are not that great, especially early game.
200mana is 5 damage on Q.
Dorans 15ap is 8.25, plus 60hp, and the mana regen. Dorans will regen 200 mana in like 3 minutes unless you literally cannot cs.
given that his early game is so fucking bad already, I would say its better to go the dorans. Then grab the catalyst first back.
Ryzes mana ratios in general are not that great, its more of a side bonus than a primary scaling.
For example, a fully charged tear only adds 30 damage to his max rank Q (his best practical mana scaling). That 30 damage is equivalent to 55AP, which only costs like 1100 gold. Tear costs 720 and takes a long long time to stack.
What do you think about flask start? is he mana hungry enough to need it early on?
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On April 30 2015 06:59 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 06:21 Kinie wrote:On April 30 2015 06:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On April 30 2015 05:55 wei2coolman wrote:On April 30 2015 05:49 nafta wrote:
Why do you need tenacity on blue ez??? Random cc landing, more or less a riskier version of why people get qss on blue ez, except now you get some more apen with bc. I'm not saying this is the 'new' blue build, I'm just suggesting where people could insert it into the build and why they might want to. Can we just agree on "black cleaver is shit on all adcs" and move on, lol. Instead of theorycrafting about bloody blue Ezreal who is useless in 99% of situations. It MIGHT be good on Varus, but that's probably the only ADC that would benefit from it (assuming you go Legolas Varus and just look to poke people with max range Qs when you have 400 AD). Well, lol, you can go 40% cdr on Varus even as botlaner and be fine, because noone has idea how to play against Varus in current world and abuse his weaknesses. But even on Varus, considering that BC isn't getting built from brutalizer, it's just waste of money you can spend on possible ie/ghostblade/ludicities and building phage first on Varus just sounds awful.
I don't think you'd build BC on Varus first, like you'd probably build it 3rd or 4th depending upon how things go (assuming you start with Tear > Reaver > Lucidities > Bruta > BC). Maybe I'm wrong with the tear suggestion, but even with Reaver it seems like you run out of mana so fast with Q harass. Though if you take Varus mid it would probably be easier/better because you can take blue buff and just skip tear entirely.
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lol shyv buff, do they even play their own game
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that ez skin looks horrendous. Also they should just make Samsung Rengar a greyish white fur color instead of this ugly as fuck brown.
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On April 30 2015 10:47 krndandaman wrote:
not just the ez skin, all those skins look awful. wtf?
I thought the morde one looked good,
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On April 30 2015 09:01 OhTwoMise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2015 11:21 sob3k wrote:On April 29 2015 09:58 OhTwoMise wrote:
These Ashe changes make me very sad. I've always felt she was one of the better champions in the game in terms of design. She's got a ton of legacy design features that are slowly being phased out of the game, so I supposed I shouldn't be too optimistic, particularly given Tristana just followed a pretty similar trajectory and wound up in a much less interesting place if not an outright worse one.
What's even more baffling to me is that she seems to be doing very well in terms of pick- and winrate at all levels below pro. And I can't imagine this update solves any of her problems on the pro scene, which as far as I can tell are primarily related to Crucible. But what aspects of her kit actually got removed? Her old passive which was completely nonexistant past lvl 1 brush cheese. She now has the slow permanently. Volley is a bit different but has basically the same functionality. E vision is still there. R is identical. So the only "legacy feature" that she lost was the gold generation....which was 600 gold at 200cs...basically a completely worthless noob trap. You're conflating power level and good design. They aren't necessarily related. I think the changes are probably going to wind up being a net gain or neutral for most Ashe players, the exception being those that are heavily volley-centric (which I am). But that's not what my complaint is about. They're systematically designing balance tools out of their game. The easiest and most-often talked about example is mana costs, which this re-work has in spades. They're also making Hawkshot a true one-point-wonder, which it wasn't before. This is a kind of small change since it was so close, but I'd still call it bad design. The crit mechanic is unnecessarily complicated. I don't have a problem with complexity in general, but only if it has meaning. There are a lot of places where added complexity opens up new design space or changes balance. But it's just obfuscation here. The only reason I can see for a change like this is to reduce the variance of crit, except Riot's already stated that they're okay with that variance because players find the big numbers viscerally satisfying. So again, I'd call this bad design, although I don't think it's as bad as the mana or Volley changes because it doesn't really have an impact on the game. It's just needless and silly. Volley is the big one, though. First, I think you're underselling the Volley nerf by a LOT. Volley is everything to Ashe. Waveclear, poke, DPS, disengage, teamfight control. And it's getting substantially worse at all of those things. The ideal scenario is the same. The problem is that the strength of Volley is the combination of its versatility and its reliability. Ideal case Volleys will be unchanged, but that's not why Volley was strong. Ideal case Volley actually looks pretty crappy compared to the ideal case for almost any other nuke. What makes Volley so strong is that you can reliably get very good value out of it. Volley exists in basically unique design space right now. I can't think of any other long-range, reliable, low cooldown AoE damage in League. Which is probably why they're nerfing it. But Volley is pretty much the dream on a design level right now. It manages to occupy a powerful and unique niche without being overpowered. Without even being oppressive in the majority of cases. And they're looking not just to change the way Ashe functions with this change, but to remove that niche from the game entirely. And in a game like League with as many interactions as it has, removing any niche from the game entirely is removing a future balance tool. So my grievance here isn't that I think the new Ashe will necessarily be less powerful. It's that I think they're both taking good design and making it worse and reducing the number of options and playstyles in the game in general. This isn't unique to the Ashe rework specifically, but I think it's by far the least justifiable instance. Regardless of my feelings on, say, Nidalee or Karma, I can see why Riot would feel that change was necessary, but by pretty much any meaningful metric, Ashe is in a good place right now.
I don't think I agree with a single thing in this post.
There's a lot to talk about, and I don't want to talk about it, but I would like to question why you think that Ashe's old passive was good design, and why the new passive is worse.
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On April 30 2015 11:05 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 09:01 OhTwoMise wrote:On April 29 2015 11:21 sob3k wrote:On April 29 2015 09:58 OhTwoMise wrote:
These Ashe changes make me very sad. I've always felt she was one of the better champions in the game in terms of design. She's got a ton of legacy design features that are slowly being phased out of the game, so I supposed I shouldn't be too optimistic, particularly given Tristana just followed a pretty similar trajectory and wound up in a much less interesting place if not an outright worse one.
What's even more baffling to me is that she seems to be doing very well in terms of pick- and winrate at all levels below pro. And I can't imagine this update solves any of her problems on the pro scene, which as far as I can tell are primarily related to Crucible. But what aspects of her kit actually got removed? Her old passive which was completely nonexistant past lvl 1 brush cheese. She now has the slow permanently. Volley is a bit different but has basically the same functionality. E vision is still there. R is identical. So the only "legacy feature" that she lost was the gold generation....which was 600 gold at 200cs...basically a completely worthless noob trap. You're conflating power level and good design. They aren't necessarily related. I think the changes are probably going to wind up being a net gain or neutral for most Ashe players, the exception being those that are heavily volley-centric (which I am). But that's not what my complaint is about. They're systematically designing balance tools out of their game. The easiest and most-often talked about example is mana costs, which this re-work has in spades. They're also making Hawkshot a true one-point-wonder, which it wasn't before. This is a kind of small change since it was so close, but I'd still call it bad design. The crit mechanic is unnecessarily complicated. I don't have a problem with complexity in general, but only if it has meaning. There are a lot of places where added complexity opens up new design space or changes balance. But it's just obfuscation here. The only reason I can see for a change like this is to reduce the variance of crit, except Riot's already stated that they're okay with that variance because players find the big numbers viscerally satisfying. So again, I'd call this bad design, although I don't think it's as bad as the mana or Volley changes because it doesn't really have an impact on the game. It's just needless and silly. Volley is the big one, though. First, I think you're underselling the Volley nerf by a LOT. Volley is everything to Ashe. Waveclear, poke, DPS, disengage, teamfight control. And it's getting substantially worse at all of those things. The ideal scenario is the same. The problem is that the strength of Volley is the combination of its versatility and its reliability. Ideal case Volleys will be unchanged, but that's not why Volley was strong. Ideal case Volley actually looks pretty crappy compared to the ideal case for almost any other nuke. What makes Volley so strong is that you can reliably get very good value out of it. Volley exists in basically unique design space right now. I can't think of any other long-range, reliable, low cooldown AoE damage in League. Which is probably why they're nerfing it. But Volley is pretty much the dream on a design level right now. It manages to occupy a powerful and unique niche without being overpowered. Without even being oppressive in the majority of cases. And they're looking not just to change the way Ashe functions with this change, but to remove that niche from the game entirely. And in a game like League with as many interactions as it has, removing any niche from the game entirely is removing a future balance tool. So my grievance here isn't that I think the new Ashe will necessarily be less powerful. It's that I think they're both taking good design and making it worse and reducing the number of options and playstyles in the game in general. This isn't unique to the Ashe rework specifically, but I think it's by far the least justifiable instance. Regardless of my feelings on, say, Nidalee or Karma, I can see why Riot would feel that change was necessary, but by pretty much any meaningful metric, Ashe is in a good place right now. I don't think I agree with a single thing in this post. There's a lot to talk about, and I don't want to talk about it, but I would like to question why you think that Ashe's old passive was good design, and why the new passive is worse.
The new passive is sort of convoluted. I mean at the lower levels it essentially reads "ashe slows people, and does bonus damage to slowed folks".
but the calculations to determine bonus damage is hard to calculate, for example doing the math to see at what AD and what crit strike does this passive pass the DPS level vs traditional crit damage calculation is pretty convoluted.
meanwhile having a stacking passive for crit is easier to understand at a very fundamental level based on what player is already used to (200% AD if crits, 250% ad if you have ie).
that being said, I don't actually hold these views in regards to the Ashe passive being redone, but I could see why ohtwomise would think so.
edit: while i don't think it changes her playstyle, you'll still be looking to initiate with ulti, while kiting back with volley and auto attacks. It does change how backloaded her damage is compared to her old kit.
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On April 30 2015 11:05 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 09:01 OhTwoMise wrote:On April 29 2015 11:21 sob3k wrote:On April 29 2015 09:58 OhTwoMise wrote:
These Ashe changes make me very sad. I've always felt she was one of the better champions in the game in terms of design. She's got a ton of legacy design features that are slowly being phased out of the game, so I supposed I shouldn't be too optimistic, particularly given Tristana just followed a pretty similar trajectory and wound up in a much less interesting place if not an outright worse one.
What's even more baffling to me is that she seems to be doing very well in terms of pick- and winrate at all levels below pro. And I can't imagine this update solves any of her problems on the pro scene, which as far as I can tell are primarily related to Crucible. But what aspects of her kit actually got removed? Her old passive which was completely nonexistant past lvl 1 brush cheese. She now has the slow permanently. Volley is a bit different but has basically the same functionality. E vision is still there. R is identical. So the only "legacy feature" that she lost was the gold generation....which was 600 gold at 200cs...basically a completely worthless noob trap. You're conflating power level and good design. They aren't necessarily related. I think the changes are probably going to wind up being a net gain or neutral for most Ashe players, the exception being those that are heavily volley-centric (which I am). But that's not what my complaint is about. They're systematically designing balance tools out of their game. The easiest and most-often talked about example is mana costs, which this re-work has in spades. They're also making Hawkshot a true one-point-wonder, which it wasn't before. This is a kind of small change since it was so close, but I'd still call it bad design. The crit mechanic is unnecessarily complicated. I don't have a problem with complexity in general, but only if it has meaning. There are a lot of places where added complexity opens up new design space or changes balance. But it's just obfuscation here. The only reason I can see for a change like this is to reduce the variance of crit, except Riot's already stated that they're okay with that variance because players find the big numbers viscerally satisfying. So again, I'd call this bad design, although I don't think it's as bad as the mana or Volley changes because it doesn't really have an impact on the game. It's just needless and silly. Volley is the big one, though. First, I think you're underselling the Volley nerf by a LOT. Volley is everything to Ashe. Waveclear, poke, DPS, disengage, teamfight control. And it's getting substantially worse at all of those things. The ideal scenario is the same. The problem is that the strength of Volley is the combination of its versatility and its reliability. Ideal case Volleys will be unchanged, but that's not why Volley was strong. Ideal case Volley actually looks pretty crappy compared to the ideal case for almost any other nuke. What makes Volley so strong is that you can reliably get very good value out of it. Volley exists in basically unique design space right now. I can't think of any other long-range, reliable, low cooldown AoE damage in League. Which is probably why they're nerfing it. But Volley is pretty much the dream on a design level right now. It manages to occupy a powerful and unique niche without being overpowered. Without even being oppressive in the majority of cases. And they're looking not just to change the way Ashe functions with this change, but to remove that niche from the game entirely. And in a game like League with as many interactions as it has, removing any niche from the game entirely is removing a future balance tool. So my grievance here isn't that I think the new Ashe will necessarily be less powerful. It's that I think they're both taking good design and making it worse and reducing the number of options and playstyles in the game in general. This isn't unique to the Ashe rework specifically, but I think it's by far the least justifiable instance. Regardless of my feelings on, say, Nidalee or Karma, I can see why Riot would feel that change was necessary, but by pretty much any meaningful metric, Ashe is in a good place right now. I don't think I agree with a single thing in this post. There's a lot to talk about, and I don't want to talk about it, but I would like to question why you think that Ashe's old passive was good design, and why the new passive is worse.
I like the new passive, so obviously Q would need to be changed, but I do agree with his points on Volley, which right now is the perfect skill for the champion she should be. IMO if they just changed here Q + passive to the new ones this would be a great rework. The hawkshot change is too much like Kalista ghosts to me, which I hate Kalista ghosts as a mechanic.
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Sometimes I wonder how we ever got through lane when rank 1 Volley was a 20 second cooldown.
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I don't see how they're fundamentally changing Volley?
They're just buffing it.
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On April 30 2015 12:02 Ketara wrote:
I don't see how they're fundamentally changing Volley?
They're just buffing it.
supposedly it's easier to hide behind minions from volley, less likely for arrows to sneak in between minions and champions.
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Okay.
And they're also giving it a lower cooldown, longer range, and more arrows for less mana.
It's a buff.
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Friend of mine that's played new Ashe says while it is harder, it anywhere near as difficult as they make it sound.
On April 30 2015 12:05 Ketara wrote:
Okay.
And they're also giving it a lower cooldown, longer range, and more arrows for less mana.
It's a buff.
I think the spread is narrower.
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On April 30 2015 12:05 Ketara wrote:
Okay.
And they're also giving it a lower cooldown, longer range, and more arrows for less mana.
It's a buff.
but if you can't hit anyone with it because of ease of hiding, then it's a nerf...
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On April 30 2015 11:12 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 11:05 Ketara wrote:On April 30 2015 09:01 OhTwoMise wrote:On April 29 2015 11:21 sob3k wrote:On April 29 2015 09:58 OhTwoMise wrote:
These Ashe changes make me very sad. I've always felt she was one of the better champions in the game in terms of design. She's got a ton of legacy design features that are slowly being phased out of the game, so I supposed I shouldn't be too optimistic, particularly given Tristana just followed a pretty similar trajectory and wound up in a much less interesting place if not an outright worse one.
What's even more baffling to me is that she seems to be doing very well in terms of pick- and winrate at all levels below pro. And I can't imagine this update solves any of her problems on the pro scene, which as far as I can tell are primarily related to Crucible. But what aspects of her kit actually got removed? Her old passive which was completely nonexistant past lvl 1 brush cheese. She now has the slow permanently. Volley is a bit different but has basically the same functionality. E vision is still there. R is identical. So the only "legacy feature" that she lost was the gold generation....which was 600 gold at 200cs...basically a completely worthless noob trap. You're conflating power level and good design. They aren't necessarily related. I think the changes are probably going to wind up being a net gain or neutral for most Ashe players, the exception being those that are heavily volley-centric (which I am). But that's not what my complaint is about. They're systematically designing balance tools out of their game. The easiest and most-often talked about example is mana costs, which this re-work has in spades. They're also making Hawkshot a true one-point-wonder, which it wasn't before. This is a kind of small change since it was so close, but I'd still call it bad design. The crit mechanic is unnecessarily complicated. I don't have a problem with complexity in general, but only if it has meaning. There are a lot of places where added complexity opens up new design space or changes balance. But it's just obfuscation here. The only reason I can see for a change like this is to reduce the variance of crit, except Riot's already stated that they're okay with that variance because players find the big numbers viscerally satisfying. So again, I'd call this bad design, although I don't think it's as bad as the mana or Volley changes because it doesn't really have an impact on the game. It's just needless and silly. Volley is the big one, though. First, I think you're underselling the Volley nerf by a LOT. Volley is everything to Ashe. Waveclear, poke, DPS, disengage, teamfight control. And it's getting substantially worse at all of those things. The ideal scenario is the same. The problem is that the strength of Volley is the combination of its versatility and its reliability. Ideal case Volleys will be unchanged, but that's not why Volley was strong. Ideal case Volley actually looks pretty crappy compared to the ideal case for almost any other nuke. What makes Volley so strong is that you can reliably get very good value out of it. Volley exists in basically unique design space right now. I can't think of any other long-range, reliable, low cooldown AoE damage in League. Which is probably why they're nerfing it. But Volley is pretty much the dream on a design level right now. It manages to occupy a powerful and unique niche without being overpowered. Without even being oppressive in the majority of cases. And they're looking not just to change the way Ashe functions with this change, but to remove that niche from the game entirely. And in a game like League with as many interactions as it has, removing any niche from the game entirely is removing a future balance tool. So my grievance here isn't that I think the new Ashe will necessarily be less powerful. It's that I think they're both taking good design and making it worse and reducing the number of options and playstyles in the game in general. This isn't unique to the Ashe rework specifically, but I think it's by far the least justifiable instance. Regardless of my feelings on, say, Nidalee or Karma, I can see why Riot would feel that change was necessary, but by pretty much any meaningful metric, Ashe is in a good place right now. I don't think I agree with a single thing in this post. There's a lot to talk about, and I don't want to talk about it, but I would like to question why you think that Ashe's old passive was good design, and why the new passive is worse. The new passive is sort of convoluted. I mean at the lower levels it essentially reads "ashe slows people, and does bonus damage to slowed folks". but the calculations to determine bonus damage is hard to calculate, for example doing the math to see at what AD and what crit strike does this passive pass the DPS level vs traditional crit damage calculation is pretty convoluted. meanwhile having a stacking passive for crit is easier to understand at a very fundamental level based on what player is already used to (200% AD if crits, 250% ad if you have ie). that being said, I don't actually hold these views in regards to the Ashe passive being redone, but I could see why ohtwomise would think so. edit: while i don't think it changes her playstyle, you'll still be looking to initiate with ulti, while kiting back with volley and auto attacks. It does change how backloaded her damage is compared to her old kit.
It's not. If the target is slowed, Ashe does an extra 0.1 AD damage per autoattack vs a traditional ADC on average.
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On April 30 2015 12:11 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 11:12 wei2coolman wrote:On April 30 2015 11:05 Ketara wrote:On April 30 2015 09:01 OhTwoMise wrote:On April 29 2015 11:21 sob3k wrote:On April 29 2015 09:58 OhTwoMise wrote:
These Ashe changes make me very sad. I've always felt she was one of the better champions in the game in terms of design. She's got a ton of legacy design features that are slowly being phased out of the game, so I supposed I shouldn't be too optimistic, particularly given Tristana just followed a pretty similar trajectory and wound up in a much less interesting place if not an outright worse one.
What's even more baffling to me is that she seems to be doing very well in terms of pick- and winrate at all levels below pro. And I can't imagine this update solves any of her problems on the pro scene, which as far as I can tell are primarily related to Crucible. But what aspects of her kit actually got removed? Her old passive which was completely nonexistant past lvl 1 brush cheese. She now has the slow permanently. Volley is a bit different but has basically the same functionality. E vision is still there. R is identical. So the only "legacy feature" that she lost was the gold generation....which was 600 gold at 200cs...basically a completely worthless noob trap. You're conflating power level and good design. They aren't necessarily related. I think the changes are probably going to wind up being a net gain or neutral for most Ashe players, the exception being those that are heavily volley-centric (which I am). But that's not what my complaint is about. They're systematically designing balance tools out of their game. The easiest and most-often talked about example is mana costs, which this re-work has in spades. They're also making Hawkshot a true one-point-wonder, which it wasn't before. This is a kind of small change since it was so close, but I'd still call it bad design. The crit mechanic is unnecessarily complicated. I don't have a problem with complexity in general, but only if it has meaning. There are a lot of places where added complexity opens up new design space or changes balance. But it's just obfuscation here. The only reason I can see for a change like this is to reduce the variance of crit, except Riot's already stated that they're okay with that variance because players find the big numbers viscerally satisfying. So again, I'd call this bad design, although I don't think it's as bad as the mana or Volley changes because it doesn't really have an impact on the game. It's just needless and silly. Volley is the big one, though. First, I think you're underselling the Volley nerf by a LOT. Volley is everything to Ashe. Waveclear, poke, DPS, disengage, teamfight control. And it's getting substantially worse at all of those things. The ideal scenario is the same. The problem is that the strength of Volley is the combination of its versatility and its reliability. Ideal case Volleys will be unchanged, but that's not why Volley was strong. Ideal case Volley actually looks pretty crappy compared to the ideal case for almost any other nuke. What makes Volley so strong is that you can reliably get very good value out of it. Volley exists in basically unique design space right now. I can't think of any other long-range, reliable, low cooldown AoE damage in League. Which is probably why they're nerfing it. But Volley is pretty much the dream on a design level right now. It manages to occupy a powerful and unique niche without being overpowered. Without even being oppressive in the majority of cases. And they're looking not just to change the way Ashe functions with this change, but to remove that niche from the game entirely. And in a game like League with as many interactions as it has, removing any niche from the game entirely is removing a future balance tool. So my grievance here isn't that I think the new Ashe will necessarily be less powerful. It's that I think they're both taking good design and making it worse and reducing the number of options and playstyles in the game in general. This isn't unique to the Ashe rework specifically, but I think it's by far the least justifiable instance. Regardless of my feelings on, say, Nidalee or Karma, I can see why Riot would feel that change was necessary, but by pretty much any meaningful metric, Ashe is in a good place right now. I don't think I agree with a single thing in this post. There's a lot to talk about, and I don't want to talk about it, but I would like to question why you think that Ashe's old passive was good design, and why the new passive is worse. The new passive is sort of convoluted. I mean at the lower levels it essentially reads "ashe slows people, and does bonus damage to slowed folks". but the calculations to determine bonus damage is hard to calculate, for example doing the math to see at what AD and what crit strike does this passive pass the DPS level vs traditional crit damage calculation is pretty convoluted. meanwhile having a stacking passive for crit is easier to understand at a very fundamental level based on what player is already used to (200% AD if crits, 250% ad if you have ie). that being said, I don't actually hold these views in regards to the Ashe passive being redone, but I could see why ohtwomise would think so. edit: while i don't think it changes her playstyle, you'll still be looking to initiate with ulti, while kiting back with volley and auto attacks. It does change how backloaded her damage is compared to her old kit. It's not. If the target is slowed, Ashe does an extra 0.1 AD damage per autoattack vs a traditional ADC on average.
not if crit is involved.
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EPT
